Episode 111 Transcript

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Welcome to the Fierce Fatty Podcast. I'm your host, Victoria Welsby and this is episode 111. Today, we're talking about before and after photos.

I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident fifth party who loves every inch of this jelly. society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the first fatty podcast Let's begin.

1:18

Hey, Fassi you're so fine you So find your Brahma man hey patty. A fatty Hey patty. You're so fine You're so funny blow my mind. Hey Betty. Patti, you're so fine. A blur add another layer of budget that hey, the greatest lyrics I think of all time Bahar boys who let the dogs out let's go fluffy. Let's go scruffy. Let's go up infested Monroe.

Let's just a great great line and I think it's a great line to say to your friends when you're ready to go let's go fluffy let go scruffy let go you flea infested man growl someone just text me was still dosed. I was still streaming we did it we just did a stream we just did a stream on fireside and I hadn't ended the show so probably people could hear me having a little sing song with you but that's okay I just ended that I just ended the stream so we've got another episode with some today the person with loads of letters in her name and episode of death two diets where we were talking about before and after pictures and not only the standard before and afters but the you know where someone's loses weight and after they've been on a diet but also the quote unquote body positive before and afters where people have quit dieting and now they show a picture of them now that they look at me I'm so happy now that I don't die it but I'm also have a bigger body. Look how thin I used to be type of thing. We're talking today.

I like these episodes of settler because I I like having a chin. But I get a chinwag when I do an episode on my own, you will can't talk back to me. Yeah, it's so rude. Why don't you respond? Why don't you talk to me? Yeah, so I like having someone to talk to. But I don't want to do I'd still I still don't want to do have guests on the show. Because it's just too much of a ball like honestly, it's just too much of a ball like to to get people booked in and reach out to people and I'm sure if I started letting people on the show then I'd get loads of pitches and people who are like Oh, I like dieting and Lilly Lilly and it'd be annoying so anyway, it's just gonna be me from now on but you know, we still got another we've got six episodes in total of deaths and diets. And this is the flip third one so we've still got three more episodes with summer. I do like it I too like it you know, having a friend. So let's get into the episode today. I hope you enjoy it and I hope the Bihar boys is going to be stuck in your head or that other song that I said about fatties gets stuck in your head like Alma okay. Okay, this let's go into this episode.

4:38

Why did we come up with this topic?

4:39

I don't know you came up with

4:43

the story. I I was getting on an airplane and I was and I was like, I wanted a magazine that was at the airport and they had the People magazine and it had buddy white on the cover and it was so weird because it was like it was Like, the day it was like the day or two after Betty White had passed away. And but it was the cover celebrating her turning 100 because obviously they had like put this magazine together prior to her passing.

So anyways, I bought the magazine. And one of the one of the sections, which was, which was, interestingly enough, buried in the back was the section about like these people lost half their size. And I don't know, I don't know if you remember this. But that used to always be the cover story for People Magazine in January. Like I just I remember that that was always that was always on the cover. So it was interesting that it was it was buried in the back, there was no mention of it on the cover, at least I don't think so. And

5:47

Betty White did have badass nose and was like, he was on leaving put me on the cover and put those other shit into the back.

5:54

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah, so I read I read it for research. And it just got me, like, just super fired up about it. And I thought we can have a really cool discussion because we also see kind of like, in the reverse before and after in the body positive world. So people showing, you know, like, I used to be thin and now I've gained weight and I'm actually happier. And we wanted to have a discussion around both of those things. Because yeah, it's just sort of interesting, the impact that that these pictures on the the narrative, that the impact that it has on us.

6:32

Mm hmm. Yes, yes. Yes. And I actually, I have been exposed to this recently because I don't know if you know, some of but you can actually check out magazines from the library. And so I was like, Do you know what, I'm going to look at some really trashy magazines because I haven't looked at them in years. And you don't have to pay for them. So I was like, let's look at this one gay times. Yes, please. Fishing weekly. Ah, so I just skimming lots of different magazines. And yeah, that I did see that that stuff. And I used to log before and after pictures. That would be my favorite thing.

7:05

I was wondering Yeah, did you cuz I try to remember if I did, I'm not.

7:11

Yes, cuz I used to be like, Oh my god, they used to be such a fat loser like me. And now look at them. Like they clearly they've changed their life around. If only I do what they did that I can be like them. So yeah, yeah.

7:27

Yeah. So you used to actually find that inspiring? Oh, yeah.

7:30

I loved it. Whenever I'd get the Weight Watchers magazine. I knew it was my goal to be in the Weight Watchers magazine. Because I was like, I am the even my, my What did I call it the leader? The leader was like, Oh, you could be in the magazine. And I was like, yes. And Thank fuck, it never happened because I quit didn't quit, you know, you know, diets diets. It just didn't happen. Anyway. Yeah. Well, you know, I,

7:58

I worked as a nutritionist like 12 years ago, or 1010 12 years ago. And I used to take before and after pictures of my clients and like, do like, challenges where we would take before and after pictures. And so no, I feel really bad about it now, because I realized, like, how damaging and problematic it was, but I can't even

8:20

imagine you doing that sound like it's just so foreign. About you. Yeah, but it's

8:28

like, when you're like when that's your business like that. I mean, that's what a lot of people use to sell like nutrition services and things like that. And, and the kind of like, dirty behind the scenes of it is like, you know, you realize that clients don't actually stay that way that it's like it's a yo yo cycle. And so you know, thankfully I had my own like awakening with it that then allowed me to, you know, make amends hopefully and move away from that.

But definitely I was total I absolutely was, was was guilty of that because I just didn't I was so in my in it myself in terms of like, well, this is you know, I'm helping people get healthy and I'm helping them be confident and all that stuff. But the reality was like I would say the vast majority of them still struggled with food still hated themselves and ended up back like it was never permanent.

9:20

So when did you when you were taking those photos you mentioned Oh, you know it was temporary that weight loss. Did you know that the time are we now they started their life and they're gonna be amazing.

9:32

Yeah, no, I was like and they just need to keep doing it and like you know and so so i That's why I have like I do I empathize with people in this industry because I think if you don't know better, you don't know better, right? Which is why like, I don't like to kind of shame individuals like I you know, I prefer to just call it the overall issue because, like, I was in that frame of mind where I was like, oh, no, like and I was doing it from like the health perspective and Even like I pulled out some of the quotes from like the People magazine I read, where it's like, no, we're not using diets like my slogan was, like, it was like something around like, like no like it was it was a non dieting slogan like I can't remember exactly what it was I my my in laws had a postcard one of my old marketing postcards from when my my nutrition business. They had, like in there I found one in their basement. And I saw the slogan and I was like, oh my god, like I used to save. Like I shouldn't even remember. That's the same thing that was kind of being some of the stuff that was being echoed in this People magazine was that it was like, one of the most like I swapped fad diets for counting macronutrients and like, get rid of it.

10:48

I swapped fad diets for another fad diet, but I don't believe it the fad diet.

10:53

Yeah, or like it was like you have to lose a diet mentality. This person was doing like, what's deemed like a very restrictive diet. I won't mention which one but yeah.

11:07

The mind trickery that we do. And you saying that you were saying, as a non diet thing you ahead of your time, some of because, you know, all the diets are doing it now. But if you were saying like I'm a non diet diet all those years ago, then I mean, how are you? Are you on the pulse? You were doing it?

11:24

Well, hopefully they'll find their way out like I did. I was an early adopter of garbage. But yeah, it was. Yeah, it's like, it's interesting to reflect back on it and, and just realize, like, I feel really bad. Like I, I hope I hope I've been able to, you know, yeah,

11:45

I mean, you've you've you've read like paid your parents, oh, my god, like 100 times over. interesting to think about the way that we were thinking back then. And I found a no, because I like keeping note, you know, in the Notes app, I like keeping notes. And I've got notes back for and like to like 2013 or something. And so I was I looked for I look for a search for a word I can't remember it was like health or something. Yeah. Because I was looking for health every size and my notes. And I had written this thing to myself about, you know, what negative thoughts and beliefs I have about myself and one of my negative thoughts or beliefs was, I will never be thin. And then I wrote myself like a pep talk of, Oh, my God, yes, you are going to be thin. I mean, come on you you're going to be so thin, and you're going to work out every single day.

And people are gonna say how do you do it? And you're gonna be like, it's so effortless. And I was like, talking about how healthy I was. And I was like, what, you know, every day like walking around with a six pack. Like, I couldn't even remember that I wrote that. And I was thinking like that. I was like, really trying to positive, you know, manifest being thin. Yeah. And it was only like, I don't know, seven years ago or something. But I was thinking like that. Wow. This to me. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought I was like, I probably thought it was body positive at the time. So anyway,

13:07

yeah. Yeah, right. It's like, it gets all muddled. I mean, it gets co opted and muddled, and we convince ourselves of things just to convince ourselves.

13:22

We have to, we both asked our audiences, what do you think of weight loss before and after pictures? I've got my results here. And I said, Do you love them? Or do you hate them? And 13% said, Love, and 87% said, Hey, so what do you think of weight loss? before and after pictures? 13% said love. 87% said, Hey, and then a couple of people messaged me saying, oops, I said, Love. But I meant to say, hey, we can resume that numbers a little bit lower than 13%, let's say 10%. And I really get that kind of the love thing I've seen before and after pictures, it's feels so intoxicating. Especially if you're new to this stuff, because like I mentioned at the beginning, I just would feel so inspired by seeing these everyday people what I would see as them changing their lives, but the reality is probably very different. Isn't it summer?

14:21

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's kind of like it's it's one season of their life. And I think we all know that there's like they after and then like, what happens after that? You know, what happens like two years after that, what happens five years after that, and I think you and I both know that the majority of people blame it on themselves. They're like, well, you know, I just didn't try hard enough. Or, you know, I just I didn't have enough willpower. And the reality is that like, none of those things are true. Your body was just legitimately trying to keep you alive and that you weren't meant to be like on that diet, which is how I felt like which is how I feel when I see these images of these people in this magazine. And I'm like, they tell the story.

And the narrative is like, the words they use are like, I finally love myself. It's like Christmas morning, like, you know, like, you know, and it solves that idea. And I almost feel bad. Like, I don't want to pity people, but I kind of I'm kind of like, oh, like, what's that gonna look like, in two years or three years? You've been featured in this magazine, like you are a poster child for? Yes. It's like, how much more damaging is that to you? If your body can't sustain that, like if you know, which majority of our bodies can't, without maintaining, you know, disorder behaviors, which, for the most part, like our body's going to fight back against?

15:46

Yeah, that's such a good point about you know, they've been in a magazine and how much shame they probably feel after because, you know, the after, after the before and after the after, when when, you know, 95% plus of those people who are now bigger than their before picture, and, like, That must feel like shit. Yeah, camera just went off. That must feel really, really bad. And yeah, it makes me thankful that when I was doing all that dieting stuff, there wasn't, you know, I didn't have social media and all that type of stuff. But I was still a massive bellend about it and told everyone about the fact that I was losing weight. And I was such a good person. So you know, yeah, well, yeah. I

16:32

mean, that's like what you're supposed to do, right? Like, yeah, with other people stay accountable.

16:37

Yeah. I wonder, like, when I see But now when I see before and afters instead of being like, oh my god, I love it. I'm just like, like you, I have such deep compassion for that person. Because I'm just I just think exactly what you said. What are they going to be feeling like in 2345 years? Because it's probably it's probably going to be a lot of shame. And you know, hopefully they found another way, but it seems kind of it's kind of like hoping for them that maybe this is the kind of final straw before they find fat positivity and anti diet and all that type of stuff. Yeah, you know, you never know Right? So yeah,

17:21

because for a lot of people it's a lifetime Sunday number more grim is just call it a life sentence but yeah,

17:33

when you would do when you were taking the before and after pictures you know before and after pictures the before the person's like, oh, you know holes in like they're covered in shitstain but they haven't brushed my hair in three weeks. They've got bits of straw coming out of their hair and you know, they've got shit in their eyes and they're dribbling and stuff and then the after picture they've got you know, full makeup and all that type of stuff and probably posed and probably Photoshop Would you ever like in the first picture be like you know going sticking out a bit more or

18:08

no, no, no, no, my work like that at all my were like my more like, you know, like, you look how you look? And then you look how you look like okay, I didn't I didn't like no I didn't I didn't I didn't curate those in any way. No, I guess it was more in my mind it was more for them to see the difference versus like something to use as like a you know, like a marketing a market a marketing thing. But you know, social media wasn't really around much fun. So thank goodness not not in the way that it is now. And so

18:43

see if there was social media maybe you'd have like a sack in the back that you'd bring out and be like, go on this like ugly sack and like this, you know, you know like on The Biggest Loser and they would just make them were really get these

18:58

are on. I'm just gonna like use the spray tanner on you in the after to like make you like contour ABS on your body really toned. No. Yeah, no, I and I like for me personally, I'm trying to think like, if I found I must have found before and afters. Inspiring, but I also feel like, like, there was like, a few years of time where I was just perpetually frustrated because like, it didn't matter what I did, like, my body wouldn't change anymore. And and so I feel like there was a point in time around there, where I actually like they made me feel even more inadequate because it was just a reminder of like, see, you can't do it. Like there's something defective in you. So but, but now when I see them like I'm more just like, oh, like I know what that's like. Yeah, I know. I know what happens.

19:58

Yeah. I'm I'm, if any other than my social media, I'm immediately blocked I got, I don't want to see that shit because even even me who I do this work constantly, that's that type of stuff can still be triggering. And so I'm like getting that out of my brain. So I don't know, I just think for other people who are still on the journey and if they haven't curated their social media, and they've still got things like that, because it's kind of, you know, like, I kind of like looking at it, how much that's affecting people to still see before and after pictures. So my advice is, if you still have anything like that, because you know, you know, like, Oh, I know, it's like a guilty pleasure to see it. I just really like looking at it. Get rid of that shit. Probably not doing anything good for your brain. Yes.

20:44

And my survey was similar. It was like, actually was stronger. It was 96% dislike and 4% inspiring. And someone said that it triggers feelings of not being good enough, and it takes them right back to where they were when they were in that headspace. So yeah, I mean, obviously, our results are gonna be biased, because people that follow us have similar belief systems, but

21:07

yeah, I'm yet I was surprised like, 13% of mindset. Love. I was like, yeah, probably, they

21:15

might have read it wrong. Because you put love first. Like, when I saw the screen capture of yours, it was a little like, my mind would have thought the hate would be first. But I You probably did get a couple people who hit it incorrect. Yeah,

21:29

I was. Yeah. I think that's the most most accurate for our type of audience. But I think in the in the world in general, I think people probably be like, 5050, or even more that like him. Right?

21:44

I would think so. I would think so. Yeah. There's like a whole, like, good for that. Like, yeah, Tality. You know, like, it's still seen as like, an a call, you know, like an accomplishment, like, your body is an accomplishment. And, yeah, you know, so yeah, I unfortunately, I would agree that it is probably skews more heavily towards people finding them inspiring.

22:06

Mm hmm. Unfortunately, and I've just realized that I look at celebrity before and after pictures of you know, here's a picture of a celebrity when they were 20. And here's a picture of them now that they're 40. I've just realized that I look at those pictures.

22:25

Oh, what makes you do that?

22:30

Shit. I don't know. Like, I I think I see it more as Oh, isn't it interesting? How isn't it into what? I don't see those

22:42

links. I'm not I don't think I've ever let

22:46

my Instagram feed and say we're like, oh, celebrities when they were 20. And celebrities when they're now and it's like, oh, Helen Mirren is now at and look at her when she was 20. So it's kind of like, Oh, look at what celebrities look like when they were young. And so

22:59

yeah, yeah, that makes more sense. Yeah.

23:02

I was like, Oh my God, have I like, discovered some like, fucked up thing. No, I'm okay. I'm okay.

23:09

You're good. You're good. Should we talk about the opposite then, like, the pictures that we see that show? The, like the body positive before and afters where someone was like, I was unhappy when I was thinner. And now I've gained weight, and I'm happier and more confident. Like,

23:26

yeah,

23:27

so what do I What do you think of those?

23:30

Yeah, we know what to begin with. When I was new to body positivity. I used to be like, yes. Oh, my God, this is amazing. And now I'm like, a little bit more nuanced in my feelings about of, you know, what they're trying what they're saying is, what they're not they're saying, if we take it on a kind of surface level is, I'm happy and it doesn't matter what I look like, Yeah, but there is still that, that message that's, that's underneath there of, I used to have an asset, yet I wasn't happy. And now I don't have that asset, which is a thin body.

And I've learned to be happy, even though I'm missing an asset. So it's not breaking down the assumption that having a smaller body is inherently good. And so it needs to be I think, if people show them like before and after, when, you know, I used to be really thin. And now and I was miserable. There needs to be a more of a dissection of that's so interesting that I used to think that my body is an asset and, and well, I don't know if they even had the dissection or the or the deeper look into it. I don't think they'd be posting the picture anyway. Oh, I'm still presenting my body as a thing to be consumed in a way that's not maybe helpful. Yeah. Yeah.

24:58

So again, I did a couple of those in the beginning. Love it. And they would get, like so much engagement. And when I stopped doing those engagement went down, and I think it's like, so I get why people do them because they are more likely to like, go viral, get more followers, like, it sells the message. And, and so I get I get that as well. But what why I stopped doing them like several years ago was because it was like this idea of like, you know, body positivity needs to be about centering the most marginalized bodies and like, as a straight size person, like me, like highlighting that narrative around my body, like doesn't really do anything for the birther movement, right. So like my own personal like, awareness around that made me realize like, oh, shit, like, I don't want to do that anymore.

And it was still putting the value in my body, it was still putting, like, you know, the identity and my value in how in how I looked, and I didn't want that to be the thing that like I was known for I wanted it to be, you know, the the skills that I had, and the, you know, the perspectives that I had around around this topic. So I it was like, I think it was probably at least five years ago now that I like announced it on social media, like I will not be doing these pictures anymore. And here's what I've learned. And here's why. And

26:37

yeah, yeah. And I wonder as well, how many people who are new to the idea of body positivity? See in the before picture of the smaller bodied person? Oh, yeah, I'd like to look like that. And then they see the after of someone who has it who is a higher way? And they're like, Fuck no, if that means that if I need to learn to, you know, stop dieting and accept myself, it means I'm going to gain weight. Well, I'm not gonna do it. And that's not always the outcome of intuitive eating or body acceptance. It's, it's a million different outcomes. Right? And so yeah, and I think as well, it would probably reinforce the message that accepting your body means that you, you know, that's something that it means you have to give up, quote, quote, unquote, give up having your current body and that's not always a reality. Yeah, it's complicated, right? It is complicated.

27:37

And the actually one thing that I really appreciated, somebody commented, when I posted the survey, which the results of my survey were 71% of people disliked those and 29% found them inspiring. And so one person wrote, which I think, captured the essence of like what we're saying really well, I used to like how it displayed joy that someone experiences in a larger body, however, that I feel like now I feel now that that can just be conveyed through the after, like, just by showing like, yes, your body, like, you know, just having joy in your body instead of that narrative of like, associating it with like a particular size change or anything like that.

28:20

It's almost a language that we have learned to speak of, of body comparison. Even though we're out a diet culture, we still wanna do the body comparison shots, like we can't, we can't help it. No, because it's just such a language that we speak of. Yeah, consuming, consuming people's bodies. And my people said, when I said what do you think of body positive before and afters that show weight gain 36% said they love and 64% said that they hate and the comments were, either way they are conveying that there is a right or wrong way for a body to look.

And it just feels like the same narrative that your body size is the most important thing. And the cultural idea of the before and after is still harmful. Yeah, so all of this stuff that we're saying. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say I think there's a difference between someone who lived there before is they were living in a in a bigger body and thereafter is that living in a bigger bigger body versus someone who is straight sized showing us still another straight size slightly bigger, straight sized body I think that there's a difference in harm created there between Oh, look at me now. I'm so fat when they're still straight sized. Because then someone like me, and we'll see, you know, a fat person might see that straight size body and be like, oh, yeah, look at you accepting that hideous body really? I've never had a body like that, like really? What would you think of my body? If you think that you're accepting this, you're like a charity worker accepting that hideous body that you have, but clearly you have a normative, you know, societal socially acceptable body you know?

30:17

That's exactly what I was gonna say I feel like in a lot of cases are still some dysmorphia going on because it's like someone who's like a size two going to a size four or something and they're like, Yeah, you know, and and and that's not to judge them at all like that's not to judge people experiencing that because that you know, I get that like, you can experience those levels of shame and whatnot, but from taking like, yeah, the outsider's perspective or thinking about like, What would someone who is who is fat? Feel like how do they feel? You know, how would they feel? Seeing this, I think is really it's a it's a really important consideration because yeah, it's like, yeah, exactly. To your point.

31:01

Yeah. Yeah. It's like that that show I never really watched it. But this is us with Chrissy Metz. Did you? Did you ever watch that? I never watched it. No, it's a lot of there's a lot of fatphobia in it. So. But I watched it, I watched like, maybe the first season anyway, they go to a diet club, and it's lots of fat people. And then there's like one thin person who's like, Oh, my God, my, I'm so ugly. And everyone, you know, the fat people are having to comfort her and be like, No, you're pretty, but then it's just like, kind of feels like that. And, and that kind of segues into the thing that actually gets on my tips. I can, and like, where I'm like, Oh, I really wish that people wouldn't do this like, because it's it's very, very harmful. And that is when influencers it's it's almost it always influences twists them themselves into like pretzels, they bend themselves over 100 times to try and get a tiny little stomach roll, which is normally just their skin.

And they post that picture saying, oh my god, hashtag I'm so brave for going out with this. You know, I've learned to love and accept my body even though that I you know, look at that this this, this role, but that is here. And also the pictures where it's like, Oh, look how bloated, I was at 2pm. And then oh, look at 8pm I have no my stomach is so flat. Oh, it's only because I have a uterus. And so if you have if you're if you're if you're fat, don't worry. It's probably only because you have a uterus. You're not actually fat. Lol, you know? Just like, stop that now.

32:47

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. There's I don't see those pictures anymore. Thankfully, like, but I when I did, I did a bit of research for a podcast episode I did recently where I looked up the hashtags. Like I went and searched hashtags like body positivity and stuff like that. And yeah, I definitely still found like, like some a lot of some of the stuff. Yeah, they're actually yeah, no, it it made me really enraged. But I don't I don't like I yeah, I don't really follow that stuff anymore. Because, I mean, well, I've just i, i Yeah, it never really resonated with me much anyways, because I could see that you don't actually have a role if you have to treat it. Like if you have to bend over Are you have to like squeeze your side to create cellulite and say like, you should love your cellulite. It's like that's not but it keeps the focus on the body, which is my problem with the whole, like, mainstream body positivity thing anyways, but, but like, I mean, if you like that stuff, you like it? And it kind of this all sort of reminded me of like, do you remember the the body image movement, like the woman from the body image movement from us? Yeah.

And like, the reason why like she became so popular was because she had that viral photo of like, a before a reverse before and after, like one of them was from when her she was doing her, like weight competition like bodybuilding competition days, and then one after when she wasn't. And like, it was like, the like, it went viral. It was like news, like, viewed like millions and millions of times. And it's just so funny how I feel like maybe the times have changed since then. But it's just so funny how at that time, like because she was still straight sized. That it's like, Oh, my God, like straight size woman like accepts her body and it's like, in like, news outlets.

34:45

Yeah. Firing and yeah,

34:49

but it just speaks to how messed up the culture is because it's like, that is like so newsworthy. You know what I mean? Like, like, yeah,

34:57

she was fat. There's no way in hell anyone any news coverage because or if the news coverage was it'd be like look at this person who used to be so healthy and now look she was really let ourselves go and and so that would only work if you still had a thin body but a little bit chubby here and there in the right places, you know, because we have to have like an hourglass figure. Right? And yeah, and I yeah that I never that's so true. Yes. Her movie came to Vancouver, didn't it? Yeah. Yeah. No, I did. I did.

35:38

I saw that home. So I definitely didn't watch him. I think I was away or something. Because I remember I was gonna go with you and yah, yah.

35:47

Yah, yah. Yah. Yah. Yah. Yah, yah. Yah, but that is so true. And at that time, I didn't I didn't pick up on that. I didn't pick up on that. Yeah, I did.

35:58

Mm hmm. And I know someone I know someone out. Like, I know, there's another person that a similar thing, like, and they went viral. And it was like, got a book deal and like, all this stuff. And they were like, maybe a size six or something like maybe it's like a woman embraces her body. It's like, Yeah, but I say what? Like, not like, I'm judging the person. That's not what I mean. It's, it's like, like, it's like, come on, like, that's newsworthy, like police. Like, like, the tide needs to be shifted so much more.

36:32

Yeah. Like people wouldn't. That's all that society at the moment can take, right? Like, the straight size person who is not, you know, buff, excepting themselves. So that's like a good news story. But anything more that would be seen as dangerous, because we're encouraging people to be gluttons, and whatever else people think that fatness represents, so I can kind of get it you know, why the mere media does that?

37:02

Yeah. Well, if you think about the influencers, like with the most followers, they typically still really meet Eurocentric beauty standards. Like pretty faces, like why like a lot of blonde hair, you know, kind of skew like, a little bit younger. And then and just have, like, you know, like, still a straight size body, but more like not like the, you know, stick then or musculature like ideal that you would see that, like you'd kind of typically think of when you think of the thin ideal. So it's a Yeah, but it's interesting when you start critiquing that stuff, and you realize, like, like, are we really changing the culture here? Or are we just like, kind of upholding the same thing, but like, with 10 extra pounds, 20 extra pounds.

And I think that's like, you know, the more that you sort of get into this, and the more that you kind of build that like, you know, cultural awareness, the more that you start to see that, that it's just kind of the same old thing, but just packaged in a slightly different way. And again, it's like nothing against those people. I know, they make a big difference in people's lives and whatnot. But yeah, and I think it's like how you curate your own feed to like, I tend to follow people who are, like, have more of a social justice message as opposed to like, love your body.

38:20

Yeah. And it's, and I think about, you know, I'm always on the fence about this, because I always, you know, we need people who do the light and fluffy stuff, right, we need people who are doing the more, quote unquote, palatable stuff, because, I mean, if it wasn't for those types of people, I probably wouldn't be here. Because if I had seen people who had really made me have to think deeply about fat phobia, I would have been scared off and being like, Oh, I don't want to be like fat and horrible like them, you know, I would have run off and continue to dieting. And so I think we, we need those people, but then also the fact that we need them actively harms more marginalized fat people, because if we're centering smaller people, white people, able bodied people, etc, etc. It means that the spotlight is naturally not on the people who are in the greatest need of justice, and resources and all that type of stuff.

And so it's like, I'm always struggling with it or being like, we need it but it's really harmful. We don't you know, and so I think those types of people if they are able to recognize that and be like, Okay, right, you know, I just have this body and this is it, you know, whatever. Let's bring on you know, more diversity in my feed and let's let's use my platform and my influence for to help people with more marginalized identities and myself that would be that'd be amazing and make me happy.

39:58

Yes, yeah, I totally I understand see that? Yeah, like, you need the gateway. Like you need the gateway. body positivity because you're right. And I'm sure like, I'm trying to think back of my first kind of, you know, entry into that space. Like it probably was like someone like the body image movement woman who I can't remember, I think Terran Terran. rumfitt? Yeah. So, like it probably what because, you know, it was like, okay, like it was like, safe. And then, and then you start to kind of like, hopefully people sort of start to move along the spectrum and start to like, see the, you know, the real, like, social justice piece of it, and start to follow other people who are speaking more to the politic, political side of it. And yeah, how to actually, you know, advocate. Yeah, and make change culture,

40:53

even saying that it's like, but then also, the more fluffy stuff is making a change, because it's kind of slowly moving things along. But then again, exactly what I just said, it's also harming free will, I will? I don't know. It's not

41:09

it's there's not a clean answer. Right. Yeah. Some people will argue that, like, we shouldn't be showing bodies, but it's like, but I think we need that too. Because otherwise, otherwise, like the mainstream media controls the bodies that you see. So you need people who are also showing their body like yeah, it's not. It's nuanced. And I think it's like, it's not, there's no, no one knows of one like, right way to look at things, I think, and I think that people benefit from different things in their own journey. And yeah, find what works for you and hopefully, eventually get to one of us, you know.

41:47

And I really appreciate like the P the dieticians that I work with, or are exclusively thin people. And I appreciate so much when they bring me in as a fat person. It's because because it's kind of like with their body. They're vouching for me, right, because like that audience probably couldn't stomach a fat person, maybe where are their awesome, obviously lots of occurred, but some of them maybe wouldn't navigate or you know, towards me, but they're using their their body almost as a kind of vouching for me. And now I think that's an awesome, cool thing. I really appreciate it. And it's the right thing to do.

42:27

Yeah, yeah. No, there's definitely good, good people out there. So. All right, so, station. Anything else? I feel like we talked about everything we want to talk about.

42:39

No, you know what I really like talking to you. I really like having a little episodes. So where can people find you?

42:47

They can find me at the body image coach calm. And my podcast is called Eat the rolls. And I'm at Summer in an inn on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. What about

42:59

snoop? Sorry, I don't I'm interrupting you. Like at the end of the sentence. I'm like, have you seen this new but I think you like it. Laziness. It does not exist. The book, Dr. Devin price Yeah,

43:13

I heard I have heard of it. I think Matt McCormick Gauri posted it. Like, go on. I remember bookmarking it. But I haven't read it. No.

43:21

Yeah, I'm reading it right now. And just you know, you know, it's solely to do with rules. And it's totally aligned with diet culture. And Dr. Devin price is fat positive and all that. Yeah. Anyways, it's really good.

43:35

Yeah, I've had a couple people told me that they really enjoyed it too, so I'll have to check it out. Yeah.

43:39

So where to find me is first fatty.com on Instagram first fatty podcast first fatty. Book first fatty? Yeah. So first, fatty. My new name Vinnie Welsby. Yeah, well, thank you for hanging out with us today. Yeah. Chat summer.

44:00

Yeah, let us know what you think. And we'll be back for another episode soon.

44:06

Yeah, and couple of weeks. All right. So Yolanda thanks for listening to the episode and if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to fears fattier Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body, then go to phase fatty.com forward slash waitlist again, that is phase fatty.com. Forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first party Academy my signature program opens.