Episode 177 Transcript

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You're listening to the Fierce Fatty Podcast episode 177, when a loved one hates their fat body, listener questions, I'm your host, Vinny Welsby. This is the Fierce Fatty Podcast, let's do it.

Hello, welcome fatties and fat allies fears fatties. Welcome. Hey, I missed you. Did you miss me? Well, I've been gone longer than you felt maybe gone because I recorded a couple of episodes back to back and then haven't recorded an episode in like a month. So it's weird. I'm like, Oh, my. I need to go talk to my friends. Yeah, so I'm excited to have a chinwag with you today. I was away in Ireland, visiting my family for two weeks. And now I'm back. So isn't it nice being able to I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but coming home from holiday and being happy that you live where you live. Thank you for that for me, like especially Vancouver airport. And Vancouver Airport is so nice. It's got loads of indigenous art and like water features and stuff. And so coming home, it's like, really relaxing and nice. And it's like, Oh, I love where I live. I'm so lucky. Maybe you've not experienced that. And you're like, What are you talking about? Yeah, cuz my son my life going back to normal. Right. I'd rarely go on holidays anyway. But going back to Peterborough would just be like, Oh, or even the UK. I'd be like, oh, yeah, so. And that was just my experience, right? Not everyone doesn't like the UK or pizza or whatever. Anyway, let's talk about kofi. Kofi is where you can support me if you'd like to. And to get back to four episodes of the face ID podcast a month, we need $680 In subscriptions. So July 7, we are at 210 with 32 subscribers. And August 25, which is when I went last look looked a few days ago. So we're at 32 subscribers, and 210. Now we're at 40 through and 300. So we've got an extra 60. In that month, wow. Six weeks, we got an extra $60 In subscriptions and an extra 11 subscribers. So we're doing it we're doing it we're doing it like that. So let's get to 686 80 We can do it, we can do it you want some you want four episodes or phosphatic content a month, like you're used to then go and donate on kofi The link is in the show notes or whatever, somewhere somewhere around where you're listening. I don't know where it is. We'll just put first by E. K O FY into the the Google into the Google and you'll you'll find it probably I don't know. We'll go to Instagram Lincoln bio. I don't know you'll find it somewhere. And if you don't know you'll get free ship. Free shit. Like the size diversity Resource Guide, which is amazing. You know, I did create it. So I'm biased, but it is really fucking good. When I was making an artist like, and it was years in the making, right collecting all these sources. And so you know, you know, places to shop podcasts or listen to books to read. Science, everything amazing TED Talks. So if you want more fat or liberation in your life, why wouldn't you? Then go check it out. You can get that for $5. And you can either do $5 $10 or $20. And obviously the higher value the more benefits you get. So I want to give a shout out to my supporters. Let's have a look. Let's have a little lucky. Okay, so shout out to the CO fire supporters, Leanne. Debbie, Sarah, Monica, Thomas, Irene, Beth, Josie, Vanessa, Lindsey, Laura. Renee, Rachel. Rachel scientist, Emma. Cassie, Kathy Louise, Stephanie. Melanie, fan tough. This is a tongue twister. FAN TAG lifts FAN TAG lifts. Jane Shay Elizabeth. Joe haich W. Jessie, Jenna. Amy, Steph, Linda, Laurie. Kath, Jess. Just K. Pax, Alison, Deb. Hannah, Avi. Avi, Gina Maria Najia. Janine, and Nora, thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you. You rock my world. I can't tell you how happy when I get a little email saying someone's donated. I'm just like, you. You're the best. So yeah, today's episode, I sent an email out and said, What basis have you got? Also I collect like sometimes when people message me on Instagram, my my assistant will forward them to me and then ask them if, if you want to be included on questions for the show. Anyway, so some, some inboxes and some are sent an email and some people replied. So we've got a number of different questions today. And I love them so juicy. You know, it was? Yeah, I just love it when you have these questions about your your life. So let's start we've got Emma, who says hi with two exclamation marks and relax tired. Absolutely love your content. I've learned so much. Thank you, Emma, I have a question for you. My mother is slowly starting to be unwell. Not being able to walk new problems eating quote, unhealthy, her words, not mine. And she insists all the problems on because she is fat. I keep trying to tell her that it's hurt that it's internalized fat phobia to ensue. Being fat is making her unhealthy. And a better motivation than weight loss would be concentrating on feeling good finding enjoyable movement and working on her relationship to food etc. And she keeps not listening. I mean, she listens, but then claims that she knows more about nutrition. She means weight loss because she's tried all over the diets lol and says, I have no idea what it's like to be fat. Fair enough. How would you start educating someone who was fat and claimed it to be the reason for health issues because a bunch of fat phobic doctors told us so. I bet you a lot of people in listening are dealing with something similar. And and this is so so hard. Right? So thank you, Emma for sharing. I think your mum is lucky to know you. And I thought I'd share something that that I see with my one on one clients who are in sometimes the newest stages of fat liberation. When I say new, I mean like probably a couple of years or less in although, you know, could people who are moral, you know, been in fact liberation work for longer could also experience something like that. So, and this was my experience, too. So what happens is in our lives, we discover fat liberation, or anti diet or intuitive eating. And it's amazing, right? It's like, for me it was this Holy fucking shit. What? Why is no one told me this, you know, for me, it was discovering Reagan chest pains, blocked dancers with fat. And I was like, get the fuck outta here immediately done. That's it moving forward, changed my life. You might wonder why it took you so long for you to know this stuff. And you're gobsmacked and excited and maybe scared. And, you know, it's the start of a whole new thing, right? So you engage in fat liberation and anti diet and intuitive eating and your life does get better. And so you want to tell everyone because they are going to be gifted with this magical thing. And they can let go of diets and fat hate etc. And they can feel good, like how you're feeling. All they need is for you to share what you know, or a book or an IG account or a podcast, and there'll be bathed in light and start dancing. Like if you've ever seen Blues Brothers, Jake, in the Blues Brothers movie, he's like, I see the light and he starts dancing. Basically, he sees God or whatever. But you know, this is what I thought, you know, I'd be like, oh, you should read this book. And then people will be like, Oh my god, Vinny. Thank God for you. You've changed my life, you know. But what happens? is almost certainly not like that. And there are many reasons for it. It's not that you're saying the wrong things or recommending the wrong accounts or whatever.

You were in the perfect place to hear about fat liberation and anti diet messaging, right? Perhaps you'd heard it before. And you took no notice or poo pooed it. It's like, certain steps in the puzzle had to be taken for it to be relevant to you. You know, like, Oh, what is that show? I was watching it in Ireland catchphrase, where they have all the puzzle pieces on the board and it's like a, this image and it'll be, it'll be a catchphrase. It's a catchphrase. And then there's puzzle pieces that will be revealed. And eventually, you're like, Oh, it's this but before you that final piece is revealed, you're like, I don't know what that is. And so, you know, there was another final puzzle piece was put into place and you're like, ah, fat liberation, anti diet, intuitive eating. That's what me. So, you know, perhaps you've been on 101 diets and diet 102 pushed you over the edge into looking into something different perhaps you had been in therapy for years and worked out blaming your fat body for how it looked was not working for you. And then you randomly saw a fat liberationist Anti diet message and it clicked, but say you were on diet 97 And someone came to you and said, Oh man, I have you heard of fat liberation. You might say I know more about nutrition than you. And if I just lose weight, I will be healthy. So the third stage is really getting into process profit profit. From I'm gonna break this down. Someone someone's listening, being proselytizing. profs will look tising proselytizing. Thank you. Thank you Google for breaking it down for me proselytizing, the third stage is proselytizing, about fat liberation, and hearing crickets and feeling dejected. Right. So you're excited you tell other people they're not excited, that might be like, go away. Maybe there is people who are excited, but you know, you're hearing critic, crickets are you hearing pushback and you feel dejected, annoyed and and perhaps angry or sad, because you can see the pain that they are in, you can see the path ahead, you know that if they just did what you told them to do? Or read that book or listen to that podcast, they would feel so much better? Why are they so stubborn? Right? And so the fourth stage is, is coming to the realization that people are our own that on their own path. And you can talk about what feels good for you, if they consent to advice. And you can set boundaries about what you want to hear what's acceptable for you to hear, like, you know, if you're someone's talking about how fatness is made them sick or whatever. But you can't actually force someone to do what you want them to do. I know I'm sorry, we can't force people to do what we want them to do. It's so sad. It's their own journey. Right? So you know, perhaps in the future, they'll see you happy intuitive eating, not Hating Your Body and think, hmm, maybe they're onto something, or maybe not. And maybe it's it's, you know, and you know, that can be painful. So sitting in that grief and pain and protecting your own well being is where a lot of people land. So basically, it sucks. It sucks. It's complicated. You know, I feel like I, I feel like, for me, what feels good is just living my life. And if people want to take that as an example of what not to do, or what to do, or what might feel good, then that's great, you know, but I can't force anyone to not be hit, you know, for to be hating themselves. I can't stop them doing that. And, you know, in the beginning, beginning of so I'd be like, say to people like hey, oh, you know, I've got his course and you know, or, you know, why don't you read this book, or, Oh, just you know, thinking, Ah, it's just gonna fall in place for them. But then they're not, they're not at that place. They might not ever be at that place. So. So I had had just have to look after myself, and also put boundaries. So to answer your question, Emma, which was how do you start educating someone who is fat and claims it's the reason for the health issues because fat phobic doctor told her they don't consent, then if they don't consent to education, it's not your place to do so. You can say things like, Would you like to hear about this resource that shows you how to treat XYZ without sticking around body size? And if they say no, then okay, no problem. If you ever want that, let me know. You know, if your mom says I need to lose weight, as my doctor says that's why my knees are sore. You could say I'm so sorry. You're experiencing that. I wish doctors would not blame weight on everything. There are treatments outside of losing weight that are helpful. Do you want me to send you a link? Or just I'm sorry, you deserve evidence based care. After, after the first time of asking if she wants your opinion about this? And she says no, don't keep like, saying, you know, keep keep keep on saying things because it could feel really badgering and it might push her away from a connection with you or from discovering this type of stuff. Just be there for her. And also set boundaries for your own well being because, you know, if she's talking about this a lot, I mean, for me, I you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to deal with that long term. So, so yeah, so sorry, ama, kind of a complicated and not so perfect kind of answer. Yeah. Can't we just mind control people? Okay, next question. Hi, Vinny. I have a silly question. I'm considering a dual citizenship with Canada. And moving here. If it becomes unsafe for me to exist in my home country, the US have a but the idea of immigration medical exam kind of scares me because they mentioned weighing No, when I was I have a history of eating disorders, can you ask them not to weigh you? Or for a blind weighing? Also, feel free to share this question on an episode of UC field? Thanks in advance violence. Okay, so immigration processes can be discriminatory towards fat people. As far as I know, from my research, Canada is not one of those places. One of those places is New Zealand, in case you're curious. So my experience with the medical exam, bearing in mind is 10 plus years ago, is that I had a chest x x ray, than a doctor listened to me breathing and then talked about Malcolm Gladwell, the book that I was reading, to fill the time, it was really kind of like nothing. However, I did have a smaller body, then I was probably a small fat at that time. I don't remember being weighed, but they must have because in the the things in online, what it tells you about what they're looking for. It does say one of the first things that usually the first thing is a way you why fatphobia, but they are not looking at someone's weight as a reason to deny them. I was looking on people sharing their experiences. And no one said that weight was the criteria that they were denied for everyone who said that they had a very large body so that they got him. What they're looking for is communicable diseases. So things like tuberculosis, they might do, they might be looking for things like syphilis or, you know, other things that could affect other people. Or they're looking for if the if there is an excessive excessive demand from the healthcare system. And what they define that it is, is in 2023 $128,445, over five years, or 25,000 ish a year. Yeah. So to answer your question, I think they will have to weigh you, I would be hesitant to say, I don't want to be weighed because I have a history or history of eating disorder. Because I wouldn't want them to write that down. And I wouldn't want them to have any type of reason to be like, Wow, that's gonna cost us money. You know? So I would just be like, I don't want to see the weight. So when you get in, you know, if they say we weigh you just say, you know, can I not see the weight? And not mentioned why. And you know, that the whoever was is weighing you is probably going to be a massive decade if they say no, I'm gonna force you to fail. But then again, I don't remember being weighed, you know, but then again, I was I had a smaller body so it wasn't, maybe it wasn't that more dramatic. Maybe they, you do a self report. Wait, you know, in the waiting room, they're like, what's your height? What's your weight and all that type of stuff? What medications are you on? I just remember being like, in the room with the doctor being like, literally, this is so funny how little he is interested in checking my well being in you know, because I had to be a you have to take your clothes off and wear a gown. From what I remember because I remember being like this is so silly is literally just chatting to me about Malcolm Gladwell. I feel like this is a bullshit test, which is good which is fine for me, you know. So, anyway, next question.

Hi there. My mum has been referred to a weight loss surgeon and program in order in order to lose weight to get a surgery for her knee and I was wondering if you had any research on the negative and dangerous side effects of weight loss surgery? From Deanna? Yes, Deanna we absolutely do. I have 1234 episodes on weight loss surgery, starting with episode 90 links for everything in the show notes. But to find the episodes that I'm talking about, you can just go to facebook.com forward slash the episode number. So for 90 it's 090. So Episode 90, will weight loss surgery make you thin, healthy and live longer? Episode One to two stories from weight loss survivors patients eight years post on Episode one to six of stories from weight loss survivors part two, Episode 165, weight loss, surgery stats and stories. Part Three. If you want more digestible content, I have an Instagram post that goes over weight loss surgery facts, and also an Instagram post with stories from survivors. Let me just read out some facts for you if you want them just at the top of your brain. Okay, so will it extend your life 4.6% die within a year 7.5% For Men 6.4% by four years and 15.8% by eight years. Three out of 1000 die within 30 days increased mortality risks are times seven in year one and 250% to 363%. By year four, will it make you feel unhealthy? Two years after the surgery 46% have regained weight and by four years it's 63%. No randomized controlled clinical trials that have shown any any long term improvements to actual health or that lives are saved or extended complications 20 to 25% of gastric bypass, patients develop life threatening competent complications. 89% of patients had at least one adverse event 1/3 of them severe 56% of bariatric patients had 62 Different gastrointestinal complications and abnormalities, double the risk of substance use issues and four times increase of death by suicide. Most insurance companies won't pay for the procedure which costs between 15 and $25,000. One of the most lucrative specialities for doctors, fun times. That's saying that sometimes healthcare is held by ransom. So with your mum, and you said it was your mom. With your mom, it could be that she has to in order to get the surgery. However, there are ways to advocate for evidence based care if there are bariatric surgeons who are able to safely sedate, and Nisa ties, fat patients, can we not get those same anesthesiologists to be present for knee surgery? The answer is yes, we can. And it is just the the knee surgeons lack of skill, that means the anesthesiologist, lack of skill, that means that they are not able to safely and nice digitize someone in a larger body. And so that is not acceptable. So there could be advocating for finding someone who will do it and higher weight patients. And that's absolutely something that is possible. It's not out of the realms of of reality. However, it could be difficult depending where you are. So and again, the same with what Emma's post is, although we can say I think this is a bad idea, you know, again, your mom has body autonomy, autonomy, and she could decide that that's the best choice. Even if she doesn't agree with it, you know, even if she doesn't agree with having to do weight loss surgery. Because it's just knees or not. Knees, knee pain is not improved with weight loss. It makes me so annoyed. And so this surgeon is saying it's not safe for me to operate on you. So you need to go and get another operation with loads of risks for me to then be able to operate on you because you have a smaller body and it's just fucked up. So sending love to your mom, I hope everything works out. Okay, next question. Hey, Vinny. My question is, isn't it actually unhealthy to be fat? And if it's not, how do you explain to others like family members and friends that it's not? Thanks, Melanie. Okay, so I want us to remember a couple of things. So when this health question comes up, okay. And I will I want it to kind of remember the couple of things so that it's easy so you can feel relaxed when when these types of debates come up if you want to engage in them. I'll tell you what those are in just I'm just going to give a little kind of preamble, but I'll tell you what they are. So, fatness in and of itself has not been shown to cause that what is really important cause poor health outcomes fatness has not been shown to cause poor health outcomes with all the research around fatness, we have no causal relationships there. Okay. Which is rigid, which is very remarkable. Okay. So fat tissue, adipose tissue is not this thing that makes fat people sick. Now someone might say hi, I mean, there was a study that shows that there was fat mice had like free radicals going around their bodies. Were not mice were different creatures. We have no data that talks about that in humans at all, no causal mechanism there. So what we do know is that there are links found with dieting, which are shame and stigma subpar or denied night denied health care and dieting that have a causal relationship with worse health outcomes. So for example, if a fat person cannot access an MRI machine, because the local machines available only fit small bodies, and therefore a diagnosis is missed or delayed, because they can't find a suitable machine. Is it the fat person's fatness that causes the poor health outcome? Or is it the systemic anti fatness at play? It's the latter right. There fatness has not caused them to have delay in diagnosis not being able to get treatment seek treatment being denied treatment, it is anti fatness, right. So we also have a lot of studies on the O word paradox. The O word paradox being basically hang on a minute. We thought fat people were like dying left, right and center and you know fatness causes all these diseases, but it turns out fatness is protective, and also, fat people have reduced mortality. They it's apparent paradox, you know, and there's more and more studies keep coming out that say this. I mean, this should just get rid of the paradox thing, you know, because it's just like, Hmm, could it be independent factors that causes someone to have different health outcomes versus this arbitrary physical characteristic of body size? You know, it's like if people studied like, oh, do green eyes versus blue eyes? Do green eyed people have worse outcomes and blue eyed people and some studies, it's a paradox. Apparently, blue eyed people do have better outcomes sometimes. And sometimes they don't. What? What's it got to do with anything? Yeah, I got like, you know, whatever. So anyway, so we've got lots of studies on this one huge systematic review and meta analysis shows that folks have reduced mortality compared to quote, normal weight people. Quote from the study, 97 studies were retained for analysis providing a combined sample size of more than 2.8 8 million individuals, and more than 270,000 deaths. I'm gonna put a link to this in the show notes to the study. But Harriet brown kind of summarizes what it says in a piece called The O word crisis is a myth. So Katherine Fleagle,

who is one of the co authors of the papal paper, an epidemiologist at the CDC, so CDC Center for Disease control's National Center for Health Statistics sense set out to map the relationship between BMI categories and mortality, they expected to find a linear relationship, the higher a person's BMI, the greater their risk of dying prematurely. But that's not what they found instead, Fleagle and her colleagues discovered what statisticians call a U shaped curve at the bottom of the curve, the lower lowest risk of death, falling around 25 Just 26 on the BMI, BMI chart making the risk of early death lowest, lowest labeled for those overweight people considered mildly Oh, had roughly the same risk of diets are dying as those in the quote normal category. Death rates went up for those either end of the scale underweight and severely Oh, but not by much. The differences we're talking about overall pretty tiny, explains Fleegle. As soon as free goes analysis appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association, the excrement hit the air conditioning. Other researchers claimed her work was shoddy that she'd left out important data. They said there was no way her results could be accurate. SJ, all ole Shanky a professor of epidemiology at the University of Illinois, Chicago, responded with a journal article arguing that rising fatness rates would shorten lives by two to five years. That statistic got a lot of attention and is still floating around today despite the fact that it has been utterly and thoroughly debunked. As one of all shank keys co authors University of Alabama, Alabama Birmingham biostatistician, David B. Allison told a reporter from Scientific American these are just back of the envelope plausible scenarios. were never meant for them to be portrayed as precise. See, funny how those types of things they just they, those little sound bites, they get picked up. And that's it floats around, you know. But reports like these which are grounded in opinion and clear agendas rather than fat, food and an increasingly hostile and confusing public conversation around weight. At the very least, we're being taught that dieting is benign, something that that can't hurt us, even if it doesn't really help. The truth is dieting is actually harmful for many of us for all sorts of reasons. And it doesn't make most of us thinner, or healthier. The Cure has become worse than the disease. This is making me feel like I'm trying to wrack my brain of the program. It might have been like, Married at First Sight. There was this girl that was this woman that was saying, I think she was saying sugar is more addictive than heroin. This is like this is like in the recesses of my of my mind of I watched Married at First Sight Australia. The whole I think it's a tense season, the most recent season during my time off, and God It fucked with my luck with my body image. It's like, you know, like, like, you decide you like fuck it, you know, I'm just gonna watch the show and get all the trash you notice and then and then like, detox my brain by watching things which have different people in anyway. This is going to wreck my awareness from and the people at the table will like you What is wrong with you that you think that is more addictive than an actual drug like heroin? Ah, if anyone knows what I'm talking about, message me and tell me because I was going to wrack my brain because I wouldn't want to do a put that into like a little sound bite. Anyway, so so so so anyway, back to the question, is it talking about Married at First Sight, but you know that and I'm gonna talk about it at first sight is bad for body image, but if you want to watch it, it was entertaining. But you do need in like, be cautious with the amount of thin people who will look the same anyway. So so so so, so our fat people healthy. So for me, if that people are healthy or not healthy is a moot point. What if every single fat person was unhealthy? What then? Should we deny unhealthy people care kindness that humanity? No. So is there any way that fat people can reliably become thin people? Because people will say, Well, you know, they should lose weight. Well, there is no reliable way for fat people to become thin people. So what's the solution? Shame fat people into behaving in a way that a fat phobic is comfortable with. Basically what this comes down to is comforting the feelings of body beggars. They would feel better if every fat person was groveling for forgiveness for existing and performing health by only eating carrots and never leaving the house or existing online or being on a treadmill for five hours a day. And even then if a fat person does raise their head and advocate for themselves, it will discuss the fat folk. So the thing is, if someone's fat phobic, there's no winning, right? Because, you know, you can argue and say fat people can be healthy and fat people can be unhealthy. But, you know, like, where are we going to go with this? You know, what's, what's your solution eugenics like, what are we doing with So, you know, so for me if a relative asked me, Are Fat People healthy? I would tell them the above if I, you know, if they were interested maybe. And also ask, do you think it's appropriate to treat unhealthy people unkindly? Because that will tell me all I need to know about whether I want to engage with that person further. So to answer your question, Are Fat People unhealthy? Yes. I think people are unhealthy. Yes. Are Fat People healthy? Yes. Yes. But what is health? You know, I think people have a yet yes. But what is health? Like? It's just such a complicated topic. What is health? Being free from disease is a dictionary definition. But you know, what these people who are saying, Are Fat People that people are unhealthy that they're not thinking about a holistic view of health? They're thinking, do they have diabetes? Do they have high blood pressure? You know, do they disgust me? Because if they disgust me, then it's a problem. But if that fat person is depressed, or is experiencing terrible weight stigma, don't get left out. You know? Yeah, no. Okay, so next question. Hi, Vinny. I tried searching your website, but I don't think it was working. I also searched surgery because I know you did an episode on my and I didn't find anything. I'm sorry about that. Anyway, I was just diagnosed with type two diabetes. And I was wondering if you have an episode about that from an anti diet fat positive standpoint? If not, that's my question. Best Li. Thankfully, yeah, sorry, the little search thing doesn't work. But anyway, I just in the one of the other questions, I just put it a list of a list of all of the ones on surgery on weight loss surgery anyway. So sending a ton of love to you as you navigate this new diagnosis, Lee, especially because the shame and stigma around fatness and type two diabetes is horrible. And for many, it's actually worse than the actual condition. So and I've not done a whole episode on it. And I feel like that's probably because other people speak better about it than me because I have no experience lived experience with it. But good news. There's about a bajillion resources. Now, not as much as a bajillion, but probably like 40 resources. So just the other day happens to be before I read your thing, your message? Marilyn, what and I'm friends with Marion when I'm on Facebook, and also Marilyn, when profile is a public if you're not friends with her, but she asked the question, what are the new groups on type two diabetes and

fatness, you know, and so people gave her some links there a couple of links. They didn't give a couple of people put the name of the group but I wasn't able to find them because I think they're private groups. And if they're a private group, you can't search them as well, I think. So if anyone has names to these two groups, links to these two groups, please send them to me, and I'll add them to the show notes. But the first one was non dieting, diabetics. And the next one was called fat sugar baby. So if anyone is in those groups, send me a link so I can share that with other people. But I do have the link for these two groups, these two groups called diet free talk for diabetes slash insulin issues, and fat positive Intuitive Eating diabetes community. So in the shownotes, there's going to be a link again in the show notes first fatty.com forward slash 177 for episode 177. Or just look around wherever you're listening to this. Other people have left other comments one said I attend a free virtual weight inclusive diabetes support group and that was that's hosted by Laura Newman, rd. It's moderated by some awesome folks and I've always had a good experience. They're very thoughtful antidote space linea Ashlyn has a whole blog post, which is 25 plus weight neutral and Health at Every Size resources for managing diabetes linked for you there. And there's loads of stuff on there. I was scrolling through I was like, Oh, this is great. This is this was a one minute search on the Internet and I found these already. I probably know where to look though. I know what's I know what's you know if I see the word body liberation photos, I know it's I know it's lonely and so I know it's safe. So we've got lots of different things like articles, books, other resources, all sorts literally all sorts of stuff too much for me to mention here so go find that link. Also Hayes health sheets, which is my go to for everything. There's hate nutrition handouts by Megan always wonder how to say a name sissy sis set. C i C H Y SECI. Google says sketchy. So it's probably wrong. So Megan Cichy, I think he's polish has got a nutrition handouts doobly doo. But let's have a look at his health sheets because that that kind of gives us an overview for those who are curious. So it goes up, what is it? What causes it? How is it diagnosed? How is it treated? What about pre diabetes? I just realized I totally forgot to tell you the two points that that question in which was our fat people unhealthy? The two points to remember. You don't need to remember statistics and CDC study and there's some that first point is what if every single fat person that walked the earth was unhealthy? What then? Do we round them all up? And, you know, well, what are you suggesting eugenics? Like, what if? What if any person will say well put them on a diet? Okay, point two, we've close to 100 years of evidence that there is no way for the vast majority of people to lose weight. It's not even like, maybe, maybe we do have some evidence, it's not good. Where it's, it is so over studied. And so well established that we do not have any way. And that includes surgeries and pills and injections. We do not have any way to win a way to make fat people into thin people long term for any more than a tiny percentage of people. Okay, so that's not like an if someone says, Well, I can't be true. Ask them, okay, find one study, which shows weight loss for even 10% of the people, you know, a tiny amount for more than five years. They can't find it, it does not exist doesn't exist, doesn't exist. Loads of studies to show if you know, if you do this or that or whatever, you'll lose weight temporarily. So anyway, so that's the two three points is it all fat people are unhealthy? Yeah, they're healthy and they're unhealthy and what is health? But what if they are unhealthy? What is everyone wonderful fat people are unhealthy. There's no way to make fat people think people. Okay, so that's the two points you need to remember. So you don't need to be on fat people, they all have this condition and that condition and fat people are terrible and fat people are agreeing. Okay, so let's just presume every single fat person is really really deeply unhealthy. Are they suggesting eugenics If so, thing I want you in my life because those workbooks Okay, so, anyway, we were talking about his health issues. So just to kind of quick overview of type two diabetes, what causes it a number of factors can contribute to an increased risk of type two diabetes, including weight cycling, yo yo dieting, and internalized weight stigma, but type two diabetes is predominantly a genetic condition. While much of fat phobic misinformation floats around, you cannot eat your way to type two diabetes, it affects people of all sizes. You've done nothing wrong for it to happen. Lola that that resource from from Lindley is so many of them are posts from nutritionists who are saying sugar does not cause type two diabetes, it is not your fault type not one diabetes is not the diabetes where it's not your fault. And type two is your fault. That's not true. It's not true that you're not allowed to eat carbohydrates. It's not true that you can't do intuitive eating like just so many things. And there's so many of them is about sugar. Because it's just so the stigma around it really, I really want people to not feel that, that that stigma and with pre diabetes, which is a bullshit made up condition if you want to know more about that, go check out the links in the show notes. Okay, so this episode is is getting poured a gigantic and and so I'm gonna have to split it into two episodes. So let's leave it here for for today. And then we'll continue with the questions in next episode 178. And if you appreciate the work that I'm doing and fat liberation reminder, go to Kofi KOF. I link in the show notes. And this donate or not whatever, it was a you, you do you as we've established, we can't force people to do anything. But if we get to $680 then we will have four episodes a month and that will be great because I miss it when I'm not talking to you. It's like you're my friends and you're not here anyway and also maybe you like the content. Maybe you do maybe you don't you probably do if you're listening this fall. Anyway, whatever. Stop talking. So you know, while alligators stay face fatty, or whatever wonderful fat positive day.