Episode 51 Transcript

You're listening to The Fierce Fatty Podcast episode 51 question that I'm answering today is “Do you have seasonal body shame?” I'm your host Victoria Welsby. Let's do it.

I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident Fierce Fatty who loves every inch of this jelly. Society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the Fierce Fatty podcast Let's begin.

It's the first fatty podcast Let's begin. Hello, hello fatti how are you? How's your life? You feeling good? Your rights? Your Rights grades. Amazing. Thank you for being here with me. I so appreciate it. I'm just getting over a cold that my nibbling gave me very rude.

Unknown Speaker 1:52

Children where if you're around children they have any sickness is like, guaranteed that you're gonna get it because they like rub this knot all over their hands and then like reach their hands into the back of your throat. And yeah, sorry if that's like a disgusting image there for you. Yeah, but now today, my voice is sounding a little bit better. We had a call for fear spatty Academy before yesterday. It's Thursday today. So we had it on Tuesday. And it went for two and a half hours. And at the end of it. I was like, my voice is done. And the next day, I couldn't speak and so but today, it sounded alright, isn't it? And maybe even a little bit sexy. So husky? Oh, anyway, I'll stop talking about that update. So last episode, I was telling you how the BBC slash RTE reached out to me to be on a show. And I didn't know whether I was going to say yes or no. And I said it depended on how much they were going to pay me. I believe in being open about how much people get paid, especially everyone I think everyone should be but especially women, or people, anyone who has any type of marginalized identity because something that is used as a weapon, have kind of, you know, you know, when workplaces are like, Oh, don't discuss salary with with your colleagues and stuff. And it's because you know, your male colleague is getting paid like 15 grand more than you so you don't want to discuss it because if you find out then you'll realize that you were getting shafted. So anyway, so the BBC, I spoke to them the day after I quote, the last podcast, and they were like, great, we want you on. You're amazing. Obviously, they didn't say that. Me pretending that they said that. Anyway, they said, We want you on the fee is 150 pounds. And my what I was looking for was 1000. And so I said, No, thank you. And they said, Okay, what about 175? And I said, No, thank you. And then they said, What about 300? And I said, No, thank you. And not to say that that wasn't good money for a theoretically 10 to 20 minute TV segment. But I would have to go there and spend there'll be like a day, a day out of from my business. What I really wanted was some benefit to the potential very triggering and difficult task of dealing with a fat phobe. And my thoughts are, if you're not going to pay me decently, to deal with a bigots await bigots in a high pressure environment, live TV, then it's not worth my time. And as soon as I I kind of came to that conclusion, I just felt really good about it, you know? Whereas before, because you know what they said to me, they said Don't forget about all of the expose Yeah, like classic exposure, exposure. Honestly, it isn't up here. Now, exposure is bullshit, right? Honestly, honestly. So when I did that BBC show last year, and it was 2.6 million viewers, I think. And then since then it's been on the BBC iPlayer. And so I don't know how many people watched it since. But I still do get a lot of people messaging me saying, I watched it. So imagine if your business if you have a business got 2.6 million eyes on it. And of course, not all of them are going to be people who are fat positive. But I presumed with that many people that would have a big impact on my business in regards to revenue and followers and whatnot. And really, it didn't, it really didn't, I might have got a couple of 1000 new Instagram followers, and I got 1000 new subscribers on my email list. But really, for because I didn't get paid to do that. We didn't talk about it. So actually, no, I did talk about it with the other fat positive people. Yeah. So I just thought, you know, what, even if 10 million people are listening to this live thing, how, you know, that exposure is not really worth anything to me. So if someone's saying to you, oh, come and do this thing for free, and you'll get exposure? It's, it's unlikely to really benefit you unless it's I had no Kim Kardashian, sharing your product or something, I don't know it out of these aren't really big, because you just presume, oh, from that amount of exposure, then things are going to be really

Unknown Speaker 6:46

big? And of course, yes. Lots of people have been exposed to my vision, that business, especially over the last year, because of that, but going on this segment, which was going to be difficult and annoying. That 1000 pounds is what I what was what I wanted in exchange for that experience. And it felt good to say, You know what, no, it's good. It's good. But like I said, in the last episode, if someone had come to me, and they said, Oh, we have this other thing, and it's paying 150. But it's like something that positive, I'll be like, Yeah, let's do it. It's great. You know, if it's something that I can fit into my schedule and whatnot, then it's about you know, what, you know, the positives and stuff that you're gonna get from it. And being around weight bigots is not positive for my brain. So yeah, little update for you, I want to share the spill the beans, give you all the details to what's going on a man alive. So you would not have seen me on it when the show was on last night, and I wasn't on it. There we go. I actually said to them, Hey, why don't you contact Dr. Joshua wool rich, he would be good because then it'd be a doctor against a doctor and also a thin white man against a thin white man, which is like a more of an equal fight, even though that is absolutely shit to have a show talking about fat people with no fat people, but because of his white privilege, because of his size privilege, because of his gender. More people would have listened to him, which is, you know, bigotry and action right there. But it would have been a fair fight versus a fat person against a doctor. You see what I mean? So anyway, I message Dr. Joshua will reach on Instagram and said, Hey, by the way, they're going to contact you. And he's like, okay, cool. I don't know if he went on or not. But anyway, doesn't matter is done. So I got an email, I wanted to share it with, you know, from the BBC, not from RTE, from a listener, I want you to read it out here. So it says, Dear Victoria, this is an email from a listener. I've been listening to your podcast a lot lately. And I feel compelled to write and thank you for the work you do. I am currently straight sighs I live in the US and had to look up what that meant after hearing you say a bunch of times, and have been for around 20 years. But I grew up fat and very poor. I was bullied mercilessly as a kid and had innumerable bad experiences at the hands of teachers and doctors because I was fat. And I was on the receiving end, and a lot of fat shaming from my family. And surprisingly, these experiences deeply affected my sense of worth. And I've either lived with an eating disorder or just wildly disordered eating pretty much my whole life for a long time. I think I believe that if I just quote unquote, made it whatever that means. I get over the traumas I sustained when I was fat and quote unquote, move on. Again, whatever that means, but so far, and I'm 41 No amount of objective success like getting a PhD having kids earning a good salary, buying a house etc. Have Touch that deep sense of worthlessness. So, right around the start of the pandemic, I made a hesitant commitment to try and confront these deep issues. I read body kindness, I started listening to podcasts, and which is where I heard you guesting on someone else's show. And it started to seem like there might be another way. But it wasn't fully clicking. It didn't feel fully dot dot dot human question mark to me.

Unknown Speaker 10:29

Like, I'm all about listening to experts. But where, but where was the funny the raw, the hurt that comes along with being fat in this society. None of it quite landed until I started listening to your podcast, which is why I wanted to write and say thank you. I love listening to you talk love you and anecdotes, and you're in brackets, really pretty crappy analogies. Wrong, how rude. That's, that's me. That's me saying that. But. But most of all, I love that you are real about what it means to be in a fat body. It's not all science or politics or media. Sometimes it's just the dickhead you dated forever, because you didn't think that you're worth more, or the jerk Doctor Who told you that you caused your own scoliosis, by being fat that happened to me. It's a real pain. And it's real, really personal. Anyway, I know I'm not your target audience, I have so many privileges as a thin sis, middle class white woman, and I have no intention of CO opting it another space for people like me, but you're really helping me confront my own shit. And acknowledge that I have real healing to do. The laughter you bring to your audience and the generosity in which you share your life and experiences are unique. And I know that I am the not the only person who's not brackets currently fat who is living a better life because they are including you in it, even though you don't know them. Thanks again, Josie. Thank you, Josie. I really appreciate it. That has actually inspired me to sharing some acronyms and definitions. Because Josie mentioned that they had to look up what straight size was. Maybe in one episode, I might have mentioned different. I haven't actually done an episode on definitions, and whatnot. But I thought I'd just let's get them all out here now. So that you've got them. So that moving forward, we're all on the same page of what things mean. Right? And also, it's that was a really nice email to read or like yours. Thank you very much. And also this podcast is centering a fat person me and is centering fat issues. And it's important because how many spaces for fat people are there? Like hardly any, especially spaces for fat people, which is not Oh, it's so horrible. To be fair, let's go on a diet. But the Hating Your Body and fearing being fat. And having weight bias affects like everyone, no matter your size. And so working on this stuff is important for everyone. And also in face fatty Academy which is my my program. It's I let anyone any size person in. But we center fat people and fat bodies. So you know, being mindful of sharing a picture if you're thin of your thin body might be triggering in a fat positive space, things like that. straight sides, people. You're welcome here. You're welcome here. And also, fat bodies are centered here. And yah, yah, yah, yah, yah. So, what is straight sized? What is fat? What is the definition of all of these different Accra acronyms that we have in fat politics, let me share, let me share some with you. So that, you know, and I know, and we all know what's going on, because Josie had to google straight size and straight size is not a British term necessarily. It's something that's used just in the fat positive space around, like, waving my hand around, you know, around around around the place around the place. So first thing, fat. Now I've had this question a lot is Who am I am I am I fat? Am I in this this cool gang of fat people? Um, uh, can I call myself a face by? So for me, there is a one question you can ask yourself to work out If you're fat or not, there is something and I'm going to tell you what that is in a second. But there's something that's that's really cool that Ash from the fat lip, the fat lip is a podcast, go check it out. Ash created something called the fatness spectrum. I'm going to link to the Instagram post that has this in the show notes to get to the show notes, go to facebook.com forward slash 052 For this episode, or you can always just go forward slash podcast and you'll get to the most recent show, okay, so ash from the fat lip has created this, this is this is ashes spectrum. And ash acknowledges this that is, is imperfect, absolutely imperfect. And you can you can call yourself whatever you want, right? So you might identify as a bigger fat or a smaller fat or whatever, okay, you just whatever. It's no big deal, but this is just a guide. And the reason why we use this guide is to understand that someone who is smaller fat is able to move through society a lot easier than someone who is a mid fat, a super fat or an Infini fat. I'll show you what those are in a second. And to recognize that someone who's smaller has a massive degree of privilege. Like, for example, my size I'm I'm a kind of, I'm an I'm a medium fat. That's how I went to the fairground when they with my ex boyfriend, and the last ride, we went on, it got on, all the tenants came around, and they couldn't shut the thing. So I had to get off the ride someone who was a size smaller could have written on that, right. Someone who was a little bit bigger would know that they wouldn't fit in any ride on in the fairground, whereas I fit on some of them.

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So to recognize that it's different, depending on your size, how you experience the world. Now, if a super fat person or Infini fat person goes to the doctor, it's more likely that the doctor is going to be like, Oh, wow, have you considered going on a diet, worried of the smaller fat person, it's still likely that they're going to be prescribed a diet, but it's less likely. So the smaller fat person is experiencing a lot of privilege because of their body size. Now, reminder, privilege doesn't mean that your life is easy, that it's all rainbows and fairy tales. It just means that it's not harder, because that's one facet that you have privilege in. So if you are have a smaller sized body, you have privilege because you can buy clothes from stores, instead of just online, you can fit into chairs, more people would date you, the world is made for you more than if you were a bigger fat person. Or if you're straight size and if you're fat. Okay, so this is the fatness prep spectrum, totally imperfect. Because there's, we're talking about clothes size here. And you know, it's just whatever but it's just you know, it gives you an idea okay, so a small fat person is is is us sizes someone who was a size 1x or 2x or size 18 or lower or in tolerated a size 00 to one. And so underneath here we have finds someone who can find clothes that fit at mainstream brands and can shop in many stores. So that's not me, that's not me. There's one shop that I can shop at when I go to the city. Okay, so mid fat 2x to 3x size 20 to 24 us a torrid size two to three now can shop at some mainstream brands but mostly dedicated plus brands and online. So that's me. Okay, super fat. Super fat is 4x to 5x 26 to 32 toward four to six and super fat. Were the highest sizes at plus brands can often only shop online. Okay, next is Infini fat. I love the word Infini fat it sounds like a superhero. So even if that is 6x and higher 34 and higher some toroid size six, and says very difficult to find anything that fits even online often requires custom sizing. So you see how just in code is how being just a few sizes difference can mean that you have to have clothes made for you, which is bananas, or being able to just go to the local city center, Town Center, mall, shopping center, whatever, and being able to pick up stuff easily. And that's we're just talking about clothes here and think about all the other ways. Okay, so now the first thing here is the small fat was 18 and lower. So does that mean that everyone who's size 18? Us and lower is a small fat? Well, no. But the reason why Ash has not put a lower kind of cap on it and saying, Well, if you're size 16, then you're fat. But if you're size 14, then you're not fat is because bodies are different, right? You like

Unknown Speaker 20:49

someone who can be a shorter person and be a smaller size, but be recognized as fat. So the question that you can ask to work out if you are fat is Have you experienced discrimination, or bias because of the size of your body. And when I say the size of your body, the fact that it is quote unquote, too big. Okay, so it's not discrimination, as in people who said, You're not eating enough food or you're too thin, it's discrimination, and bias around the fact that you are too big. So if you have, you know, maybe your mum one time said, oh, you should really go on a diet. But in the rest of your life, you've been able to find clothes that fit, you've been able to get jobs, most people will date you, you've never had to think about seating options, when you go out places, then you're probably not fat. You might be chubby, you might be straight sized. Who knows, I think you'll know if you've experienced stigma because of your size, because people have viewed you as being too big. And, and it's like, it's no, it's really like no hard and fast rule. But it's important to also recognize that a lot of people use fat as a descriptive word for their feelings. And they say, I'm so fat, I feel fat. And then when you look at them, they are clearly not fat. They're a straight size person, or they are ever so slightly chubby. Right? And that's harmful. But if you, you know, it's if you feel like you have had discrimination and bias thrown at you because of your body size you probably felt so I can't tell you if you're fat or not. If you're clearly if you clearly not fat, you're probably not fat, but you know, whatever. I know you want to be in this cold club or fat if you're desperate to be fat. I know. Some people are like, No, I don't want to be fat. And that's okay. That's that's your, it's your weight bias coming out. Okay, so I mentioned the word straight sides there. And that was something that JC said, what straight sides so straight sides, we say the word straight sides, straight sides, meaning someone who is not fat. And the wheat. The reason why we use the word straight sides versus someone who is thin, is that most people who are straight sighs don't identify with being thin. Unless you know, someone is thin, thin, very small, then they probably wouldn't describe themselves as thin. They see themselves still as too big. And so a lot of people don't identify with that word. Whereas straight size is a really good catch all of saying you're not fat. So you have privilege, right? So that is what straight size means. Now, in that is thin privilege. And then privilege is like we're talking about with with size privilege. It's just another version of size privilege, that if you are thin, and so when we talk about thin privilege, we were talking about straight size privilege. So thin privilege is everyone who's not fat, but we just say thin privilege. You could just say straight size, privilege. thin privilege is just easier to say. So then privilege is you know, everything we talked about that if you go to the doctor and you're sick, the doctor won't put you on a diet. You'll be able to fit in everywhere. You have to buy clothes, you have up to date people and they won't discriminate against you because you're fat, etc, etc. Now, something that we see in the community is something called something called the thins to TM, not everyone does a TM, but I like it because it sounds funny. The Finns, okay? And so people think, Oh, this is derogatory against some people. Now, it's not what we're talking about when people say the Finns is people who are straight sized, who are bigoted, who deny that there's anything called thin privilege, who when a fat person says, Hey,

Unknown Speaker 25:30

don't be bigoted towards me, then a thin person like say, if it's a social media post, one of the things we'll say, Well, I get I get people tell me that I'm really thin all the time. And they tell me to eat food. That is who the thins are. It is straight sides, people who are not educated on weight politics, and they send to themselves in very harmful ways. And there's a difference between someone who's like, Oh, um, I don't understand this concept. Can you explain this to me? And, you know, I'm newer to this and being respectful. Versus if I put a post up saying, Oh, something about thin privilege, you bet a bet guarantee there's going to be thin payable straight sides, people in the comments being like, How dare you say that it's hard to be fat, my life is really hard, because I'm thin. And people have made fun fun of me, because I'm thin. And I'm like, You're missing the point. The point is, be that people are being systemically discriminated against. Fat people die because of weight stigma, thin people, straight size people, that won't happen to right. It's, and of course, it's not okay to say to people to comment on people's bodies, ever, it's not okay to say to a thin person, eat something. But that is not the same as living in a world that hates you because of your size. So when we say the thins TM, we're talking about straight size, bigoted people. So if you're thin, you're not, you're not necessarily one of the things. Does that make sense? If you're straight sized, and you're like, Oh, no fat people are cool, you know, fat people should be, you know, treated like straight size people, then you're not one of the things. So, yeah. Now, you might see things, this acronym IWL. I W L stands for intentional weight loss. Now, this is something that is fairly common. You might see in social media posts. Now the reason why we say intentional weight loss is to distinguish between the fact that sometimes people, people's bodies changes changes all the time, right, you put on weight, you lose weight, your weight stays the same, that's just what bodies do. But when you go on a diet, you are engaging in intentional weight loss. And when you engage in intentional weight loss, then that weight loss is because it's coming from a place of intention, a diet, you're trying to do something to lose weight, that is when that weight loss is not necessarily sustainable. And it's not good for your mental health, your physical health, etc. Whereas, unintentional weight loss, like you're just going about your life, and then one day you realize, oh, I'm I weigh less, I didn't notice. That type of weight loss is not necessarily harmful. You know, maybe you maybe you were sick. And of course, that's not something good. But it's not the same as someone being like, Okay, I'm going to die. And I'm going to do loads of workouts and stuff like that. It doesn't have the same effect on your mental and physical health. But of course, if you've lost weight because you were settling infection, your physical health. Yeah, so there's a distinction there between saying one is, is potentially harmful and one is potentially not harmful. And as well, when you're engaging in intentional weight loss, you are saying that you believe in diet culture, you believe smaller bodies are healthier and better in whatever way and that your body would be better and healthier in whatever way and turning your back on the science. So that's what IW L is about. Now, next, W L S. What does that mean W L s weight loss surgery. So that is what w l So if you see someone who's engaging in IW, L with W L S, then they are engaging in intentional weight loss with weight loss surgery. Now, a lot of times you might see weight loss surgery, and the weight loss is in quotation marks. The reason for that is because the surgery often doesn't lead to long term weight loss. And so it's kind of like, it's not really what it does. So it's kind of quote unquote, weight loss surgery. Because yeah, often doesn't lead to weight loss.

Unknown Speaker 30:31

Okay, BoPo and fat Poe. So I get people asking what these ones are, is easy. body positivity, and fat positivity, just shortened because they're long words, technically the same. So body positivity was about fat positivity, it was about advancing the acceptance of marginalized bodies. And then it was co opted by thin white women, straight sides, white women, corporations and turned into love your body, which it's not, it's a political movement. And so, in response to that, a lot of people don't a lot of people who are fat positive, don't identify with the term body positive. Like, I wouldn't necessarily say body positive, like I'm a body positive person. It I might say that to someone who's totally lay and not into this at all, because it's a recognizable phrase. But I would more identify as being fat positive. So fat positive, is saying, you know, I'm really I'm here for the fats. I'm not here for the fluffy bullshit, you know, love your love your body and buy my soap shit. And like, Oh my God, look at my tiny, teeny tiny little roll on my belly. Like when when I when I crunch over and, and squish my body as much as possible. I get like one millimeter of fat. And it's really important that I show that on the internet for people so that they know that I'm oppressed. So fat positivity is kind of you know, for me, it's saying, Listen, I'm not down with that BS. I'm down for fighting for fat people. And that's what body positivity is to, but it's been co opted, and it's been changed. And now you know how language changes all the time. It's kind of changing into and has changed into white feminism. Okay, so haze, hate je S Health at Every Size. So Health at Every Size. First came around in the 1960s A lot of people think that lindo bacon, coined health every size. They didn't. lindo wrote a book called Health every size. And lindo has never said I'll, I created this or anything, but a lot of people just see that Linda wrote the book, social, they're like, Linda read the blog on it. So Linda was the person, but it's been around for a while. And actually, the copyright is owned by Aster. Here's another acronym for you, a SDAH. As the as the is Association for Size, diversity, and health. So you a lot of times you see Hayes with the with the R, or the C and maybe the RSC probably are

Unknown Speaker 33:39

Yeah. So basically what Health at Every Size is saying is that you don't need to lose weight to engage in health promoting behaviors, and that you can work work towards health no matter what your size is. I E is our next acronym, i e, i e is intuitive eating, intuitive eating, created by Evelyn, AAA and Elise rash, who wrote the book on it in 1995. And has 10 principles. Now a lot of people take these principles, and they turn it into a diet. Intuitive Eating is not a diet. Intuitive Eating is not mindful eating. So you didn't see a lot of people promoting mindful eating as a way to lose weight. And that's not intuitive eating. So mindful eating. Think about like, people like oh, yeah, intuitive eating. It's great. You know, the time where you know, you chew your food 75 times and then you swallow. And like, that's a diet. That's like mindfuck diet. That's not intuitive eating and you're eating is listening to what your body wants, and healing. You're healing your relationship with food by listening to what your body wants, and it's not what a lot of people think. People who do don't get it. They think Intuitive Eating is I'm just going to eat the Twinkies forever and Cheez Whiz and, and blocks of lard and that's what I'm going to eat forever. And that's, that's not what it is. Because if you truly allow yourself to be everything, you know, if you eat 20 blocks large, you probably like now I'm done with a lot now. Now Now I want a variety of food. Not that eating blocks of lard is bad, do what you want to do. But that's not what Intuitive Eating is. Okay? Why we Asterix the O words and why we say the O word. So the O words are overweight and obese. Now, when we write it out, where the E is the first e in overweight, and the E in obesity, we will put an asterix when we write it out. The reason is because it is a slur those words are a slur and we don't you know, I don't even like to say them. And when I do i i will say quote unquote, I hadn't I didn't just then but you know, we're talking about it, because they are slurs, they're not they're not accurate. They're made up or words are made up but they are not accurate descriptions of what human bodies are. Obesity means to have eaten until gotten fat. Do people who are classed as obese is that is that their reality? Is that why people are fat? No is the answer. There's there's literally hundreds of reasons why people are fat. And and none of them are the quote unquote fault of that person. And also the categories. This comes from the BMI scale. Right. Those words come from the BMI scale their BMI scale, was created over 200 years ago. By Adelphi quick twiddly with Luna. I don't know how to say his last name, quartet it quillette Coletta. I know this is just off the top of my head, right? And who was not a doctor, not a physician and mathematician who said, let's look at the size of human bodies, looked at European white males and said this is this is what genuinely European white males look at. And even at the time, he said, listen up here now mother Viagens, don't be using this as an indicator of health, especially on individuals, because it is looking at statistically body sizes of white European men cisgendered men and but then insurance company came along was like, Oh, by the way, it's like money, let's tell fat people that they're gonna die. And then. And then that's the term, morbidly obese came around when a doctor was like, oh, we need to come up with a word that's really scary to make people think that they're about to die. And so they said, Oh, add on morbidly, onto obese. And then that's how that came about. And the categories have been shifted to be smaller and smaller throughout the years. So the insurance companies can make more and more money. And it's not a good indicator of health at all. Especially on the individual level. So anyway, those Oh, words are offensive. They medicalized bodies. They

Unknown Speaker 38:29

make it so that fat bodies are seen as diseased and problematic, and I'm not, we're amazing. Okay, let's Well, fat musea FATMISIA or fat music, fa TMISIC. So this is something as a word that is an alternative to fat phobia, or fat phobic. And the reason why people are using this word more and more, although I've only seen it a few times. And I just thought, oh, it's an alternative to fat phobia. And now looking into it. Learning why there is this new alternative. I say new it's been around for years, right? But these things take a while to catch on. So fat phobia. The word phobia is a fear, right? phobia is a real disability, right? If you have a deep fear of something and it's debilitating towards your life, that is a mental illness. Now, when we talk about fat phobia, we know we know we're not talking about people who are like, Oh my god, I'm scared of fat people. We know that we're talking about weight bigots, right. But by using that word for Obeah we're suggesting that those people have a mental health condition. And in turn, this is reinforcing negative stereotypes against those with mental illness. So it's an ableist term to say that they have a phobia which is a mental illness and saying there's something wrong with them. They, I mean, like, there's something wrong with them in regards that they're bigots. They are hate mongers. And the word Maziar? I think it means Hey, yeah, I think it means Hey, yeah, hatred of fat people prejudiced against fat people. So, and that's really what it is right is people who don't like fat people, they hate fat people. And as well, with phobia, fat phobia. I always say like, really, it is true that we have a deep, deep, deep fear of being fat. And, but not in the sense of a true phobia. I'm sure there are people who are actually, you know, in the truest sense of the word, fat phobic. But that probably comes from bigotry. I don't know people are phobic of lots of different things, right? Yeah, so I actually had a conversation with Reagan Chasteen. My idol from dancers with fat is Reagan's website. Absolutely incredible writer. I'm just, I love it though. Watch. She's really funny as well. So Reagan, just saying I had a conversation with her.

Unknown Speaker 41:46

And this is what she said, a conversation over Facebook Messenger. So I said to her, what do you think about fat phobia versus fat? miseria? And she said, this is an interesting question. I've definitely seen the term fat miseria being used and looked into it. I think there are two prongs to this. For me. The first and most important is that the idea that using phobia as we do in terms like fat phobia, homophobia, etc, is harmful to those who have phobia. phobias. The second is the terms usefulness in my activism. For the first I thought about this a lot. Even before the term, I saw the term fat miseria in regards to phobia being ableist. Understanding, of course, that people with phobias are not a monolith. And that there's always a possibility that I am wrong, I do not find it to be a serious issue. The dictionary lists two separate definitions for phobia, which I think is reasonable and clear. And I do not believe that the use of one is impacting negatively the use of the other as an activist who is fat and queer. I've personally made the decision to continue using terms like fat phobia, and homophobia in my activism, because they are commonplace and clear, per the definition, and aversion towards dislike of or disrespect for a thing, idea, person or group. Since miseria, isn't common knowledge, it would put me in the position of having to do extra labor, each time I use them. There are many terms which I don't use, and for which I always try to do the labor of educating when I do see them, including and especially terms that aren't as aren't part of my personal identity. And if miseria becomes more commonplace, I may well switch to using it. But for right now, I've decided not to personally take this particular take on this particular additional labor. So that's, that's really interesting from from Reagan, and I, I agree like fat phobia, we all know what that is. Right, but whereas fat missier We like Reagan says, it would be an extra, it'd be a barrier, it would be a barrier to doing this work. And it kind of reminds me of the barriers when it comes to formal education. And you know, when people are writing papers, and books and whatnot, and it's very academic, and you can't get through it, because it's just not written in language, which is easily understandable. And I don't want any barriers to be in place where people don't understand what I'm talking about when it comes to fat phobia. But also, I want to be cognizant that some people may not like that term, and also using a different variety of terms as well to explain what I mean terms that other people might use as well like weight stigma or white weight bias and And so so if you see that in in spaces and that is what that means. It's a more inclusive word to say someone is a massive bellend fat Musiah fat, my Zia, fat Knizia. So, yeah, you want to talk about Tom Hanks? I do. So I want to talk about Tom Hanks because he has got a juicy lesson. I know. America's America's dad, America's uncle. I wish Tom Hanks was my uncle. So we're gonna be talking about why Tom Hanks can teach us a massive lesson. And that lesson is not just how to dance on a giant piano. How we can harness this one single lesson to create huge positive impacts on our body confidence and knowing why. Knowing why is life changing, literally. And by the way, in this section here, I'm going to be talking about feeling like I want to not be alive or or how this stuff is life threatening. Hating Your Body is life threatening. And so if that is a trigger for you, then know that that's coming up on I don't go into detail. I just say this stuff could kill me sort of thing. But it's in there.

Unknown Speaker 46:25

So let's talk about it. But why? Time? Tom Hanks has the answer. What are you talking about Victoria? Okay, so Tom Hanks, Tom Hanks. I just hope I hope never news comes out that Tom Hanks is like a predator. Right? You know, Tom Hanks being one of those those people who were who you're like, they're just a good person. They're good rosin. Let's hope they stick and don't turn out to be a massive bellend another version of that is Will Smith for me? I'm always just like, Will Smith. He's just so a good guy. I think so. Anyway, what about Tom Hanks today not worried about so a film that I absolutely love? If you don't know me already, I love films right film that I absolutely loved when it came out. And I've watched it probably five or 10 times is castaway. Now if you've not seen Castaway Don't worry, I'm not gonna give away the plot. I watched the trailer to make sure like in the trailer, you kind of know what the plot is. So I'm not gonna give away anything. That's not all in the trailer already. But you know, it's been out 20 years. So you had you've got you've had a fair time to watch it if you haven't already. So Tom Hanks is starring in his film right castaway. So cast away. What it is is Tom Hanks. His character is called Chuck Noland, and he works for FedEx. And on Christmas. He is called away last minute to do a FedEx delivery in an airplane and the airplane crashes. He ends up abandoned on this desert island in the middle of nowhere. So Tom Hanks, he is in a relationship with someone called Kelly. So Kelly drops them off at the airport at Christmas. And they're in the car and they say I love you. And Kelly gives him his Christmas present which is her grandfather's pocket watch you know those kind of like old timey pocket watch the you know, you press a button and the top flips open. And inside when you open it is a picture of her. And he says he sets it to Memphis time and he says he's always going to keep it on men's Memphis time, which is where Kelly is Tom Hanks leave and he says I'll be right back. So he's stranded alone on this desert island. He has the pocket watch. And the only other things that he has are packages, the FedEx packages that came from the plane. So most of them were destroyed, but some of them wash up onto the shore. And most of them contain rubbish that you can't use. But some things you might be able to use just like a little bit. So one of the things in it is a volleyball, the brand Wilson and Wilson becomes his friend and so Wilson is kind of like this, his buddy that's on the island with him. And actually I named my cat Wilson after the volleyball in castaway. So I was like this film a lot and it is a good film. It scores close well on Rotten Tomatoes.

Unknown Speaker 49:44

So during the time on the island, we know from the trailer that he eventually managed to escape the island, but he's on there for four years and he experiences great difficulty so when he when he first get lands on the island He has nothing, right? Just a few clothes, his pocket, watch those parcels. And he has to learn how to find shelter and to find food and water and create fire. And not only like the basics of living, but also like looking at his brain and like mentally emotionally surviving. Without much hope. His hope you can see in the film is He keeps looking at this pocket watch, and this picture of Kelly, his partner back in Memphis. And when he's having a bad time, and when he feels like he's losing his mind, he looks at that picture of Kelly. And he survives because he had a reason to survive. He had a why Kelly was his why. And because he had a why he didn't just give up, which is what a lot of people would do in that situation, understandably, he was able to overcome injury, hunger, thirst, fear, exhaustion, loneliness, insurmountable odds, because he had this, this person to go home to. And he had that. That why to survive. Why because I get to see Kelly again, and the Kelly's a love of my life. So the reason why I tell you all of that is that we all have a why, for why we are doing things, even if we don't realize it. Okay, so we all have a Y, like a capital W Y. So connecting with your Y is super important. So you have this metaphorical pocket watch. To remind you why you're doing this. Doing this when I say doing this, working on getting rid of fat phobia and diet culture from your break. So my why, personally, me for why is it that I needed to love my body? Why is it that I needed to get rid of all of my fat phobic thoughts? Well, my wife was, if I didn't, then I was probably going to die. Now, that might sound like hyperbole, but it's true. It's true. There, there was so much going on in my life, right? So I experienced years of abuse, homelessness, being mistreated at jobs, and all sorts of other circumstances which I blamed incorrectly on my body size, and the fact that I lived and live in a fat body, and I was doing unsustainable things to try and make myself thin. And if I was thin, then I would be worthy, then I wouldn't be mistreated or abused, or, you know, have all of these shits situations happen because people would see my thin body and be like, Oh, wow, and I'd get the best boyfriend and the best job and suddenly become rich and all sorts of things, right. I mean, it was exhausting. It was exhausting. It was exhausting. Trying to become thin, and it not working.

Unknown Speaker 53:16

And my mind, in my mind it was become thin, and finally be happy. And you know, no longer be abused or mistreated or sad, etc. Or die. Like my route to happiness, the way that I saw it was to change my body. Which, you know, is totally, you know, unhelpful way of thinking. But the way that I saw it is that I had two routes, you know, this route of becoming thin and therefore happy and worthy, and lovable and dadada or die. And when I discovered like, couldn't become thin, I didn't want to accept eventually, I didn't want to accept the bleak alternative. Because I didn't want to die. But trying to become thin all the time was exhausting. It is so exhausting in so many different ways. And so sad when it doesn't happen and when you try so hard and your body fights against you. And so I didn't want to continue being exhausted or die. And so I decided I wanted to try to live and fight for my life, literally. And and that was my why. So I was so exhausted and so done with all of the bullshit that I hadn't experienced in my life up until that point that I was so motivated my Why was to live. And so if I was on that desert island and I had a pocket watch, the picture would be of a happy thriving Victoria, being alive, and not being so exhausted and fed up and have all of these negative things happening all the time, because she believed that there was something wrong with her body. So that was my kind of deep, deep getting down to the core of it is I wanted to live. And once I got out of that place of, I'm not sure if I can survive, this is really rock bottom for me, I really feel terrible. I really feel shit, once I got out of that. And was able to see, okay, you know, I think that I'm going to be able to get over this and I'm feeling good and feeling better. My next level of what I want my why was at that point was that I wanted my presence in the world to be a good one. I wanted my legacy to be something positive. I wanted to stop hurting others with my fat phobic body hating diet culture bullshit, that I believed and regarded regurgitated to others. I didn't want to die. And people just be like, Oh, well, you know, she tried to become thin all her life and was obsessed with her appearance and didn't really do much because she was scared about what other people thought of her. And she kind of made she gave me bad body image day, if I had kids, and she made me feel shit about myself, or whatever it is, I wanted my effect to be on the world of something positive and something good, you know. And so that was my kind of, like, next level of my wife. So it's kind of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So if you don't know what Maslow's hierarchy of needs is, it is the the things that a human being needs to survive. And so the bottom ones on the hierarchy of needs are things like water, food, shelter, stability, somewhere to live, you know, a job, love. And then you can move up into the other categories, which is self actualization. And so once I've got that kind of basic thing of, I'm alive, then my wife evolved into other people as well. And that's, that's pretty common, right? So knowing my y meant that when it felt impossible, I could keep going. When I made bullshit excuses, like, I don't have the time or I don't have the money. I don't think I can do it. I asked myself, do you want to live? Do you want to continue that life? Which was really fucking horrible? Well, then quit all of these bullshit reasons that you've given us a why you can't do the work because it was bullshit for me.

Unknown Speaker 58:14

You know, I didn't want to die because I hated myself so much. So it helped me overcome and it inspired me. So what is your why? Now is the first thing that could come into your head of why is it that you want to learn to love your body, you could say something like, all I want to feel confident wearing a piece of clothes like a crop top or something with no sleeves, or a swimsuit, or whatever it is. Or you could say I want my partner to have a confident and vibrant, vibrant person to be with and me to be happier around, you know, people, or you could say, I want to do things like I, I want to stop saying no to certain activities, because I'm worried about my body. So what is underneath that? What is underneath saying that you want to feel confident wearing a piece of clothing that clothes, what is underneath saying you want to see? You want your partner to see a confident, vibrant version of you of yourself, what is underneath when you say I want to be able to do things, what's really underneath that what is the real kind of deep dark where the bottom reason? And it could be that you want to belong? You want to feel loved and accepted? Is it that you want to start living your life and that you're wise the same as, as what mine was, is that if I don't do this, then I might die. Everyone's is different and no y is better or worse. But if you don't really have a y then this is probably not something that that that that it is important for you and that's fine, right? So, example if someone said to me, Victoria, why do you want to row across the English Channel? In a, in a boat? I don't want to roll across English channel on a boat. I don't not want to do it. But you know, someone came up to me right now is like, right, we've got the equipment, we've got everything ready to go, here's everything, you're just gonna do some rowing, it's gonna be fine, then I'd be like, Oh, okay, you know, I'll give it a go. Why not? But I don't have any deep desire to do it. And so

Unknown Speaker 1:00:41

my, my motivation, say if it started to become really hard, I probably like advocate, I've had enough of this, let's go get a cup of tea. Because my wife is not there. You know, why do I want to row across the English Channel? Well, they don't really I'm not that bothered. It might be fun, it might be an experience. But I'm not that bothered, I could take it or leave it. And so if when you're trying to think about your why of why you want to learn to love your fat body, and you're like, whatever, and it really is not a big deal, then that's a really great clue for you that this is not something that you necessarily need to pursue. But if when you start to think about it, and you're like, you know what, I really want to do this, and I know that this affects my life so deeply, then you have a y, and that y knowing what it is exactly, is really helpful to keep you motivated when things get hard. So for the people who do row across the English Channel, so for those who are not from the UK, you're rowing between the between England and France. And it's like a it's a long way. It's fun, no, probably takes a few days of rowing. I don't know, clearly, I've never done research on this. But it's hard, right? Is what I'm trying to say. And so the people who do it, they have a why they want to do it for some reason. I don't know what it would be. Because I think we know be fun, you know, be challenging. But I don't know why. Because I don't personally want to do that. Not that I wouldn't want to do it. But you know, you know what I'm saying? So understand what your why is because you know, when that person is roaming across English channel, you better believe that when they're hungry, and they're tired, and it's raining, and they've been rowing for hours, and they just want to go to sleep. And they think Fuck this, I never want to see water again. They're digging deep, and they're finding something in them. And it's coming from a place of this is why I want to do it. And this is why I want to succeed. So what is your why? That is my question for you today. And maybe you can write it down, put on a little post it put it somewhere. And so when you're feeling like maybe I'd know Oh, this is not that important, or, or making some bullshit excuses that you know, are bullshit. Or saying I don't want to, I don't want to do this thing, because it's too scary. Think about your why. And if your why is important, then it's going to be a really big motivation to you. And again, you might not have a why and then that means it's not important. And that's fine too. Because we all have different parts in life. But if you know that Hating Your Body and and feeling out of control around food is hurting your life, then there probably is going to be a big why. As to why you're doing why you want to do it. So yeah. All right. So thank you for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate it. Someone episode, considering I have a dodgy ish voice status is how it's hung out, isn't it? It's What's the word on? It's survived? Yeah, so a reminder, if you haven't already to get the fifth fatty body love roadmap is going to tell you how to get from meek and mild to courageous and confident all the steps to take to get to a place where you don't think you're a bag of shit. Because you're not a bag of shit. Yeah, so go get that go into the shownotes to get that. Go to the show notes as well. If they're not right in front of you on whatever app you're listening to, by going to face value.com forward slash podcast or for this specific episode. It's face value.com forward slash 052 Because it's episode 52 052. All right. Okay, good. You're gonna get we're gonna get good. Good. I'm feeling good. All right, well, stay phears Fatty. And I'll see you later crocodile. Okay, Baby

Unknown Speaker 1:05:07

thanks for listening to the episode and if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to fears fatti Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body, then go to foods fatty.com forward slash waitlist again that is fierce fatty.com forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first party Academy my signature program opens.