Episode 116 Transcript

Read transcript alongside audio.

Welcome to the Fierce Fatty Podcast. I'm your host, Victoria Welsby and this is episode 116. Today, we're talking about is there a "gamechanging" new weight loss drug.

I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident fifth party who loves every inch of this jelly. society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the first fatty podcast Let's begin.

1:20

Hello, hello, welcome to the episode. I'm your host, Vinnie Welsby. I do realize that I need to change many things where it's got my old name on it. But I can't be bothered bogged recording a new intro. So actually, it's not actually that difficult, but you're not I mean, you don't realize how your name is everywhere. So just Just hear me saying when I say Victoria, you hear me saying Vinny or cron just do that. Transport trans transpose in your head. I got a funny message from summer. In in in yesterday. And it is important that we include this last episode, silly yet last episode talking about TV shows and whatnot. And summer sent a frantic message.

Well, I don't know if she was frantic when she sent it. But let's pretend she was frantic. She messaged I realize we fail to talk about how the women on friends always wore thin shirts with their rock hard nipples showing. Do you remember that? It may be one of my life's biggest regrets that we forgot this key point and then crying laughing emoji. I responded lol No, I didn't remember that. Do you think they were wearing prosthetic nipples? Someone responded either that or they iced them between scenes. And I say maybe they had some boy whose job it was like a fluffer in porn films. In case you don't know that term. fluffer in porn productions, there might be someone who is not a an actress sock door, or gender neutral. Um, so gender neutral is probably actor. It's not their job to be on film, but their job to maybe like suck off someone to make sure that their deck is hard in between scenes. That's the fluffer anyway, so maybe they had floppers fluffing their nipples in between. And then someone sent me the Reddit there's a whole Reddit thing about it as a newbie to friends, what is it with all the nipples? And I said LOL LOL Oh my god. And then this is even better. My Google autofill summers Google autofill was Why are Rachel's nipples always showing in friends? And here's the answer. She says. Did you know that friends his producers told Rachel and Monica to cut holes in their bras to show their nipples? You do know? Do you do know she made wardrobe cut holes in her bras so nips would show turns out that's a rumor. Jennifer Allison has said that that didn't happen. She just that's just what happened to her nips had just had nips, we're just there sometimes also somebody somewhere is a new show on HBO and so far has great representation leaders a fat female comic I'm only three episodes in but I love it. So there's a little tip for you. I said oh my god, I can't believe it. Maybe I should do that to my eyebrows but the holes would be pointing down so much point. I wonder why they didn't get fee me to do the same. Were her nips not good enough. So my response Good question. She was the kind of quirky quirky character versus sexy and I responded funny. Women don't have nipples. Don't you know? Someone says they can't possibly. And I said I think you should add this as an addendum to the podcast when you release it as the world needs to know This info someone says I will.

So now you know to about the friends his nipples. If that was on your mind and you're like, oh my god summer and Vinnie are definitely gonna be talking about the nipple situation in friends and we didn't and you were like, Oh, I'm so dizzy right around. There you go. You have it and if you didn't even know about the nipple situation like me, because obviously at the time, I just was like there's nipples and it gave me such nipple I remember at the time being like something wrong with my nipples while my nipple showing as like a 14 year old. Oh my goodness. And you remember at the time as well. A little bit later, in Sex in the City, there was an episode where Samantha put in prosthetic nipples to get a guy to have sex with her. And that was on one of the Reddit things I said oh yes. Remember? I think nipples were just really hot in the in the 90s.

5:56

Maybe they're making a comeback. Who knows? But either way, there you go. There you have it. There you have it. So this this fine day this fine call gets sunny day I was interviewed by Lucy Edwards who is a trainee journalist at the University of Sheffield. And Lucy has got an interest in in fat shit. Great interview where Lucy was asking about atypical anorexia and the connection with the new new I've I've spoken about it before, like forever 25 ish episodes ago that but it's kind of new in the UK, the new drug where weight loss in beer quotation marks drug. And, you know, the idea of prescribing atypical anorexia, anorexic people, a weight loss drug, and like the harm that it can cause atypical anorexia, if you're not sure what that is, it just means anorexia. infinte in fat people. So it's just anorexia. So a typical oh my god, fat people don't eat. How weird is that sarcasm by the way. So I am going to read you the a piece from The Guardian, which talks about this game changing new drug. And I'm going to it's not long, but I'm going to point out the problems here. Then you can listen to the interview with Lucy. And then I'm going to wrap it all up with all the juicy of what we've learned about this. Yeah, because there's been a lot of hubbub in the UK about this drug. It's called weego. V. And it's been approved by nice and nice is the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence. Not a lot of excellence going on with these recommendations and approving of this drug unfortunately.

But of course, the people that nice the people everywhere suffer from fatphobia. So of course, they're going to do everything they can to cure this illness, this lifelong condition that is fatness, even if it means killing fat people who cares about them dying, at least not on the planet. Okay, yeah, so trigger warning if you don't want to hear fat phobic fuckery. I'm going to I'm going to edit out the Oh words and just replace them with fat or fatness and so you're not going to hear the Oh words but you're going to hear the presumptions about fatness which I'm going to talk about so if that's not feeling good for you to do then skip just skip on skip on and just stay for the nipple talk and then leave and then you see in the next episode, but if it is okay, let me read this piece from The Guardian. Okay, so this was from eight the PIP 2022. Quote, game changing and quote, weight loss drug to be made available on NHS NHS National Health Service. Nice approves use of Semih glue tide opening door to new treatment for 1000s of adults with fatness. So semaglutide is the drug and then we go V is like the brand name. Okay, so 1000s of people with fatness in England will be able to get a new weight loss drug on the NHS after a watchdog approved its use patients The Weekly injections have seen their weight fall by an average of 12%. In one year, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence nice set. Okay, so, first off weekly injections. Sounds fun. But hey, when I was when I was hating my fatness if someone said weekly, will you go and eat a dog shit in the hopes of being thin? Fuck yeah, I do it weekly. Would you inject human shit into your eyeballs? Yes, I would. So,

10:42

you know, a weekly injection. That's fucked. But I can imagine it's not a huge barrier to people who are desperately wanting to be thin. And okay, so I've seen their weight four by an average of 12%. So what that means 12% is the study shows that's about 20 pounds 20 pounds. Game Changer. I mean, any, anyone could lose 20 pounds quite easily. Especially when we're starting out dieting, you know, lose 20 pounds in a couple of months to lose, I lose 20 pounds when I do a big fucking shit. So you know, 20 pounds. I don't think that 20 pounds is the game changer that fat people are looking for. Right? When they're looking at about game changing amounts of weight loss, they're thinking 50 100 more, right. And so if we begin to scratch the surface, just a little bit, then it's like, oh, oh, that sounds good. Okay, continuing, it has issued draft guidance recommending some semaglutide also known as we go V for adults with at least one weight related condition, such as obstructive sleep apnea, or heart disease and a body mass index of APT at least. I won't say what the BMI is. Okay, big problems with that short paragraph there. Can you spot what they might be? health related conditions? Okay. Okay, Health Related. Related. Correlation is not causation. So fatness is not causing sleep apnea. Let's go and have a look at obstructive sleep apnea on the Hayes health sheets.com The Health sheep library. Okay. And let's see what causes sleep apnea? Is it that we are fat bastards. And if we lose weight, then all of a sudden we will not have obstructive sleep apnea. Okay, let's have a look what causes it according to his health sheets, there are several causes for obstructive sleep apnea, decrease in Apple, upper airway muscle function, structural upper airway factors. cranial facial structure was it which is often hereditary, soft tissue structure, including tongue size, pharyngeal walls, and soft tissue of neck often hereditary fluid in soft tissues of neck caused by medical conditions. Oh, hang on a minute. Just is it fatness? No. Okay. And so how do we treat? Obstructive sleep apnea? Is it weight loss? Weight loss? Oh, let's have a look. Overview. Breathing therapy, so CPAP Airway Pressure devices, oral appliances, so dentists stuff.

And in small number of cases, you might as a last resort, need a surgery. None of that is to do with weight loss. And so this this this from The Guardian is saying, Well, if you have sleep apnea, and you're fat, you're going to get this drug because only your one Sleep apnea is caused by fatness and being 20 pounds lighter is going to cure your sleep apnea. Okay, not evidence based. Let's let's look at heart disease. Let's have a look at heart disease. But but above. Top one on here, top one on here. Okay, so genetics and environmental Aflac factors can play a major role in the development of heart disease. Still, fat patients often have to deal with doctors blaming their body size for the same issues that also affect a thin people. That's counterproductive to good medical care.

15:18

Yeah, so there's lots of different there's four different types of heart disease. And none of them are caused by fat people being really horrible people. And nothing two thing to remember is that straight size people also get heart disease surprise over it. straight sides. People also have sleep apnea, surprise, surprise. So are straight sides people also going to qualify for this. This drug this weight loss drug? Hmm. Well, that's how you fix these problems, isn't it? Hmm. Strange. No, let's continue in exceptional cases, some people with a BMI of a lower BMI or more may also be able to access the drug which is self administered using a pen in Jack tall. More than one in four people in England have fatness which means having a BMI of x or above. fatness can be physically debilitating and lead to severe and potentially life limiting conditions. It costs the NHS and the wider economy billions of pounds a year. I mean, these that those two sentences are just fraught with inaccuracies, and presumptions, and is not helpful. So it costs this whole thing. It costs the NHS so much money. How, how, how, of course, fat people are gonna cost the NHS money. It's a large percentage of the population. It's like saying, men cost the NHS loads of money. Boy, Yeah, no shit. It's half of the population. You know, all people cost all the way. You know. Yeah. People with brown eyes cost the NHS billions of pounds. What? Well, yeah. It's competing a human. And, you know, in what ways in what ways and a lot of times you know what, so so often when a fat person dies, their cause of death, if they're fat, is I word the cause of death is fat. It doesn't matter, you know, what was going on? If especially if they have diseases that are linked to fatness than one 100% and the cause of death is fatness. Whereas if a thin person has this exact same disease that causes death won't be fineness, you know? And so it's like, oh, look at all these people dying of fatness? Are they? Oh, are they dying from things that everyone else does wrong? You know, and saying that fatness can be physically debilitating. It's just reeks of ableism and just just, it's just gross leads to severe bouts of and lead to severe and potentially life limiting conditions. I mean, it's it's a human condition, right? It's, it's just, it's the human condition to you know, eventually, maybe having a life limiting condition and then dying. You know, it's like, can we we can change this with live living can be physically debilitating and lead to severe and potentially life limiting conditions. Yeah, uh huh. You know.

Anyway, let's continue. The new drugs suppresses the appetite through mimicking the hormone glucagon clue glucagon like peptide, one GLP. One, which is released after eating painscience patients inject themselves with some semaglutide which makes them feel full, meaning they eat bless and lose weight. Now nice little appetite suppressant. Because we all know that fat people are fat. Every fat person is fat, because we cannot stop eating. We're out of control with food that's all we do day and night as he didn't he didn't. So much that we can't control ourselves so much. So very kind NHS has had to come up with a way to help us poor fatties with our constant eating. And thank God they've come up with this drug that is going to suppress our appetites because that's what's gonna make us thin. We can't do it ourselves. And so we need an intervention to help us stop being so fucking greedy. Um, that was all sarcasm by the way. If if you didn't get that bit.

20:02

Yeah, so there's two things there to two things that are presumed that fatness is a result of eating too much food. And fineness can be induced by not eating food. Not eating as much food as what apparently we eat all the time. Both are wrong. So here's a quote. We know that management of fatness and fatness is one of the biggest challenges of our health, our health service is facing with nearly two thirds of our adults either FAT or FAT. Said Helen Knight, the Program Director in the Center for Health Technology Evaluation at nice. Okay, so management of something that doesn't need to be managed management of a disease that isn't real. And it's not it's not the biggest challenges challenges our health services facing. There are so there are so many ma me the biggest challenge in the way that we think about fatness Yeah, yeah. I think the bigger challenges are things like lack of access, racism, discrimination, health care, mental mental health care. Right Wing thinking about how we treat people, they are the biggest challenges to healthcare, right? Lack of funds, etc. Okay, continuing. It's a lifelong condition that needs medical intervention has a psychological has psychological and physical effects, and can affect quality of life. Yeah, the psychological effects of because you say it's a it's a lifelong condition that needs medical intervention. There are no it's not a condition because the only thing that fat people have in common with each other is that they are fat, we cannot say okay, this is what we classed as we know that there is a disease here because the only indicator is fatness, you know, we can't say okay, we know that this is disease because people have abc, and this is how we ignite we diagnose it because one fat person, one fat person's health is going to be different from another fat person's health. It's like saying, hey, oh, you know this disease of living with blonde hair? What's the common attribute? Blonde hair? Well, no, that's not that's not how it works. Okay, continuing. The nice document says access to current drug treatments for fatness is limited to specific to specific population who have pre diabetes and a risk factor for cardiac cardiovascular disease. Other drug treatment options available are poorly tolerated and rarely used.

So we've spoken about it before, even in recent episodes, the idea of pre diabetes that a teeny tiny percentage of people who have pre diabetes go on to develop diabetes, again, diabetes is a genetic condition. It's just shit on top of shit on top of shit. Yeah, it's the Committee concluded that there is a large unmet need for many people living with fatness and that cemetery semaglutide would be a welcome new treatment option. Nice said people from a South Asian Chinese or black African or Caribbean black background, would be able to access the drug at a lower BMI after advice from a medic, because, of course, we need to put in a bit of racism there. So let's hurt people who are marginalized, let's give them the, the the drug versus let's look at actually what's happening. You know, like how people with with marginalized identities people you know, with the merchant in here, South Asian, Chinese, black African Caribbean have can have worse health outcomes. We look at why, you know, like the stats about black parents who give birth Have you know higher mortality, you know, higher risks, all that type of stuff. Is it because of who they are? No. Is it because of bias racism and bigotry? Yes. So how is increasing the bias by forcing a drug But it's gonna hurt, hurt these populations and do the opposite of what it's trying to achieve.

25:09

How is that not increasing bias? How is that not hurting them? Even more. So yet again, people of color are getting the short end of the stick yet again, due to bias versus saying, why are people from a South Asian, Chinese black, African or Caribbean background? Having worse health outcomes? If they are, let's fix that. Versus always because it's because of the color of their skin. And so, you know, continuing patients will only be given semaglutide on prescription as part of a specialist weight management service involving input from several professionals, and for a maximum of two years.

26:02

And what do we know about what do we know about weight interventions that happen? Two years, two years? What happens? Two to five years? The way goes back on? So what are these people going to do these? Oh, my goodness, these people who are taking an ejection every single week, for two years, they lose 20 pounds? And do all the stuff that intentional weight loss does to a human body? Fuck up your metabolism? increase your risk for health conditions? fucks with your mental health lalalalala? Or what are they gonna do after the two years? See you later. You know, we're done with you. Now off you go. What's gonna happen is, are they gonna put weight back on because the treatment has stopped? And even during the treatment, our bodies are going to be like, Oh, I don't like this what's going on? an appetite suppressant every week. Imagine if someone said to you, oh, you know, I saw those. Those those those teas on Instagram, where it helps you shit your pants, I'm going to take that every single week for two years, you'd be like, Oh, please don't Oh, great for your health. This is what this is, right. And the thing is, the thing is the thing that guess how much data we have, guess how much research these motherfuckers did. 1.3 years, we have 1.3 years of research of what happens to people on this drug. Presumably because the information they're presenting shows that after 1.3 years, people start putting weight back on, even though they continue to take the drug. So it's not even as good as a bog standard, you know, diet, where we're like, kind of about to wish is 18 months to issues where the weight starts coming back up.

So and then the side effects from this the side effects, the one that kind of really made me shudder was suicide ideation alongside a whole host of other things. So, you know, can people tolerate taking this for two years? I mean, aside from the fact of having an injection every week, because like I mentioned, you know, I would do anything, I would do anything. Are they going to survive that two years though, without killing themselves? Like serious question here. And all for a 20 lb temporary weight loss. Okay, continuing clinical trial evidence show that people lose more weight with summer glue tied together with supervised weight loss coaching, than with support alone. I mean, supervised weight loss coaching. So you're going to be doing both at the same time, you're going to be taking this thing and you're going to be dieting, I mean, this thing is is you know, forcing a diet on you, but then presumably people are going to be not eating enough outside of what they are eating to make up for the fact that they're not eating you know. And then presumably, they're going to be you know, forcing themselves to over exercise and other things that you They hoped might induce extra weight loss makes me sick. Experts have previously described the drug as a quote game changer and suggested that for the first time people could achieve through drugs what was only previously possible both through weight loss surgery. Oh for fuck sake. And again, the saying is only possible through weight loss surgery. And as we know, weight loss surgery is Whoa, all kinds of fucked up often doesn't lead to long term weight loss. incredibly awful side effects so many stories of people saying that they regret it terribly. You know, a lot of time short term weight loss surgery, survivors are happy.

30:50

And even long term Some are happy. But many more often than not, they're not, you know, having their body mutilated in that way in the hopes of losing weight and it doesn't work like that. Continuing in 2020, Boris Johnson launched the government's anti fatness strategy, which includes plan for a ban on TV and online adverts for food before 9pm and ending deals as buy one get one free on food, which has salt, sugar and fat. Oh, great way to penalize poor people. Because we know that again, fatness is caused because poor people go and get a buy one get one free deal. And they eat too much. No, no, talk about increasing the shame and stigma. We can't show food on television because you know, people are just gonna like it and just go out and eat it even more. Because you know, fat people don't have control over themselves. And they're just so greedy. That's the end of the article there. I want to take a minute here just to like I'm just fucking fed up with this shit. Just have some breaths, and exhale the fat phobic bullshit from my body because it's getting online.

32:19

It's it's both just to like, get rid of that fat phobic bullshit.

32:27

Let's go to the interview with Lucy I'll link to Lucy's Lucy's contact and work because Lucy has done other cool things. You can find Lucy on Twitter at ln e journaux, J OU and Jo, you are an O so lne journaux on Twitter and Instagram at Lucy spell el UCEA y. Okay. But I'll link to that in the show notes too. So you don't have to go looking. Let's go to this interview.

33:09

So tell me a little bit about fat activism then just in general, and about what place it has in your life? Yeah, so

33:17

I would describe myself as a fat activist. And for me, it's just about getting equal rights for fat people. And a lot of a lot of people are like, well, fat people don't deserve equal rights because it's just don't be fat. There you go. Problem solved. And so educating the world on the idea that it's really hard to not be fats, you know, and the reasons why people are fat are in the hundreds. And fat people are not all of these stereotypes that we believe that they are. And so for me, that is what fat fat activism is, is educating people that fat people are just people and they deserve the same goodness that everyone else in the world gets.

34:06

Okay, so moving on to the topic of this new weight loss job, which I'm going to try and not chat too much about because I'm very passionate about the topic myself. So we might have a little bit of a proper chat as opposed to just an interview here. I don't know. So do you know much about the weight loss job? Like is it something that you've said about or Joby? To tell you a little bit about it?

34:28

Yeah, no, no, I know about it. Yeah.

34:30

So what is your general like thoughts on this weight loss job this suppose it gave game changing weight loss job?

34:38

Game Changing? I just feel so sad about it sad for all the fat people who have heard about it and they're like, Oh my God, saying fuck this is the answer to my prayers. And finally and all that hope that these fat people are feeling and All of the glee that the people who have manufactured this, they're like, yes, we've we're going to make so much fucking money. And then the pain that the those fat people are going to feel when they remain fat in the long term when their health is compromised. When this solution which has been touted as game changing, doesn't work and the amount of shame and sadness, they are going to feel afterwards, when they had such a high, so much hope that their, quote, problems could be solved. And it's just, it's just immensely cruel in many, many different ways. So it doesn't make me sad, it makes me sad.

35:44

And a big part of it that they seem to emphasize and all the articles are going around about it is this thing of it being like a BMI thing where over people over a BMI of have access to it. And then it goes to even say that on a case by case basis, this might come down to and then depending on someone's race, it can come down even further. So BMI is often criticized as being really wrong. Could you tell me a little bit about this and about how BMI can be wrong?

36:14

Yeah, because the BMI is 200 years old, created by a statistician astronomer, who said this is not meant to be measuring individuals is a population measurement. And it measured sis white European men, and other time just said, Oh, hey, this is what those bodies what they weigh, generally. And, and then the guidelines of what was, quote, normal or abnormal, were changed thanks to lobbying from diet companies so that the bans were even lower, it's absolutely arbitrary. The five, you know, the five points, literally, those numbers were picked out of the air because they were easy to remember, not because of science, not because it's what health is. And it is just really stigmatizing it. pathologize is fat bodies, it says that there is a way that human bodies should be. And it presumes even the words overweight and obese, obese means haven't eaten until gotten fat. And I mean, that's just fucked up. Because fat people are fat for many different reasons. And the main one being is just a normal way for human body to be. So all around, it's just unscientific, and racist. And just 100% Fucked up.

37:56

So with the headlines, Brandon, the jerk is most exciting. Games changing. It's hard to ignore how much value the media outlets seem to be putting on the idea of being thin and unfairness. Can you tell me a little bit about fatphobia? In general and fatphobia? In the media in particular?

38:16

Yeah. So it's, it's really, really surprising. It's really surprising to me, but then also kind of not when we see we kind of put an amount of trust in publications such as the guardian, to look at the research and and dig in and say, Is this true? Or is this a good headline. And I always presumed that if somewhere like the Guardian was reporting something like this, it was very factual, it was very well researched. But if we just scratched the surface a little bit, we can see that we have journalists who are under stress, who are just trying to pump out interesting pieces, and are just taking the science at face value versus doing a little bit of research to understand it. And I understand why because, you know, we live in a capitalist society where it's kind of like you need to bang out articles and pieces and work, you know, a ton.

And because we live in a fat phobic society, the people making writing these pieces, they have their own biases. And these, these new reports kind of feed into their biases. And so it's kind of like well, of course, this is game changing. Of course, this is a great thing to report on. Without getting critical about this the you know, the information because it just is a part of what they already believe. So yeah, I mean, we are all fat phobic. Even I am, you know, because we live in such an incredibly fat phobic society that it's very, very difficult to don't have bias around people's body size. And that is going to affect everything that we consume media that we consume. Because the people who are making it I've obit,

40:10

there's a lot of misconceptions around sort of weight and health. So could you expand on this, obviously, with the case of like, assuming that a fat person is unhealthy, or a thin person is healthy, that kind of thing? Could you expand on that?

40:25

Yeah. So it's, it's really very well established in our society that, of course, a fat person is going to be unhealthy. What we now know about health, and what we know about weight science is that it's actually very, very complicated. And correlation does not equal causation. Yes, fat people are at a higher risk of developing certain conditions. But what we don't know is that it's having more fat on your body that makes it, you know, makes you get that higher risk, more adipose tissue. What we do know, what we do have good evidence to show is that engaging in intentional weight loss, so going on diets, is a really high risk factor for the the complications that fat people can sometimes encounter. So dieting, access to health care that is subpar. And so fat people go to the doctor, hey, I've got stubbed my toe, and the doctor says, Have you thought about losing weight. So subpar healthcare. And thirdly, shame and stigma, shame and stigma have a ton of impact on our physical and mental health. And so we do have great evidence to show that those three things intentional weight loss, subpar medical care, and the shame and stigma that fat people face has a tremendous impact on health. And so it's not we don't have the evidence to say it's fatness in and of itself that causes health outcomes.

Now, obviously, I want to point out that there are many fat people who are healthy, what is healthy, you know, health is such a complicated subject. And there are many thin people who are not healthy. So we can't tell anyone's health status by their body size. And the more that we understand that health is an incredibly complex topic. And so is weight science, the better and it's not a black and white, you know, you're fat. And the fact that you are the more unhealthy war is just, it's just lazy and out of date science.

42:41

And do you think when the media sort of cover topics like a weight loss injection, do you think it just adds to stigma and it just makes things a lot worse for fat people?

42:51

Yeah, because you know, the company who who are behind this drug, they've gone on this whole campaign to say, oh, fat fatness has a disease don't blame, the fact is that it's not their fault. They're fat. And trying to position it like, oh, you know, be nice to the fat ease. But in that whole process, they are doing the opposite. They're just doing the opposite. And the idea that this drug is basically an appetite suppressant. It just, it reinforces the idea that fat people have fat because they can't stop eating. And if we just help them stop eating, because they can't do it on their own, because they're so greedy and out of control. They need to have a drug because they're so they're so fucked up. And it will help them stop eating. That's what's gonna make them thin, because they can't control themselves. So would they need to take a drug? I mean, if that's not stigmatizing, then I don't know what is.

43:56

And another aspect that I'm sort of interested in, in talking about this is the fact that sort of eating disorders in particular, they come in all sorts of different shapes and sizes, there is not just one look of any disorder. So this kind of thing do you have do you have much of an understanding of sort of atypical anorexia or like a typical in the sense of it being with different weights? Yeah. So do you think that this kind of thing is even more out of touch and even more harmful to people who were experiencing eating disorders that don't have the stereotypical eating disorder? Look?

44:33

Yeah, I mean, oh, my goodness. Even even that word atypical anorexia, I think we need to get rid of the atypical because anorexia comes in all shapes of shapes and sizes. And as someone who I, I think that in my past, I have suffered from atypical anorexia or anorexia. But, if it's if someone is suffering from an eating disorder, they're they're in a bigger body. They're encouraged. They're just like, good for you for not eating anything and losing weight. But if they're in a smaller body, then all of a sudden it's a problem. And yeah, this presumes that this project so this this drug is presuming that someone has eaten too much food. If you have an eating disorder, you've had that assumption has been made, you're eating too much food, and you're you have anorexia, and you're going in and getting this appetite suppressant. Holy shit, I can't even think of the damage that that is going to cause mentally and physically to those who have an eating disorder. Yeah, especially if they have atypical anorexia. I mean, it's and all the side effects that the drug already already has. It just, it is so risky, it is so damaging, and I think it's gonna cause even more eating disorders in fat people.

45:56

And, as well, I just like to ask you about like a typical anorexia in general. So what's your sort of experiences with it? Like, what do you know about the topic of it, especially for people who are in larger bodies who have it?

46:10

Well, a lot of times, diets are basically the, the blueprint to help people fat people develop atypical anorexia, diets are prescribing an eating disorder. And if you're prone to, you know, if you're prone to soaking up fat phobic messages, which is, hey, if you've got a brain, and you know, you might have other things going on in your life, then it's just very, very easy to slip into something which is disordered. And you know, the idea between an eating disorder and disordered eating that line is very, very thing and a diet basically, is, is prescribing that disordered eating, and, and so it's kind of like you're very close into that, developing whatever it is, and I'm previously I had binge eating disorder. And, yeah, and atypical anorexia, and it's like, no shit, when I'm being told that it's a good thing, that I starve myself. It's a good thing that I deny myself food. No wonder, you know, people develop eating disorders. an atypical anorexia being one of them

47:39

is obviously the case for people who have a typical anorexia as well as a lot of the time, it's really difficult for them to get treatment, because, you know, doctors are quite fat phobic, and a lot of them can be quite fat phobic, and they sort of if you do meet the requirement of being underway, or you won't get Yeah, exactly. You

48:00

just encouraged. Yeah, well, I remember going back to my doctor, him weighing me, I'd lost so much weight, and he was like, congratulations, what did you do? Versus Are you okay? What's happening with you, you know, how's your mental health, I see that you've lost a lot of weight. And that's, that's, that's different. And I'm worried, you know, and it would have been very easily picked up if I was in a smaller body. But in a bigger body, it was just praised. And there's no way if I went in and said, you know, what, I'm just, I'm not eating that much food. And I think about food all the time. And it just, you know, it feels very kind of disordered, then, you know, I can imagine the doctor would just be like, oh, you know, just don't get too crazy with it, you know, just don't go too far. But keep going because you're losing weight. And that is obviously a good thing. So, yeah, and even in eating disorder treatment, there's the the rampant fatphobia is kind of like if someone you know, don't put on weight, but don't put on too much weight. And if you're fat, you know, we manage that way. I mean, it's just even if you do get treatment, it will be fat phobic probably.

49:13

And is this something that sort of extends into all sorts of avenues of life? So aside from like, the therapy routes, and from doctors, like living with an eating disorder, without the stereotypical look, is it something that a lot like is there a lot of stigma that people have to deal with in just general life from other people like with diet talk and sort of gym talk and that kind of thing?

49:36

Yeah, I mean, oh my goodness. Being in recovery from an eating disorder living in a fat body is so fucking hard, because people will not think twice about talking about their new latest diet over lunch or how that has too many calories or, or how we need to burn off the weekend because I had a glass of wine or whatever. And so it makes it very, very difficult. Whereas if someone is in a smaller body and said, hey, you know what, I'm recovering from an eating disorder that I think people would be very mindful about talking about that type of stuff, but with a fat person, then it's kind of like, well, of course, the fat person wants to lose weight, and wants to hear about my new weight loss solution. Because they're fat, obviously, they don't want to be fat. So it's very, very difficult because it's not like you can step into a safe space, where people are not talking about this, this this stuff. Okay, so let me wrap up by just kind of giving an overview of everything that we we've spoken about. So we have it clear in our brains, for if you are in the UK, and I mean, this drug is is us as well, and who the fuck knows where else because it was a worldwide marketing campaign that this company has done to them, what they're doing is saying, Oh, we're all about taking away the stigma of being fat, and taking away the stigma of being it's not fat, people's fault that they're fat.

And then he's not taking away the stigma at all. Okay, so is there a game changing new weight loss drug? So there there's been hubbub in the UK because we go V has been approved for use by the NHS, it's also been approved in the US as well. And so people are a lot of fat people are excited that there is this new drug that's going to make them thinner. So what we know is that the issues with this one, it's based on the premise that fatness is a disease and a lifelong condition that needs treatment. And in reality, fatness is just a normal way for a human body to exist in the world, to it presumes that fat people are fat, because we are greedy, and eat too much food. And that if only we had this mere miracle cure to suppress our appetites, we would then be thin. Three in assumes that fitness equals health. And what we know about this drug drug is that the side effects are long and dangerous. And the longer term side effects have not been studied, because we only have just over a year's worth of data that's been examined, supplied by this company. So yeah, and what we know about long term weight loss drugs is that there are many side effects that include death. So this is going to kill fat people. For there is no evidence that it actually improves health. We don't have evidence improves health, five, it does nothing to address the actual things that hurt the health of fat people. And those things are things that hurt the health of fat people one intentional weight loss, which this is to subpar health care which this is, and three weight stigma. And so that's a shame that fat people face. And so this drug is actually increasing all of those things. So presumably, decreasing the health of fat people. Six, it doesn't actually help people lose much weight loss studies show that the weight loss is about 20 pounds, which for a fat person is certainly not game changing.

53:47

Seven all that in exchange for weekly injections, that when you stop taking the effects is going to are going to be reversed. Or even if you do continue to take for the rest of your life, which you won't be allowed to because the prescription length is only two years, your body is probably going to take over and force you to get back to a higher way because of this appetite suppressant that is going on. And finally, eight. It's a drug to drug that claims to fix a disease that doesn't exist. It doesn't have evidence that it works long time, and that it doesn't cause catastrophic harm, just like every other weight loss drug that we've ever seen on the market that's been approved. And even if it does work long term in the way that it does short term, it's only around 20 pounds that people will lose all in exchange for weekly injections and side effects like increased suicide ideation. This drug is going to kill fat people. And it is going to cause a ton of shame and heartbreak for the fat people who are desperately hoping that it's going to be their miracle cure, and what they're going to do afterwards, they've taken it for the two years and they are the same weight, a higher weight, their health hasn't improved, it's a waste of hope, when we could be seeking to increase our health with interventions that are actually evidence based, like Health at Every Size.

So I think we all need to go and have like, a little sit down I don't know a little kind of like, fuck you to something I don't know. I just have such empathy for the people who are so excited about this, you know, if I was not in this world, and I saw in this, you know, fat positive world, and I saw that, that there was going to be a drug, I would be just daydreaming about what my life was going to be like, when I was going after I would lose weight and how wonderful it's going to be and all sorts of things only for my hopes to be dashed in the next couple of years. Only for my mental health to really see tremendous tremendous pain going on. From from those hopes that are dashed, and the shame of like, what's wrong with me? Why can't Why can't I lose weight even when I have a fucking drug that an injection I'm taking every week? Why can't I lose weight What is wrong with me? I'm disgusting, you know, I can't you know, and the amount of eating disorders that are gonna go to it's gonna create imagine you know like because you know my my history with eating disorder is you know, basically the lack of access to food or physically mentally created binge eating in me naturally because that is what happens and imagine having an appetite appetite suppressant how that's going to add to that

57:09

oh anyway, and let's just make next next episode better happier less raging juicing Shall we will is going to be another episode is going to be the last episode actually with with summer so I don't know what we're going to do it on. summers off summers off going to Ashley is not going to be with summer because summer is off on on on our holiday. So it's going to be a few weeks until we have summer on again. So I know let's make episode something next episode something funny or something? I'm gonna make a note. Trying remember? It's so fucking depressing.

Anyway, okay, well go and watch something go and watch some pictures of cats or something. I don't know. Some penguins, gay penguins making a baby or whatever to make you happy and yeah, we'll see you in the next episode. Stay fierce fatty goodbye crocodile thanks for listening to the episode and if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to fears fatti Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body. Then go to first party.com forward slash waitlist again that is phase fatty.com. Forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first party Academy my signature program opens