Episode 145 Transcript

You're listening to the Fierce Fatty podcast episode 145. Legends that fatphobia stole. Let's do it.

Unknown Speaker 0:22

Hello, welcome to the Episode Hello. Welcome to the podcast nice to see to see you nice if you're British get that reference. How's life? Are you doing? What's going on with you? What's going on with me as I have moved apartments and there is apartments facing my apartment. And I've witnessed a person in the apartment opposite me. I'm having a beautiful friendship with the seagull. Yes, this person opens their window and the seagull come and lands on the windowsill like seven floors up eight floors up. And they feed the Seagull and then another seagulls hanging up the top. So I think maybe multiple seagulls are being fed. And I feel like I'm in a David Attenborough documentary. Because also there's a tree outside my new apartment that an owl lives in. And so the crows of the neighborhood are like this motherfucker. An owl is in my motherfucking tree and go bananas when they see the owl. They're not going wild today. No coring, but I'm like I love the you know everyone's like, there's a fucking owl chat everybody in the house like, dude, I'm trying to sleep like I'm not turn or chill. So yeah, totally in nature right now. I'm not in. I'm in. I'm in downtown Vancouver so I'm not in nature. But I see you can see a tree so it's pretty amazing. Yeah, so if you're watching the video, you might recognize that it looks different I don't have any of my paintings up there anything yet so yeah, I got someone from TaskRabbit I don't know if you've ever heard of TaskRabbit before but it's a website where you can hire people to do any type of thing that you want. Think within reason like so I got a couple of people to come and help me move. And then also I got someone to do some handiwork around the place

Unknown Speaker 2:34

unfortunately this guy that did the handiwork right feels like he fucked up everything in my wardrobe right I asked him to put a pole in the pole is wonky.

Unknown Speaker 2:54

I asked him to put so there was a shelf only in the wardrobe and and so I said can you just move that up a little bit? So you know, we put the pole in and the guy was like really tall and so he's put the shelf like four inches from the ceiling so I can't reach it or put anything in there and most of the space and he's done that with the whole room close it too. And then like I asked him to hang my my vacuum my Dyson it's wonky and hang a curtain pole and he did half of it and there was like no context this is this is a can't do this. He was saying that the curtain pole it was curtain poles fault and I was like oh okay, but no, I don't think so. Because then like a couple days later the whole thing just fell down Oh, yeah, so I've got another one another another person coming out in a week to finish the jobs and stuff and yeah, so fix the jobs I actually rehang the pole myself and also put the in my closet put the the shelf where it should be but I did an imperfect job the shelf is wonky so so now that now the poll is still looks longer because the shelf above it is like slightly on an angle so yeah, so I'm going to wait for someone else to do it because it's just too much for my brain. I can do it like I bought a bought some drill bits and shit so but it's just not worth my worth my brainpower and I think it's about it's about 40 to 60 bucks an hour ish, depending on the skill of the handy person or that you're someone's like a professional but it's it's more, but I mean, it's good to know. Anyway, so today's episode it's pretty heavy. And so if let me change that word because the word heavy implies bad thing. are heavy or hurt are bad or are are difficult. So let's let's change that phrasing. It's pretty difficult to hear maybe for some people, for a lot of people, maybe there is talk about eating disorders. There's talk about deaths because this is we're talking about here in this episode, famous people who died, potentially at the hands of fat phobia. So almost everyone in this episode are people who have died, who have died, potentially tragically died from died too young. died because of maybe because of fat phobia. And also talking about fat phobic stuff people say about fat celebrities when they die. Talking about diet pills, we're talking about stomach amputation and squeezing surgery. We're talking about facelift. We're talking about there might be mentioned of calories. Maybe there might be mentioned of weight. I don't think I'll probably take the weight out depending on this, talking about mental health stuff. So if any of that is not feeling good, then skip the episode. And come see me next week. Just a quick update on last week's episode talking about the vacation. And the vacation Shawn. We had lots of people complete the survey. If you haven't completed the survey, please do so. Because then also you'll get to let us know where you want to go. When I say us I mean me and and also it it means that your email will be in the system so we can let you know when it's announced. So far people's top three favorite destinations top for Ireland. You choose Ireland is because Irish mommy, and you want to go see the Irish mommy, Ireland, Italy. And no New Orleans. Yeah, New Orleans and coastal Maine. Also on there was lower down on the list was Dominican Republic. and Mexico. The reason why I bring those up is remember last week, I said you know my ideas about this vacation. It's really important for me that it's accessible. And the fat fat folks who've who've hosted vacations, who are fat, fat influences have tended to pick locations that were the top requested, which were also happened to be deeply inaccessible. So for example, somewhere like Italy, because we have in Canada, and also the US we have ATA is called something else in in, in Canada, American Disabilities Act. And so we've got like this set of standards that we that we know that certain places will adhere to and what they actually mean. Other countries don't necessarily have that. And also say somewhere like Italy, if we're going to be going to Italy and Rome and a lot of places a cobbled streets, a lot of places. It's walking tours, all of the things is walking tours. And so I asked folks, what are your excess? What your What are your accessibility needs a few folks said one person said that they would need a mobility device and someone else a couple of other people said we don't want long walking tours. And so because of an as well, because of what I'm looking to do is more chill I want you know, beach time relaxing go and maybe doing an activity that doesn't involve climbing a mountain and things like that, right? It's really important for me to be accessible so and so I really want to know if we did choose between Mexico and the Dominican Republic and there's a reason why I'm using those two specifically is because both of those locations, the locations that have been previously scattered out have been a body positive seal of approval of fat positive seal of approval. Now I'm working with the tour operators to absolutely nail down what that means but so far no activities where there is a weight limit under 500 pounds. rooms that can be on the first floor with showers that you can walk or wheel into large towels in the in the hotel. I said What does large mean? Let's clarify what large means because you know thing people like that towel is huge. And then we put you know if that person uses and it's like, oh, it's a smaller base, it's more Wasserman. cloth. Yeah, so also, people who are running the tours have also had sensitivity training. So that sounds good, right? That sounds good. Versus if we went to somewhere like Italy, that there would not be any of that stuff, right. And here's another thing, Italy, or anywhere in Europe is a lot more expensive than Dr. or Mexico, or Costa Rica makeup, maybe. So, but I'm wondering, you know, I'm gonna do what you want to do. And so if you're like, Vinny, I don't care about all that fat shit, you know, I'm fat, but I just want to go and, you know, eat some pizza, and whatever, in Italy, you know, go and ride on some Italian decks or whatever, you know, that's what you're interested in. And the whole accessibility thing isn't even, or even the sensitivity training and the fact positivity angle is not of interest to you, then let me know. But if that is important, please, please let me know. And so that means go into the the survey, I'll put it in the show notes. And letting me know that Mexico, or Dominican Republic is where you want to go. If we see that moving up, the it's in the top 10. Right now, if we see that moving up, for where you want to go, then we'll know that that is important for folks. And if you have accessibility requirements or needs, please email me and let me know fattie at first fatty.com It's really important. So I can understand what is needed. And also the thing is, you know, folks could say, Absolutely, we have accessibility needs, but we don't know if those those folks are gonna come on the trip, right? Because this is all very preliminary. So the more information that we have, the better. All right, so, I mean, I'm biased. I'm like, I wanted to make it fat positive. And relaxing on the beach, you know, swimmin sand, Paul, love it. And, you know, the Italy thing is very kind of walking every day, walking, walking, walking, walking, some more walking, walking, walking, eating a pizza, does Morcombe so it's a totally different type of vibe. And a lot of people you know, like that. And I'm not saying that that's a bad thing. Like, I probably want to do that too. But it's not aligning with my vision. So let me know you might be like, Fuck your vision Vinny. We want Italian we don't Italy we want somewhere else as well.

Unknown Speaker 12:47

So let me know go to the server knows anyway, so So know if you're not gonna listen to this episode, because you think it might trigger you can go now, leave. Enjoy your day. But let's get into Legends at fatphobia style. So just a kind of this is something that I've been thinking about because I watched the new bathroom and Elvis movie. I really enjoyed it, even though it felt I feel like it goes against my better judgment because it was very there was a nod to black culture which really Elvis just stole black culture. And you know, there wasn't a whole lot of there wasn't a lot of it, but I was like I'm only you know, there's a nod and Tom Hanks is wearing a fat suit. So I guess my better judgment I watched it and I enjoyed it a lot. Which is I don't know whatever my brain enjoyed it. But it made me think about is about Elvis obviously. How the how we talk about Elvis, you know, fat Elvis. Elvis died. Either the stories that we hear about why Elvis died, and the fact that he was he was so fat is what people say he was so fat, and he was just eating so much food and because he was so fat, and he he died on the toilet basically. And basically, and I think as well as well. There's another urban legend around someone else. But basically being fat and taking drugs is is what folks a lot of times talk about. And it's very what I was reading stuff about Elvis the words that people were using, gorging, you know, out of control, locked himself in the way in his room just so heavy and things like that. And I was just like, shit, like, That's fucked up. And in the film, you know, his an in real life is his mum. She died young and she was fat. Let's say she wasn't fat, fat. She was more kind of like a small fat person. But that was kind of I really liked seeing that seeing that that Elvis had that as a part of his life is a fat person. in his life, and then all that shit that he got anyway, so it made me think about all of the other celebrities that have died, potentially at the hands of fat phobia or maybe in very much more likely at the hands of fat phobia. And the they don't necessarily need to be fat because we know fat phobia affects everyone. Of course it affects fat folks. Much more and more, you know, if you have other marginalized identities, even more fat phobia does affect everyone. So I want to start off with Amy Winehouse. So Amy Winehouse, I love a bit of when Amy Winehouse music, I really wish that she didn't die, so that she could have made more music for me to listen to so very selfishly. But I remember when Amy Winehouse was first coming around, and I remember seeing her image in a, you know, women's magazine. And this is when she before she was actually famous. It was kind of like, Oh, look at this new up and coming up and coming singer. And she was described described as like plus size or curvy. And she ABS she wasn't she was just kind of she was straight size with it with a tiny little bit of kind of a no, not even a roll like she had big breasts. And that's a lot of times is people equate that to being curvy, anyway. And then obviously her body changed. And then people had opinions to say when she had a bigger body. And people had opinions to say when she had a smaller body. So let me quote from this article, which I'm going to buy from pitchfork. And it's we need to talk about Amy Winehouse is eating disorder and its role in her death. So let me quote from this. I'll link to that in the show notes. There is a tacitly accepted set of rules that our culture follows when it comes to women in the spotlight. They're required to be thin, they do not eat a normal diet and that in itself is seen as normal, not even dangerous. disordered eating is so normalized in our culture, especially in celebrity culture, that a few people even acknowledge that it is not healthy. And few people even acknowledged that it's not healthy and very potentially fatal. Eating Disorders fall in line with what society expects of a celebrity. We love thinner, so much yet we know we're supposed to be repulsed by the means of achieving that fit thinness. It's easier to scrutinize their lifestyle or their partying than ever examined the toll of staying under a certain weight. Amy Winehouse learned those ugly rules of womanhood early as footage from a safe Cambodia's devastating much praise documentary, Amy reveals a teenaged Winehouse snacking with her friends laments between mouthfuls that she's a pig and cannot help herself. In a voiceover during the sequence. The singers mother Janice Janis Winehouse recounts the moment of a young Amy tells her mother about discovering a great new diet, eating and then vomiting that allows her to eat without gaining weight. That section goes on to say that her mom and her dad kind of weren't alarmed by this and the way that Amy was talking about her body because they just thought it was normal teenager stuff, which, you know, that makes sense. But also, it sounds alarming to me. But you know, I've got many years of hindsight, maybe at the time, I would have been like, oh, anyway, continuing this casual dismissal from her parents. The first mention of Amy Winehouse is eating disorder is wrenching, and comes almost halfway into the film. For many viewers. This may be the first time they've ever heard about it. Winehouse is eating disorder, as well documented as her struggles with alcohol and drug addiction were the tiny little fact of her severe, untreated decade long eating disorder was rarely mentioned. When her fineness was mocked in the media, it was almost always with the implication that Hey, Alex are always skinny little wrecks, if a puffy face was ever evaluated, and it was because every aspect of her physical appearance was eviscerated during the height of the media's obsession with her. It was through the lens of someone looking for signs of alcohol addiction, which commonly causes bloating in the face, and not signs of self induced vomiting. So what they're talking about there is you can have someone with someone who might be vomiting, a lot might have in gorged or enlarged or puffy salivary glands, and they are kind of on your face underneath your ear. Kind of kind of like yeah, where you were, you'd know that no, yes. salivary glands if you think about it in your, in your mouth at the back. Actually, we know we've got we've got two foot. We've got some at the front and then some at the back, right? Anyway and so it's kind of like a bit on your jaw. And so what they're saying here is that people were like, Oh, look, her face is puffy even though she's thin because it's alcohol, but not realizing that it might be her Ed. Continuing yet, Amy Winehouse is eating disorder wasn't simply yet another bad decision. Because here they're saying that, you know, oh, look, look at Amy Winehouse, that she just making bad decisions left, right and center. The environmental and genetic factors at play in wine houses childhood and adolescence, adolescence put her at extremely high risk for developing an eating disorder and the lack of early intervention education and stable guidance meant the disease was able to firmly take root and flourish as she was put in higher and higher stress situations. Yeah, and not only higher and higher stress situate situations like say if she had a an average career she was you know, working in an office and she had high stress situations. She was in the public eye and exactly that word that they used eviscerated, eviscerated her appearance. And yeah, according to the National Association for anorexia nervosa and associated disorders, quote, there isn't one conclusive cause of eating disorders, multiple factors are involved. This is genetics, metabolism for psychological issues such as control coping skills, trauma, personality factors, family issues, and social issues, such as a culture that promotes sickness, and media that transmits this message. So this is important to note is that it's complicated, right? Eds are complicated. But here's one thing to think about. I think it's very rare that someone who has an eating disorder happens to be fat positive. No, not for others for themselves. I think what the one thing is when you know, can they be fat positive towards others? And that's, I'd say that much more likely, because they can probably say, Absolutely, this person looks great. But what if we looked at that internalized fat phobia in themselves? And how much are they struggling with that? Everyone has weight bias everyone? Even me? So it goes goes without saying that also those with with EDS have weight bias because

Unknown Speaker 22:43

we've been raised in a society and been given messages that says fatness is not good, right. And you would have to be pretty spectacular to not absorb any of that information. Not even spectacular, like, I'm sure it's happened, you know, that's probably most of the places that it could have happened. But, you know, on the whole, generally speaking, we are, you know, we all have that bias. Same way that we're all racist and ableist. And, you know, just goes with having a human brain. Okay, continuing when one house has many visits to treatment centers and her many attempts to go clean, all center and recovering from drug and alcohol abuse, but they seemingly never address a CO CO morbid eating disorder, despite the fact that it was ruinous to her her health. And was the disease that she had been suffering from the longest amount of time. Yeah, absolutely. And, in the in the s some other things here, it seems like with with a lot of folks is if someone that happens to be curvy, or chubby, or is I don't even need to be is people saying you need to lose weight and a lot of celebrities are told they need to lose weight for for whatever reason, because of fat phobia. And the framing of that initial you need to lose weight almost always seems to be unless a person who's already very small, seems to be a positive thing. You know, like, especially in fatter bodied people. Oh, well, we were doing something good to become thinner and then it got out of control. And it's like, Well, why is it that you have to have a smaller body for it to be quote out of control. And why was it good when they had a bigger body and why is it now bad? Now they have a smaller body and it's because of fat phobia. Right. Okay, Amy. Amy Winehouse is official cause of death was alcohol poisoning, but this can be understood as the equivalent of someone with AIDS who have who has died from complications from pneumonia. Similar to the way HIV compromises the quality of body's ability to fight infection. Bulimia damages the body to the point where it is no longer able to keep up basic functions. He's more susceptible to external threats. A doctor interviewed in the film describes the White House's death as a combination of alcohol poisoning, poisoning and the weakened state of her body due to an eating disorder. But that acid assertion never made it into the official cause of death statement released to the public, after Whitehouse is passing. So that the article goes on to like, what if it was, what if we were more aware of the fact that it wasn't just alcohol or drugs that Amy was struggling with? It was also an ED. And where did that come from? How did that start? Why was Amy calling herself a pig when she was eating? And telling her parents that she's got this new great diet? Why was that not seen as alarming? At the time? You know, because she was, you know, ever so slightly? A little bit curvy, you know, again, I might not really, but you know, maybe was it because it was like, Well, you know, she could stand to be thinner, so why not? You know, and then, in that moment, perhaps, if her parents weren't invested in diet culture, or fat phobia, maybe her parents would have and it's not a parent's fault, but maybe her parents would have said, Darling, why is it that you want to be thinner? What's going on? Why is it you're calling yourself a pig? Why do you think that you need to be a pig to eat, you know, and have that support there? Amy died 23rd of July 2011, age 27.

Unknown Speaker 26:49

Okay, next, Carrie Fisher. So, I wasn't aware of this. I got a message from a follower who said

Unknown Speaker 26:59

I could write a sonnet sonnet about this, but Carrie Fisher, her mental illnesses were well managed with meds but she gained weight. They quote needed her to be thinner to play general layer. So it's assumed she went off her meds to lose weight and use other less safe drugs to even out and it is very well may be what killed her. Because we couldn't have a fat general layer. It breaks my heart. Every time I think about it. So Carrie Fisher spoke about this spoke about the what she had to do to play. Princess Leia, General Leia, I don't I don't watch Star Wars, whatever it is, is it Star Wars? Some people are like, Oh, really. So she talked about she spoke about this more recently. So there's a good housekeeping article, titled, I'm in a business where the only thing that matter are weight and appearance. So Carrie reveals she was pressured to lose more than 35 pounds for the new film. And the new film being the second film that she was in in like the 80s. So they don't want to hire all of me. Only about three quarters, nothing changes. It's an appearance driven thing. I'm in a business where the only thing that matters is weight and appearance. That is so messed up. They might as well say get younger because that's how easy it is. Carrie Brown, Carrie Fisher was on say Carrie Broderick, Carrie Fisher, the things I've read about her since doing this research. I'm like, she was fucking badass, because she was talking how all this stuff is bullshit. And I'm loving it. So Stephen Colbert asked her about about that article that she did. And she added the first movie I had, I guess you'd still call it baby fat. The first movie I had, I guess you'd call it still baby fat. I'd like to call it that. But it was probably just fat. So I went to a fat farm where they harvest fat. She said a couple of other celebrities were there as well having their fat harvest. By the way, she didn't appear to be fat at all. From when I'm looking at the images, I think at the time she was seen as a sex symbol. Continuing meanwhile, Carrie previously revealed she had to lose two and a half stone to reprise the world in Star Wars The Force Awakens. She said nothing changes. It's an appearance driven thing. Oh yeah, I've read that quote already. And then she says when I do lose the weight, I don't like that. It makes me feel good about myself. It's not who I am. My problem is that they talk to me like an actress, but I hear them like a writer because she was also a writer. And so she was So she had to diet and stuff and so she also at the same time was dealing with mental health issues and coming off those drugs helped her become thinner temporarily. Then she was in another Star Wars movie in 2015. The Force Awakens, and people were talking shit about her body when she has co stars who are the same age as her Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford. Everyone was like, Oh, Mark Hamill is so nice. He's such a great guy and Harrison Ford is so hunky and Carrie Fisher Fisher. She hasn't aged well, when she looked exactly what she you know, she should look like as a human being at the age that she was. And so quote, Carrie Fisher has had it up to here with body shaming discussions about how she no longer looks like she did in the 1980s When Princess Leia squirmed around in a gold bikini while in prison prisons by Jabba the Hutt. In a series of tweets the former Star Wars Star, now Best Selling Author took to social media to address some of the body shaming comments being made unfavorably comparing Leia in The Force Awakens to her smelter appearance 30 plus years ago, in The Return of the Jedi, she these are the tweets she said, please stop debating about whether or not I aged well. Ultimately, it hurt through all three of my feelings. My body hasn't aged well as I have, as it hasn't aged as well as I have. So Carrie Fisher died of a heart attack. Her daughter stated that Fisher battled drug addiction and mental illness her entire life. She ultimately died of it, she was purposefully open in all of her work about the social stigmas around this these diseases. And oh my mum, she'd want her death to encourage people to be open about their struggles. And as well. I wonder, you know, how much of data to know 2015 When she was in this in this in this movie? She died in 20 16/27 of December age 60. did how did that that affect her? You know she's she's got these these tweets. And she's she's quite sassy, like fuck off sort of thing. But she's also saying I haven't aged well, I mean, I don't know about that statement, because what is what is aging? Well, what does that mean? And so did that then spur her to come off? Her medications for that helped her with her mental health? Did that also help with her? Maybe taking some diet pills or something? I don't know. I don't know. What happened when she did take diet pills. And I did an episode on diet pills. And they really really are very, very dangerous as well alongside yo yo dieting weight cycling, which is basically just dieting is really not good for your heart. Yeah, so just something to think about there. All right, so Cass Elliot, Cass Elliot, if you don't know was a singer, or the lead singer. Maybe the Mamas and Papas? Which was a band from the 70s 19 1970s I think I sang all the all the trees. Let me do it properly. Let me find out exactly what they sang. California dream and I think that's what they did like Google Google and Googling, Googling, Googling songs. California Dreaming Yeah. Dream a Little Dream of me seeing that one, as well. See the lyrics of California Jim. All the leaves. Leaves a brown and the sky is gray and the sky is gray. I've been for I've been for a walk on Awareness Day on a winter's day, right? Because a lot. Now you're like, Oh, I guess I know who you're talking about. In case you don't know. Or maybe you don't even recognize that song.

Unknown Speaker 34:41

Right. So quoting from an article from voc. Mama Cass Elliot died almost 50 years ago, but her memory is still obscured by fat phobia. It was a death heard about round the world or at least around California. On July 29 1974, Mama Cass Cass Elliot, one of the most memorable and charismatic members of the Los Angeles based folk rock group, the Mamas and Papas died in her sleep in a London apartment at the age of 32. There are too many similar stories to count about musical legends passing away before they time Jimmy Janice, Kurt, and all the other members of the morbidly named 27 Club come to mind but Elliott's death stands out in part because of the baseless rumor that has persisted for nearly half a century specifically that she died by choking on a ham sandwich. I first heard that story sometime in my late teens shortly after discovering the song California Dreaming in the way that young people love to discover retro music, which is to say, insufferably, at the time it occurred to me as a mere historical oddity. What a weird way to go. But now having learning more learn more about Eliot's short and pain field life, I'm struck by the fact that one of the few fat women in pre ops music history is forever tethered to an ugly urban legend, implying that her death was brought about by food. appetite, was what killed Elliot, the now debunked legend seem to say an appetite so big and out of control that she couldn't tame it to even fit the punishing norms for women's bodies in the 1970s. America. For most fat people, this fear of Gluttony is nothing new. We're constantly told that our bodies are too big, that we're too lazy that we're driving up healthcare premiums simply by existing in our skin. I'll never know Eliot or understand what it felt like to be one of the few highly visible fat women in a society marred by unchecked fat phobia. But I think I can guess what it might have been like to stand on stage every night before an audience who saw you as either a threat or a joke. Of course, Eliot was adored by legions of fans juggler just like other folk rock, Sean toussis all her time, but things were different for her. Even her own band poked fun at her weight, including the line. No one's getting fat except Mama Cass in the lyrics to the 1967 song Creek alley. Hiding behind the hand sandwich legend, which has now been thoroughly disproven is a much grimmer backstory to Mama Cass is life and death, one which is far too which far too many people will be able to identify. In February 2020 episode of The Hollywood law podcast you must remember this, the Oakland based writer Lexi pandal, explained that the actual cause of Eliot's death was heart failure brought on at least in part by a history of crafted crash dieting, in an effort to lose the weight that all defined all but to find her image. Elia had experimented with drugs, but none were present in her system at the time of her death, nor was there any food in her windpipe. According to coroner Keith Simpson, and its official cause of death was labeled as fatty myocardial degeneration due to Oh word, but that would still be a shocking cause of death for such a young woman and has largely been refuted. pandal tells me from the research I've done and the doctors I've spoken, I spoke to it seems the most likely cause of death was extreme dieting, in combination with long term substance abuse. Pan Dell believes that present day fat phobia contributes to a continued lack of understanding about how how Eliot actually died, in part because confronting the possibility that cast may have died due to extreme dieting. Challenges are idealization of diet culture. There is a wealth of evidence out there about how unhealthy extreme dieting can be. I'm going to come in here and say, not even extreme dieting, not to mention ineffective in the long term with a 97% of dieters gaining back every pound they lost and then some within three years. Unfortunately, though, during the span of Eliot's all too short life, to be thin, was widely considered empirically good and healthy, while fatness was seen as health, compromising, and morally suspect regardless of the specific of an individual's health status, or medical history. Despite all the body positive gains that have been made in the last half century, far too many of us are still stuck in that binary blinkered mindset. We also have a quote from an article that Mama Cass was quoted in, she says, I've invented a fabulous new diet, it costs only 2000 dollars for each pound you lose. It also weakens your natural resistance to disease. I can't guarantee it but the mammoth cast diet can give you acute tonsillitis, hemorrhaging vocal cords, mono Lukey, mono, and a dangerous case of hepatitis. At least that's what it did for me. I lost my house and more than a quarter of a million dollars in earnings as a singer. Yeah. And I watched her. Her last her last appearance on TV, I watched her the beginning segment of it, her mom was in the audience. And I just saw in a few days, that mom is going to be heartbroken. And even Cass Elliot was saying, Oh, she passed out. She said she passed out because she hadn't eaten all day. And I was alarmed by that. But the host was just like, oh, change the subject about rings that she was wearing. And then then she went back onto it. And she was like, Yeah. And it was kind of embarrassing, because, you know, I passed out with curlers in my hair when there was lots of people around. And again, the host doesn't say anything about it. And then there was a kid on the stage, and the kid was had this big jar of candy and was eating the candy. And the kid said, Oh, you can have some and she said, Oh, it's okay. I've already had some. And she said she again, she said, I haven't eaten all day. So I needed to quickly grab something to keep me going, is what she said. And to me that was if a straight size person was sat on that stage and said, I passed out because I didn't eat anything all day long. And I had to just grab some candy there because I haven't eaten I need to keep going. Would that host be like, oh my goodness, it sounds like you're not eating enough. That sounds kind of like you need to eat. But he was totally ignored. And I doubt that anyone else really picked up on that. And if they did, they will probably like, well, good for her. She's trying to lose weight. When she was saying that it was you know, it caused her to pass out. And then, you know, shortly after, from what this doctor is saying, you know, chronic dieting took a life and then very Crawley because I think she was staying in actually another famous person's house. And in the house, I think there was a ham sandwich around. And so the the medical examiner who was there the rumor got started because their medical examiner was there. It was like, Oh, look, there's a ham sandwich. Perhaps she choked eating it. And I mean, how fucked up is that? Would a straight sized person who was lying dead? Who happened to there was happened to be food around in the apartment? Have a medical examiner say oh, it's probably because they were eating and then that that's how the rumor got started. Because that was then shared with the press. And they're just like, well, of course it could this fat person who died eating and it wasn't true. And he did say that the medical examiner an autopsy needs to be done to find out exactly, but here's an idea. Because she was 32. Right? And she shouldn't be dying. There's there's no reason for her to be dying. And so it's not like it's you know, maybe an older person. It's like, oh, well, you know, they died of old age. And so there needs to be a reason there. What's going on. So she died July 29 1974, age 32. I really wish that she had she'd stuck around looking at pictures of her oh my gosh, she was fucking cool. And she was fat by the way in case there's any confusion that she was one of the people here that we're talking about the was actually fat and had spent so much time and effort to try and become thin. Alright, so let's go to another from the 70s Karen Carpenter. Karen was a singer in the pop duo the carpenters. They did the song. Why do birds suddenly up he every time you are.

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So that was Karen Karen Carpenter. So this is a quote from the independent ie the real reason Karen Carpenter was driven to anorexia she died from anorexia. Kara's disorder is described as having started out innocently Enough, innocently enough when she wanted to lose a few pounds after leaving high school, she had been a chubby teenager and in 1973 she saw a photo of herself that prompted her to take action. She had put on weight and didn't look good and didn't look good in her stage outfit. So the independent says doesn't look who says. So she hired a personal trainer who put her on a carbohydrate based diet. She also had friends who told her that she was too big. Naturally, she began to bulk up she fired her trainer and took her own extreme measures. She lost 20 pounds and quote looked fabulous, said a sister of an old boyfriend. But unfortunately, she didn't stop there. At restaurants, Karen pushed her food around a plate and urged friends at the table to try her meal stealthily getting rid of her food was given the impression she was enjoying her meal so much she wanted others to try to. In 1975, Karen was admitted to hospital physically and emotionally exhausted from two years on the road and years of extreme dieting. This particular occasion got that her mother's attention, and she nursed Karen, she even regained some weight. Finally, she died from eye peak ipecac poisoning that which is a drug used to induce vomiting in overdose cases. And Karen had been using it as another way of controlling her weight. She was not aware of its side effects of slowly dissolving the hearts muscle muscles and had been taking it every day. She died February 4 1983, age 32. Yeah, and so I'm thinking, you know, Ed is a complicated, right. But what is the starting thing here? She saw a photo of herself. And she didn't like the fact that she'd put on weight. Which is, which is fatphobia her friends and family told her to lose weight. Why did they tell her to lose weight when she she clearly wasn't not ever fat? Right? Why did they believe that that was the best course of action. Perhaps they were trying to prepare her for a success in a fat phobic world. Perhaps she was trying to prepare herself for success in a fat phobic world by being as soon as possible. Because that was what we're told, is needed. So let's talk about Elvis. And Elvis is kind of like well, I just want to talk about him. So quote, Presley was one of the biggest musical sensations ever, but he was human and had feelings. His former girlfriend Linda Thompson shared that the weight gain really bothered him. So he had gained weight in the later part of his life. According to elvis.com, she said it was living life out of the public eye. He was living life and eating out of the public eye and eating at all hours. It just feels so unkind to be talking about him like this press, he loved food and cycles of weight gain began. Thompson added that he always battled with his weight, and the two of them structured their social life around eating. She also said that the weight game really did bother him. The formal model elaborated the criticism bothered him. He was a very sensitive, acutely sensitive person to other people's perceptions of him. And you know, he just, it did hurt his feelings a lot. So I'm thinking about that, you know that. We don't know that he took diet pills, but I was there something in that Elvis movie that made me think that he had anyway he was taking other other drugs? And so how did fat phobia contribute towards Elvis's experiences? In life? What was going on there? What? Why? Why is it you know, what he's saying his life revolved around food and, and all of these other really awful articles. I'm not going to read out this was like, the kindest that I could find. being like, Oh, he ate X amount of calories a day. And, you know, he was just all he ever did was eat and you know, and it's just to me, I'm like, is that true? Is that a good story to tell? If it is true? What is going on? What is? is L? Was he Okay, mentally? Was he? What was going on with him? You know, like, I'm just was he just trying to survive in this really, you know, difficult situation that he might have been in and watching the film was about how his manager financially abused him. And he was kind of stuck. kept the the comment what the name of the hotel is in Vegas with his residency forever and ever. And ever, he had a little freedom. And his manager made it so he couldn't leave because if he did, then he would be bankrupt and lose all his money money. So, I mean, is it a case of him trying to like with me with me when I was in an abusive relationship. One of the only sources of comfort that I had was food, it because I wasn't accessing, you know, drugs or alcohol or anything like that. But it was the only joy and it really did help me survive. At the time, I would say I was actually pretty straight seitan in a small fat person, but my boyfriend at the time had told me that I was too big. And so he put me on a diet and controlled everything that I ate. So I didn't have control when he was around for what I ate. And so I did when he wasn't around, and I think it saved me. Because that's what I had higher had access to. And I think about that with you know, obviously that's not everyone's story. And it's not it's probably not even a lot of people story, but that might that's what came up when I thought about Elvis. And, I mean, it could have been anything else as well. But the way that we talk about Elvis Elvis, as if he was like, just let himself go and who was this? Just, you know, the thing. I don't even want to repeat them like the words they were saying about him. Okay, so Anna Nicole Smith. Recently, she lost a reported 69 pounds and became a spokeswoman for trim spa, and weight loss supplements. She always had problems with her weight going up and down. And there's no question she used alcohol. It was no secret that she quote had a very troubled life and had so many problems. She wanted to be like Marilyn Monroe her whole life and ironically died in a similar manner. Monroe died of a drug overdose at age 66 in 1962. And Anna Nicole Smith died of an overdose of diet pills. Correction, it wasn't diet pills. I was looking at us looking at a different link here. It was combinations of lots of different drugs. But I mean, she was a spokesperson for this trim spa. And I wonder how much of you know she says struggling with her weight. So I wonder how much of what was going on with Anna Nicole Smith was linked to her desire for thinness. Okay, so this is the thing that I was looking at the star who did die from diet pills. Police Academy star Bubba Smith died from diet pill overdose. Police Academy star and NFL legend Bubba Smith died from taking too many diet pills. According to the LA coroner, county coroner. They released the actor's cause of death the first which of which was acute. I wouldn't want to say the name of the diet pill intoxication. This This name is a generic name for a weight loss medication. He was six foot seven and died at age 66. Okay, Shane Walker knows Shane Warne, a famous cricketer. I don't know about cricketing, but Shane Warren was on extreme 14 day diet as new details of tragic death emerged. Age 52 His manager James Erskine revealed that he resorted to radical measures to lose weight and had just finished an extreme and quote ridiculous cleanse in which he had only fluids for about 14 days. We don't know that's if that was what killed him but it happened to they happen to mention that

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Joan Rivers she didn't die from fatphobia but I she died from having a facelift and so why are people haven't faced this because beauty culture because of ageism. Her daughter Melissa Rivers has filed a maltron Petrus practice suit against Yorkville endoscopy, the New York City clinic that treated her mother Joan for a minor through surgery last August and she had a facelift. The procedure had complications and Joan Rivers went into cardiac arrest. She died a week later To Takashi six nine. Still alive. Young a young person was hospitalized after ingesting a combo of diet pills and caffeine. According to multiple sources and as covered by people, the rapper was admitted to a Florida Hospital after admittedly taking more than the suggested dosage. He told the Shade Room that instead of taking one pill, he took two and mixed it with a cup of coffee. After that his heart rate sped up and he began to sweat excessively the celebrity gossip account added that Takeshi to Kashi is recovering at home and is doing fine. The company that sells pills that he took asserts that it can help customers lose weight fast, without any unwanted side effects. However, history has provoked proven difficult. In fact, the pill that to Kashi took was linked to severe organ damage and multiple deaths, and has reportedly been removed from the market by the FDA multiple times. And another thing about diet pills. This is this article from CBS, Hollywood's dangerous weight loss secret. And it's talking about the kind of open secret about diet pill usage within Hollywood. Inherit quick quotes, they're reporting on the pressure on actresses and models to be thin causes some to find dangerous ways to find to speed up their weight loss along more people seem to be turning to drugs like bla bla bla, which is approved by in the United States to treat asthma in horses. The side effect of this drug is that it builds muscle and results in temporary weight loss. I hear it a lot in my gym and it's a dangerous drug. Hollywood fitness trainer said there isn't a magic pill if there was I'm a business person I'd be selling it I'd be taking it. But in Hollywood, some people are willing to trade their health to be thin celebrities and models are dissected on the red carpet and runways and face a lot of pressure to look perfect. If you're thin your success as successful said Ken Baker, a West Coast executive editor at US wiki Us Weekly, US Weekly, US Weekly I think that's it has become this epidemic that you have to be thin and too thin is never thin enough. Scarlett Palmer's who starred on The CW sitcom Reba is recovering from an eating disorder and says many young actresses feel they have got to get got to get skinny if they want to work. I definitely have heard horror stories from other actresses and actors too, that have been told, well lose 15 pounds, you can get that part. She said, It really just puts you in this place where you kind of don't know what's normal or not. A lot of these women in Hollywood are under such extreme pressure that they'll go to extreme mothers measures to get the look that they want. Some say this diet pill has become Hollywood's dirty little secret Hollywood hair stylists Ricardo Reyes have used the drug to drop weight. Why get there in three months? We can get there in a month? Well, the answer to that is because it is going to hurt you. Also, I'm just thinking about any celebrity who, who's died whilst being fat. Like what's his name? Chris Farley? That guy that was in Uncle Buck. John, John, what's his name? Uncle Buck. That was a good film, wasn't it? Do you remember that one? John Candy? Yeah, anyone who dies whilst being fat. It doesn't matter what their what they died from. People report it as they die from being fat. You know? Like Chris Farley, he took a speedball like, I can't remember it's a combination of two different drugs. And he died. And I'm reading articles about about him and it's like, well, he was so fat. What he dried what? And as well, like the way that when they were alive, they were portrayed. You know, like Chris Farley, he was famous. So he was on SNL Saturday Night Live. He was famous for this Chippendales sketch where him and Patrick Swayze audition for the Chippendales. That was the sketch right? And it was the joke was that Chris Farley was fat. And look at this this guy, Patrick Swayze, who was muscley and toned and tanned and tall and oh, look at this Chris Farley. He was shorter than him fat, visibly fat. And then they both take the shirts off and they're both just dancing. And then the joke is the joke is all they can't decide which one to pick. And it's like, it's an the joke is it's so ridiculous because clearly, Patrick Swayze is the perfect person to be a Chippendales model because Chris Farley is fat As I mentioned, they go with Patrick Swayze. And how much of a fat person who is in the media spotlight is their fat nurse is just a core part of their, quote, personality, you know. And as well, we think about diet pills. Also, celebrities will undergo stomach amputation or stomach squeezing surgery. And so I'm just going to not that folks have died from it. But there's a list of people who've had bariatric surgery. And so Rosie O'Donnell, who was told that she needed to lose weight and so she had surgery after trying a diet. I don't know, I don't know, this is a before and after picture, and I can't really see that much difference. Lisa Lampanelli. Don't know who she is, but apparently she's famous. And her before pictures, she seems pretty dry size or small or small fat. And she says For 32 years from the age of 18 to 50. I tried everything on the planet to become thin. And anyway, I what I've done a few episodes, episodes on gastric surgery, and it's really, really fucked up and the results. I mean, the studies that we have around it, absolutely lacking shocking. The information is not showing that this surgery is, is good. It'll help people temporarily lose weight, surprise, surprise, has terrible side effects, really high death rate from surgery, increased risk of tons of different things. But for some folks, it does make them smaller. And so they're like, Oh my God, my life is amazing now, which is fine. If that's if that's what's worked for them, then I'm happy that they haven't had negative outcomes because the you know, that's a really difficult thing to go through. But, you know, why are these people going through these surgeries? They're famous people wonder why, let's continue. Randy Jackson Jackson, the former American Idol judge because he was diagnosed with with type two diabetes. He tried lots of different things to get thin. Get this. He says liquid fasts, bee stings, urine of pregnant women. You name it. I've tried it. And then he says that he has a disease which is the O word. In 2003. Randy got gastric bypass surgery and lost x pounds when he began to gain some of the weight back Carnie Wilson of the pop group Wilson Phillips a few months afterwards she says it was the right decision for her. I will Roker everyone's favorite weatherman. He has a memoir never going back winning the weight loss battle for good. He promised His dad on his deathbed that he would lose weight. He wasn't even that be Sharon Osbourne she had lap band surgery in 1999. She says the procedure procedure made her very sick so she had the band removed in 2006. I've struggled with weight weight my entire life. I've been fat and I've been thin she told Us Weekly as you know I got the lap band and I lost a ton of weight but it made me so sick that's why I had to remove it. But when I removed it I gained 45 pounds. Cabaret said of a Roseanne Barr Mama June Shannon so that was from what was her name Honey BooBoo. Yeah So Mama June from Honey BooBoo had a gastric sleeve surgery in 2006. She says doing all the surgeries really took a toll on me not just physically but emotionally. Graham Elliot, the start a master Master Chef judge, Lauren Manzo. The real high foot housewives who lives of New Jersey.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:17

Got a lap band when she was 24. And they share her weight. She was small. She says getting the lap band was the best thing I've ever done in my life. Star Jones Co hosts of the view, NFL coach and current ESPN analyst Rex Ryan Abby Lee Miller from Dance Moms, Austin chumlee Russell from porn stars. And the list goes on. Etta James No. Etta James, you know, last mile love has come along. Yeah, so the list goes on and on. As you know, probably a lot of folks who've had surgery and I mean if someone wants to have surgery Go Go for it. But I wonder why, you know, the pressures of that. Being in the public eye is probably a lot, a lot harder. I can't even imagine I've said this before, if, if a celebrity does anything to try and become thin, I totally understand it. And that's why I titled it. Legends of fatphobia stole because I really feel folks that they are victims to systems of oppression, that hurt, hurts many, many peoples and they've got the added layer of being in the public eye. And I mean, you know, who started I started out with Amy Winehouse and the way that the press spoke about Amy's body. I don't know how anyone could survive that. I mean, even if someone was was really, you know, had a therapist I could talk to every day and their mental health was in tip top condition. And then they had papers by paparazzi falling, following them everywhere and at their front doorstep. And then writing absolutely awful shit about even when she was not theoretically using drugs, or alcohol. was still talking shit about her body. And it doesn't matter. You know what, what people do? Celebrities, people are always going to criticize our bodies are too big to bat too thin. But obviously, the driving force behind a lot of this is weight bias is the idea that thinness is superior to fatness, which is not true. Yeah. So what do you think? Is there? Is there anyone else that you can think of? There's probably many right that I've totally missed. And, you know, there's many that we maybe don't even know about, I know that death was was ruled as there so that without the Elvis prevalent Presley, his autopsy has been sealed. And it's sealed until 50 years after his death, which is 2027. And so in five years time, we're gonna be able to see the autopsy results to know what really was going on. And, you know, there's lots of different theories about what happened to him. But I think the the cause of death that they announced was heart attack, maybe I think that's what it was. Yeah. But if we think about fat phobia, anti fat bias, as in understanding the harm that it causes to our physical and mental health, it absolutely has contributed to many, many deaths, and many of the deaths that I've spoken about today. And it's hard to be absolutely sure, right, because it's a very complicated issue. But I think that for a lot of these folks, especially the ones with EDS, there was that underlying anti fat bias that definitely contributed to a lot of those experiences that they had in their lives, which was was not okay, you know, that, that I really do have compassion for people who were in the public eye. Because I mean, I don't know if I could do that, to have people write about me constantly and pick up pick apart every single part of me, in a, in a world that supports fatphobia. Sounds really difficult. So I wish that these folks were able to live without that. And obviously, that wasn't the case. And hopefully, celebrities of today, we're going to be able to treat them with a little bit more kindness when it comes to bodies. And I think, you know, yes, there will be but there's always going to be this idealization of fineness, at any cost. And if you think about it, like in that one, where it was like, the hidden secret, which is diet pills in Hollywood, what would you do? If you were told you needed to lose X amount of weight to get into this film, and potentially become rich and famous? And you knew you had to do it in two weeks or something? I mean, I wouldn't be sure that I would say no, you know, like, I you know, we're sitting here right now I but I will, no, I would, that wouldn't happen, because I wouldn't be in that situation or that. But what if I was trying to be an actor? What if I was told that I am sis close to achieving my dreams, and all I need to do is become thinner? Would I say no? And go back to you know, and let my dreams die, theoretically, or would I just do it? I think a lot of us would just do it, you know, and I'm saying, who knows what I would do because you'd think, Oh, it's just so close. We're so close. If I just lose this amount of weight, I'll be thin enough, you know, trying to get to this place that doesn't exist and even And then if you do happen to become famous it doesn't stop it doesn't stop it just gets worse because you have more eyes on you dissecting your body anyway let me know if you've got anyone else that you think should have been in this episode. I'd love to hear about it and obviously not everyone is episode died just in case you're like hang on did Takashi six nine die? No all the other people who had gastric surgery none of that none of them died. Yeah, and you know, we've talked about a lot of darker kind of stuff today and fucked up stuff today. So if you need to go and do a little bit of self care I would encourage it go and go and watch something amazing on Netflix or go and look at some fat positive accounts or watch like some funny cat fail videos. Have a good I was doing that last night when it was like two in the morning. I was like go to fucking bed. Stop watching these and then it goes into like funny fail videos and it goes into watching idiot drivers. I was watching like for an hour so silly that I was like, Okay, enough. Enough go to bed. And I did. Anyway, thanks for hanging out with me today. I hope you are having a wonderful day and have a wonderful rest of your week and life if I never if I never hear from you again. Okay, goodbye. See you in a while alligator. Perfect.