Episode 183 Transcript
SUMMARY:
Potato recipes and dairy sensitivity. 0:00
Body shaming and weight issues. 4:40
Body shaming and exclusion on a shopping trip. 11:07
Weight, disability, and family dynamics. 15:40
Parental influence on a child's body image and eating habits. 20:06
Body shaming and parenting. 25:56
Body shaming and furniture concerns. 30:20
Fatphobia and seating comfort in a social setting. 36:10
Weight and travel plans with a controlling tone. 42:05
Body image and attraction in relationships. 47:23
Body image and fatphobia. 52:29
Read the transcript alongside the audio.
You're listening to The Fierce Fatty Podcast episode 183: Am I The asshole for telling my daughter-in-law. She wasn't invited due to her weight. We're reading Reddit posts today. I'm your host Vinny Welsby. Let's do it.
Hello, welcome to the show happy 2024 But no, yeah, you alive still. You are me too. So I'm excited that you're here. And we've got a cheer Yossi G. Yossi. Repeat after me, gee, you say, juicy. Show. Today, we've got a friend of the show. And a friend of mine in real life, summer in summer has her own podcast, eat the rules, but she has like 50 million episodes, and it's really good. And she has guests. So if you want to go and listen to somebody's podcast, after listening to this episode, then you should do that because I don't really have guests and somebody does. So I'm just so self obsessed. I don't want to share the mic with anyone else. Because I know it all. That was sarcasm by the way. And if you appreciate this fat content, then go to Kofi Cato, FYI, forward slash, first fatty, or go to the show notes where there's going to be a link and sign up to be a baby fat $5 A month you'll get the access to the incredible 30 Save 37 Page Size diversity Resource Guide, which includes links to all the best social media accounts to follow TEDx talks, to watch TED talks, to watch books to read podcasts ready to listen to Facebook groups, you can join cloves, where to shop science resources and other helpful info all for just five bucks. Or you can do 10 bucks or 20 bucks you get more stuff. You get more stuff. If you were do that. That would be amazing. If you did that. You don't have to I ain't the boss of you. But if you do like fat content, then that would be cool. That'd be real cool. So let's go do some time traveling and go and visit Vinnie and summer in the past and talk about am I the asshole on what the bloody hell is I am the asshole anyway let's do it. So hey Summer.
Summer 2:48
Hi, Vinny.
Vinny Welsby 2:50
Don't talk to me God I was just gonna go on a monologue. You're not here to talk. He just listened to me. Now you're allowed to talk go and then you say hello, whatever you want to say.
Summer 3:04
That's all I was gonna say. I was gonna say you need to share your potato recipe with everybody.
Vinny Welsby 3:10
Oh, I went around someone's house on Christmas day and I made potatoes which was put mashed potato on the bottom which had Irish cheddar and cream salt and pepper, whatever. And then on top was sliced like dough from wild potatoes with garlic and Parmesan. Palmer's Parmesan has as you North American say Parmesan, as I would say baked in the oven so it might be crispy on the top and soft in the middle some I liked it I liked it. someone's husband liked it some summers baby liked it not baby child. Everyone liked it and I liked eating your meat and other stuff you gave me
Summer 3:49
my beef curtains
Vinny Welsby 3:53
Jovica and I went to lay my beef it was
Summer 3:58
really good it was it was really really good. No it was like I think I would highly recommend that recipe you should share it in your stories with the link
Vinny Welsby 4:06
I'll stay I'll share it in the in the podcast episode show notes and you can sit you can share it with your people
Speaker 1 4:13
and you know it's better it didn't give me diarrhea and I'm like really sensitive to dairy but
Vinny Welsby 4:19
wow see Irish cheese maybe the Irish cheese you know what maybe it is the Irish cheese it's better cheese.
Speaker 1 4:26
It actually it is that's the only cheese I can eat is like the Kerrygold cheese that I get. Ah yeah.
Vinny Welsby 4:34
Anti diarrhea potatoes love it. I'm going to market it like that. Okay
Unknown Speaker 4:43
all right, let's get into this.
Vinny Welsby 4:45
So I was having summer about something called Am I the asshole and someone says what is that? I've never heard of it. And so some of you might not have heard of it. Some of you may have heard of it and are obsessed like I am I was watching YouTube videos of people reading Am I the asshole stories are basically what it is on Reddit. The only reason why I would go on to Reddit is to go on to am I the asshole? It's a thread where people ask, Was it asshole in this situation? Or is the other person the asshole? Or were both of us the assholes are what none of us see ourselves and then the Reddit community will decide if you're the asshole or not. And so there'll be lots of different posts from lots of different types of people. And when I'm reading people's responses, a lot of times they're from people on Reddit and so a lot of times their response is I'm like, I don't really trust trust that response because they are clearly addicted or maybe the people don't have the same views as summer summer and I in regards to anti fatness anti diet, all that type of stuff. And I sit there's a lot of stuff on me they also about diet stuff and and anti fatness and I thought, let's mean some I have a chinwag because I think that you you lot you lot the listeners are gonna enjoy hearing our perspectives, cuz you're obsessed with us, obviously. Like I was say December before making not joke. Obsessive me, anyway,
Speaker 1 6:16
do you ever? Do you ever chime in on those Reddit threads? Like you read them? Do you ever? Do you ever comment? Fuck
Vinny Welsby 6:23
no. Okay, you're just a voyeur. Sometimes you know what, because I love these things so much. I follow people reshare posts on Facebook and also on Instagram. Like one time I made a comment on Instagram. And people like dog piled and was like, Yeah, you can't say that. Like they were disagreeing with me. Because I was like, oh, it's not nice to shame someone you know, even if they're being mean to you about their body. You know? Yeah. And people were like, yes, it is. We should definitely shame someone who shames someone for their body for their body. And I'm like, No. And yeah, it's
Speaker 1 7:00
just not a safe space to ever comment on anything online. I agree. I agree. So I was like, oh, maybe you have like this alter, like alternate life where you
Vinny Welsby 7:10
made my pretended mentor. I should pretend to be like a a man, a white man would like a profile picture. And then no one would disagree with my comments. Wise, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 7:25
You know, knows, he knows. Yes.
Vinny Welsby 7:27
So I've pulled out a selection of stories. And we're gonna have a chat about it. And before we do a trigger warning about the stories because they're coming from people who have anti fat pro diet views. So if you're not in that headspace today, then you know, skip on by. I'm not going to be sharing specific sizes or weights or things around food. I'll say, you know, I won't say someone weighs x pounds or say they're a small fat or they're not fat or whatever. Yeah. Anything you want to say about that? No, that's good. Are you ready for our first story?
Unknown Speaker 8:12
I'm so ready.
Vinny Welsby 8:14
If you're feeling comfortable, then we shall begin. Okay, by the way, all the links for the stories will have in the show notes. Okay, so first story, am I the asshole and by the way, you'll see am I the asshole abbreviated to a I T E? So if you see that that's what that means. Am I the asshole for telling my daughter in law? She wasn't invited due to her weight. So initial reaction just from the title their summer? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 8:43
you're the asshole.
Vinny Welsby 8:50
I was like, Oh, you're
Unknown Speaker 8:52
so it gets so much worse.
Vinny Welsby 8:54
You just get worse. Let's read it. Okay, so the story is we have done plenty of things that are not physically taxing with her. But even the small stuff she ends up on a bench half the day. We went to a small mall half of the day on half of the day on the bench. It was window shopping. She is a word. Her ankles are swollen from her weight. The connection between her weight and not walking far without a break is very obvious. I will try to keep this short. I have three girls and we still like to do girl trips for the days might for the day. My son got married to a girl named Beth. Now before her first kids she was average weighs quotations, whatever that means. And after it got a lot worse her only kid is eight years old at this point and she hasn't lost the weight is bad enough that she needs to she needs constant breaks walking. If I could I roll for my eyes to fall out of my head. already. Yeah, I knew I used to like her. And now I don't do to do to how she acts. Everywhere we go Go with her. It's a constant complaining that she is tired. The last girl's trip to the mall was spent sitting on a bench half the day since she needed constant breaks. The you tried to leave you will go on about abandoning her. It's annoying. I invited the girls to go to a farm for pumpkin patch and pick some apples. It has big orchards and a ton of walking. We went to a great we went and it was a great time and some pictures went on Facebook. I got a call from Beth asking why she wasn't invited. I lied, saying it was just a family trip. And she accused me of lying. I had enough and told her the truth. I told her that she wasn't invited due to her weight, that she forces us to stop all the time. And it ruins the trips. Most days since we don't get to do half the stuff. She called me a jerk and hung up. I'm getting texts from my son saying to apologize. But the girls presumably her children are on my side and are sick of having trips ruined since we have to wait for her all the time. So she is that person? The asshole? Yeah.
Speaker 1 11:06
And I actually think she's sparing the poor daughter in law by not being around her because who would want to be around a person like that? I
Vinny Welsby 11:16
know. What's for me like definitely the asshole. What do you think that the public said? Do you think that they said they're the asshole or not?
Speaker 1 11:27
I mean, I know because I read it that they don't think that she's the asshole, which is really awful. Because in any in any other circumstance, like if the person was like old or disabled, then this mother or mother in law would be the asshole. Right. But because it's fatness people are you know, anti fatness is so normalized. And that people were on her side? On the mother in law side? Yeah,
Vinny Welsby 12:00
exactly. Yeah, that's the first thing I thought like, imagine if it was like, Oh, my daughter in law uses a mobility aid. And sometimes she needs a wrist. Oh, will it decode? She's rubbing off fun. And then people would be like, What the fuck is wrong with you? Like, hello. But because because the person is fat? I bet they're thinking, well, she could just become thin and not be such a burden on this poor woman that just wants to shop with her girls and not have it ruined by some greedy fat monster that wants to have a break.
Speaker 1 12:33
Yeah, I mean, I think this woman like obviously, the mother in law obviously hates the daughter in law as a person as well, I think because I feel like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. And I also think she hates herself because people who are who don't hate themselves don't treat other people like that. But I but I also think that she just doesn't like the daughter in law. In addition, and maybe you can't separate those two things. Maybe yes, like all she sees, right. But yeah, I feel as though especially just because of the way that she reacted when the daughter called her about it like that. She was just such that she was just like so. You know, cruel about everything that she doesn't want a relationship with her. Yeah. Which means she doesn't want a relationship with her grandson, which means she's like, even more of an asshole.
Vinny Welsby 13:27
Yeah. What so what would you say to the people who are like, well, the mother in law is right. She is ruining the trip by having to, quote, sit down for half the day.
Speaker 1 13:42
How was that ruining the trip? Just modify the trip. Like just make accommodations for people I don't understand like, so she needs to sit down. So sit down for a bit and then go do your thing separate for a bit like, I don't understand how that's ruining the trip.
Vinny Welsby 13:58
Yeah. But the mother in law said that the daughter in law says she, if you try to leave, she will go on about abandoning her. It's annoying.
Unknown Speaker 14:12
What do you think about that?
Vinny Welsby 14:14
I think that the mother in law is probably exaggerating to the extreme like, yeah, like, go on about abandoning her and has to sit down for half a day and the trip is ruined. Like that seems like is that really what happened? Or was it that she was like, Oh, I'm just gonna have a little break I'm gonna sit down and then they because the mother on or doesn't like her. She's like, Oh, and is exasperated and see and is exaggerating. And even if she wasn't exaggerating, it just to me, it sounds suspicious. It's like, I wonder if the daughter in law had a post. I bet you it'd be very different, like my mother in law, like excludes me from trips. And every time I sit down, she has a go with me or whatever. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 15:04
like I imagine this mother in law. And I'm making huge sweeping assumptions here, but probably has focused a lot of her life around trying to maintain her body or is naturally thin, and therefore holds this like belief of superiority. And, and therefore, yeah, makes like exaggerations, like this to say, to have people kind of, you know, get her back in the situation.
Vinny Welsby 15:40
So the verdict from everyone, like we mentioned is they said that this woman is not the asshole. The top comment said, at the risk of being called fat phobic good for you. You're not the asshole. Why should your trips revolve around her? Well, I don't think they are. Why should you be forced to plan outings that are within your daughter in law's step limit? Because that's a nice thing to do. Finally, you're free to only invite your actual daughters to things to you aren't blocking her from any and all family gatherings? She just got blocked from this one, which I hope is the first of many trips you and your daughters have been putting off for her sake, get out there and see the world like that common is trash. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 16:27
Yeah. Like it's terrible, right? Because again, if you put any other label on the person, like mobility aids, or like, it's my grandmother can't walk very far. Yeah.
Vinny Welsby 16:40
The thing is, like, if you, if you need accommodations, for everything, for anything, you don't expect that you are able to go to everything, right. So if you whatever accommodations that you you need, you know that a lot of places are not able to meet those accommodations, for whatever reason. And so I don't think the daughter in law is like, you can never do anything without me. And if you do, you know, you're a terrible person, but it sounded like this was like a family outing that she was just no, not invited to. And so it's like, say, if you have to make a few accommodations to make sure that the daughter in law can come isn't really that big of a deal. No.
Speaker 1 17:29
The other the other piece of this is, is the fact that the assumption that her ability is related to her size. Yes. We don't know why she needs to take breaks. Fucking pain for some reason, you know what I mean? Like, it might have nothing it might it might not have anything to do with her weight. Yeah. It's the other is the other piece of it. Or maybe she just needs to take breaks to not be around the mother in law. I mean, that would make
Vinny Welsby 18:01
God Yeah, and honestly, shopping is fucking tiring. I went to the mall. on Boxing Day. I know what was wrong with me because I am wanting to get this the lush sale. If anyone doesn't know lush has a sale on Boxing Day. I never knew about this. I got some bugs in amazing lush stuff for half price anyway, and I go to Bath and Bodyworks but I was tired. I was sweating. I sat down I had to go and get a water because like, it's like a sport. And so if I was doing that all day, I'd be doing exactly what the Doren law allegedly is doing. Having just being a normal human having an animal of arrest, you know, taking a break, because I have a human body and I'm sure people in smaller bodies will be doing the same. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:44
100% Yeah, for some. Yeah.
Vinny Welsby 18:47
So our conclusion is what my conclusion is. Mother in law is the asshole
Unknown Speaker 18:54
100% Beth call us We got your back. Yes.
Vinny Welsby 18:57
Oh my goodness. Imagine if that was listening to the show. How amazing. So that was all stamp. Asshole. Okay, story 2am I the asshole for putting my nine year old on a diet and quote, emotionally damaging her. So, first reaction just from that summer would you recognize
Unknown Speaker 19:20
Yeah, yes.
Vinny Welsby 19:23
Obviously, ob V of you're really so Okay, so the story at x meaning x partner 32 female, they say like the ages and stuff. Sometimes they use the word female. I don't like it. But anyway, X 32 female so this person's x and I 34 Male have a nine year old daughter. M is the codename we're going to call them. We broke up when M was five and I moved away. I would see em in breaks and speak on the phone. So I was involved as I could be Last year, I moved back I now have her alternative weeks alternate weeks. I had noticed em starting to put on weight. She's not Oh word but seeing her in person I've noticed she has a belly, which hangs over her waistband. And she wears clothes older than what she is despite only being nine so the kids night now. I spoke to x and she got defensive saying that M eight what she eats. X is skinny and healthy, and has a sport she goes to twice a week. I asked her asked her about portion sizes and other exercises twice a week for 90 minutes isn't that much. I was trying to stay friendly, but x shut me down. I know weight gets harder to lose the older you get. So I decided to keep a close eye and do what I could on her weeks with me. I did not put her on a crash diet. But I did start using portion control plates and packing lean lunches instead of her instead of letting her by her food. Carrot Sticks yogurt flavored steamed chicken breast etc. and complained at first but then seemed fine with this. I also took her to the gym with me four times a week. My gym have my gym has parents and child classes. So the kid is doing now six times a week exercise. The only thing I said to him about it is that we were working to set her up for a future being physically fit and mindful of what she eats. So last week, a kid is having a birthday party and the parents are taking a small group to the movies and after a sleepover. The parents asked me what everyone send their kid asked me that everyone send their kid with their own snack, and then the parents would buy popcorn on top to share. I'm trying to show my kid that snacks can be healthy. So I sent her with a bag of veggie sticks and hummus. She she made a little fuss about not getting candy but seemed fine. I dropped her off and X was going to pick her up next day X Tex I had over an X isn't happy M is upset and won't look at me. Apparently when they were all sat waiting for the movie kids starting comparing snacks and told the other kids they were going to get fat and unhealthy because their parents gave them those snacks. She said that that she had to eat the veggie so she could lose weight. And she wasn't allowed any popcorn. I never said this. Then at the house after they after they ordered pizza for the kids. M refused to eat saying she was going to get fat. The parents called X and she came and got her and was crying saying that she was scared if she ate anything bad. She'd put on weight and everyone would hate her. She told x about our diet and gym. I hadn't because it was my weeks and why should I divulge all our plants? X rounded saying m always came home tired and refusing to eat. She blamed me for giving em a complex when she was healthy, inactive. I said if she was healthy, she wouldn't have a belly and be bigger than other girls. I said that at least I cared about what the girl puts in her mouth. And she said m was happier before I moved back. Now x is telling me that she won't send her back to me if I don't stop quote emotionally damaging her. So am I the asshole?
Unknown Speaker 23:24
Yes, this is a really heartbreaking story.
Vinny Welsby 23:27
I know. That poor that poor baby. That poor nine year old, why didn't Why do you think he's an asshole? Apart from obvious reasons? Because
Speaker 1 23:37
he's giving her an eating disorder. Pricing from daddy. Yeah, I mean, I think you probably see this too. But like, there's, I would say, you know, the vast majority of the clients that, that come to work with me had experiences like this. And, you know, 40 years later, they're still struggling with the same thing because of an incident that happened like this when they were in these younger years where kids are supposed to gain weight. Little girls are supposed to gain weight and even if they even if it was more than maybe what they're supposed to gain with puberty like it doesn't there's no reason that anyone should ever treat their kid like this.
Vinny Welsby 24:22
Yeah, it's so true. It's like the origin story for like villains, right is is something terrible happened to them, or heroes. And I feel like with with most people who and especially with most fat people, their origin story is parent shamed them and actually I was at I was at Fat con, which is a conference for fat people in Seattle this weekend and I was on a panel I said, hands up if you have a similar story to mine and I was saying how my my parents fat shamed me A as a kid, and everyone's hand went up apart from one person, I'm sure that one person didn't hear me or something, you know, right or maybe not. But you know, it's a universal experience of, of many, many people who end up having eating disorders or who have a fat body. Hmm, yeah. And
Speaker 1 25:19
I remember being that age and I remember like, this girl in my class really being bullied for her body. And my brother used to really bully me for my body. And I remember like, how much of an impact that had and really implanted this like hatred towards and shame of my own of my own body, you know, and fear around it and fear around it being scrutinized and and so I just think that like, it's, it's really, really sad because the seed has already been planted for this poor girl.
Vinny Welsby 25:56
Yeah. And what do you think about the mum saying she's not going to let the kid around? Unless he stops? What did you say emotionally damaging her? Yeah, good. Yeah. I'm like, fuck yeah. For that, Mum. Thank you. Thank God, that kid has the mum.
Speaker 1 26:15
Yeah. Yeah, I was actually happy to see the comments on this. And yeah, of the mum and you know, telling the guy that he was an asshole. Like the majority of comments. Were like you're giving her an eating disorder? Yeah,
Vinny Welsby 26:30
yeah. So the verdict on that one was asshole, asshole. Sorry. And the top comment was, man, your daughter is nine. She's a little chubby for what you've said. And she was crying because she was scared if she ate anything for Christ's sake, you're the asshole. And if you fuck your daughter, and you are fucking your daughter's life, what the actual hell do you think that you're doing? Someone then edit. Some of you guys got to be kidding. There's no info about the child being unhealthy. There is no info about medical reasons to get her to lose weight. There is only the original post of disliking the way the daughter looks because she has a quote, belly. Making a nine year old cry and fear of eating is not okay. And will never be okay. And saying, Oh, you're just thinking about what's best for her is bullshit. This is abusive. This is how body complexes are born.
Speaker 1 27:26
Yeah, the other part of that's terrible is now this little girl's viewing anti fatness to her friends to
Vinny Welsby 27:31
Yes. And that could be the thing that starts their journey with an eating disorder, disordered eating body image stuff would be like, Oh, that one time that M came and we had popcorn and I felt really ashamed.
Speaker 1 27:45
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, everyone needs to read the book fat talk if you're a parent, leaving this guy. Smith. Yeah. And she talks a lot about puberty and how kids are going through puberty, puberty at earlier ages, and how it's there. It's normal for a girl to gain 40 to 50 pounds during puberty. And so that's a lot. That's often the time when parents start to freak out is when they see that rapid body change. And so people need to understand that that's like normal and healthy and part of proper development. And not something to be feared. And even if the kid was unhealthy, or was gaining more weight to this behavior is still just as much coming from an asshole. Yeah, yeah. If I'm saying that, right. You know,
Vinny Welsby 28:39
what I noticed in the comments was people saying, but she's not actually unhealthy. Or a pediatrician hasn't told you to put her on a diet or, you know, and I feel like if he had said in the in the question, she's definitely fat, like she has, she's fat. I think those comments would be different.
Unknown Speaker 29:05
I think you're right.
Vinny Welsby 29:08
Because he said, Oh, she's got a little belly. And so people are like, well, that's okay, because she's not fat, fat. But if it was like, Oh, she's like, I don't know, whatever way you could describe it, then people would be like, you're probably doing the right thing because the child's gonna grow up and end up being like, no fat, fat, fat. Yep,
Speaker 1 29:29
I think I think you're probably right, especially given the people who were commenting on the previous story and how anti fat they were. So yeah,
Vinny Welsby 29:38
there's a cognitive dissonance isn't there? It's like, people are really like, this is unacceptable. But when it comes to someone who is an adult, or who is bigger than it's all of a sudden, this is definitely acceptable. I'm like, right. Why? I don't understand. But it's yeah, yes. Problem is I want to protect kids. But let's do it for adults too. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 30:04
Exactly. And it comes back to the same point. It's like if if, you know, if the person was disabled, or if they were, you know, like a particular age like they would it would be, it would be considered it. You know, you'd be considered an asshole for treating them that way. But yeah, yeah. Because they're fat that people are like, oh, yeah, no, you can tell them that. Yeah. Yeah,
Vinny Welsby 30:36
so are our verdict. My verdict is double asshole. Not that's not that's even a thing. What's your verdict?
Speaker 1 30:43
Yeah, this guy is a real, real asshole. Like, it makes me really upset actually, because I feel so bad for this kid, just because that damage cannot be undone. Like that. That's, that has now you know, put her on that trajectory. And hopefully her mom can help her get off of it. But I don't know, once once you start on that, and then reinforce it through behaviors. It's like it's a slippery slope. The kids do
Vinny Welsby 31:13
it. Yeah. And this post was actually from four years ago. And I, a lot of times people come back and they'll tell us an update, but this guy hasn't told us an update. So probably in 20 years time, they'll be talking to a therapist being like my dad, fuck me up. And, you know, this is what happened. And as well, because, you know, even though the dad's an asshole, that kid probably loves their dad. And so, those words are gonna hold such a big, big weight on that kid's psyche and mind.
Speaker 1 31:49
Oh, yeah, it's gonna tie into how they perceive themselves as being lovable or not. You or not, and it's like, it's a whole it's a whole big piece of baggage. She's just given her.
Vinny Welsby 31:59
Yeah, great parenting Papaw just die. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so next story. Am I the asshole for embarrassing my friends? Oh, word, boyfriend by making him sit on a chair different from everyone else's at dinner. See, what's your initial reaction? Um,
Speaker 1 32:31
I feel like when I read the headline, I was like, I need to hear I need to hear the context of the situation. Because on one hand, it's like, no, but what's the what's the context?
Vinny Welsby 32:44
Yeah, me too. Apart from there was two red flags for me. One using the O word and also making him sit on that chair. And I was like, yes, yeah, that's okay. So here it goes. This happened a few weeks ago, I invited my friends to dinner at my house to celebrate moving into my new house. And my friend Katie asked if she could bring her new boyfriend Dale, so our friend group can finally meet him in person. I said yes, there are two things I have to point out. First, my dining table and chairs are wooden furniture that have been in our family for close to 100 years and have a lot of sentimental value to my family. They used to be at my sister's house, but she asked me if I can take them since her kids tend to jump on them during mealtime and she was scared the furniture might get damaged. I don't have kids and I just got a bigger house or I have space thus I happily took them second Dale is morbidly Oh word. Just fucking hate that phrase. Mobley Oh word. He and then she says how big shoot big he is. And with the measurements, he wouldn't be classed as morbidly Oh word he would be classed as a medium large fat. So just some context there. Given that my dining chairs are wooden and old, I didn't want to risk them not being able to hold Dale's weight, so I prepared a different sturdier chair for him to sit on. I've had a word people sit on my dining chairs before but none as a word as Dale. When Katie saw that I was asking Dale to sit in your chair different from everyone else's. She got livid and told me that I was embarrassing Dale, I was shocked that she would get upset like that in front of everyone. So I stammered an explanation about how my chairs are rolled, and I wasn't sure if they would hold. Katie said that I was being fat phobic, and said that she couldn't be friends with a person like me. They left immediately while the rest of my friends stayed long enough just to finish dinner. And then we called it a night early. Am I the asshole? Like
Speaker 1 34:44
yes and no. Yes and no. What do you think?
Vinny Welsby 34:52
Yes or no? It sounds Yeah, I like to go
Unknown Speaker 34:59
no Go first.
Vinny Welsby 35:01
It sounds like, again, I think we've probably got bits of information missing. What was she saying to Dell when she made him sit on the chair? Obviously, this person has got tons of Antifa attitudes, because the way that she's talking about Dell like, who's huge, I've never had anyone as as fat as down in my house and oh my god, he's just gonna, you know, destroy the place. And like that that attitude is really unkind. But she did think about, not Dale's comfort, the fact that she didn't want her furniture broken and found him an alternative seat. So that was, like, good, good that she was trying to think of something. But then Katie, the girlfriend got livid and told me that I was embarrassing Dell that's probably going to embarrass Dale, like, you know, that I feel like that probably made it into a situation. So the fact that she left and said, I don't want to be friends with you, because you're fat phobic makes me think we're missing some information. Because just offering a chair is not fat phobic. Yeah, I
Speaker 1 36:10
also think like what is standing out to me now having heard you read this, to me, again, is the fact that is the poster. I don't know the gender of the poster. Not that it matters. But the whoever like posted this. That doesn't say they're more concerned about the chairs than like, having like comfortable seating for everybody. You know what I mean? Like, it was written in the context of like, you know what, like, Dale's coming over, and he's bigger. And I know that the, the seating I have isn't going to support so I wanted to bring in a chair that would be comfortable, more comfortable and supportive. Like that, to me would read a lot differently. But the it's really coming from an angle of like, these chairs have been in my family for 100 years, and I don't want to break. You know what I mean? There's, there's just, it's in, like, the framing of it still comes from, like, an anti-fat place, you know. But I do think it's good to think about seating and like people's comfort. And perhaps that could have been a conversation that would have been had like before they got there, would you how would you think that's the what what do you think is the best way to approach that?
Vinny Welsby 37:28
If I was the op op stands for original poster? If I was the OP, I might have quietly brought Dale, you know, when no one else was like listening and just be like, Oh, Dale, by the way, I've got this rickety as furniture and and so I found a chair that is I think might be might might work for you. Let me know what you think. Is that okay with you? Or, or I might say to everyone, oh, hey, everyone, these these, these chairs are like 100 years old. And so I found some other chairs here if you don't feel comfortable in these raggedy ass chairs, and just made it for everyone to choose if they want to risk breaking 100 year old chairs because I think most people were like, well, I don't want to sit on your fucking antique chairs. I don't want to break them because you love them more than you love me as a friend. So I'll just sit on the floor or whatever, you know. So there's ways that you can do that with more like kindness and like, thinking about the way that you asked me about chairs, like you just say when we sit down is that chair, okay? And like it's not a big deal. But imagine if you said to me say we're in a restaurant and we've got a new friend come in. And you said is that chair, okay? And then the other friend was like, Oh my God, you're embarrassing Vinnie by asking them is the chair. Okay? You're fat phobic for asking. vinius a chair. Okay. And we'd both be like, you're the one making the scene.
Speaker 1 39:01
Well, exactly, right. Like if we treat bodies as something to be ashamed of, then we're just perpetuating anti fatness but it like depends, right? Because it's like, Dale obviously knows he's fat like, yeah. But he might not be like fat positive. Right. So it was conversations that you want to have like more discreetly because you don't know how he feels about it. Whereas with you like, I know you're comfortable with? Yeah, like your fatness. So yeah, I don't you know, it's like for me to be like, Hey, are you okay with that chair? Yeah, it's a conversation I you know, you'd have we would have Yeah, exactly.
Vinny Welsby 39:39
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So I know this person just sounds like a little bit of a dick. So you know the fact that that the friend said, I don't want to be friends with you because you're fat phobic. I mean, she is fat phobic. I'm guessing it's a shitty who knows. The Opie is fat phobic. And I bet you their own anti fat bias has been slipping out in other ways. And this was probably the final straw for Katie. And she's protecting Dale. But maybe she did. Yeah. And
Speaker 1 40:10
I think the way that she's framing it up is like, Oh, I just I was I didn't want to miss it on the chair and break it. But really, I think there's something else going on there. So yeah, it's interesting, because I read it and think that the poster the original puppy OP is a man. Oh, who interesting. Isn't that weird? How my brain goes to?
Vinny Welsby 40:29
Yeah, must be. I don't know. Yeah, that's funny. And what was there was something else I was gonna say about this, but it's escaped, escaped from my head. So I can't remember, but I'm sure it'll come back. So the verdict people said, what do we think some other people said? Because it's an adult that they're talking about? Who's
Speaker 1 40:53
that feel like they're gonna they're gonna say, they're not an asshole. Yes,
Vinny Welsby 40:57
that's what people said. Not a not an asshole. The top comment says, not not the asshole. Ironically enough, his girlfriend definitely made it worse by making a big stink of it. It's not like it's a mystery to anyone that Dale is morbidly Oh, word. There's nothing fat phobic about that. Someone else said my clock partner is fat. And he and I work as a team to always ensure that he has a sturdy chair. He'd be so embarrassed if he sat in a chair and it broke under him. Literally his worst nightmare, not the asshole. Yeah. And that is it like it literally those like I remember a chair, a bench breaking underneath me. And it's such a core memory because the bench broke. It was rotten wood. And everyone was just there just on the floor laughing at me. And like if that happened to me now, I'd be fucking laughing. But at the time, it was like, so shameful and traumatizing and being like, that was kind of like the final straw. Right? Right. That's it. I need to get in because I'm broken furniture over here. But the thing is, a lot of furniture isn't made for human bodies. Yeah, so you can understand. Kate, you wanting to protect Dale?
Speaker 1 42:18
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And it would have been awkward if he didn't have another chair to sit on as well. So it was kind of a bad situation overall.
Vinny Welsby 42:29
i Oh, here's the thing I was gonna say is if you are having someone over to your house, and so she said Dale can come it wasn't a surprise that Dale was there. And she already knew that Dale had a bigger body. Imagine inviting someone over to your house who you like come over for dinner. And you know that they're a vegan, and then you make dinner and you're like, I've got beef tips like you made or beef, whatever they were called. And nothing else. You'd be the dickhead because you invite that person. And you might say I hate vegans, like fuck them, not agree with them. But then you didn't provide any food, any accommodation for that person. Like one time my dad my dad was a dickhead her my sister had a boyfriend and he was vegetarian. And so he had him he was around for dinner. I don't know where this was, I think this was Christmas dinner and my dad just pulled out a jar of sauerkraut and slammed it on the table and said that's your dinner to my sister's then boyfriend to say like, being really rude and been like, I've thought of you and you can just eat some cabbage or whatever sauerkraut is, I think it's cabbage. Like, it's that type of thing of, you know, aloe is not like this, you know if you're going to invite someone at least think a little bit of about accommodating them. But she did. She did because she got a chair. So she did but I think she
Unknown Speaker 43:54
was more concerned about the chairs. Like
Vinny Welsby 43:58
such a big house she she put the chairs in some other room and get some proper furniture not some fucking shit. Yeah. 100 year old rickety. Yes, things.
Speaker 1 44:05
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Vinny Welsby 44:08
So my final verdict is asshole ish. Like, oh is
Unknown Speaker 44:17
like, like soft launch asshole.
Vinny Welsby 44:21
Asshole with an asterix of like, but it's complicated. Yeah. The thing is, like most people I always think you know, most people in life are not trying to be assholes. They're trying to be be okay rather know. So, Okay, you ready for the last one? Yeah. Could be the last one. We could do more if you want whatever you want. This will be the last one. Okay, so would I be the asshole for imposing a diet on my wife? If she wants to travel with me, okay, so initial reaction, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 45:07
Oh my god. This poor woman. Yeah.
Vinny Welsby 45:13
Okay, story is friends have invited me to Japan to teach ESL English second language. And I'm going to apply through the proper channels this upcoming autumn, I meet any, in fact exceed the qualification. So I'm not worried about that. But I know Japan has a specific culture that looks down upon, oh word people I've already seen started to lose weight, and this person has lost some weight. They mentioned how much in preparation because I want to be accepted within what that what their society desires. My wife can come with me, she can apply for a specific specific visa to live with their spouse while they work. I want her to come with me. She wants to come with me. But I want her to lose weight with me. And I'm not sure if I'd be the asshole for imposing a diet if she's to come with me to give an idea and that he talks about his weight. So he's a small fat person, not really No, I don't think he's fat. And she would be a small fat, maybe medium fat person, if I want to tell her if she can get to. And then he mentioned some weight, which is a lot lower. If she gets to this weight by Christmas. I'll let her go with me. I have some rare control of the situation because I need to sign off on paperwork to allow her to declare me as a spouse in the application. So would I be the asshole?
Speaker 1 46:46
What do you think the fuck? Yes.
Vinny Welsby 46:52
This guy, I swear. The fact he's got this, the control thing at the end, I have this rare control where I can lord over my wife that she can come and be with me her husband, unless she decides to become a thin person. I'm like, What is wrong with people?
Speaker 1 47:19
I want to say I'm shocked. But I know I'm not because I know this happens. But like why are you even married?
Vinny Welsby 47:28
Yeah, yeah. And actually one of the first comments one of the top comments says let's read it. Am I the only one that gets a vibe that he actually doesn't want her to come? Because he wants to see if he can pick himself up a hot new wife. Yeah, no shit. Yeah, yeah. The fact that he's like, I want to adhere with a Japan's society desires. It's like, why? What? Why? Because you're gonna pick up people. Yeah. Like, who were you?
Speaker 1 48:03
I think I think he doesn't. I think this. Like, this makes him even more of an asshole. But I think he doesn't want to be made to feel ashamed for having a bigger wife.
Vinny Welsby 48:12
Oh, yeah. I hadn't thought about it like that.
Speaker 1 48:18
It's his only then. Like, he doesn't want to have to wrestle with that. So he's like, if I can have a socially acceptable size wife then. Yeah. Oh,
Vinny Welsby 48:35
and that is the like the deep dark fear of so many people that their spouse is secretly kind of ashamed of them or doesn't want to be with them. And and I know, that was my experience I've shared on the show before that, for those who listening summer show is that my last long term boyfriend, we've split up like, I don't know, six years ago, we were together for six years. And he confessed to me that he was less attracted to me because I had put on phenomenal amount of weight. And it was like my deepest, darkest fears were coming true. And at that moment, I vow to him that I would become good and get on a diet and become smaller again. I was always fat when we were dating so and I'd put on like hardly any weight. So like, fuck this guy. But now Now I'm out of it. And I'm like, wow, he was really struggling with anti fatness and his own self esteem. And, and when we split up, I said to him, What was that all about? And I was kind of like getting curious, asking questions. And basically what he said was that when we go to work functions, I want people to be jealous of me. I have this kind of trophy partner, you know, I want it. It's like, unreal, you know, not human version of a person in order to make me feel better about my self esteem. And I was just like, you know, thanks for that. Thanks. You know, I, you know, I understand your motivations. It's really
Speaker 1 50:19
common, unfortunately. Yeah. You know, and there's a lot of people out there that will love you unconditionally. And then there's a lot of people out there that only want a thinner person. Yeah.
Vinny Welsby 50:33
And I've done whole podcast episodes on this. And so if this is like, if you're, if you're feeling really triggered by this, and you're like, Oh, my God, why is my spouse like this guy and thinking that I should be thinner, then I'll link to some Instagram posts or something in the show notes to give us as a resource. But a lot of times, to all the times if you use do struggle or self esteem, your partner says, I'm attracted to you, we just have to believe that they do. Because a lot of times they are because fat people are fucking a gorgeous, sexy, wonderful humans. And a lot of people are attracted to us.
Speaker 1 51:12
Well, and physical attraction can be is, is influenced by our environment, right? Like we're, we're conditioned to find certain bodies physically attractive because of the way that they've been presented to us. And that's something that we can change, like, we can change our perception of bodies and what we find attractive. And so if someone is struggling with that, like if they're in a relationship, and they're, you know, their partner's body has changed. And they're struggling with attraction, if that's something that can be changed, that's not set in stone, but the person has to be willing to face their anti fatness in order to make that change. And so, you know, assuming that there's still like that emotional connection there between the two people. Yeah.
Vinny Welsby 52:03
And that's the thing is, like, a lot of times we if we do hear, like, I'm not attracted to you, because of your fatness, we hear that's a me problem. And therefore I need to change versus really, that's a problem for them to tackle that they're having this bias dictate their level of love or care or attraction to the person that they own a relationship with. So for my ex, that was a him problem. Like, you saw your shit out. And, you know, he ended up going and dating another fat person after me so clearly, he fucking likes a fat ease. Yeah, I don't know if I deal with it. You like five A's? So deal with it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, mine was 60s FOB Dan with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1 53:00
this this guy, this woman like they were better off not together, in my opinion, because if he like is thinking this is a good idea, like to the extent that he went and posted it on a message board. Like,
Vinny Welsby 53:16
wow, this person did delete the post, but I managed to find the original text. So I think that person was like, Oh, I fucked up. Because the verdict? Well, actually, no, we don't know the verdict, but because he deleted the post, but we could still see the comments. The comments were that he's an asshole.
Speaker 1 53:39
Okay, well, that's positive. Yeah. That's one it's so weird how sometimes people are so like, I am almost surprised given how anti fat everybody was on the other posts. So
Vinny Welsby 53:52
well, let me let me double check. I'm doubting myself now.
Speaker 1 53:59
Maybe the other comments, maybe because their perception is like I feel like it was almost like because in the other situation like with the daughter in law, people it was like concern for her well being and health. Yes,
Unknown Speaker 54:11
this was like strictly about like attraction or achieving a certain size. I don't know.
Vinny Welsby 54:23
Yeah, oh, someone said, Watch her drop. x pounds instantly the amount of pounds that he what he weighs? Yeah, she's gonna drop him and go off to Japan or whatever. Yeah, yeah, everyone. Everyone is saying pretty much you're the asshole. And then some people are saying there's fat people in Japan and then someone says there definitely is a culture of fat phobia. That's more of a in Japan. And that's, that's absolutely true. I know what of my, someone I used to know who lived in Japan. They were from America and she she wasn't fat. She was maybe what people would say mid size, you know, some not thin, thin, thin, but she wasn't fat. And she couldn't find clothes anywhere and people. She had to import them basically the
Speaker 1 55:21
exact same thing. Yeah. Make overt comments like they'll just Yeah, mental in your body. Yeah, it's just a different culture.
Vinny Welsby 55:31
So, yeah, so there's those other things as well to consider of like, maybe he was just worried about what the people would say about his wife, and he was worried that she would be sad. I don't don't think
Speaker 1 55:42
I think he's more worried about his own perception is that
Vinny Welsby 55:47
I mean, I try to be generous in spirit towards this guy. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1 55:50
not even giving him any. I'm not giving him any leeway there. I feel like it was entirely about what are people gonna think of me if I have a bigger wife?
Vinny Welsby 55:58
Yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully he's this his wife has dropped X amount of pounds, which is His body weight from her life, because he sounds like a ding dong. Yeah, and hopefully you got food
Unknown Speaker 56:09
poisoning on the plane or something.
Vinny Welsby 56:15
I hope that too. Did you hear about the did you hear about the person who shoot on a plane and the plane had to land because the shit was so bad? Was that my husband? No, I'm kidding. I was like, had explosive diarrhea or something and it was rolling down the aisles of the of the plane. Flying is just so awful. I know. I feel like that's the type of thing that would happen
Speaker 1 56:41
to me. We should have put a trigger warning before you said that. Well,
Vinny Welsby 56:45
that was shit stuff. Yeah. Cuz anyone was eating or
not eating now if they were eating. Thanks. Thanks, Vinny. I think people who listen to my podcasts are used to me talking about chips. That's one your people by the way. We have Vinnie Vinnie on they talk about shit and piss. disgusting, disgusting human.
Speaker 1 57:12
Come for the conversations around fat liberation, stay for the conversations around shit.
Vinny Welsby 57:19
Yeah. You know what? That's so funny. You mentioned that because when I was on the panel, we were talking about like, stupid ways that we were trying to get thin and I was like, oh, is anyone shit themselves? And then the panel house was like, you asked the audience four times as anyone shit themselves and eventually someone's like, yeah, I shit myself. And we were like, all laughing and I was like, wow, I'm really interested in shit. Like, this is like, I should put that on my hobby on my Tinder profile. Like talking about our friends. Yeah, you left yet you're well known shit lover, aren't you so
Unknown Speaker 57:59
positive
Vinny Welsby 58:04
would love it? If you put that on your Instagram bio.
Unknown Speaker 58:10
Probably got a little more followers than I have.
Vinny Welsby 58:11
Yeah, cuz you're gonna like what is this new movement? And you're like, I just shit everywhere. Just fucking shit on the street. I don't care. That would be just on it. Just Own the shit. Yes. Well, it's been fun to talk about the mid asshole. And both be on each other shows.
Speaker 1 58:31
Yeah, that was it was it was great. And I hope that people know that. You know? I don't know who like, what is the psyche behind someone who thinks I'm gonna post. I'm gonna ask people if I'm an awesome like, I would just never. Like I would almost want to sit down with someone and be like, Why did you post that on there? Like, why do you want random people on the internet to give you an opinion like that is
Vinny Welsby 58:56
because they want like, they want unbiased. So people in their life will be you know, like, if I came to you and I was like, I did this. And actually no, you probably would say, No, you're the asshole if I did do something asshole ish. But probably you would be more supportive of me if I did do something. dickish but then if I put something on the internet saying what a strangest thing. They they don't know anything about me. In the first place, right? Yeah. But
Unknown Speaker 59:25
that's why why would you want that feedback though? Like Yeah, cuz
Vinny Welsby 59:28
you know, because then you'd be like, Oh, God, I'm a terrible person. Yeah. No, because these people think they're in the right. They kind of know that they're in the right and they want other people to say because a lot of the time they get you're not the asshole apart from the people who were oblivious like these assholes we spoke about today. And they get like a delete that post. Because they're like, oh,
Speaker 1 59:52
I need to go and explore this thread further. I've never I had never even heard of that. So yeah, no, it's a good one. hours of entertainment. by myself, yeah, exactly
Vinny Welsby 1:00:02
right low on self esteem. Just go on the asana. Find all the muscles. I'm like, Wow, I'm not that much of a dickhead. Yeah yeah, that's okay bye