Episode 87 Transcript

Read transcript alongside audio.

Welcome to the Fierce Fatty Podcast. I'm your host, Victoria Welsby and this is episode 87. Today, we're talking about fatphobia at work.

I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident fifth party who loves every inch of this jelly. society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the first fatty podcast Let's begin.

Hello, welcome to this episode, this sweaty episode. It's it's been a heatwave in Vancouver. I'm currently wearing as little as humanly possible. Without my tits being completely out. I make a video of the podcast and put it on the internet. And I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate to see, see minutes, but try not to try not to. It's been like 40 degrees in Vancouver for those who use Fahrenheit. That's like 104 Fahrenheit, which is really fucking hot and hardly anywhere in Vancouver. Hardly any homes have AC like it's just not a thing. Because of our weather. It's so mild. But it has been you know, now now due to global warming, we're all going to have to get AC and we're just not equipped for these temperatures. And I saw I mean I sort of mean that said the temperatures across the Pacific Northwest were hotter than 99.98 or 98.98.

Anyway, let's just say 98% of the world. Now has that other world. Yeah, so it's today's call down a bit. Which, which is why I can record the podcast. Because any other day in the last few days. I yeah, I was literally my skin was dripping off me

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on today is what was it Wednesday? Yeah. So on for it started on Friday, Saturday, because I hadn't I've never seen temperatures like this before. And so in the week. I Oh, it's gonna be like that. It's definitely the weekend on Saturday. Let's go to the lake. And so me and Hector and his husband, Dr. Michael J. Park, we went to a lake and the lake water was beautiful. But whenever we're out of the lake, it was like, surface of the Sun stuff. Walking to the lake from like us where we were sat, which was like four meters walking on the sand. I have never felt sand like that. I feel like ginger. Have you seen those? Oprah Winfrey? Oprah Winfrey Tony Robbins things where they walk over the fire. They walk over the coals. I was, you know, when I got into the lake, I was like, I have just done that. I just just did the cold walk. But it was like sand sand. It was so hot that it was almost gonna turn into glass. Like that's how hot the sand was. And on the way back. I was driving. My AC was struggling so much that it just blew hot air for the the journey was an hour and 15 and so for an hour at Blue Coat got blue hot air, and the last 15 minutes that came in it kicked in. It was like okay, okay, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. But we were just dying. Diane, and I let's just open the windows. Just let that breathe in. And I'm sure if we're at the on the highway that really is gonna be nice and cold. No, it was just like being in a wind tunnel and that the the wind tunnel was just hairdryers. It was just bad. And then Sunday.

So okay, I'm gonna get serious about this heat malarkey. I talked over all of my windows, not a speck of light in my apartment. And I was like, come on, the heat is gonna come down now and the heat didn't come down. I totally didn't get any odor but it was so hot and I had fans, but the fans were just blowing hot air on you and that's not nice. So yeah, I sat in darkness naked couldn't even like switch a light bulb on when I went out when I put on a lamp or something or went to the bathroom turned the lights on it would be like, Oh God, the heat from the lamp from the light bulb was was too much. So yeah, so I made my made it my mission to troll Craigslist for an AC and actually people were we were putting up ads on Craigslist just saying, Oh, please, oh, by your by your ACR pay twice what it's worth and people were getting into, into bidding wars. And I don't know how the fuck I managed to buy, like, managed to get got get an AC unit. And I only paid like a little bit more than what it was worth. It's just, I was just like, wow, this is happening. And the guy was like, I have I had a bunch of ACS and he's like, I've got one left. Do you want it and I was literally like, I can be there in 20 minutes. And, and like, the whole time I was like, This is gonna be a scam. This is gonna be a joke. Like he's gonna, you know, he's gonna sell me like I'd know. An ice tray, but like booze and air conditioner. But it was real. It was real. And I only had to pay like 200 bucks for it. And I installed it. And it was just, I could only could only call down my bedroom. But at least I had somewhere to go into where I could call down. And it's like this little you know, this one of the smallest size ACS areas. But I was like, I would take anything. Take anything to get released on. I just feel I just was like hugging the AC and kissing actually, Mike, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh.

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Yeah, so that wasn't, that wasn't fun. And for the people who couldn't get AC couldn't afford to get AC don't have access to it. I just Oh, I managed to do two days of it. And I was sick. Like literally, like, couldn't eat much. I could like eat a little bit. But then I made me feel sick, because your body didn't want to. Apparently I was looking at him. I was like, why am I getting sick? And apparently your body not it doesn't happen to everyone. But your body's like, it creates heat to digest. And so let's do it as little as possible. So your body's like, now you've had enough and just feeling like loopy. And apparently that's how a lot of people die in due to heat is because they just feel disoriented. And that's what he does.

And then and then you know, you die from overheating. So yeah, I didn't die. So that's good. And now I'm the proud owner. I am very proud of an AC unit. And I was like, I'm never gonna get AC. Like having one of those units hanging out the window. It looks so ugly, and I don't like it. And I would never do that. And you know if someone suggested get what about shrining AC now, like I don't give a shit what it looks like, you know? Yeah, I was admiring it. When I walked to Google this morning, I said Google away actually, I sent Google away to my ex's his dad's house who has a C. So I was like, I'm really worried that Google's You, Jesus, very furry. He's a little dog. But he's very he's got lots of and he's got black hair. And I know we weren't outside but you know, black. That's that's gets the hottest. With sunrise. But we were in darkness.

So anyway, but now he's back. So I'm holding him back. So in today's episode, I stopped talking about I'll stop talking about liking some shit. I've used it if you're watching the video and you think, Oh, she looks a bit sweaty. Then yes, that is why I enjoy and normally I have kind of a red face anyway. Someone on a video was like, Oh, I love that roof that you're wearing. And I looked at the video. I was like, rude there was there was literally no Rouge my whole face was just read from sunburn is like a different video. thing, but I painted my whole face red, or they just take the faces I don't know. Anyway, I'm just happened to be a red person, obviously, you know, because my DNA is 95% Potato. So. Okay, so what this episode is I'm gonna answer a couple of questions from you. If you ever have a question that you want me to answer on the show, if you go to the show notes, which is facebook.com forward slash podcast, then there is a link for you to submit a question. Make sure that you submit a question that way because it keeps everything together versus just DMing me or or emailing me or whatever because And then you can get lost in the shuffle. Whereas with this, I can just go to your question and then it's there. And then I just, you know, answer it. So there's a link there in the show notes, if you want to ask a question, and go do that. So the first question is from Kelly. And Kelly says, I need some advice. At work, we often have information sessions regarding different topics to support us, could be mental health, professional development, etc.

Lately, there has been a lot of diet, culture and fatphobia. In these sessions, and I see red, I speak up and say things like, cookies are great. Eating is great, etc. I threw in Can we stay away from diet, culture and weight stigma? I used to stay quiet. But it pains me to think that there are people listening to this or rating themselves for eating, should I be standing up and saying anything? Should I stay quiet? Obviously, I understand that that society has built this world where being fat is a worst thing someone can be, and definitely have compassion, but not when it's touted as self care strategy, etc. As a self care strategy.

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Example like etc, example reduce your stress, but but also berate yourself for eating a box of chocolates and go outside and walk it off. How do you not see red? Or do you? So that was from Kelly, thanks for the question, Kelly. And your answer is, Oh, I see red, I see. violent, bloody red, and I want to do some roundhouse kicks to people's faces who do this bullshit. And then exactly what you say I have compassion, because you know, they don't know any better. But we are going to see this more and more as, as folks go back to work, or back to the office or workplaces want to, quote unquote, help people overcome the Panini. And so the way that they do that, it will be like, oh, let's, let's help you not be fat anymore because of the quarantine. Kill me now. And even if you're not seeing that the workplace, if you turn on a television, then new stories are, oh, I talking about this bullshit, and I gone, everyone's putting so much weight, and we're all gonna die. So it was really, really hard to avoid it. And so this rhetoric is going to be about even more than usual. Yay. Well, you know, we kind of used to, we've been used to see what it's like, we've been used to seeing it in general, but then also, when the Panini started used to that, like, don't get that don't get fat, oh, my god, we're getting fat.

And now it's kind of like, oh, let's, let's fix it. So what do we do in this situation, so depending on your body size, you'll have varying amounts of privilege in these situations. And also, depending on what type of personality you have, and depending on what is your you know, if you have anything else going on your life, and how many spoons you have. And so spoons, it's a it's a term to me, like how much mental energy or how much capacity you have to do something. I think it came from the disabled community to serve to say, to recognize that, you know, we're not unlimited sources of labor constantly. And that extends to sometimes you just come because you for whatever, a million different reasons. Something else that's really important to consider here is as well, not only personality privilege, is all the other privileges that I hold on other people hold. So it's gonna be easier for someone like me, who is a white person, and being middle class and being able bodied, etc, etc, etc. To talk to people, right, because I have privilege in the world. And so think about that, when it comes to you, choosing whether you want to take action against fatphobia, or at work, all of the different intersecting intersecting identities that you may or may not hold. So it's so all of those things will kind of dictate about how you deal with this. And so there's no kind of perfect answer for this. It all depends on what you can do.

So let me let me tell you the different things that are options, and you can decide what might feel good for you. So what I would And again, look at this depends like, if I had really like shit day or I don't have any spoons, then I might not be able to do this, but what I will do is I would go straight to the person doing these workshops or HR and just lay down the law, I'm gonna say lay down the law, I'm not going to be like kicking in their door being like, listen up here, motherfucker, yeah, piece of shit.

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I'll be nice about it. Right. But you know, I would tell them the this is fat phobic, or this is diet culture, and this is encouraging eating disorders. And then it's promoting shame and shame is really bad for our health. And, and, and I would make a deal out of it. Because because I'm a fat activist, right? And I feel very comfortable about talking about this stuff, I'm sure about this stuff, you know, there's no kind of like, if someone says, But what about fat people, they're so unhealthy, I have the knowledge in my brain to back up and be like, actually, studies show, blah, blah, blah. And so I have that privilege of, you know, I've educated myself around that. Also, I work for myself, and so I'm not reporting to a boss. And so it's easy for me to say, I'm gonna march into their office and, you know, lay down the law, I'm not worried about getting fired by someone because I am my own boss. And my personality type is that I am able to have difficult conversations and can take risks, like I'm a risk taker, and this is risky. You know, it's not, it's maybe not, it's not as risky as standing in front of a bus, but it's still those risks, right. And so, you can do that, if you want to do that if you want to, if you're in the same kind of same type of personality, and blah, blah, blah, as me, and you have that, that confidence, you can do that. And you don't have to do it in the same style, you don't have to go and talk to someone and, and confront them.

But just like an FYI, of you can do this, but also know that there might be consequences. And we have to think about the power dynamics at play. So some other things that you could do is instead of talking to someone you could write, the person who was organizing these events are really cool email, which is like, Oh, hey, I don't know if you knew. But when we say this, and when we say that, these are the potential impacts of that. And I know that you would never want people to be walking away with that type of message, you know, talking about how it's harmful. Another thing you can do is to asked, ask to get a consultant to do a lunch and learn about size diversity. Someone like me, I do this, I go into companies and I talk about size, diverse diversity, about weight stigma about how to love your body. And so maybe they don't stop the all the other bullshit, but why not encourage getting someone like me, and then I'll be the person who's calling out all the, you know, naming all of the fatphobia. And, and people will be like, Oh, shit, oh, I've been doing, I've been doing that. Another thing you can do is to talk with your other colleagues about how they feel about all of that diet culture stuff, and start a conversation.

Now, it might not be safe for you to do that, because everyone else might be like, Yeah, I'd love it when I get body shame. You know, people might like be like that. And if you already know that, but maybe having a conversation, I don't know, maybe might start something knows. Another thing you can do is not do anything, and then talk about this with a therapist. And just be like, Listen, you know, I don't have the capacity to do anything, for whatever reason. And this is really just fucking get it on my tips, and talk to a therapist about it. And another thing that you could do is not do anything, and not talk to a therapist and just ruminate about it, because maybe accessing a therapist, for whatever reason, that's not something that you can do. And so none of these options are wrong overall, are are the best because like I mentioned, not everyone has the capabilities, capacity, or desire to want to go and talk about this stuff. But if you have privilege, and you're just like air, whatever. Maybe and you're not in this is not like a topic that's really kind of hitting home for you because you're not living in a big body.

Then I would encourage you to see what you can do. And if you have a personality where you can have conversations and things like that, I would really encourage it because that is like activism right there. And then and it doesn't have to be like I said, it doesn't have to be right listen up here motherfucker. As I'm about I'm going to murder you with my fat stats, statistics.

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And just an FYI, it is not okay that this is happening in the workplace. It is not okay, this is not acceptable. This is fatphobia diet culture. It is bigotry in the workplace. And that is bullshit. That is not is not okay. There's no debate about is it okay to you know talk about diets and shit like that? No, it is violence, it is anti fat violence, it is not okay, ever full stop and a story. So, in line with this, I want to share my jab technique. And so the my jab technique is something that I created. I don't know if I've ever shared it with you before. But things like this, this is not going to be a one and done type of thing. So Kelly, in in their comments said, I've said can we stay away from this and cookies are great, and eating is great and all that type of stuff. And notice how Kelly is it, you know, sent trying to set boundaries there. But it sounds like it's not really sticking.

And so when we want to have our boundaries enforced, I like to talk about the jab technique that I created, so that we can have a system to go about this. And so jab is an acronym, it stands for Judge action brace and bottom line J a BB judge, action brace bottom line, so de, it sounds for a judge. And so you are going to judge the situation you are going to assess whether you are safe to set a boundary, you're going to look at the power dynamics. So is it safe for you to do so like if you are going to be approaching a boss who was a complete asshole, and you know that there are raging fafo, and you know that you they could fire you at any moment. And they're they're that type of person, it might not be safe for you to do so. And in that case, it might be better to take another action. So another action could be not doing anything and protecting yourself and seeing what you can do to avoid those situations. Like maybe can you get another job, right? So maybe setting a boundary in that in that situation is not the best thing because it might not be safe. So J is for Judge. A is for action. So if you've decided, okay, I do want to set a boundary, I want to speak up and this is what I want to do. You you have to do it right. And you have to be very clear, versus being a bit wishy washy about it. And so you need to set the boundary. And if you are not normally a boundary setter, it's going to be scary as should work.

Before I set boundaries, I imagined that I would say oh, hey, do you think that maybe you could do this? This? Maybe the more if you can't, but maybe can you not call me a bitch? Maybe? And I would imagine that the person would be like, What? What the fuck? How dare you ask for me to not call you a bitch, I'll do whatever the fuck I want. You know, I would imagine that they would just be like this monster. And that was because of previous trauma and bad experiences with people. But generally speaking, most people are you know, well balanced. You know, as long as you're, you're kind of going in there and trying to be we're trying to word it in a way which which is easier to hear. And, and you know, you're never responsible for someone's reaction. But if you're like, hey, you're a piece of shit, and I hate you and blah, blah, blah, then they might have a negative reaction, obviously, but if you're like, Hey, I'm curious. This is a line to use. I'm, I'm curious whether you could help me with something? And they'll say, yes. And you'd say I'm learning to love and accept my body. I'm learning to unravel all of the unhelpful beliefs from diet culture. I'm not I'm good at it. And something that really helps me is avoiding fat phobic things or avoiding saying this and that is lalalala.

And so would you think you can help me make that a reality in the workplace? Or you know, and so they're probably gonna say, oh, yeah, cool. Yeah, no problem. Okay, great. So do you think that we can maybe get a consultant in that talks about, do a lunch and learn on this? Or do you think that we can maybe when we're talking about health, we talk about things like mental health and we talk about how shame is really impactful on our on our health and how fatphobia exists and all that type of stuff. And so you have to kind of be very clear No, no wishy washy

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kind of off the cuff type thing. So sometimes that might work, you know, if you're just like, oh, this is so boring, like, why are you talking about this, that might work. But I am all for being as clear as possible when we can without communication. And it's not always possible, you know, you're not going to be the best human being all the time.

Next, so next is brace so be brace, brace for, chances are, they're going to break the boundary, right? They're not they're gonna do it accidentally. So if you have say, if all of your life you've dieted, and you've asked your mom not to talk about dieting, and you've known your mum, since around about the time you were born, for example, and your mom the next time he sees he says, oh, have you seen this new diet? And it's might not be because your mum is an evil witch and just wants to make you upset. Maybe maybe your mum is an evil witch. But maybe also, your mom is just so used to talking about this stuff. And so when you when you brace is like you're getting ready, because you know, they probably, you know, there's a chance that they're gonna forget about that conversation or not take you seriously. And so then that is when you reinforce a boundary. And so you say, oh, yeah, hey, you remember when bla bla bla we talked about this? And they'll probably go, oh, yeah, shit. So Oh, I'm so sorry. He's gonna be do, let's just carry on with our day. And so in your workplace, if you can go back to HR and like, Oh, hey, you remember me talk about that? Oh, yeah, sorry, forgot whatever.

And then the final one is be his bottom line. And so we can't control people. I know, it's so fucking annoying. It's so rude that we can't just force people to do what we want them to do. And then we can't control people. And so they could just be like, No, fuck off, I hate you, I am not gonna not going to do anything that you want me to do. Because I am a horrible human being, or for whatever reason, like, they could just be like, You know what, actually, I just love dieting. And I think it's great for people. And I want to talk about dieting. Okay, all right, I can do that. And so then then you will think about what is your bottom line and then decide what you're going to do. So decide if they are reacting, if that's okay. Or if you're going to remove yourself from the situation, or if you're going to protect yourself, or if you are going to reduce the amount of contact you have with that, you know, what can you do to read to enforce that boundary and have a bottom line so that you're taken seriously, you know, even like for yourself, you know, you say I've got this new standard, and I'm sticking to it, like I will not put up with bigotry. Being You know, my brain is really important for me. And I want to make sure that the workplace I'm in is safe for me. And so what is your bottom line? And again, it might not be possible for you to like see, Elena loses I'm getting a new job like for for many reasons, that might not be possible. But maybe that is something that you might want to look to do Can I can I begin to work towards getting a new job? Or can I do things to protect myself like for whatever reason, you might have to be exposed to these harmful things.

And so, you know, say if you know that there's going to be a lunch and learn Can you not go imagine like, say if you were forced to go for whatever reason, then maybe that evening, can you engage in some type of self care to look after yourself? So in answer to that question from Kelly, it's kind of like there's not one answer. Everything's about you know, you can do but I want you to know that it's not okay, this is not okay. You're not overreacting by by thinking that this is a problem because it is a problem. It is a massive problem. It's not okay. And you deserve to work somewhere that is safe, and that is free from being further marginalized if you live in a marginalized body from free from diet culture, and fatphobia which is harmful to everyone in every body size. Okay, so, next question. Is from Christina, Christina. Short and sweet. How to differentiate low self esteem from a mental health con dition. How to differentiate this this question how to differentiate low self esteem from a mental health condition? So before I answer this question, I want to you know, FYI, in case you're not aware, I'm not a therapist or psychologist. So please keep that in mind. I'm not going to be able to give you a An answer from a trained professionals point of view.

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So here, I'm not going to be saying, Okay, well, this is a mental health condition. This is not a mental health condition, because I'm not a psychologist or therapist, any of those things, I have no capacity to be able to say that or, you know, comment on that? Because I'm not a mental health professional. And so I'm not going to be saying, Oh, yes, definitely. This sounds like a mental health condition. This sounds, you know, because, yeah, that's just no, no, no, no, I'm not gonna be doing that. But I'm going to be talking about you know, should? Should we be taking things? I want to say seriously, but, you know, is this important? How important is it? How bad is something? And is it normal to be experienced feeling these certain things, and going through these type of things. And talking about when I had undiagnosed binge eating disorder, what that looked like, for me, versus when it was less kind of full blown and more your bog standard disordered eating, and what that looked like for me, and so again,

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I'm not a mental health professional, I'm not diagnosing, saying, This is what you're you, you, I've decided it, you have this or you have that, like, no, not me, not me.

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But I do have a lot of thoughts about this. I got thoughts, I got thoughts. And so because, you know, I talk about, I talk about how can you differentiate between if you have disordered eating or an eating disorder, and this is not in eating disorder thing, it's low self esteem, but it but the general gist of it is, is pretty much the same. So my sister is a social worker in Ireland, and she works with with substances, so people who are using substances, and we often talk about how someone can use substances, and it's actually not a problem. And so, you know, you know, lots of people drink and, and people take drugs and things like that. And, and it's not a problem for them, you know, they just, they do it recreationally. And it's not, it's just a part of their life, it's not a problem. And so when does it become a problem? So when when does someone have, you know, alcoholism or whatever? Well, it's when it negatively impacts their life. So it's all about the impact that whatever behavior is having will tell you how, how much of an impact it is having an hour, how serious it might be, but all all ranges of things that are going on your life that are distressing, they're all, you know, something that is worthy of being looked after, right, so. And so an example of this is So say, for example, someone in Ireland's is found to use cannabis, for their mental health. And say, that person has kids. So someone uses cannabis, they have kids, and someone reports them to the police, or whatever, because it's illegal in Ireland to use cannabis.

And so let's say they're referred to my sister. But in lots of places in Vancouver example, and I think in lots of places in the States, it's totally legal. And, and doctors prescribe cannabis. And it's used medicinal Li, it's used recreationally. And it's all fine, right? And so, some, he has imagined a guy or woman, whoever, whoever this parent is, has anxiety, and they've tried lots of different things. And they found that cannabis works. And they've been referred to my sister to make them stop using cannabis. Because if they don't, they're going to lose their kids. Because so they will be seen as a, you know, a bad person. Well, in that case, like is, is that a problem? Like being referred? And being called a problem is a problem. But if that person is happy, and it's and it's providing them helping their mental health and and they're able to do the things that they need to do as a human being then then is that a problem? The answer is no.

And, you know, yeah, someone could be in denial and be like, oh, yeah, you know, I drink loads and loads and it's ruined my life, but I'm fine, you know, but you know, I'm not talking about that type of thing. So I'm just using that as an example of how to think about this. And it goes for anything in our lives. So when is something a problem? And how much of a problem is it? And how much does it impact our lives? How distressing is it? So it makes me think about, I'm going to be talking about binge eating disorder. Now for the next maybe two minutes. If you don't want to hear about binge eating disorder, then just skip ahead a couple of minutes. So it makes me think about, like, when I had binging disorder and an undiagnosed my life revolved around food. So I just remember so clearly waking up in the morning, and you're like, you know, when you wake, your alarm goes off, and you're like, oh, it's morning time, and whatever it is, you're thinking about it, my first thought would always be food, my first first thought would be like, Yes, I'm allowed to eat breakfast now, thank God, you know, oh, I can eat breakfast. And all day long, I would be thinking about eating food, or not eating food, and how to sneak food and how to restrict food and, and it was my whole life, it consumed everything about me. You know, it was like, probably like, 90% of my thoughts were were to do with food. And the rest were other things, you know, like, living.

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So, at the time, I wasn't diagnosed with binging disorder, because I wasn't going I wasn't seeing a mental health professional.

But now I've done this work, I can clearly see how distressing that time was for me, and how much it impacted my life, versus when I began to recover. And when I began to recover, I still thought of food a lot. And I still had to sort of thoughts, but it wasn't as much eased. And the reason why I talked about is this is a lot of the solution for, for one for when it was a full blown eating disorder was a lot, you know, the solution was tied in a lot with when it was just sorted eating. And I say just like in quotation marks, disordered eating is still not a fun thing. And the solution of the for these, both things was and learning fatphobia go into therapy recovering from trauma, and learning diet culture.

And so the difference between the two is, is how urgent it was for me to get help. And so it was more urgent when I was in a more distressing state. I didn't have the money to go to therapy, and you know, it just worked out that I naturally was able to recover. But even if I, I didn't have binge eating disorder, and I was just disordered around food, that doesn't mean that I didn't deserve also to to have support and help. And so something else to consider is that, to keep in mind that a lot of mental health professionals are moving away from diagnosing people as sometimes it's not helpful to have that label. Sometimes it is helpful. And sometimes someone who is a therapist versus a psychologist, depending on where you are in the world, but some people can't actually diagnose someone, they can say you have the symptoms of this condition, but they can't legally diagnose someone.

And so, you know, I think it's falling out of fashion to to want to give lots of your labels and make them feel like there might be something wrong with them when a lot of this stuff is very common and natural behaviors for, you know, to, to recover to, you know, if you've experienced certain things and it's in its, you know, of course, you're going to have trauma around things and have some sort of some type of coping mechanism. Also, I wonder why you want to differentiate between low self esteem and mental and a mental health condition. Like what is the reason it could be you just curious, you know, is it because that if you have a label for how you're feeling, then it's valid. And if you don't have a label, like if you don't fall into the, you know, the criteria of having a mental health condition, then it's not as valid, in your mind, both valid. Or maybe do you think that you want to know if it's bad enough that you should take action Like is it if I have a diagnosable mental health condition, then I should go to see a therapist.

But if I'm just feeling really, really, really, really shit, then I shouldn't, is that what you're thinking? I mean, if you can go to therapists should go for if you just feel bad for whatever reasons, you'd go and see a therapist, even if you don't think you're bad. So, I know for me, I did actually need that, that label of complex PTSD, to prove to myself that I went through something really bad. And, and to say that how I felt was real, versus I was just making it all up in my head. And that I was right to feel the way that I did. Because I had a quote unquote, excuse, you know, I was I was sick, versus, oh, you're just being silly sort of thing. And so my therapist couldn't say you are diagnosed with complex PTSD.

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She could only say you have you had all the symptoms of it. And something like PTSD, it's not black and white, right? It's not like, you have it or you don't, it's not like, you can take a test. Or, you know, someone can draw some blood from you and be like, yep, PTSD, positive, or, or, or whatever, condition positive to do with mental health. It's not black and white, it's kind of shades of grey, and it's a spectrum. And so someone, someone could have experienced the same trauma, as me and not have the same result and not have have had PTSD, whereas others might experience trauma that we would presume is less impactful, and it can be really, really impactful for them.

And so it's, it's all on a scale, and you can be experiencing, you know, a little bit of trauma or a lot of trauma. And that goes for any mental health condition. You know, not everyone is the same with how they experienced it. And so low self esteem and a mental health condition. They are both to do with mental health, right. And low self esteem may be part of a mental health condition, it might be one of the things that as part of a mental health condition, and both are valid, and both can be distressing. And both deserve to be supported. It's like how far on a spectrum of for you feeling like it's impacting your day to day life. And if it's really badly affecting your day to day to day life, then maybe something else is at play aside from the trauma of living in diet culture, and fat phobia. So there's something here that, you know, could be related to low self esteem. And so I wanted to just talk about it because I find it interesting. So there's something called Body Dysmorphic Disorder, you might recognize it as being called body dysmorphia.

So let me just read a little bit from Wikipedia about what it is in case you're not familiar or if you would like to know more. So Body Dysmorphic Disorder, the the occasionally still called dis Morpho phobia is a mental disorder characterized by the obsessive idea that some aspect of one's own body part four appearance is severely flawed and therefore warrants exceptional measures to hide or fix it. In BDD in BDDs. Delusional variant The floor is imagined. If the floor is actual, its importance is severely exaggerated. Either way, thoughts about it are pervasive and intrusive and may occupy several hours a day, causing severe distress and impairing one's otherwise normal activities. BDD is classified as a so matter form disorder, or so matter form just in sideways so now So somatic symptom disorder is any mental disorder that manifests as a as physical symptoms that suggest illness or injury but cannot be explained fully by general medical condition or by the direct effect of substance and are not attributable to another mental disorder.

So it's classified as that and the DSM five categorizes BDD in the obsessive compulsive spectrum and distinguishes it from anorexia nervosa. BDD is estimated to affect from nought point 7% to 2.4% of the population. It usually starts during adolescence and affects both men and women. No information on any other genders or the BDD subtype muscle dysmorphia perceiving the body as too small effects, mostly males, men. Besides thinking, besides thinking about it, one repetitively checks and compares the perceived flaw can adopt unusual routines to avoid social contact that exposes it. Fearing the stigma of vanity, one usually hides the preoccupation, commonly unsuspected, even by a psychiatrist, BDD has been under diagnosed, severely impairing quality of life via educational and occupational dysfunction, and social isolation, BDD has high, high rates of suicidal thoughts and attempts at suicide. So can you see how when we reading that, a lot of that stuff, is stuff that we would experience if you have low self esteem, so maybe not to this extent, so avoiding,

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you know, social isolation, checking your body, you know, perceived flaws, that type of stuff, intrusive thoughts, and so you could have those things and have low self esteem. But it, but it could be, you have to kind of think about, like, to what extent and so in here, it's saying, you know, it could be, you know, we thinking about it several hours a day. And so, it's, I think it's quite normal for most people, especially, because we live in a society that values appearance, for to think about what our body looks like, and to to not be able to perceive what our body actually looks like, you know, how, you know, some people might say, Oh, you look gorgeous. And you're like, lol, no, I don't, they're just saying that a lot of times, if your partner says, you look good looking. And you're like, you're thinking, then they they're lying. They're not true, the eyes are broken, or whatever. And, and so that could be Body Dysmorphic Disorder, depending on how distressing it is to you. So how, how much it affects your life. So if you're thinking, you know, if this consumes your life, then it could be something that it could be that it's this this mental health condition. And it's kind of, you know, again, it's like it's a spectrum.

And so why is it the we need that kind of, is it that we that we need that validation to say, what you're going through is difficult and hard, and it's valid, no matter what, if you are distressed about something, it's difficult and valid, full stop. And, you know, maybe having a diagnosis is comforting, like it was to me when I got my in a confirmation that I had PTSD symptoms. So I'm just curious, I'm just curious, you know, there's no, you know, you're not wrong for wanting to have a label. I mean, I wanted to label but it's kind of interesting. It's interesting, right? How sometimes it's not helpful. And it's sometimes people they don't want that. They don't want to say I you know, what I had, oh, I have something which, you know, it's written about in a book, and, and people say it's bad, you know. So something about about this as well, that I found very interesting is this bit published in 1994. DSM four defines BDD as a preoccupation with an imagined or trivial defect in appearance, a preoccupation causing social or occupational dysfunction, and not better explained as another disorder such as anorexia nervosa nervosa, published in 2013, the DSM five shifts BBD to a new category of obsessive compulsive spectrum, and operational criteria, such as repetitive behaviors or intrusive thoughts and notes, the subtype muscle dysmorphia, dysmorphia, preoccupation, that one's body is too small or insufficiently muscular only.

So, what I found found interesting about that is this line here defines BDD as a preoccupation with an imagined or trivial trivial defect in appearance. So that idea imagined or trivial. So, if someone is, it makes me think about anorexia. So you know, anorexia, when we think about anorexia, we think of People who are often right, but most anorexia is in people who are not fitting. But people don't get their diagnosis because they are fat and so well, but you can't be anorexic because you're fat. And it's classified as atypical. And anorexia is basically anorexic. But you're not fit, which is ridiculous. No other mental health condition has a weight weight limit on there. So it's kind of like similar to the anorexia thing is that you get the diagnosis, diagnosis of your body is normative. And so if you are a thin person and you lose weight, then that's a problem. If you and you have, you know, all the other things,

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behaviors associated with anorexia, if you are a fat person, and you are exactly the same, you don't often get that diagnosis of anorexia, because you have a bigger body. And I wonder if a fat person was really obsessed about the quote unquote, floor of their fat, that that would just be seen as something good and seen as something healthy because society views it as a floor. And so you know, this imagined floor this, you know, society decides what a floor is. And, and so therefore, if society says being flat fat is a floor, someone could have BDD, but people are encouraging it. You know, someone same with anorexia? Well, if you're fat, then who fucking cares? Because, you know, it means that you're not eating food, and that's good for everybody. And, you know, if you're obsessed about your body is too fat and you know, you can have a fat body and you could be imagining it to be a bigger than it is. Or you could just be imagining that fatness is this really, really awful, awful thing. And I wonder how many times you know people are like, well don't get too obsessed, but kind of keep obsessing, obsessing good amount, you know, like, obsess enough so that you become thin. No. And so I found that, that really interesting of like, what is a flaw? You know, and how often will it not be, you know, diagnosed and here they say always under diagnosed. And I bet you it's way under diagnosed, in fact, people. And by the way, in here in the Wikipedia page, it says the treatment is medication and therapy, and then self improvement.

So for many people with BPD cosmetic surgery does not work to alleviate the symptoms of being particularly BDD, as their opinion of their parents is not grounded in reality, it's recommended that cosmetic surgeons and psychiatrist psychiatrist work together in order to screen surgery patients to see if they suffer from BDD, as a result of surgery could be harmful for them. And it says with medication, antidepressant medication, cognitive behavioral therapy are considered effective. So yeah, and so those things do so imagine my with therapy, you can do therapy, you've got your, you know, antidepressant. And also, you're not learning about how fatphobia and diet culture plays a role in the way that we think we need to look how that could also, you know, we might be missing that thing too. Like a lot of people. Like I did, I went to therapy, and for a long time and was like, I just don't like my body and my, my, my kind of the, the outcome of that was, I just need to keep trying hard to get thin. Versus I need to unlearn fat phobia because the therapist didn't understand about fat phobia, they were fat phobic. They were in diet culture, right. And so, you know, when I came to the conclusion of, I think I just need to try harder. Then they weren't like, huh, let's explore that more. I you know, I can't remember if they were like, Good idea, Victoria, but I you know, maybe I was challenged. I can't remember but I don't remember ever.

You know, I came to the fatphobia conclusion myself. from social media, Thank fuck for social media. Yeah, so in summary of all of that, my guess is to no matter what if you have a mental health condition, if you have low self esteem is to throw support at yourself if you can, and to unlearn fatphobia and to understand diet culture, and you know, is that enough? Is that enough for you? And learning this stuff could be enough. Well, you might need to see You can get into therapy. Or you might need to see if you can get medication. I don't think there is a kind of one thing fits all right and kind of exploring what is what works for you. Like and learning. Luckily, I was able to get out of my binging disorder just by getting out of an abusive relationship and allowing myself to eat food. Now, I was still deeply disordered around food, but I wasn't to the point where I was thinking about it 23 hours a day, you know. So So yeah, so what impact is it having on you? Either way,

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it's valid. If you're in distress, and you're in distress, and if you need a label, then that's that's valid too. I did. And if you don't want a label, then that's valid as well. So okay, I hope this was helpful. Thank you for hanging out with me today and I will see you in the next episode. I'm going to go and sit in my air conditioning bedroom for a while and and sweat Alright, have an amazing day. See you later oh thanks for listening to the episode and if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to fears fatti Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body, then go to first fatty.com forward slash waitlist again, that is phase fatty.com. Forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first fatty Academy my signature program opens