Episode 198 Transcript

You're listening to the Fierce Fatty podcast, episode 198 Fat in Healthcare: The ultimate harm. I'm your host, Vinny Welsby. My pronouns are they/them. Let's do it.

Hello. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. We've got a special podcast today because we have guests, two guests who are sharing their stories. And I'm just going to get right into it and invite you, introduce you to our first guest. Sarah, hello, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you.

Hi, thank you for having me. I'm really honored to be here and talking to you today.

Honored to have you. Seriously. Now listen, this is our second time recording because we recorded this podcast yesterday, but silly me didn't press the record button. But in my defense, I'm using a brand new software and it said it was recording, but apparently it wasn't. And to make the recording, you have to press create instead of recording. So anyone using StreamYard out there, be aware. to double check your recording. So, Sarah, you have just been an absolute incredible, patient, kind to not only share your story once, but now twice with me and with the audience.

So thank you, one gajillion percent. So let's do it. Tell us who you are.

Hi, my name is Sarah. My pronouns are she/her and I'm. Yeah, I'm a lesbian and I live in Manchester, which is a part of the United Kingdom or Britain, England. And Yeah, just navigating living life with an advanced ovarian cancer now, so which is what, you know, the reason why I'm here to talk about it.

Yeah, fantastic. And so I learned about you from your story in the in healthcare survey. What made you want to share your story in that survey?

I share my story a lot, but at the moment it tends to be within the oncology and cancer sorts of circles and community with charities and healthcare providers, students and at conferences. And I just, I don't want to hear this, you know, I don't want to hear this happening to somebody else again. You know, it's, I want people to learn from my story. I want to share and other people to reach out and say, yeah, that happened to me too. and feel okay with sharing our stories because I think a lot about being fat is being shamed and hiding away and, you know, again, the stigma and you just made to feel like you're not a human being. And that's kind of what I felt throughout my surgery, even before surgery and even before cancer with other things that I've had, you know, with treatments than less than. And even though I, you know, I'm fat and, you know, I'm not invisible, I almost become invisible because I'm because of my weight and things like that. so I don't have a voice. Although, you know, it's hard to miss me visibly. It's like, you know, I'm very, very seldom heard. So it's important that we are heard and our stories are shared.

Yeah, absolutely. Did you read the, did you check out the report? Did you see any of the other stories? A few of the other stories, yeah. Yeah, I've been shocked. Well, I say shocked, but it's shocking that it's happening. But, you know, it's a story that I hear a lot about, you know.

Different.

Different experiences with healthcare professionals and.

Yeah.

And they're like, yeah, exactly. I always say, I'm shocked. And then immediately say, I, I'm not shocked.

I'm not shocked because. Well, when you experience it every time you go, you know, I've had it from, from having a UTI and, you know, an undiagnosed chest infection that ended up in sepsis. But apparently, you know, I had a chest infection and more predisposed to get a chest infection because I'm fat, so. Oh, yeah, of course, you know. It's all of that sort of negative stuff, you know. My ex-wife, she had a sore thought and they sent her for an x-ray because she was so fat that she must have had a broken toe and not realized. So they sent her for an x-ray and it was like, it's that kind of, you know, we don't know our bodies, obviously, or we have no control over our bodies because we've let ourselves get this way. I can see, you know, I don't need to, I don't need them to say it to me. I can read it, you know. Yeah, it's just a feeling you get when you've experienced it a lot.

Yeah, absolutely. So tell us your story. What has got you to where you are today?

So I want to say probably two years before, but it was probably more than that because I was having sickness, which I put down to maybe being a type 2 diabetic and on metformin, I was struggling with nausea and things like that. But there's a few other things that we're adding up. I was having shortness of breath. I was struggling to eat, you know, more than a couple of mouthfuls of food. I was having issues with my bowels, going from frequency and diarrhea to being constipated. Just lots of issues going on. I had abnormal bleeding. I had a change in color to the blood that I was losing as well. So it's an abnormal color, too. So every time I'd get something different, I would go to see the GP, and each time I was just told that. you know, it was my body. It was because I was fat. You know, the issues with my periods were because I was fat. The shortness of breath was because I was unfit. The inability to eat more than a couple of mouthfuls of food was unbelievable. You know, the unexpected weight loss, which I then started to experience, was celebrated instead of investigated like it would have been in somebody else that was presenting. I had all of the symptoms of ovarian cancer and womb cancer. Yeah. that nobody was saying those words and nobody examined me, nobody sent me for a blood test. I wasn't referred anywhere. Each time I was sent away with either anti-sickness meds, you know, a reflux medication, a bit of pain relief, a told to lose weight and my symptoms would go away. So I think, you know, to the point of where you stop wanting to go because it's. It's. It hurts you psychologically every time you go to be told that the things you're telling you are almost, they're not believing and you sent away just disheartened because you're not being heard and you're still coming away no different. And so it just built up to the point where I didn't want to go anymore because I didn't, I couldn't face that shame and the, just the bias and the whole, you know, you just need to lose weight. And I'm like, I keep on coming back. And it wasn't just the same doctor because I've had that sort of said to me that I didn't fight hard enough to be heard. This wasn't the same doctor. This every doctor I saw, you know, every doctor I come across is very rare. I come across a doctor that doesn't judge me by my weight first. Very, very rare. So, yeah, I just got disheartened. So I kind of. Yeah, I stopped going for about. I think it was about four, four months. And then there was one night I got up to the toilet for about. 15 wheezes in one night. That morning, you know, the next day I sort of rang the GPs and I said, there's something going on. This isn't normal. You know, I was up and down all night. And and luckily that day I was happy. I happened to see a doctor that was in there covering for somebody and and she looked like me. She was fat and she was the first person that actually put her hands on me. And as soon as she palpated just underneath my breast, she could feel my tumor. So yeah, it was off to A&E for an emergency CT scan. Later that day I was told that they'd found a tumor, a mass in my abdomen that was measuring 19 by 20 by 20, filling my abdomen. It was crushing my colon so it was causing deformity. There was two other smaller tumors in there. a few other things that were going on. Basically the tumour was so big it was pushing up into my diaphragm so the reason why I had shortness of breath wasn't because I was unfit but because I had a reduced lung capacity because of the size of the tumour. So and you know that was again what was causing me to go for a wee every so many times in the evening because when I was sat upright my tumour would sit on my bladder and I wouldn't feel the urine, you know the urine collecting and then when I go to bed at night and I'd lie on my side the tumour would move to the side and then the your urine would flow through from my bladder into my bladder. And that's why I would get so many, you know, needing to go for a wee so often in the evening. So, yeah, I. Yeah, that night I was admitted to the hospital and there was, you know, some questions, a few mumblings. Nobody wanted to tell me what was going on. I sort of asked one doctor what she thought it was, and she got teary-eyed and sort of, I think she was only a young doctor, but she sort of went away and didn't answer my. question. And their next plan was to try and get me into have an MRI so they could see what, you know, basically if it was solid and what kind of tumor it was. So at that point, I was sent home with pain relief, and then my case was discussed at an MDT, and they decided at that point that I needed to be tested in the MRI machine. So an appointment was made for me to go and attend the hospital just to see if they could try, see if I fitted into the machine. So I'm fat already. And then I had this massive tumor as well. So I remember going and there's about five or six people in the room, and they all knew what I was there for. They knew I wasn't there to be scanned. They all knew that I was just to see if I could try and fit in the machine. And I got up on the bed, and it was painful. They actually physically tried to wedge me into the. To the MRI, you know, removing parts of it that could come off in order to make the opening bigger. And, yeah, it was just. I like a piece of meat, just like trying to be. It was painful because, you know, every time my tummy was pressed, it was sore. My tummy and my abdomen was solid because of the tumors in there. So, yeah, it was. It was humiliating. And especially when you don't fit, you're almost made to feel like, well, I don't deserve to be treated then. I don't deserve to be here if I don't fit in your machine. How am I going to. How are you going to find out what's happening to How do you know? What's the next step from this?

Yeah. So just rewinding a little bit, just so that we're clear, how long was it between you going with your symptoms first to eventually thank fuck meeting a fat doctor who was the only one who put their hands on you? How long was that? that period.

It was over two years. It was more than two years. Yeah.

Two years. And, and for people to say, oh, you weren't, you didn't advocate for yourself enough. I just think the tenacity you had to keep going back and advocating for yourself and saying, this isn't right, is just mind-blowing because, you know, as we saw in the, the survey and like you mentioned, you, for a four month period, you didn't go back the avoidance. that fat people experience, obviously, when you're just being told you're fat. So I'm so pleased that you had the capacity to keep going and a bit of luck was on your side to be able to meet that right doctor. And we were talking about this yesterday when you told the story. With the five people in the room just to watch to see if you could fit, they didn't get consent from you to say, is it okay that five people are watching? And a lot of fat people know that really incredibly vulnerable feeling of not fitting and it being mortifying and then to be it to be witnessed by that many people and to be literally forcing you in the machine. I said yesterday it's giving freak show like you're saying you're a piece of meat.

Yeah

Versus treating you as a human.

Yeah, so.

The machine didn't fit you versus you didn't fit the machine. The machine should fit humans and it didn't. So then if you were a smaller person, you would have been able to be scanned, they would be able to see what the issue was and you would theoretically start treatment, right? what happened?

They would know what they were looking at. But instead I was sent home for another six weeks in pain with all of the symptoms from before still not being able to eat more than a couple of mouthfuls of food. Losing my hair at that point because I was so advanced, I'd started to get bald patches. So I was fatigued as well. I had cancer-related fatigue as well. so, you know, I was getting worse as the time was going on and they were concerned about the tumor rupturing because it increased in pain more recently, which is why, you know, I was pushing a bit harder and after the four months of not wanting to go, it's kind of what pushed me to go even more because it was painful and I didn't feel like it was right to be painful. So I went home for another four weeks. Was it four to six weeks? Yeah. And then, yeah, I got a letter. letter through to say that because I couldn't be scanned and they didn't know what they were dealing with, I was off to the local oncology hospital. And that's when I had my first appointment with them. And there and then they listed me for surgery. And I proceeded, yeah, I proceeded my treatment with them, which was just as bad, you know, when I'm booking in, they had to measure, put a measurement, make it do a measurement, and they had to strap something around my waist and one wouldn't fit so they grumbled that they had to go and get another one and made a fuss of the fact that they had to fasten two together and how they'd not done that before. All in front of me, oh wow this is my first appointment at the oncology hospital. I was then sent for a CT scan at that hospital and I remember being called through from the waiting room to walk into the actual room where the scanner was. And the person walking in front of me said quite openly to the room in front of him and the waiting room behind him that they had a big one. You know, it wasn't, this is patient Sarah, you know, or patient number XYZ. It was, we've got a big one. And so again, it's that I just wanted the ground to open up and swallow me, you know, it was. and this is my first experience with these people. And, you know, this is kind of why I speak to oncologists primarily, is because, you know, I'm supposed to trust this, these people in this hospital for however long I've got left now. And, and I just, I, I feel like I can't trust them and I can't truly take on board what they say to me because I feel like, is it, you know, is just sort of the same thing you'd be saying to somebody who was, you know, in a smaller body than me. And you know how much of it is the fat bias and the stigma. So it just makes it harder. It makes having cancer and living with cancer, it gives it that another level of like, you know, being hard. It's hard already, but to have to second guess as to whether the care that you're being offered is right.

So you were denied care, you were misdiagnosed as fat, your prescription was lose weight and sometimes they'd give you antinausea or do you say pain meds? And so then you were finally someone, a doctor said, this isn't right and you say you go to get a scan. and you go to the A&E for people in the US, that's ER, and you still don't get answers. The machine doesn't fit. Then you finally get to go to oncology and then they dehumanize you by referring to you as the big one. It just goes on and on of the horror that you've had to go through. So then it doesn't stop there. Then you're getting ready for your operation. Yeah, I was told that, you know, I would need to have an echocardiogram because of my weight and that I would have to have some sort of exercise tolerance test to measure like my oxygen output and things like that to basically see if I would survive an operation that if I didn't have I wouldn't have survived anyway. So, yeah, I was. I think the Echo cardiogram foot came first and I went off and had that done and everything came back fine.

They queried as to why I'd been sent for one, but, you know, I'd been. I'd been sent for one. And then I proceeded to arrive for the. The exercise tolerance test. And I was sat on a bike, which wasn't made for me. The seat was super small, the distance between. The seat and me trying to get my knees and my legs up with the handles. It wasn't, you know, it couldn't be changed. It couldn't be modified to fit for me to be able to fit on. I was then a mask was put, a full face mask was put over my face and a tube coming off it so they could measure, you know, my output while I was made to exercise for 30 minutes on a machine. Bearing in mind that even sitting was painful with this tumor. you know, even sitting was painful. And they were asking me to exercise for 30 minutes. So of course I failed it, you know, I was in a room. It was in December. So the heating was on. I was boiling. I felt like I was actually starting to have a bit of a panic attack because of the mask over my face.

So, And you've got the tumor pushing into your, into your diaphragm.

Yeah. Yeah. So.

And fatigue, you know, cancer fatigue, too.

So, yeah, I went from the room and I was sitting. a small room with my mum. And because at that point she was, she was out there with me, supporting me. And the anesthetist said that based on the calculation and my performance on the bike that, you know, there's an increased risk of 90% of me dying on the operating, in the operating theater. So, you know, hearing things like that, my mom got upset. It was, it was very emotive. You know, we were there still not be anyone being formally told that it was cancer, but we were in a cancer hospital having all these tests. You know, I had a raised CA 125, but people can have a raised CA 125 and it not be ovarian cancer because there's no official screening for it. And because I couldn't have an MRI, they couldn't actually say what it was. So still very much in the dark, but thinking it's got to be cancer, otherwise why am I here? so, yeah, so he went on to say that basically my surgery would have to be, you know, fitted in around intensive care spaces, intensive bed, you know, spaces in intensive care, because he, he predicted that I would need two weeks in intensive care after surgery, that I would, you know, I'd struggle to come round after being sedated and things like that. So it would need to be special to intensive care and then have a long period of time in the hospital. So all the preparation made and yeah, I was sent to come back, I think it was about five days later, to to be admitted for my surgery.

Having been told. Just quick question, did that you having to do that test, did that delay your surgery yet again?

Did it delay, I don't think it did. No, they were able to accommodate me in especially in intensive care, but no, it didn't. I did have to go in a couple of days previous to it just because of the diabetes. I'm type 2 diabetic. So they wanted to put me on a, like a drip sort of thing that would regulate my blood sugars while I wasn't able to myself and during surgery. And then, yeah, I was kind of. That was it. I arrived on the morning petrified that I was going to die. Absolutely petrified that I was going to die. I'd just a week before I'd had like an early Christmas dinner with my family because my surgery is on the 19th of December. And with what they'd said, it looked like I was going to be in hospital over Christmas and well into the new year. So I celebrated Christmas early. I'd had a Christmas, you know, I'd cooked for people. Not that I could eat to myself, but I'd cooked and, and, you know, had a bit of a celebration because it, we were all dreading what was going to happen. So not only was I affected in that way, but it affected my family too, that this, you know, this doom, you know, this doom was looming. So I went in and half an hour before my surgery, they approached somebody approached me and asked me if I would design a release form so that they could video it because they'd not had one so big before, which, you know, at the time I was thinking it was, you know, they were talking about my tumor and things like that. But, you know, there was this part of me that wondered whether it was down to me as well. because of, you know, the things that have been said before. So I did agree to it because, you know, I believe that we can, I want people to learn. So it was a teaching hospital, so we agreed for it to be videoed. And, yeah, I went down to surgery.

So then using that phrase, we've not seen one so big before. I mean, hello being, and then calling back to being referred to as the big one and then asking you 30 minutes before. when you're already petrified thinking I could die, can we record? It just feels like really disrespectful, like even if they did it the day before, so giving you some time to consider what that could be like for you. But and then, you know, we want to help, right? And we're able to help with learning because it's really important. But you didn't really have enough time to consider what that would be like for you.

Yeah, Yeah.

So you're going into surgery and so they're ready in intensive care because apparently you're, you know, because you, because of your body size, you were, this is, are you gonna make it through the surgery? Or did you make it through the surgery? What happened?

Yeah, I made it through surgery and I came out the other side. I think that's one of the first things I said. I was almost alive because I was so scared that I was going to die. And I was, yeah, after eight and a half hours of surgery, removing over five organs and, you know, leaving me with a scarf from my boobs to my pubes, it's, I was back on a ward, on a regular ward. And, yeah, it wasn't, I wasn't feeling great and I was sedated and things, but I wasn't in intensive care. I was back on, yeah, a regular ward. and yeah, so everything that I'd been forewarned about and petrified of just didn't happen. And so, yeah, I just realized that it's, again, it's that extra load that we have to carry that other people wouldn't have had. There's other people out there that didn't have that when they had their surgeries. People's experiences are so different to mine of cancer. and their treatment. So, yeah, just.

Yeah.

It makes me think about, you know, them saying you've got a 19% chance of increased chance of dying. Because they are less skilled, because they don't know how to operate on people with bigger bodies as well as they do with people with smaller bodies. And so positioning it as as your body is the problem that makes an increase versus our lack of skill is what makes the increase. And I'm thinking, like, would you, would, was it helpful for you knowing that there was a 19, theoretically, 19 increase in, in chance of you not making it through? Would you, yes, shaking that? No, no, you'd much prefer to have not known.

My mom didn't need to hear that. I didn't need to hear that. I was already petrified by being so feeling like I was in the dark and, and, you know, feeling devastated that I, you know, it taken so long to get to that point of actually being there and somebody listening to you, I suppose. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it's something I didn't need. I really didn't need that. I appreciate that they have to tell people, but. I didn't need to hear that.

Yeah.

And I certainly didn't need to be warned about intensive care and things like that because it was just assumptions and, you know, it never happened. So tell me about it afterwards, if that's the case.

Yeah.

So then how long were you in the hospital before you went home?

Five days.

So you got home for Christmas?

Yeah.

Wee hee!

I got home for Christmas.

You probably felt like shit though, didn't you?

I did feel like shit. And my Christmas morning was with a district nurse, a community nurse coming around to check my stitches. and things like that. And he got his head bit enough because I was teary and upset because, you know, I'd had a full hysterectomy. They'd removed my appendix, my womb, my tumor, two smaller tumors, my one remaining over the ovary that I had, two-thirds of my vagina, my omentum. I'd had a bowel resection. I'd had a liver, something to do with my liver as well. So it had a lot of work done. It wasn't just a hysterectomy. I had a lot of surgery and within 12 hours of having your ovaries removed, you then start surgical menopause. So by the time this community nurse came round, I was, you know, worried because at that point, even though they'd said that they'd found tumours and what they believed was a cancer in my womb as well as the ovarian cancer, they still, because it hadn't been come back from the labs, they were still reluctant to label it and stage it and things like that. So still a bit in the dark as to what was going on. going through surgical menopause with everything, all of this that's happened. And, you know, I started to get upset, and his first response to me was, do you need some antidepressants? And that was kind of like the last thing I needed to hear. And so I was like, no, I beep, don't need beeping antidepressants, and I just sort of let him have it, you. not physically, but verbally, not aggressively either, but enough to say, you know, just think, you know, this person here has got X, Y and Z going on and antidepressants isn't the answer for, you know, for any of that. So, yeah, it was coming out of surgery was, it was okay. And then coming home and dealing with it and living with life, dealing with recovering from hysterectomy and things wasn't easy. I think it was two weeks afterwards I was then sent for so that they could tell me what they'd found and the staging. I went with my mum with that. It was at that point that they'd said that they'd found advanced ovarian cancer, that I was too advanced to cure and that I should see four years after, you know, my mom sort of, he asked if I wanted my prognosis and I was like, not really, no. And my mom was like, yeah. And he said, you know, you should see four years. They found a womb cancer in there. So that was what was causing the abnormal bleeding and the pain after sex and things like that.

And, Yeah, I was told that. they thought they'd picked up everything in surgery, but I would still need to have six rounds of chemotherapy. And, you know, so that was sort of, I had to wait, I think it was about six weeks after surgery before I could start chemotherapy, just so that your body was kind of getting back to some sort of normality. And it was at that appointment where he said, you know, what chemotherapy drugs I'd be having, and that, you know, I'd go on the Monday to have my bloods taken, to to check that I was healthy, that I didn't have any infections. And at that point, because I'm type 2 diabetic, that my blood sugars would be checked. And he was very insistent. And he was like, you know, if your blood sugars aren't right by the third, if, you know, if the bloods aren't right and including your blood sugars, we won't give you treatment on that Thursday. And this was like every three weeks for, for the next six rounds. So I was I think it was around, I think it was cycle number three. I had a reaction to the chemotherapy drugs where I had a bit of like, my heart was racing, I felt poorly and faint and things like that. So at that point they stopped the chemo at that time. I was sent home and then called back for my next time and I was having a conversation with the nurse who administered my chemo. And every time you go they sort of ask you how you've been, if you've had any new symptoms and things like that. And it was at that at that point, I was like, well, I've had some blurred vision. When I go to the toilet for a wee, it's dark, it's frothy. I'm a bit. I'm a bit thirsty. And at that point, I wasn't really eating very much because I was still feeling sick on lots of medications because of the chemotherapy. Food didn't taste like food anymore. It was very. I had to eat something that was, like, really strong, you know, in order, in order for me to be able to taste it. So a lot of it was like drinking orange juice and just fresh juices in order to give some energy and just a bit of something to taste. So she literally, she was like, well, I don't think frothy urines, like, a normal symptom or side effects of chemotherapy. And I don't, I'm not sure the blurred vision is either. So she had me, you know, she wanted to test my urine. So she tested it. And at that point, they realized that I had a blood sugar of 55, because what they'd not been doing was ticking the box on the blood form in order for me to have my bloods, my blood sugar tested. So I'd gone three rounds being infused over the space of eight hours with a chemotherapy drug that was suspended in, in, say, in, in a shuck and, I think it was a glucose solution, being given steroids as well during that time, high doses of steroids. And so by around three, my blood sugars were through the roof.

So your blood sugar was 55. And what is a normal blood sugar for those who, who I don't know.

That's normally blue 10, but yeah.

Below 10, yeah.

So yeah, so I was hospitalized at that point and you know I spoke to the diabetic nurse, she came along and spoke to me and she was horrified that they'd let it happen basically and she filed a critical incident at the hospital because she just said, you know, they're doing it, you know, she was worried about it happening to other people too. It was wrong that they were not taking my diabetes into consideration. And especially after I'd said, look, they'd threatened me with not giving me chemo if my blood sugars weren't right. And there they were not even testing them. So it was, yeah, that was hard because I then had to spend a couple of days in hospital. and be shown how to use insulin. So I'm now insulin dependent diabetic.

So could that have, could that you, you, your them not testing your blood sugars and your reaction, that could have been deadly, right?

Yeah.

And so then you're in hospital yet again because of healthcare providers mistakes.

Yeah.

And what happened to you in hospital?

I was in hospital and while I was in hospital, I contracted COVID because just as I'd started, like, I think it's my second round of chemotherapy, we all went into lockdown. So I'd come home to isolate and be on my own away from my family, having my shopping delivered at the end of a corridor, not being able to see my family or get a hug from them, protecting myself because I was. I knew I was vulnerable for having chemotherapy. The government shielding me by sending me food and making sure that I stayed at home. And then when I did go to the hospital, I contracted COVID. So I came home and I think the next day I got a phone call to say that you've tested positive for COVID before you left the hospital. So they managed me at home with that and rang me every day to make sure I was okay and still breathing, I suppose.

But yeah, I can't imagine being in lockdown was hard for people. Being in lockdown while going through chemo, while then having to go into hospital.

And then.

Getting COVID and then isolating from your family and like, and then, and then, and then, like the list goes on. That must have had an impact on all of this together. It must have a huge impact on your mental health.

Right?

It did. It had a massive impact on it. You know, I ended up with the crisis call, you know, the crisis team telephone number for the weekends. I was already struggling with my mental health. You know, when I first just first went to the hospital, I disclosed to them that I struggled with my mental health from when I was a teenager, from something that happened to me when I was younger. When I was 14, I was diagnosed with PTSD and spent some in a teenage psychiatric unit. So I'd fully disclosed to them that, you know, I'd had issues with my mental health before and they'd sent me off to see a complementary therapist and she had sort of said, you know, she made me do an assessment where I had to tick how I felt with certain statements and she said, oh, you score quite highly with this, you know, we would suggest that you speak to the psych oncology team. So I scored quite highly on the first and it was suggested that I would struggle with my mental health while going through treatment and, you know, my diagnosis and things. But nothing more came of that. I wasn't referred to mental health services. I wasn't told that there was a specific psych oncology, you know, you place I could go to to see the nurses and the doctors there. And it wasn't until all of these things I'd started to get to the point where I she needed help. I had to reach a crisis before I had any sort of intervention, even though they were fully aware that I would potentially struggle with my mental health and that I'd had previous issues with my mental health that wasn't taken into consideration. I just literally had to get to the point of not wanting to be here anymore. It got to that point, which is hard when everyone's trying to fight for you to give you longer and you feel like you don't want to be here anymore. so I had a lot, I had all of that going on as well. So yeah, everything was a mess and I feel like some of that could have been prevented, some of my mental health harm could have been prevented. I ended up seeing the psych oncology nurse for I think it was about a year and a half and I'd see her, I think it was two times a month. So every fortnight I'd go and see her and I'd speak to her and I just felt like nothing was improving. I just felt despair.

There.

I'd wake up and wonder if that was the day I was gonna die.

And.

And I couldn't get out that out of my head, you know, that. That hopelessness. So after a year and a half, I was like, this isn't working. You know, I'm still feeling so desperate. And at that point, she suggested that I spoke to their psychiatrist. And within 10 minutes of being in a room with him and him taking down my history and things like that, he diagnosed me with complex PTSD and offered me a. a course of EMDR and I've not booked that since, you know?

And that that CPTSD was from the medical care.

He believes it was triggered again because the PTSD from when I was younger, he believes like the diagnosis, the treatments, some of the examinations that I needed to have, he believed that triggered the complex PTSD. yeah.

And so listeners of the show may remember that I've done EMDR for CPTSD and I fucking loved it. How was it for you?

Amazing. Like I say, I've not looked back since. I don't feel despair anymore. I get to the point now where I can talk about hard things. I can be vulnerable, but I feel strong inside because of it, because I'm not gonna come away from this and be in my feelings. I've dealt with that trauma and It was a weird concept because I'd studied psychology when I was younger. And I remember them talking about something similar to this and it was pre-pooed years ago. And for it now to be actually used and working for me. Because when he first suggested it, it was like, and then somebody said, go for it. And I was like, okay, yeah, I'll go for it. And yeah, it was fab. And I can't explain how it worked, but it just worked. It was hard. There was times it'd come out and I'd felt like I'd gone, 10 rounds in a boxing match because I was so tense from the trauma and things. But, you know, yeah, I, I encourage everybody to go for it. I encourage everybody to seek psycho, psycho-oncology if they're having, you know, the cancer treatment and care, because I don't think you can have that sort of those, hear those sorts of things about you without having some sort of, you know, psychological input. So I encourage everybody to seek out the, the psych Services. They're there. You just have to look for them. They're not in person.

Yeah.

You know, the way that I.

Have.

Explained EMDR in my brain, the way it feels to me, is that with. With trauma, it's like you're currently experiencing it, even though you might not be. And so your brain has categorized it as a current threat, which is helpful for some things, which may be a current threat, but are not helpful for other things. that are in the past. And so our brains have said, we need to still keep focusing on it. And so it's categorized in one side of the brain. The other side of the brain is like a library of past things that have happened to us, and we remember them. We might recall them from time to time. And so that memory, that experience, is in the wrong side of the brain. So EMDR helps you put it into the library section versus the checked out book section of current things happening. That's the way that it feels like in my brain. Does that sound... That's how it felt.

It kind of felt like an acceptance, you know, that it had been put away and now I could sort of move on and yeah, it was... It changed me completely.

Yeah.

I thoroughly encourage it.

Yeah. Yeah.

So glad that you got that. So then what happens next?

So, yeah, after that, I basically get on with the rest of my chemo. You know, I kind of discover that things aren't what they used to be in terms of sexual function with my body and things like that and just things that, you know, conversations that weren't had during treatment and things like that about what what would happen to my body after surgery, losing your cervix and, you know, losing my hormones and not being able to have HRT because I have a womb cancer diagnosis. That means I can't have HRT. So, yeah, just basically trying to get on with life and live life with Advanced ovarian cancer. Now, I go for checkups every three I go for a blood test and they checked my tumor markers. So again, checking the CA125 level. But yeah, unfortunately, last year I went for one of my checkups and they'd take my blood and I'd got around to see the doctor and by the time I got in to see her, and this was the surgeon that had operated on me, that spent eight hours removing my tumor and the cancer and the person that I'd spoke to at the beginning about why I was studying in front of her. So I went into her and I'd started, she asked me how I was and I started to explain to her, you know, I'd had a few bowel blockages and still got pain, I've still got nausea. And I couldn't even finish the, you know, I think I was in the middle of saying nausea when she, without even having the blood results in front of her suggested that she asked me if I wanted to be referred to the local bariatrics clinic.

So, I was just kind of, I was kind of lost at that point. I was there telling her things that I've been told I should be careful of and watching out for and reporting because it's a sign of my cancer reoccurring. And because I'm so advanced, you know, I have a 72% chance of not surviving 10 years or more because of how I've advanced. I am. And, you know, it's, there's a high chance of it reoccurring. So I'm supposed to look out for all of the things I was saying to her. And without that test in front of her, saying to you, saying to her that, no, it's not that because the tumor markers are low, she was offering me, you know, a bariatric referral. So I kind of lost it. You know, I did say to her, you know, how dare you after everything? But nevertheless, she apologized, but it doesn't make any odds. And I understand that she doesn't look at me and she knows, oh, that's Sarah, this is what she had and this, that and the other. And maybe not even looked through my notes before she saw me. But to come out with that while I'm talking to her and without even having the blood results in front of her, the evidence that my cancer isn't great, growing. She offered me, you know, bariatric, a bariatric referral. So I just. I came home and I think I didn't speak to anybody for a week. I sobbed just because I was. I was scared again. I was scared that, you know, the. The things I've been told to listen out, watch out for, weren't being heard again. So what's going to happen next time? You know, my type of ovarian cancer is a rare type, which means there are only eight forms of treatment. I've had two. so and you know it doesn't respond my my type of ovarian cancer doesn't respond to chemotherapy much past the first initial round that I've had. So my options are limited. So it's about catching it, which is what I was told in the very beginning, it's about surveillance, you know, keeping you comfortable, which they've never done. You know, it is about palliative care, you know, keeping you comfortable and surveillance because you're incurring curable. They can't cure it because I was so advanced. It had gone beyond the tumor. I'd got two smaller tumors. There was only a millimeter from advancing to another organ and being stage four. So, you know, it was all of those that I went home with absolutely petrified that I was going to. To die again. You know.

It'S. It's absolutely. in infuriating that they have someone in front of them who they've already caused untold harm to. And we're not sure you've not got your blood test back. You think that, you know, is this it? And they're like, have you considered weight loss surgery? Like, what the fuck is what the fuck?

It was just back to that again. And this is a gynecologist stood in front of me, the same woman that had stood for eight and a half hours to operate me, you know?

I mean, what a great way, like, who knows? Who knows, you know, how long you've got left? What a great way to spend all these precious moments by. By losing weight, by going through surgery, by taking another organ from you and dismembering it for what?

I'm struggling with food anyway. It's, again, that not believing me. I am struggling with food. I have been in hospital recently with bowel blockages, you know, whether that's adhesions. whether that's the bowel section, you know, who knows what's going on, but, you know, my eating has never been the same for me. I get pain after I eat, you know?

Yeah. I'm glad you told her where to go.

I came home and I actually looked her up online and I found out that in 2001 that she'd done a study on operating on obese patients. so I'm guessing that my video was part of that. So I actually asked the hospital if I could withdraw consent from my video being used.

Because she's probably, she's not respectful.

No.

Wow.

No.

Wow. You know, if she hadn't have done that, I wouldn't have minded that she'd used it as a part of a teaching tool to do a study on it, you know, a published study on it. But you can bet your bottom dollar that my images and my surgery was part of that study.

And again, like given that freak show thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you're a specimen.

This is what I can operate on. I'm a specialist in robotic surgery. I kind of get that vibe from her. It's like, yeah, so no, you can leave me out of it. I've seen she wouldn't even accept, like, when I said to her, I'm still having these things, she wouldn't accept that those are things that people struggle with, with ovarian cancer. yet it's a well-known thing that people that live with advanced ovarian cancer have issues with the bowels if they've not got a stoma, have issues with food, have bloating still, have issues with intimacy and pleasure. Yet she'd like kind of made out that she'd not done me any harm, that it wasn't her, that she'd done, it was unheard of. And I'm like, I could reel off five people, close friends of mine, that have got ovarian cancer, and all of them have those symptoms. It's documented that they're symptoms of living with advanced ovarian cancer. And yet she was there saying, oh, that's not me. You know, I've not done anything wrong. Almost, almost as if I was blaming her. And I'm not, I'm just saying this is what I have, regardless of what's caused it. I've still got these symptoms.

Just, just so angry for, you know, just, oh, again, I'm gonna say unbelievable, but totally believable. Do you have, do you have any health patient advocate type people that can bring with you. So that next time when she's like, have you ever heard of diets or whatever that person could be like, but.

You, fortunately, I've not seen her since because I have two teams. I have, like, a gyny team and a medical team, so they take interns to see me. So fortunately, I've not come across her again, but, yeah, I I don't think I can stand for it anymore myself, never mind taking somebody else in with me. I think what I would like to do is perhaps record it. I don't know if that's allowed just because I need to have it on tape because I feel like they gaslight me and say, oh no, I didn't say that. And you know, they did say that. And then I kind of need to know where I stand from a legal point as to whether it can be recorded or not for future. You know, there's a lot of things have said to me that I've found out, you know, times I've gone back later that haven't been true. And so, yeah, I kind of, I need to have it on record, I think. Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm sure Asha Fat Doctor, he can, he can let you know if you're able to, to do that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Just a Sarah is part of the Fat Doctor on Instagram. Asha Lami, the Waiting Room. Is it a membership or, or a course?

Yeah, it's a community. It's a, it's a membership.

Yeah.

So an online community of yeah, and that people.

Azure is great. So I'm so glad you've got that community.

Yeah.

So, so, so, so, so, so. So we're up to today.

What would it be like to experience size-inclusive care?

I think we spoke about this yesterday. and I think we mentioned, you know, it is literally the bare minimum. It's like treating me with respect, you know, using my name, not talking about my weight, you know, that not being the first reason for why I'm in front of you. You know, I've had it a few times with the psychiatrist. I felt really seen by him. And obviously he kind of.

He was the actual. The only one that appreciated what I'd. in terms of the weight bias, the anti-fat bias and the weight stigma. A lot of people, a lot of doctors won't admit it actually happens. A lot of them are blinkered to it. They think that a doctor can't cause medical trauma and I've had a lot of that from people. So just being seen, hearing me, it not being about my weight. Again, from a physical side, I'm under a pain clinic. The consultant there, he's amazing too. He's like, he doesn't talk about my weight. He doesn't say that any of my pain is down to my weight. He said it's down to my surgery. And he's like, you know, they actually don't know what they're cutting away. He said they're cutting away so much inside you that they don't know properly that what nerves are cutting through. And, and so, you know, because I can press my tummy and I can get back pain. So it's all, it's all like connected in a weird way, but he helps me in every couple of months ago, and I'm that comfortable with him that I can lie face down in a room full of people and because I have to be x-rayed before they can inject me into the spaces into my spine. So, you know, I can be in a room full of people with a pair of cycling shorts that are just below, you know, my bum, showing the top half of my bum and feel comfortable and be laughing and joking and not feel like I'm a freak or that I don't deserve that, you know, people are uncomfortable around me or because I get that too, where people don't know what to say or how to treat me or even how to maneuver me. You know, I get that a lot. And especially when you're in hospital, when the staff are there and they're supposed to be the ones that help to maneuver you, you kind of, I find being in my body that I try and do that a lot sooner than somebody that's not in a regular sized body because you feel like a burden on the people that are having to lift you and move you. so you try and take on and do a lot more of yourself, perhaps more than you should be doing. But for me, that's kind of my sort of, it helps me feel better.

And that's the, the, what that pain doctor is doing is one, not mentioning your weight and two, not blaming your weight on pain. So it's very bare minimum. And the outcome is all of those wonderful things that you said, being comfortable, being in a relationship, being able to laugh and making that care experience, which could be really awful into something that's not so terrible.

Just something that could be really uncomfortable being in that room. You know, it's traumatizing before other examinations have caused me trauma. But just being in that room and being semi-naked and, you know, in a space that causes me trauma and anxiety, he doesn't make me feel like that. You know, I've he said, he's given me examples of procedures that I can have. And my thing has always come back to him and said, I bet I can't have that because I'm fat. Because that's what I'm so used to. There's this, but because of your weight, you can't have it. You know, that's what I've grown up hearing. So that's my first thing to him, is I can't have that because I'm fat. And he's like, no, you can totally have for it. It doesn't matter on, you know, it's not waiting. It doesn't matter on your weight or anything like that. It's about.

Yeah. yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, it is, it is the minimum, but it does, you know, it.

Can be trans transformational. It really can.

Yeah.

I don't think we mentioned before, how, how old are you now?

I'm 48 this year, so i'm 47 now. 48.

And then.

So you were given that four year.

I was 42.

42 when you got the four year prognosis. So you've survived the four years. You're into your fifth. fifth year now.

Yeah, it'll be five years in December.

Fantastic. And so what message would you like to share with healthcare providers?

Just treat me as a human being. See me for who I am. I'm an individual. Again, it's, you know, it should be patient focused care. Not. You're not all the same. We experience things in different ways. We all come to those people with different experiences as well. You know, mine being Drama, weight bias, you know, things like that. I think you've got to, you know, treat me with respect and not. And look beyond my weights and it not be the first easy option or excuse for what's going on with me. Listen to me, see me. You know, I've said before, I'm not small, but I'm easily made to feel invisible, you know, where you don't listen. to me, you know, I'm kind of, yeah, just, I'm a human being. I'm a human being and I've got feelings and yeah, just treat me as a human being, really. I think that's, that's all I ever ask for is, yeah, just pretty basic, right? Yeah.

Is like, people aren't asking for the world. It's like, you know, we're not saying, oh, yeah, have a, you know, blue M&Ms for us and give us a cigar and rub our feet. We're like, no, just don't treat me like an animal.

Yeah, listen to me, you know, don't tell me that everything is about my weight when it's not, you know, show me some evidence if it is, you know, and like I've said to you before, if it's, if being fat does give you an increased chance of getting cancer, why is it not the first thing that's being tested for when we go to the doctors and things like that? You know, if we are more predisposed to getting cancers, then why are we not not being tested for it. And why are we not being listened to when we present with very obvious signs of not just one cancer, but two cancers. You know, I was diagnosed with ovarian and advanced ovarian cancer and, you know, ovarian womb cancer in synchronous. So that's two primary cancers not related at the same time. So, you know, it has symptoms for both separate cancers, you know, the bleeding and the discoloration to the blood and then the, the bloating and the changes. of our habits was the ovarian cancer. So yeah. Wow, wow, wow, wow.

Is there anything else that you want to share?

I don't know.

Lots of things, I suppose. Just like, you know, I don't want to say... I don't know. It's hard. There's a lot.

You've already shared a shit ton. So.

But I just continue to share and I think you know the more people that one hear about ovarian cancer you know because I'm tired of it being classed as an old woman's disease everyone can get it if you've ever had ovaries or ovarian tissue I only had one and I still got it yeah I had an ovary removed when I was eight years old because I was born with a congenital dermoid tumour on my right ovary. By the time that was discovered at the age of eight it was the size of a fruit. 35 years later, I had a four kilogram ovarian tumor. So it happens.

Yeah.

I had my right ovary removed at the age of eight. I had only one ovary left, and I still got ovarian cancer. So, you know, it's. It was about getting that out there. The symptoms. How a lot of us aren't heard. So many people with ovaries aren't heard about, you know, aren't listened to. We're fobbed off, we're gaslit, you know, we're told it's our hormones, we're told it's normal. for us, you know, and none of it is normal. If it's abnormal for you and it's lasting more than two weeks, it needs to be checked out and it should be cancer first, not second or last. You know, we have this thing of feeling like we're a hypochondriac. If we go in and say, could it be cancer? But we actually should be saying, could it be cancer now? You know, it's affecting so many of us, from athletes to, you know, royalty to just anyone. It doesn't matter, you know? so, yeah, so sharing, basically, in every space possible. I recently, my picture and my story won the portrait of Britain. And so I was, you know, upon billboards, six foot hang outside the WaterloO station and things like that in London. And I think I should have managed to see one up in. Oh, there's one up in Edinburgh. bypass there and I managed to see one in real life at Manchester Piccadilly station. So it was nice. I took my mum as well and she was able to see it so she was super proud too. So we were featured in the book which included my story, included my story of being, you know, unapologetically queer and fat and, you know, a little of what happened to me. Not as much detail as today but, you know, some of the things that I went through to be heard.

Yeah.

Just in and it felt like an honor. There was other fat people in the book too, so that felt good too, that we were being represented. And just coming out from the shadows, it feels like we live with stigma and shame, and I don't think we should. We've got to embrace the life we have because we never know what's around the corner. So for me, it's about finding joy each day, and however I find that, I have to find it in different ways now since surgery. but it's still there.

Yeah.

So, yeah, fantastic.

Just continue plodding along and seeing how I go so far, so good. So, yeah.

Fantastic. Thank you, thank you, thank you a.

Million.

For sharing your story.

Thank you for sharing my story. Thank you, because I think everybody everywhere needs to hear it and just we need to learn from it. Like I said before, I don't want to hear this happening again. for anybody.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I'll share the, your portrait, your national portrait.

Thank you.

We'Ll put, if people want to follow you on social media, do you, do you want to, do you post things on social media?

I do, just not all the time. I'm not like a cancer blogger and things like that, but I do put times out when I'm sharing, like in June, I'm sharing my story with, at the UK IO, which is the UK and International Oncology and Imaging conference. So I'm going to go on stage and share my story and particularly about the mental health, about it coexisting with a cancer diagnosis. So I put a few bits of a few bits and bobs on there and some of the work that I've done with charities, I've talked a lot about sex and pleasure and because again in cancer it's just not talked about, we should just be grateful for surviving, let alone wanting to feel pleasure again. So and you know particularly from gynae cancer as well, 'cause there's a lot of stigma and shame associated with gynaecancer. And particularly with weight as well, you know, a lot of people say, oh, well, you can stop yourself from getting a gynaecancer if you lose weight or if you're not fat. And so I'm pushing against those sorts of narratives all the time online. It was World Ovarian Cancer Day yesterday and everywhere it ended, it was like, just go to your doctor or lose weight. And it's like, no, no, don't just go to your doctor and lose weight. so we're still not addressing it in the Charities that should be addressing it aren't addressing it, no matter how hard I try. So with Asha and other people, I'm trying to get my story out there. So we are accepting that doctors don't know everything. They make mistakes, they don't listen to us. And for some of us that are marginalized, that's even worse and even more deadly.

So. Yeah.

Okay, well, thank you so much, Sarah, for sharing her really important story. We're moving now into our second guest for today's show. I'm really excited to have them. Another Brit. I mean, come on, I'm just. I'm just getting all the Brits here today. Tam, welcome to the first party podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you for so much for being here. Tell us who you are. What's your name? Where you're from? What's your age? Any identities?

Tell us. My name is Tam. I'm currently in Boston in Great Anastasia pronouns are she/her and I'm 42.

Amazing. I was like, I know we're the same. We're the same. I'm 40. We're the same age. I could just tell. We're from the same generation.

Yeah, very much so, I think.

Yes, yes, yes, yeah. So what made you want to share your story in my survey?

I. I just felt it was really important.

The People were. I spent years on the internet trying to convince people to educate themselves. And I always had that assumption of, like, you know, when you go to a doctor, the people you trust, blah, blah, blah, and all the rest of it. And I just felt so let down by our doctor. And my husband was let down. I just thought it's sharing my story. story. It helps either a doctor open their eyes or be a bit more open-minded about it all, or help someone else have the confidence to speak up for themselves. And surely that's gotta count for something. I can't. I can't bring James back, but if I can help other people have that not happen to them, then, you know, that's the win, really.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And that's what we really hope with the whole healthcare report, but then also you sharing this story. Thank you so much for doing that. I really appreciate you sharing your pain for others to witness. It's difficult, right? So I really appreciate that. So tell us, what is your story?

So Jane's, my husband's, he started having symptoms of shortness of breath. He is asthmatic. So initially he was like, you know, is this sort of related? But, I mean, he's had asthma all his life. Ever since he was really, really young, he spent a lot of time in and out of hospital when he was a child. So he was very aware of what was an asthma attack, what was a chest infection, what was that very aware and he was like just it doesn't feel like that. It feels like it's something he kept saying it felt like something new like you hadn't felt before. And then after a week we went to a doctor and because he was autistic he'd asked me to go to his appointments with him because he got very that sort of atmosphere just really really triggered him and as soon as we saw. Brilliant, lovely. It was her first day working at that clinic. She was really friendly, really chatty, listened to everything we were both saying. She was like, you know, it could be an infection, it could be, it could be a number of things. She gave him antibiotics and said, if it's not any better or it's gotten worse or anything like that, come back to us in a week, which is exactly what we did.

James's symptoms then was. Was just the. The shortness of breath.

Yeah, it was just the shortness of breath.

And He'd really struggled just even walking up the corridor in our house. But then he would sit down and he said after about five minutes, he felt absolutely normal. So this is why he kept saying to me, I don't think this is a e worthy because I don't. you're ill, I'm not, you know, it's just I'm getting out of breath. And then, but nothing ever, his symptoms never changed. They stayed exactly the same. They didn't get worse, they didn't get better, they just stayed on level. So the antibiotics didn't do anything. And I think he'd been giving steroids as well, and they didn't do anything. So we went back a week later. and we did ask to see the original doctor, but she wasn't available. So we got put with a different doctor, which we were fine with. And again, I went to the appointment with him. She was running. I think his appointment was at some point 20 past nine in the morning, and she was running about 45 minutes late already. Now, obviously, having worked in a doctor's surgery.

Myself.

I know. I know it can happen, but also, I was a bit like, yeah, like.

It sounds like she was really late to work.

Yeah.

She was very, very heavily pregnant at the time. So, yeah. I mean, it could have been that a first patient turned up and was an absolute nightmare, you know, like I say, these things happen, but James is just getting really. so anxious waiting. And then we went in to the doctor's room and she at no point she was never rude. She was never like, you know, bad manners or anything like that. She just was so dismissive of it, of everything. Like she barely made any eye contact with us at all. One of us would say something and she just wouldn't respond to it at all. And I remember I was we sat next to him and we even looked at each other like that, like, oh, she's off red, this one. And we were both thinking because he said after, like, you know, okay, we'll get out of here and we'll go over another appointment. And she was just going on and on about all these different things. We were like, what symptoms are we looking for? Like, like, because James thought he might have had long covered because someone in his office had covered, like, the month before, and she said to her three times, this is an asthma. This is something else. This is new. I've never felt this before. And I've had asthma all my life. And she. She was talking about, like, symptoms of a collapsed lung. And she said, make sure you watch out for the symptoms of a collapsed lung. And then she, like, laughed. She's just like, huh? I mean, James loves it. She on well, like, what does. What symptoms are we looking for? Like, what are we talking about? Is this, like, an affection? Or are you talking someone else? She's like, no. You know, I think it's just this. I think it's just that. And then she asked him, which I now know is quite. It's. This is like a vital point. She asked him if he had experienced any cramp in his leg, which is very common. symptom of blood clots. And James said, yeah, I always. He's always had a lot of problems with his legs. He's had sciatica and he's had varicose veins and everything. And he said, yeah, but I always have cramp. And then I interrupted him and I went, I'll jump in here. And I said, yeah, but in the past week, it's been significantly worse. less than it usually is. You do usually have cramp, but this past week has been. And I. I even remember saying the words significantly, and she just didn't respond to me at all. So our reaction was just sort of like, well, if she's not worried, well, we shouldn't be worried, right? Because she's the doctor. I don't know. And then she just sort of was like, yeah, well, oh, James mentioned. and I'm worried it's my heart because a lot of men in his side of the family have heart issues. And she was like, no, I don't think it's anything, you know, she did like check his, you know, with the stethoscope, the thing on his back or whatever. Listen to his breathing. She says in her notes that she told us if it gets worse, go to A&E. There was no mention of A&E at any point. But the thing is, it never got worse until he passed away. It stayed exactly the same. And then she gave him a prescription and said, well, antibiotics will come back in a week. And when we went out, he was just like, she didn't listen to a single word I said. I was like, I know. And he's like, she just dismissed everything. I said. And then we went to reception and he was looking at the prescription she's given him. And he was like, there's something else on here. So she didn't tell me about this one. He had to Google it right at reception. And he's like, it was a, it's, oh, she'd given him another inhaler. And then she'd given him something else. And it was medication for asthma. And he's like, but I told her it just he wasn't like, ask her. This is like, these aren't asthma symptoms. And then he tries to make another appointment there and then, and a receptionist is like, I can't, because doctors not put it over. So we're like, right, okay, we'll make another appointment for next week. And then all the way home, he was just like, she didn't. She didn't listen to a single word. I said she completely. applause me. And we were like, surely it can't be any worthy if she's not worried. You know, I. We felt like she dismissed what he was saying, but surely if enough red flags had popped up, she would have gone, hang on, Dodge. So. And so we spent the next five days like that. Like, he booked another appointment. appointment. He took his medication, he took his, he did it all by the book. It was Sunday night, the kids were gonna be on half term in October and we were just getting them ready for bed and all day he's been a bit, oh, I don't really feel too well, but we were just putting it down to what exactly symptoms now for three weeks. It's obviously something. you know, he's obviously ill somewhere. And then he was just sat in the bed, and all of a sudden, he just flew back. Like, I. And I knew straight away he was. He wasn't messing about or, you know, he was out cold because the way he flew back and he started making this really weird. It was like, almost like fake snoring. It was really weird. It was. And to me, it looked like he's having. seizure. And then he came around. I was. I've been smacking him around the face.

Come on, wake up.

And he came around. And at first, he was really, like, he was. I mean, he was pale anyway, but he was, like, white. And then you could see all the colors just came back in his face, like, normal. And I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm freaking out. Like, he's like, no, no, I just fainted. And I said. I said, I don't know what that was, but it wasn't. feeling. I said, it looks like you had a seizure. And I was like, please, please, can you go to a e? And he's like, no, no, no, it's. It's calm down. He's like, it's fine. And then he just kind of sat there for a bit, and I was.

I'd been not on the phone to.

My mom or something. And I'd been asking him, I think you should go to a e. I think she's going. He's like, no, he said, honestly, I just couldn't get enough air. And I passed out because I couldn't get enough breath in. and by that point, he did look fine. He looked all his colors come back. He's talking. He just said he felt really tired. And I, in my head, I was thinking, well, yeah, you probably would feel tired if you just painted or. Because your body is just going to suddenly drop, isn't it? And then I convinced, well, not convinced, but I said to him, will you at least, if you're not going to go to a e, we at least call the doctor first. and make an emergency appointment or just go in and see him. And he's like, yeah, I'll promise to do that. So he texts his work friend and said, can you cover for me in the morning if any of my clients come in? He's like, yeah, yeah, sure. Are you okay? He said, oh, you're not feeling well? He's like, oh, I just fainted. And his mate texts back, he's like, oh my God, are you okay? And he replies, he said, Tom wants me to go to a & e but I think I'm okay. And then 10 minutes later, you died.

Wow.

That quickly. He just had another seizure, went back again. Same thing. Like, he was. He was sat right in front of me, and I can't. I can't say what. What I know. His face changed, so I. phoned 999, put my loudspeaker. I had to do CPR on him. And it's that awful. There's that awful sort of feeling that you don't register till later. But at the time, I knew we'd gone. And I remember saying, I was doing chest compressions and I was, you know, I was doing what she said. I was counting and blah, blah. the rest of it. I could hear the children crying downstairs because they could hear me. And then I just remember saying to this woman, I said, I think he's dead. Ambulance turned up. They took over. I had to go out of the room because our bedroom was suitable to fit all these people in. And then I went. I was at the. We've got, like, a townhouse. It's like three floors, but it's like, it's small. tall. And I went in my daughter's bedroom. The neighbors have come around to collect.

The children.

And sat on the end of my daughter's bed, which was at the bottom of our stairs to our bedroom. And at one point, I just. There was, like, a little thing on the floor. I just picked it up and just vomited right in it. And I was just like, you know, when you're thinking, like, what the hell is what was going on? And I was convinced at that point that they were going to come down and say, we've got him, but he's not having oxygen for a while, he might, you know, in a coma, that sort of thing. And then his doctor came down and he was like, oh, I'm Dr. So and so.

Okay.

He's like, oh, have you got children? I said, yeah, yeah. He said, but where are they now? And I said, oh, the next door with neighbours. And I don't remember bits of it, I guess that's shock. But this other doctor was there and he introduced himself and then I was sat in my daughter's bed and he crouched down in front of me and I instantly remember thinking shit, this is really bad now. And I was bracing myself because I thought they were gonna say something like like, you know, we need to take the banister out so we can get him down. So I was getting ready to say, I don't smash the house up. I don't care as long as you get him out. And then he said, he's not had access to his brain for a while for, you know, substantial amount of time. I was there and he went and he's. And he has died. And I was like, what? And I remember looking up at the stairs thinking, I I just. I just spoken to him, like, not 40, 50 minutes ago. I went past the stairs and I told him, come on, let's go up to there. And I just had this sudden. I didn't do it, but I just had this urge to, like, shout up the stairs to him. I'd be like, will you come and tell them? They're wrong. And I kept saying to this.

Yeah.

Like.

And I kept saying to this guy, and it's so sort of, like, cliche, but I kept saying to him, is this real? Like, am I dreaming? or is this, is this like a nightmare? And he's like, no, it is real. And I was like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah, he's like, I'm really sorry. Because obviously he has to make sure I understood. So he's having to, like, repeat it. And after a while, I just said to him, but he can't die because I love him. And oh, it's gonna always get said. And then he just said, I know you. I do, but he has died. I was just like, I don't know. It's that moment between me being told and no one else knowing yet. Not the children, not my parents, not any of my friends, no one. Single-handedly was the most loneliest experience I've ever felt. It was just. It was. horrible. And then I had to. I had to phone my parents and tell them. And then I had to. Eventually I went next door and I had to tell the children. And it was just still now, even when I say it out loud, I'm just like, I actually. I know it happened and I saw.

It happen.

But it feels unbelievable.

Right?

Like even a long time after, like it's unbelievable.

Yeah.

And I said, because I've been at our house today, like because I'm clearing our house out and I still look around us like, oh God, that was our normal, our scruffy little normal house that we did normal little family stuff. And it's, it feels so weird our lives now have almost been like split in two.

Yeah.

There's then and then there's now. And it's hard to think that there's like that sort of bridge that's happened.

And how old was James? 37. And how old were your children?

Our eldest was nine and our youngest was five.

It's just awful.

And I think, yeah, and it's, I'm, I'm so lucky that I've still got my parents, both of them. And then it's just a sort of grief I can't relate to with my own children, like losing your dad at five and nine. That's mental. And the week, the first week since, after James passed, because that night we, we moved in with my mum and and Dad, and we've. We've not been home since. Like, I. I've obviously been home, so, like, clear the house out. But we stopped living in that house that. That moment. And with our daughter being a little bit older, I just sat her down one day and I was like, look, I know you know this, but it's really important that I say to you that I did everything I could. I said, I promise you, I did everything I could to. Jazzie, the ambulance people did everything they could. Everyone worked really, really hard. I just, I want you to know that. I think, yeah, no, I know, I know, I know. And she went, but can I ask you something? I went, yeah, sure. You know, she was like, when I was in the bedroom with her brother, I could hear you counting. What were you counting? And she's referring to me doing. She has Impressions. And I just sat there and I was like, I can't tell her. I can't tell her that's what it was because I'm so worried she'd see something on television and then it would click in her head. And I was just like, you know, it's just something I needed to do to help daddy.

Yeah.

But I was like, God, it's. I don't know how to explain it to him. A lot of us know. yeah, I'm, I'm very open book. I'll, you know, talk for hours on end and all the rest of it. But with certain things like this, it's always that sort of Mindfield of, like, what should I tell them? And what should I hold back to protect them? So, yeah, that's the. I think. I think when she said that, that. It was that really hit home.

Yeah, because you don't know how not only am I dealing with... Go on, you say.

I was just saying not knowing how to deal with your own grief, but then having to manage two children who were both autistic anyway, but both under the ages of 10. Mental. Yeah, proper mental.

And yet their dad has died, they've witnessed it, and from that moment then their life is they're not even, they're not in their home. Everything's changed.

No. Literally, every single thing changed in our life. Everything. Wow. Even down to like the shows we watch, the things we eat, you know, really sort of little things that you don't think about. Everything changed.

And how long ago did this happen?

It was about 18 months ago, so it was the 22nd October 2023.

And today is the 15th of May 2025. So yeah, 18 months ago. Yeah. So the James is in a bigger body, you're in a bigger body. Now you, something that you mentioned in your story when you, when you did survey. I feel like it's a feeling that many people know, and I feel like it's a feeling that people can feel gaslighted around. But you said, I know, or I have a feeling that if James went in there in a smaller body, the outcome could have been different and he would have been listened to.

Yeah.

Tell me more about that. Like, how do you get that? feeling?

Because this is what I've said before, it's like as soon as we walked in, the eye contact dropped, the responses to what we were saying, even if she'd asked us a question, dropped. And it's just something I recognize as a bigger person in many different sort of conversations, not just with doctors, just out in public or when I've been work. The fat person almost becomes, ironically, invisible. They stop getting listened to. And it felt very much like that.

And.

So when we were in there, I just. I knew it. I just. I knew that was why she saw his size and he was tall as well, so we. Because he's tall, he obviously carries a lot.

Away.

She saw his size. She saw he had asthma. She probably saw that he had back problems, which were completely unrelated to his weight. They started when he was 12. And she's instantly made that assumption. But then in the appointment, she's like, you know, I'll mention this. I'll mention this. Crossing all the eyes and don't know the cross all T's, don't know the eyes. things like that. It felt like she wanted us out of the appointment and she had to say a certain type of thing to make sure her back was covered or to make sure she felt like she'd done the right. The right thing. But I just. I know. And I'm so glad I was sat in that appointment because I could say, I saw it. I saw her Denina change when she saw we were both big. people how she would ask us a question, we'd answer and we'd get no response from her. It was. I saw it. So I. I know that's what it was. And she could deny it to the end of time. You could not convince me otherwise. I know exactly what I saw.

Yeah.

And that's the thing. Like, we know as. As people in bigger bodies, you can tell. and with James saying as well, James saying it's, this is not asthma. I have asthma. And you know, you know, you know what it. I've had asthma since I was a child, too.

Yeah.

Same.

So, you know. And then. So there's that, that not belief. And it's like, oh, well, he's in a bigger body, therefore. Well, what do you expect type of thing? You know, he's going to be out of breath because he's, yeah, he must be unfit or he must be. whatever, whatever assumptions we just don't know.

I mean, you know, because of James, he has a lot of mobility issues because of that. So he wasn't fit. He would have been the first person to tell you that. But he was unfit because he had back problems. So then it frustrates me that even a doctor can't think, okay, well, maybe this problem could be related to the weight, but maybe we should also check it's not. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm sure there is people where the weight will affect the health. We all know that. But it's. It's the automatic assumption that I feel potentially ended his life. It wasn't his fault. He hasn't looked. she could have sent us to Aidee that second and he still might have passed away. But the fact is we would have had those five days to try and save his life. Instead he felt even when he went to work his boss was saying she wasn't listening to me, you know, I feel really ignored by it. And those five days now in my opinion we were completely wasted. We literally watched him die in front of us without realizing.

So what so all because.

I was.

Gonna say all because she didn't change the way she said something because of an assumption about his size.

So what was you mentioned blood clot, what was the official cause of his death?

So the official cause was deep veins thrombosis and a pulmonary embolism. And then when I asked the coroner, what does that mean? He's like, he's had a blood clot in his leg and it's traveled up from his leg to his lung.

Yeah.

And then Paul. That's when I think the pulmonary embolism.

Yeah, that's. That's how much.

But when I.

That's how my dad died. same way. And I feel like with my dad too, my dad was a very tall guy and also he was, I'm not sure if he'd be classed as fat really, but I guess yeah, yeah, he had a big belly and he was just fobbed off for literally years because he was a smoker and so they just said go away, stop smoking, he did and then he was just waiting around and then he just died. suddenly.

Yeah.

So anyway, continue, continue with what you were going to say.

But I was just like, after I spoke to the coroner, because I, when he had that first seizure and he came round, I was thinking, oh, has he got some kind of tumor in his lung, you know, something that would affect his, his. breathing. I had no idea that shortness of breath was a symptom of a blood clot. And then the second I. I entered the call with the coroner, he was amazing, by the way. I Googled it because I have really. I really have health anxiety anyway, so I also have. I have a rule myself that if I feel the need to. Google some sort of illness or symptom, I have to go to the NHS website to do it. And not just some random thing. So that's like exactly what I did. I went straight to the NHS website and they listed six main symptoms of having a blood clot. At the time of that second appointment, James had five of them. and I just. Two of them.

What?

Bear in mind, I'm not a medical professional, but two of them I would have considered to be, like, a red flag.

Yeah.

So if you had two of them, I would have been like, not do any.

Yeah. Yeah.

But the fact he had five out of six, how is that not registered? You know, maybe his weight could be in.

She

But just to be honest, let's go get this checked out because you're hitting these markers. Why is it different for us? And so I do feel that has he been thin or thinner, she would have changed how she says.

Yeah.

What she says. And it would have been. It would have been that just to be honest, because the thing is, we would have gone to a e straight away if she said that it was, you know, she claims that she said, if it gets worse, go to a&e it didn't get worse. And that's a symptom of a blood clot. And he had all these symptoms and you didn't think to say, just to be honest, Dave, let's get you to A&E if we're wrong, perfect. But we didn't have that opportunity. That opportunity was taken away from him.

And so did that doctor, when she found that what happened was she. I don't know if you. If you know this, but was she like, oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry I up.

No.

What happened?

She went on maternity leave pretty soon after. So I did. I mean, in the early days, I didn't really know what to do. There was an incident as well. the day after his funeral, I was. I felt really ill. I was really, really poorly. And I just went to bed. Mom and dad looked after the kids. I just got in bed, just cried. I was ill. I had James's mobile phone with me because he was still getting messages from clients and things that I had to tell all these people. And then the phone rang, and it was our doctor's surgery, and I answered it and. They were like, oh, hi, this is so and so from the doctor. It was a pharmacist from the actual doctor's surgery, the in-house pharmacist. And she's like, oh, is this James Chlory's phone? I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm his wife, Samantha. And they went, oh, I'm just calling because James got put on some new medications a couple of weeks ago and I wanted to see how he was getting on with them. And this is the day after his funeral. And I went, he died a month ago, I said, oh, I'm really, really sorry. I'm really sorry. And then hung up. And I put a complaint in about that. And the surgery says, oh, there's no one who has any recollection of that. So after that, I was like, well, if you, you were bothered about that complaint, wait till the year the big one. So I put this official complaint in to.

Yeah.

NHS big. It took, it took me, I think, about close to an hour to write it all out because I wanted every little bit of detail. And I emailed it and they eventually got back to me. And at first they were sort of really, you know, really sympathetic, really supportive of what had happened. And, you know, we're really sorry this happened. We take these things very seriously and, and, you know, we're gonna look into this and all the rest of it. and then I was like, oh great, the take us to the hospital.

Yeah.

And then they'd asked me because I'm, I was his next to the king anyway, but they asked me to sign a consent form so they could access his medical files. I was like, yeah, brilliant. I'll do that straight away. Did it. A couple of weeks later, I get, we've never received that form from you. Okay, we did, but I'll do it again. it again and didn't hear anything. And I would email them, I'd email the person who emailed me originally, then I'd email the one I sent a complaint to. Absolutely nothing. Well and truly ghosted completely. And then it was only because I was at a friend's wedding in September and I was speaking to someone I know there and she works. She's in management for the actual ambulance call centers. And she was like, no, don't bother complaining to the NHS. They'll pop you off. Go to your local MP. Oh, because they'll now push it through. And I was like, oh, okay. So that's exactly what I did. Emailed it to our local MP. I said, you know, James was born and raised in St. Louis. This has happened. They were brilliant. They emailed me back pretty much straight away just to say, look, we've got this. We'll pass it on. We'll get in touch. And they did that. They got in touch with me. They sent the complaint onto the NHS. It was only then the NHS got back in contact with me and they sent this big letter about this report they'd done. The doctor in question was still on maternity leave, so they they couldn't include her in it. So they had another doctor come in on her part. And I was like, well, I understand why, but who in earth? And they basically said it was this big, long-winded thing of, like, you know, these things are hard to detect and, you know, a doctor can't always get it right. And I was like, I know this. I know all this. And then the, the line really, really stuck with me. They mentioned that from their point of view, she hasn't done anything medically wrong. And I was like, I don't agree with it, but I can understand how they've come to that conclusion because it is a case of what I'm saying against what she's saying. And I disagree with what she wrote in the notes. as well. But the lines that really, really got me and I think it'll stick with me forever is they said, you know, she's a good doctor. She's a really nice doctor.

Oh, off. Oh, great. Well, then that's fine, then.

And I was like. I was like, I don't care. I didn't need her to be a nice person. I needed her to be a competent doctor, and she. failed. She could have been rude as anything, but if she would have got James the help that he needed, I would have dealt with it. I would have been like, oh, my God, you remember that rude doctor that saved your life?

But.

And I was like. But James was a nice person. He's a really nice person. Everyone liked him. They liked him more than they liked me. I know that for a fact. I know what neighbors did. That's as. so for them to say that, like, I can't ever, ever prove this, but to me, it felt very much like, oh, well, it's okay. This happened to him because he's fat. You know what I mean? Like, oh, well, that's all right. And I was just like, he was a dad. He's a husband. It was a really, really well-loved son-in-law. And you just completely, in one sentence, you completely dismissed his entire existence. Because you used to think the doctor's a nice person. I'm what? I don't care.

Tell us a little bit about, you mentioned James is always a great person.

Person.

Is there anything that you want to share about who James is so that we have a sense of the loss that he. His. His passing has meant to you or your children or the community or just a loss of a human.

Right. He.

Yeah, he was just. He was. He was a really lovable, grumpy Northern lad. And we joked once because one of our neighbors said she bumped into me in the street and she said, oh, I saw James walking down the road. Oh, he always looks so happy. And I told James this. We were both laughing like, no, he's grumpy a lot. But that was, you know, he really, he really, really, really struggled with his mental health, like, badly. But he would always power through because he was so determined. He didn't have a great upbringing. and he was so determined to be a better parent to his children than his parents were to him. And it meant so much to him. But all he wanted in life was he wanted us to be debt free, he wanted to stay at home, be nice and cozy, and for us to just be together. That was his.

Will.

He didn't want to be a millionaire, he doesn't after all this, he just wanted us to be comfortable together. And I walked past him in the office once and I stopped and I started laughing at him, not in a mean way, and he was like, what? I was like, you sat there eating your snacks, watching Bob Mortimer and what's the best White House fishing show, which is his favorite show. Playing a little game when you could think about how to say, Penguins. I think he's so awesome. He's just so like this big ginger guy who looks like a lumberjack with big beard. I was like, you're so awesome. And he said, years and years ago, when I was pregnant with our son, I'd come home from a work Christmas party and I'd caught on neighbors having a bit of a fling. and I went in the front door and I was like, oh my god, I've just seen this. And he said to me, he said, are we really boring? And I went, yes. And I'm very glad about that. I said, we don't do, we don't have drama. We just, we just want everyone to be nice and happy and cozy. And the day before he actually passed away, I've been out with some of my friends for lunch and it'd been one of the first times since the kids had gone back to school that I'd had some, like, proper alone time. And I was really excited to go shopping. That's why I had lunch and get a little coffee and all this. And I remember being in town, being like, I just want to go home. Everyone's doing the evening. It was like football was on. There's loads of people. And I went home, got my coffee, went home, and I said to James, I said, all I wanted to do was come home and just be together.

Together.

I said I wasn't even bothered about us doing stuff together, just that we were at home together. And I'm so glad I said that to him because it was. It was the day before he passed away. And I'm so glad I had that opportunity where I just said, I love being at home with you.

Oh.

And how long were you together?

In.

We were together for 13 years and we just celebrated our 10-year wedding anniversary. about three, three, four months before.

So.

What, how could that appointment have gone if it was like a size inclusive appointment? Like what differences could that doctor have done?

She could have thought about what else it could be before she got to wait. because the thing it actually was wasn't exclusive to fat people. Anyone could get a blood clot, anyone could get DVT.

And.

I wish she just. I don't know how this isn't ingrained in a doctor, to be honest. If his weight was the issue, it wouldn't have killed him on the spot. A blood clot can kill you on the spot. And it did kill him on the spot. So to me, that's more important that she would have figured out that first and then maybe said, well, you know, maybe we can look, maybe your weight's the issue. And as it turns out, his weight wasn't the issue. That wasn't the problem. So I just. I just wish. that she would have thought that first instead of, oh, it's you're a big guy, you've got asthma, you've got back problems.

Yeah.

It could have made the world of difference to us.

Yeah, literally. Literally. So what message would you like to share with healthcare providers?

Think.

Realistically think that what would you say to someone who's thinner? Think that first and then you can address if the weight's the issue. But just having that moment of thinking, hang on, this could be something else. I've always said since it happened, if she had just worded it differently and said, just to be on the safe side, pop to Aileen. That's it. If someone's hitting those markers, don't make the assumption that because they're big, it's probably nothing. We don't. You don't know that. No one can know that. So think.

First.

Take that moment, take that minute to just think, just to be on the same side. Because that could have saved his life, but we'll never know.

Do you feel like sharing your story has made given you a sense of, I don't know, like, this is real. Like, I, we, I know what I witnessed and it's real and, like, is that helpful in any, in any way for you or.

No.

Yes and no. There's a part of me that it's, it's given me that fuel to carry on talking about it and. being, you know, adamant and how important education is and stuff like that. The other side of it is I'm almost mad at myself because I've spent five years talking about this for it to happen right under my nose. And at the time I was like, I can't believe I've. Since I started on Tick Tock in, like, 2020, and I've been pretty much exclusively apart from maybe the first couple of months I was on there talking about the importance of listening to fat people and giving them that space they need and being inclusive especially when it comes to healthcare and it's just happened right underneath my nose and it's almost.

Like.

I feel sometimes like going online and being like me. Look, look what happens. This is, this is, I couldn't, I couldn't have any more of an example to give people. He wasn't, he wasn't listened to and he lost his life before 40. Come on.

So you're, you're kind of, are you kind of blaming yourself a little bit?

I did initially. because I just felt, you know, I think it is, anyone would feel sort of like guilty to a certain extent because I was like, you know, I was his wife, I should have pushed it more, I should have told him to go to A&E or I should have told him to not move out the doctors until he gets another doctor's appointment. And then I went to bereavement and I said that to the therapist and as soon as I said it she looked at me like and she's like you're not a doctor, you're not a medical professional, how were you meant to know that? and I was like, do you know what? How was I meant to know that? Do you know what I mean? Like how was I... so I guess there'll always be that sort of thing, that guilt I carry that I've spoken so openly about this in the past and for it to happen to my favorite verse.

But.

I, I always remember the, the look and the therapist face when I said that, her being like, so what are you on about? Like, you're not a doctor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's why I have to hold on to that because I think otherwise I would, I would blame himself.

It's so easy when you, like, hindsight 2020, it's so easy now, you know, the, the outcome, you know, you can imagine, like, refusing to leave the surgery and, you know, everything that you do exactly, like you said, pull the house down, it doesn't matter. But in that moment, that's not what was, you know, you were not. Yeah, you weren't the, you had a medical professional in front of you saying, yeah, you know, nonchalant. So why on earth would you have done that? That would have been like, I guess, weird. But, you know, I'm sure James would have been like, oh, you know, I don't know. You know, it just wouldn't make sense for you to have done that at that time.

If his symptoms had got worse, then obviously we would have gone straight away. I would. ordered in there. But this is, this is what I keep saying to people. This wasn't the first appointment. This was the second appointment with the exact same symptoms. And now I was a medical receptionist. I hold no medical degree despite what people think whatsoever. But even from my point of view as a receptionist, there's a list you have. flags for certain things. And I don't understand how she completely ignored that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, no, I do understand. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's still unbelievable.

Yeah. It was so. Because when I've mentioned it on social media, when I mentioned. When I first mentioned it on Tick Tock, I told everyone that he passed away, and then I eventually came on and I told him what had happened. I had at least five, six people in the comments saying, as soon as you mention the cramp, or as soon as you mentioned shorts of breath, I knew exactly what you're talking about. I was like, how is it they know, but the doctor didn't think, like, wow, that will blow my mind forever.

Oh, my goodness. And you mentioned your, your account, by the way, of our listeners. I've been following Tam for a number of years, maybe even, like, close to when you started doing your account. And Tam is hilarious and makes really funny videos on an obviously really important topic. Is. What's your account name? It's chubby mermaids, right?

Isn't it?

Yeah, it's chubby mermaids with an S on. and it's chubby underscore mermaid on insta because someone had already paged it. I might got to Tik someone had.

Someone has Fierce fatty on Instagram and I messaged them saying hey you know can I can I get this handle I can give you some money and they never respond to so they don't use the account and so I'm F.

And they're thin anyway Is there anything else that you wanted to share that I haven't asked you or we've not discussed?

I don't think so. It's pretty much where we are now. It's, it's, I kind of, it's frustrating because I know that doctors back at work now.

What do you mean?

We're still back at work. so the doctor, like, yeah, because she was on maternity leave, so. And I've been sat in the waiting room when I've seen a name, and I'm like, I know you're right there. And this is actually an important thing I wanted to add. At no point from that point to now have I ever been, like, gunning for her job or gunning for for her to lose a license. I just wanted her to recognize that she'd made an error and she'd missed something. And for her to say, do you know what? I did make a judgment and I'm sorry. Yeah. And I got nothing.

Yeah.

Nothing.

It would always, it would be cathartic, right? Like if someone, if someone fucks up and they're just like, well, I didn't. It's, it's more enraging than if they were just like, yeah, did up. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

And the. The response in the complaint was very much like, we're sorry.

Yeah.

Which is a non-apology.

I was like, you may as well just not have bothered me. You may as well just not said anything.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But it's. It's just like I said, I'm not. This is why I'll never mention a name. I'll never mention the name of the surgeon.

Surgery.

I'm not looking to tear a life apart or, you know, I don't even think she shouldn't be a doctor. I don't know what she's actually like as a doctor, because that was my first and only encounter. She could be amazing. She could have saved tons of lives and, you know, all the rest of it. But she gets to go home to all her family, and I'm now stuck trying to figure. figure out how to sell a house and figure out what I'm gonna do in five, ten years time financially, figure out all this stuff. And it's just. Oh, it feels like such a kicking teeth, such a kick in the teeth. Not to get any kind of decent enough response, even if it was something I didn't want to hear, even if she was like, you know what? I don't think I did. nothing wrong. However, I'm really sorry. Nothing. I just think our life is so different now and it's horrible. It's really horrible. And there's nothing I can do about it. Nothing.

I'm so sorry that. That everything. Everything that you've shared, everything that. That you and your whole family and the. commutely have experienced because of this and losing James. It's just awful. It's just terrible.

He's really fit as well. It's so annoying.

For our North American listeners, the British term fit means sexy, attractive.

Yeah.

Really?

So rude of him to just go and die like that when he was so fit and he was such a great.

See.

See his Fitness and his beardless and his gingerness in all its Glory. Yeah.

This is the thing. He has such a low opinion of himself because, like, he hasn't. He had an awful upbringing. His. His mom was very much. She made him very self-conscious that was weight from a very early age. So he grew up thinking, oh, I'm really ugly. I'm really this.

That.

And I was like, there was never enough words to tell him how handsome.

I thought he was.

Yeah, I tell him all the time. I'll be like, oh, my God, he's so handsome. But that, you know, that's just another side of that phobia that we often miss. And, yeah, he was. Yeah, he was a. He was a good guy, and he was fit, and he was. Brilliant. And he was grumpy and we just worked perfectly together.

Thank you for sharing.

Two grumpy googers.

Two grumpy googers.

Thank you.

It's clear that you loved each other so much. Love each other so much.

Yeah.