Episode 180 Transcript

Read the transcript alongside the audio.

You're listening to The Fierce Fatty Podcast, episode 180: Being On Reality TV Almost Killed Me. Let's do it.

Unknown Speaker 0:24

you remember that TV show? Bullseye. If you're British, you remember it. 100 AJ, that's today's episode 180. Show shownotes facebook.com forward slash 180. For links for the things I'm going to be talking about. Not that many links because it's, I'm talking about me. So four years ago, I was on a BBC documentary, quote unquote, documentary, reality TV. So in 2019, the program is called, Who are you calling fat? Who are you calling fat? So if you want to go and watch it, I don't know where you can. I, it's not safe for me to google it myself and find a link or whatever. But if you find it, whatever, just go watch it or not.

Unknown Speaker 1:32

Whatever. But anyway, so that's what we're talking about today. I spoken about it previously, kind of in episodes, but not really. I'm gonna be sharing a lot today, and I'm feeling really vulnerable. Oh. And the reason why I'm doing this now is that because in therapy and my therapy, the, the amount of times I keep going back to this frickin program, and how it still fucking me up after four years, and I'm just like, I'm so frustrated with it. I feel frustrated with my brain, like, God, just move on. It was four years ago. And you know what my therapist was like, well, it goes to show how traumatizing it was for you. Right? And I was like, yeah. Yeah, because I wasn't really traumatized from it, then, four years later, I still wouldn't be you know, having dreams about it and having bad dreams about it and ruminating on it and, and whatnot. Anyway, and so what what we kind of came down to is that I'm feeling a shit ton of shame. And you know, what happens with shame. Shame is kind of secretive it it keeps you not connected to community.

Unknown Speaker 3:03

And shame cannot survive the light. I think that's a Brene Brown, quote, shame cannot survive the light. So I thought I, you know, I'm going to talk about it today, in talk about the things that are so painful for me that, up until this week, I couldn't even touch I couldn't look at. I have recordings from myself talking about the experience around that time. And even just knowing that they exist, where I'm talking about my feelings from that time is so painful. I couldn't look at it. But that's what I've been doing the last couple of weeks is looking at this stuff and kind of, you know, doing it in a way that's safe for me like this is not too much for me. It's not like I'm going to spiral into something. But it's also helping me share it with you. So thank you for being my therapy with me today.

Unknown Speaker 4:00

I'm going to tell you the inner workings of a reality TV show what goes behind the filming what's in the contract, how much I got paid the aftermath, did it make my business explode, what happened? Etc, etc. So huge here on trigger trigger warning for today's episode, because we're talking about some big stuff, some really kind of difficult emotions, also. suicide ideation. I'm going to tell you specifically when I get I'm going to play you a clip from me talking about my suicide ideation. And I'm going to tell you to skip forward a certain amount. If you don't want to hear, you know, me describing what my brain is saying to me. So if you want to listen to the episode and just skip over that bit, then I'll let you know when it's coming up. But if you feel like you're not in a good headspace, and talking about shame and despair, and suicide ideation is not good for you is not going to be helpful. It's going to be dangerous. Please skip this episode, and we'll see you in the next episode. Please take care of yourself. But again, I will warn you when this stuff comes up if you want to skip it, or you can just listen if it feels like it, you know, it feels good for you.

Unknown Speaker 5:27

So, yeah, and if you are having those types of thoughts of suicide ideation, then please reach out to someone. Even if you just Google. If you just Google suicide, immediately a number will come up and you can call them or just tell someone in your life. Okay, so the program was seen by 2.4 million viewers it was it was a two part program, a two part documentary, and a description of the program. I am looking at my neighbor's dog called Bella and she's she's running around playing with Teddy's thanks for being light hearted Bella. And when they steal these dog stuff, we're talking about Bella's, like prancing around with a teddy bear. Also, she loves humping anything.

Unknown Speaker 6:17

She loves having a good old wank. Many, many times a day. I mean, we should all really just, you know, just go around ranking and stuff. Yeah. Anyway, so a description of the program. This is written by the production company. This is a serious documentary project bring an eight to nine people to live together in a house in Oxfordshire in 2019. All the participants are people who are a word living with Oh word who or who self identify as fat. They will have various and sometimes conflicting opinions about a range of issues affecting their own bodies and how Oh word Oh, Word and fat people are viewed by society. As a group live together, they will discuss a wide range of subjects affecting how people living with affect people, affecting people living with extra weight, they will also take part in a number of activities both inside and outside the house, meaning suggested by themselves, that will shed light additional light on the subject. This is not a weight loss program. Instead, it aims to give a voice to a section of society that is often discussed but rarely heard. Okay, so if you heard that you would probably be like, Oh, this sounds interesting. They have people in there who identify as fat. So that's kind of cool. And also people who are identify as Oh, word wishes, that's less cool. But, you know, there might be some fun things in them. So before we get into, like, what exactly happened, how they approached me all that type of stuff, I want to start with understanding about the issues with reality TV and suicide. So I'm going to be reading an article here from The Guardian. By Yomi adegoke Key, why suicide is still the shadow that hangs over reality TV. So this article is from 2020. And since then, we've had more suicides from reality TV.

Unknown Speaker 8:13

So the things that they're talking about here, it's you know, even more has happened so okay, for several years, linking the link in the bio in the show notes in the show notes rather. For several years, the suicide of contestants who compete on reality TV shows has cast a dark shadow on the genre. Competitors of The Bachelor Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, the voice and Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares have all taken their own lives. And just days ago, the suicide of Hannah Kim Kim Euro, a 22 year old former cast member of the on the Netflix Japanese reality TV series series, Tara's house shocked fans. Kimura had suffered a huge amount of harassment and abuse online. Inevitably, focus will shift on to how much support the contestants on The shows are offered by producers to deal with the negative attention that follow their appearances. Many hope her passing will serve as a painful Eye Opener a teachable moment. Even though this is a lesson we should have learned many times over. This is something that has happened before and if little changes is likely to happen again.

Unknown Speaker 9:22

According to one newspaper report last year, there have been 38 deaths by suicide of reality TV contestants, one of the most harrowing cases was of an 11 year old star Neha Sawant, who killed herself following her appearance on the Indian dance competition Boogie Woogie. The story was published before one of the most high profile deaths had occurred. The tragic death of love Island presenter Caroline Flack earlier this year, which has become the catalyst for the current conversation on mental health and reality television

Unknown Speaker 10:00

Aside from the lives tragically lost, there are many contestants who go on to suffer a roof and revocable damage to their mental health. ex lover Islander, Alex Miller revealed that he had felt suicidal after leaving the show. Big brother 10 Contestant three, Desiree was rushed to hospital after he was evicted from the house to booze and had self harmed. Eerily. This was nearly identical to what happened to a previous winner, Nadia Almada after she returned to the show for the Ultimate Big Brother series, and was hospitalized less than a week afterwards. Oh, Nadia was a one that was saying about the lady garden woman. I was naughty what she was the trans one. Anyway, I'll google that on my own time. This is by no means a new issue issue. Rather it is one who has been largely ignored. The suffering of contestants has been brushed aside due in part to a snide type of victim blaming that is specific to reality TV. A persistent public view remains that those who are cast in these programs are quote, fair game. Any vicious or abusive befalls them in the aftermath is their fault by virtue of having opted to take part it has meant that the duty of care that is owed by the shows to those who take part has been overlooked. The aftercare on several shows appears to be non existent, and the psychiatric evaluations that take place ahead of casting have been widely criticized. Even the deaths of love Island contestants might make phallus eaters 26 and 2019. And Sophie gradam 32 in 2018. did not drive home how persistent a problem this problem is. The this is it took the apparent suicide of Jeremy Kyle guest Jeremy Kyle is a British talk so kind of like Jerry Springer,

Unknown Speaker 11:51

where they do DNA tests and stuff. It took the apparent suicide of Jeremy cargas Steve diamond, who had failed a lie detector test on the show lie detector tests are bullshit by the way to prompt the long overdue government inquiry on the link between reality TV shows and suicide just as cameras death has led to Japanese government officials calling for action against cyber bullying. Diamonds death resulted in The Jeremy Kyle show being taken off the air a decision that please many as it confused love Island is still a feature on our screens. Despite three deaths out of 100 or so contestants in the space of three years, three deaths in three years on love Island.

Unknown Speaker 12:30

In the wake of this ITV announced new duty of care diet guidelines which out outline that that contestants will be provided with psychological consultation throughout the series and will receive proactive contact from show representatives for 14 months after leaving the series. Well, what you'll hear about this proactive contact from the show is not was not helpful for me and the psychologist was harmful to me. So these guidelines and not helpful.

Unknown Speaker 13:04

It also offered bespoke training on dealing with social media and advice on financial finance, finance and adjusting to life back home. Less than a year after the new guidelines were published. Flack had taken her own life. It is too simplistic to condemn this issue as a love Island problem, a Jeremy Kyle problem or a terrace house problem. The banning of one particularly hateful or hyper visible show does not rid us of the societal Scout Scout urges, scourges that may continue to these untimely contribute to these untimely deaths such as a culture of bullying online, and the lack of accessibility to mental health services. They're missing something really important. They're the behavior of a production companies. Abolishing the genre altogether, we will not end self harming young people it is impossible and wrong to attribute suicide to a single event in people's lives. But it is impossible to ignore how the fame that reality TV provides.

Unknown Speaker 13:57

Ignore how the fame that reality TV provides combined with a lack of crucial care for those involved makes a possibly dangerous situation potentially deadly. Although some programs are taking steps to better safeguard contestants, producers cannot wait until the next strategy to make much needed changes. That was from The Guardian. Yeah, so this is not just something that happened to me this has happened to many people. And obviously we hear about the people who

Unknown Speaker 14:25

successfully die by suicide successfully as in they managed to complete what they were doing.

Unknown Speaker 14:34

And we don't hear about the many others who get close to it. So if three people have died, what percentage of those people other people have have been suffering as well? So how this happened in April 2019 I got an email from a production company. So what happens is the BBC whoever they will pay a production company that

Unknown Speaker 15:00

is a separate entity to make a program, either they pay for it or the production company, make it and then sell it to whoever So, or I'm sure there's other things that like that happen. But you know other ways it happens, but in this case a BBC have,

Unknown Speaker 15:16

have have paid them paying them already. So this production company, email me, they sent a really good email they had researched me, they were using the correct language.

Unknown Speaker 15:30

They told me about what they had done before, they were an award winning

Unknown Speaker 15:36

production company with a beloved TV show, but loved across a world

Unknown Speaker 15:43

that they had created. And so my expectations were really high. My expectations as well, because it's it was created by the BBC. Even higher, right? The BBC, it's not going to be in my mind this trashy kind of, you know, Jeremy cow type of thing. And the fact that they were, they were talking about using reasoning and the correct language, and they were like, we're really interested in you.

Unknown Speaker 16:10

And so we had a chat on the, on the phone with them. And then I had a chat over Skype. And then I talked to another producer, producer, and they were just loving it, they were just like, Yes, this is amazing. This is so needed, like, you know, this is what people need to hear. And you will your message is so impactful. Or they were just really big me up and just making me feel like, Oh, they're really into this. They're going to show the, you know, the dissenters in regards to the people who hate that people who are going to be on the show.

Unknown Speaker 16:47

But really, they're liberal minded, they're forward thinking they think that fat liberation is a good thing. This is the the, the feeling that I got, right. So they then that was April 2019. And they asked if I was going to be available in June, which is when they were planning on filming. So in May, I was shortlisted, they said we were shortlisted confirm the dates of filming. And then I signed paperwork and gave them my ID and all that type of stuff. They also told me that I needed to meet with a therapist, for a quote, Psych test, to chat through filming, and the overall experience a psych test. All right, they've built this up this incredible award winning production company who are working with the BBC, we just need you to talk to this therapist for a test. Okay, so with that language, what do you think people are going to be going into that test with? Are they going to be disclosing all sorts of things to that therapist? Or are they going to be saying things that gets them on to the show? Me, I was just totally honest, I, you know, told her told her my history,

Unknown Speaker 18:12

you know, told her that

Unknown Speaker 18:16

everything that you know about me about my history, with, with abuse, with being homeless, with hating myself with PTSD with

Unknown Speaker 18:26

etc, etc, right. But at that, at that, at that time, had been in therapy for years. And I was a very stable person with access to mental health resources in my, in my therapist, right. So I was confident that, you know, I might have had a past of, you know, shit stuff in my life. But, you know, I was, I was resilient. So that was my take, but I wonder how many other people that who go to this psych test, like, oh, no, no, I've never struggled with anything. And they're actually like, currently suicidal or whatever.

Unknown Speaker 19:01

So this therapist specializes in talking to production companies about mental health. So a quote from from this therapist website, I have an in depth understanding of the needs of the program makers and the pressures of working or repairing in programs or films, the needs of the program makers. So she's basically on the side of the production company. I aim to respond rapidly, rapidly, and with observations and insights that contribute to a successful production. I'm fully engaged fully in helping to drive forward an area that is essential to responsible program making. Okay, so she is saying on our website about you know, we need to be we need to meet there's guidelines that they have to follow right and so, this person is working for the production company, they are not working for the contributors or

Unknown Speaker 20:00

contestants have a show. Right? They're not.

Unknown Speaker 20:06

They're not your person unit, they're not on your side, right? They're there as a service to the production company. So I quote, pass the test, or whatever the language was, I got an A star. And then we had more calls, then

Unknown Speaker 20:25

in June, so we've So April, May, June, so for two months, and this is intense, right? This is back and forth with so much. So in June, the producer flew from London to Ireland. So I'm in Ireland at this point, living with my mum, so I'd gone to Ireland. At that point, like six months earlier, I was planning on staying for six months, this came up and I was like, ah, you know, I'll just hang around for a little longer hang. And so the program comes out in November in 2019. What then happens

Unknown Speaker 21:00

2020 20 And everything closes down. And so then I'm stuck in Ireland for another year. and Ireland, it's nice to you know, just go and stay with my mum I at that point I hadn't hadn't lived with with my mum since I was 16 years old. So it was like a nice experience to

Unknown Speaker 21:18

live with my mum for a bit. And she lives in a nice place in rural Ireland. But it was rural Ireland. And it was very isolating. I didn't have I normally live in Vancouver, Canada, I didn't have my normal support network around me. And even though I could talk to friends on the phone, it's not the same rate. It's not the same. And the same freedoms of being in Vancouver where I walk out my door, and immediately I'm in community and have access to all sorts of things. So anyway, so producer came to dairy, and we had lunch.

Unknown Speaker 21:53

And then that afternoon, I was confirmed to be on the show. So I guess she flew to dairy, to have lunch with me as a kind of like, Is this a real person? Like, you know, I don't know. Just test it. You know, one more thing like, am I a human.

Unknown Speaker 22:08

And all of these people I'm talking to got on with great, really great conversations really interesting. Next, I asked my my doctor to sign off on my health status. It's called a statement of health. I told my doctor wasn't my doctor, it was just a doctor at the health clinic that I was that was near my mom's house, they'd never met me before. I said, I just need you to sign this thing to say that you're okay with me going on the show. The doctor was like, I've got to be honest, reality TV, I've seen people come back and it's really affected them. And I was like, Oh, well, that's not going to be me. I'm really resilient. I'm in therapy has been for years. I know what to expect. And what I expect is that general public is going to be really fat phobic. But that's okay. Because the people who need to hear my message, they'll hear it. And that will do good in the world. Right? I've dealt with trolls online for years at this point. And he said to you Sure. And I was like, What does he know?

Unknown Speaker 23:08

This, you know, this, he was an old guy in rural Ireland. How would he know about what it's like to be on, you know, to have a social media following and, and go on TV show? Well, obviously, he must have had seen a couple of people. In his surgery where this has happened.

Unknown Speaker 23:27

Even though, you know, someone could have come to me and said, I went on a reality TV show, and it was terrible for me, I would have been like, wow, you're probably a decade. You know, I'm a nice person. I'm a good person. You know, I don't like that black and white thinking of good and bad. But you know,

Unknown Speaker 23:45

I know that I'm not going to do anything that is is going to harm me, you know.

Unknown Speaker 23:51

So anyway, the DGP sale, signs up.

Unknown Speaker 23:56

Then a film crew comes to my mom's house and they do backstory filming. So they fill me in your home and they filmed me

Unknown Speaker 24:05

on the beach with my dog and they filmed me talking to clients. They filmed me at the local leisure Center, I'd go to aqua aerobics with all the old ladies. It was really fun.

Unknown Speaker 24:18

And they were just fucking loving it. They were just like, oh my god, a TV crew. Oh, you're gonna be a celebrity. And I was like, Oh, wow. You know, think it was funny. Then I had to do genetic testing. You're like, what the fuck genetic testing. It was a part of a bit that they were going to do. It's not that they needed to do genetic testing on me but they were going to do they were they had a doctor come in who were saying that fatness is not fatness is more complex than what we think and that people have genes that predispose them to fat there. So I went and did this genetic testing.

Unknown Speaker 24:52

Really short notice, blah, blah, blah and managed to get it to them on time. I signed the contract and now we have

Unknown Speaker 25:00

have an official contract, I'm going to tell you what was in the contract shortly.

Unknown Speaker 25:06

They also asked family or friend friends to join on the last day of filming to have like a knees up on the last day kind of come together and see what the family think. My family, my immediate family didn't want to do it. And so then I asked my aunt and uncle and one of my cousins, and they came because they live near

Unknown Speaker 25:27

more calls for production. They audited my social media, so they went through everything I've ever posted to see if there's anything, you know, see if I'm a secret, you know, beggar or something, there's something on there that was going to be terrible for them.

Unknown Speaker 25:43

And also, they looked to see if there was anything where people could identify my location. And so that was the only thing that they found was a couple of posts where someone could maybe look in the background and find out where I was, which was I talking to this person who does does that audit, I was just flabbergasted. They were like, Yeah, someone could see a pole in the sky was with some trees and see that identifying piece of information and then find out where you live. And I was just like, oh, so I don't know if you've ever noticed I don't really post much on social media about my personal life. You know, post I don't like if I go to an event, I only post afterwards I don't post before. Because I have a thing about you know, I think about safety because I know other fat liberationists have been in danger before.

Unknown Speaker 26:35

Like people following them and follow them around a supermarket looking at what's in their cart and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so in the contract, basically, you were going to be at the location and they are we are entitled to film you at any time of the day or night. You're you are not allowed to film, you are not allowed to have your phone. You are you have to immerse your you're required to immerse yourself fully in the experience. You are not allowed to talk to anyone about the show your use the petition may or may You not You're not allowed to disclose to the general public, any information about about you about the filming you they say that we're going to arrange for you to view the program before it goes out, and shall consider in good faith. Any comments you have about the program, which you believe is factually inaccurate. Also, I'm not allowed to participate in any programs similar to the program for one year. I'm not allowed to be on any other program without their written without their consent, their approval. They own the rights throughout the universe. It's so funny, they use the word universe, I guess well wasn't enough, you know, just in case we go to Mars, you know, they own the rights in the universe for ever. And I will not make money from the program.

Unknown Speaker 28:06

I'm not allowed to talk to talk about the production company or the show ever without their permission to any person or company or to the public in any media whatsoever. And you can be terminated at any time. So how much money did I get for all of this agreeing to that contract and all of the legwork beforehand and then 10 days of filming flying to the UK, doing this whole thing being a contributor. I got the ground some of 00 pounds $0 Nothing. Because they say Well, it's the BBC and the BBC doesn't pay

Unknown Speaker 28:51

because that would be unethical

Unknown Speaker 28:54

to ever go.

Unknown Speaker 28:56

Because it would be so the actual filming.

Unknown Speaker 29:01

The night before we all stayed in different hotels. We like the contestants are contributors I called us contributors. And they were they were taken to the house. So I was a third one in the house after one. So the first person to arrive was a fat positive person. And then we had a guy who had done stomach amputation.

Unknown Speaker 29:22

And then this guy who'd done the summer cavitation and everyone thought was creepy and annoying. And then I came in and we happen to be also from the home same hometown.

Unknown Speaker 29:32

Anyway so that first day everyone arrived and we sat around the kitchen table table and filmed for hours. I just want you to like imagine one meeting new people just in a meeting eight new people meeting people that you know are fat phobic being filmed meeting those people being filmed having conversations about how they think that fatness is horrible

Unknown Speaker 30:00

Like the stress of being in a new place, staying in a hotel, then going to a new and finding, you know, then we went in to find our rooms, like, imagine like the stress levels, right? So it's like a high stress environment. And so when when you're like in a high stress environment, think of all the things that you do to go and relax, right? You go home, and, you know, go and watch some Netflix and be by yourself, whatever it is that you do to relax, but we had no way to really relax. This was 24/7 constant. We cannot you don't have that time away. Even though sometimes you feel like you just have to sit in having a relaxing conversation with someone. And then you're like, oh, yeah, I'm miked up, and oh, yeah, I see a camera like, being COVID. Over there filming us. Oh, yeah, this isn't private. So first off, you're really aware that you have a mic on and you're really aware that there's cameras there. It was weird, right? It was like, what? Why are you filming? Right? And there's loads of cameras, there's not just one camera, they have lots of different people. But soon enough, it became more normal. And it became like the people who were the camera operators and the people who were there are people there taking notes. And it just felt like they were friends, right? Because they just were like hanging out with you. And you'd go go to the bedroom, and they'd come into the bedroom with you. And I'm like, awesome. What do you think about so and so said that and you'll be like, oh, yeah, that was fucked up, or whatever. And so you just be hanging out with them and chatting? They would because they weren't able to. It wasn't like they were asking questions on camera themselves. You were reacting to the questions. And you had to say your statement, like they hadn't asked you a question. So if they were like, well, what do you think of ABC? You'd have to reply and be like, Well, what do you think of ABC is, so it could just be a standalone thing. And so when they when you were talking about things that they wanted to hear, they would behind the camera be nodding their head and being like, like, silently like, yeah, keep going, like, Yeah, we love this stuff. And so if you're like, Yeah, we think I think it's really important that fat people are treated well. And they're like, yeah, yeah, that's amazing. And so you felt safe talking to that person, because you you're like, I know that they agree with me, I know that they are hearing all of the fat phobic shit downstairs. And they're like, What the fuck? You know, this is what you know, that sense of safety that they're trying to create with you.

Unknown Speaker 32:22

So you're always filmed? They film you're brushing your teeth, and you're like, really? Well.

Unknown Speaker 32:28

Why do you need this footage? This is

Unknown Speaker 32:32

invasive and boring, but they gotta get it. They cannot be you know, they get in trouble if you manage to escape from them. I'm going to sneak away somewhere and they've not managed to follow you because there's nine people in the house right and, and this house was really big. It was like this mansion type thing. It's not a mansion, but it's like a really nice big house, you know, maybe like eight bedrooms or something. I'm not that many because we shared but anyway and a pool and it was nice. And so it was a big it was a big area for them. And they didn't have one camera operator per person.

Unknown Speaker 33:06

And they had camera people working 24 hours a day. So throughout the night, if we happen to get up and something happened, they were there. They would be knocking on the door in the morning saying Can we come in we need to start filming high stress environments no respite. Everyday we did an activity picked by one of the people in the house

Unknown Speaker 33:26

and the people who hated their fat bodies the activities were snow as well as the boring it was all just like shame you about having a fat body and how your sofa can disgusting. And then the fat people or in the fact that fat people who liked ourselves guess what we did fun things like we went to karaoke, we went out and had a buffet we are one of the guys got us all outfits and we did a fashion shoot. We did fattier Olympics where none of the people who hated themselves or hate fatness would play with us. And so all the happy fat people were just playing with me. We did stand for self love, which was going and blindfolding yourself standing in the city center with a bikini on or swimsuit, whatever. And then letting people right in your body. It's just you know, shame versus joy. Right. So, but saying that we had differing views, but we all got on, right? We were all everyone was very respectful of each other. We laugh we bonded. We bonded over the fact that there was one cast member who was a knob right we'd, it was it was like even the crew, the production crew would be looking at us and smiling when he'd go off or he'd go off and just like say all sorts of awful things, misogynistic and creepy things. And the you know, you'd be looking at the people around you and the crew would just be like smiling and laughing because this guy was so creepy. So I was you know, even at that I was saying to them, oh, we're not going to

Unknown Speaker 35:00

They're not gonna have a lot of material because you know, you want to see a fight. You want to see some scandal you want to see, you know, something, but we were like, well, they've got this one guy who is behaving terribly. thing is he wasn't behaving terribly about the topic of fatness he was just being creepy. He was just a creepy, weird guy. That was inappropriate, right? And even one of even like, the top production person came to me one time and she was like, someone around me like, can you believe what he's wearing? Because he was wearing the wearing a shirt with a picture of a sexual predator on it.

Unknown Speaker 35:37

She's like, I can't believe it's what? What does he think it you like? Like, yeah, he's, he's fucking weird. Anyway, so we were like, Oh, I wonder if this is even gonna be successful, because we'll go on, you know. And that was one kind of one falling out. One kind of

Unknown Speaker 36:01

one of the people got upset because I said, I had more privilege in my body. And because I have a smaller body than someone else. And she was like, Oh, she thought that I meant I was saying, I'm better looking. And she's like, How dare you say that you have privilege. And I was like, what? And so she left the table and started crying. Because she thought I was saying I'm really good looking because she didn't understand what privilege meant. Anyway, so that was the only thing and you know, what they did? Is they dubbed in

Unknown Speaker 36:31

she left the table. And you hear oh, no, don't leave. That was that was not my voice. They, they dumped it in. And they made a fake. They're fake. It was fake. And the other one was, so I cried twice during the production. So So you know, we got on with high stress, high stress. But there wasn't really that much drama. The only drama was so I shared a room with a fat positive person and someone who really, really hated themselves. And so anyway, one of the days we went dancing, which, you know, surprise, surprise was a an activity from a happy fat person.

Unknown Speaker 37:10

And Babs, her name was Babs the person who shared a room with I shared with Babs and I shared with Courtney Courtney, who was happy in fact,

Unknown Speaker 37:20

we went dancing, Babs really struggled because there was a mirror and she was crying. And she was like, this is traumatic for me. Anyway, so we got back to the house. I went and saw Courtney. I think Courtney Courtney wasn't there. Right. I think Courtney wasn't there because you had a sore leg or something. Anyway, so Courtney said I had to go and I said it was really fun. It was really hard for Babs, she was traumatized by it. She didn't have fun. But I was in the in the bathroom. And she heard me say Babs was really traumatized by it. She didn't have fun. And she took offense to this. I don't know why. But she did. You know, because she, she was even saying, this is this is traumatizing for me, and I'm really having fun. And she was crying and stuff. Anyway, so I came up. Later in the day, I came up and she was in the bedroom filming. And I was like, Hey, how's it go? And she's like, actually, you know, I'm really annoyed with you. And I said, Okay, why is that? And she said, Because you said I was traumatized by the

Unknown Speaker 38:20

by the dancing. And I was like, Oh, well, you were one you kind of thing. This is not word for word. This is you know, from what I'm remembering. Right?

Unknown Speaker 38:31

And she was like, Yeah, and I was like, I you know, I just really wish that I could.

Unknown Speaker 38:37

I was basically like, I'm really sorry that you feel bad in your body. And I wish that I could wave a magic wand and you not feel so ashamed of yourself. And she was like, I don't want you to wave a magic wand. I don't like being fat. I mean, I look at I look at Courtney, in you know, walking around, in in her bikini and I just think it's you know, it's really disgusting. And my husband, his body is disgusting. And I was like,

Unknown Speaker 39:04

Oh, my fucking in my brain. I was like, uh, you literally saying on camera, your husband, his body is disgusting. She's saying all sorts of other stuff, like mean stuff about both of them, saying how she's looking at Courtney's body and saying, you know, saying all these awful things. And I was like, you know, well, I don't know how the conversation ended. But anyway, the conversation ended. So then later that day, I was like, oh, I need to tell Courtney this that perhaps isn't safe. Because, you know, Courtney was just being happy and fun and thinking about was supporting her. But Babs was, you know, actually saying really mean things about her. And so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna find Courtney bend when the cameras aren't there. So I did. I found her outside putting up a happy birthday sign for someone. And I was like, Courtney.

Unknown Speaker 39:58

I've got to tell you that

Unknown Speaker 40:00

back to saying this and she was like what the fuck? Thank you so much for telling me I can't believe that. What we didn't know because the camera

Unknown Speaker 40:08

is a sneaky motherfuckers they were inside and and they had us on mic, but they were filming like through a window. And so they they caught me on camera telling her. So Courtney was didn't want to speak to Babs and

Unknown Speaker 40:23

and then Babs her reaction was, oh, well, Vinnie has told you this, therefore it's been his fault. And so Babs came downstairs flying downstairs, in front of everyone. We're just about to leave to go to karaoke, and was an threatened me and said something like, don't you ever talk about me ever again. And I was thinking, well, that's not gonna happen. We're on a TV show where we talk about each other. And so I was just like, okay, and just walked away. And I was like, walked into a different room. And then like, the two fat positive people came was like, What the fuck? What? What is what? Why would she say that to you? And you know, it was so awkward and, and so we went, it wasn't a comedy night we went to it was like a, we went to a comedy show. Karaoke, went to a comedy show. Anyway, later in the evening, I you know, I don't like the tension. So, you know, I spoke to Babs and I cried, and I was like, Oh, how bad was that? I was really, you know, I felt really upset about that. And she was like, Yeah, I fucked up. I'm really sorry. Whatever. Guess what? They didn't show that they did that show. Babs threatening me knew?

Unknown Speaker 41:30

Did they show me me crying? Nero. Hmm.

Unknown Speaker 41:36

Next, the other time I cried is, is

Unknown Speaker 41:39

we did what's called a master interview. So everyone does one.

Unknown Speaker 41:45

And it's at the end of your time filming. And what happens is you go into a room,

Unknown Speaker 41:51

we happen to be in like a pool room, it's very kind of tight quarters. And everything's set up and you sit in a chair, and you've got the light the lights on you. And you have to look directly into the camera, which has a series of mirrors, that would show you the eyes of the producer asking you questions.

Unknown Speaker 42:11

And so the master interview is basically to get everything that they haven't got so far, and to go over everything that they've already asked you so far, and it goes on for fucking ages. And so

Unknown Speaker 42:28

you have to constantly stare directly into the camera. Now when I talk, I like looking around. If you if you watch the podcast on YouTube, you'll notice that I hardly ever look into the camera because that's just not my style is you know, I like thinking and my look at my look around. Like most humans, you know, most humans is not I'm not going to be staring directly into the into a little light and a series of mirrors looking into one person's eyes, like a little square just looking into their eyes. While they ask you super invasive questions while they're trying and get a reaction from you.

Unknown Speaker 43:08

And get a kind of like a ha moment we got them. So you know, when you're watching a documentary or whatever this is when you know,

Unknown Speaker 43:16

they they've got a scammer. And the scammer has agreed to an interview and you know, the interview will start nice. And at the end, by the end, I confront them because they know that they're probably going to walk off. So that's what the master interview is about. Right? And so they were asking me really invasive, inappropriate questions. And I was level headed. And I was like, I'm not gonna walk off, I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of having me stand up and say and take my mic off. You know, that famous, the famous, you know, like, I'm leaving type of thing, because I didn't want them to have that kind of like, yeah, we've got them. We've got them. We showed them what we showed the world what they really like.

Unknown Speaker 43:54

And, you know, they were really needling me about really painful, tight times in my life. They asked me one question, which was Would you rather be disabled or non disabled? And I was like,

Unknown Speaker 44:07

I'm not asking that. I'm not answering that question. That's fucking fucked up. ableist question on what the hell? And they said, Come on, answer it. No, I'm not asked No. Come on, come on. Like it was. Bananas Come on, even when time the producer said still gonna ruin your career if you answer the question, like so manipulative. And then they were like, Okay, well, we'll go on to another subject. So tell us about your dad that's alcoholic, tell us about you know, how much money do you make? What's in your bank account? You know? And then what? So, answer that question. Eventually they get me to say, I'm not answering that question in a stern tone. This is after like, hours, literally hours, right.

Unknown Speaker 44:55

So when I finished that interview, I walked out of the pool house and burst into tears.

Unknown Speaker 45:00

It was exactly like my abusive ex years ago who would interrogate me. And there was nothing that I could say that would satiate their questions. And then they would twist my words and use them against me. And it was really inappropriate and cruel. And, you know, that's when like, the trust is broken with the production team, because you know what we did with this one guy? Because he was just, yeah, that's what it was so triggering for me, because I was like, That's exactly and if you've ever been in an abusive relationship, when that person just won't let you leave, it's just needling you, asking you questions asking you questions, and no matter what you say, they're not getting the reaction that they want. It's, it's really inappropriate. Okay, so that was a filming.

Unknown Speaker 45:47

We we left went home, oh, my goodness, I wonder what's going to be like, it's probably going to be good. I can't wait to see you know, when we see this one guy, kind of realizing that he's inappropriate. That's probably what's going to happen.

Unknown Speaker 46:01

So beginning of October, so we filmed in what did when did we film June?

Unknown Speaker 46:08

So beginning of October, they flew me to London to view the episodes. So I watched the episodes back to back where we, you know, we had a break, and we had over one, one day later, I said, can I talk to their therapist, I am going to play you recordings of me talking about what was happening at that time. Okay, so this, this, this is from October the ninth. So within a week, this is kind of like how I was feeling the show wasn't even out. By the way. By the way, by the way. Before we listen to this, this was before I had come out as non binary, trans non binary. And my name was Victoria. And I was using she her pronouns. And so if you hear Victoria and she her, that was because it was before.

Unknown Speaker 46:59

Before that, and also, all the clips, there's a couple of I think there's one or two times where I use an ableist word, CRA Z, Y,

Unknown Speaker 47:10

Z, look at me, I'm so North American Zed, y. And so there's, I think there's one or two, one instance of that, and I, yeah, so heads up on that, for that ableism from me, these videos were never recorded, thinking that no one would ever see them. So this was not I this is not meant to be for anyone.

Unknown Speaker 47:33

This is private, right? But I'm sharing it with you. So I'm feeling so much shame. I'm feeling so much shame. Anyway. Okay, so this is my reaction. After seeing the show in London. I went to London last week to see the TV show. And I had a lot of feelings. I've been going through like a roller coaster of emotion. When I saw it. I wrote down lots of notes and stuff. And

Unknown Speaker 48:00

I was like,

Unknown Speaker 48:02

I kind of come across as villainous. Like, I'm the I'm the villain in this. And they're like, no, no, you're not not the villain. And,

Unknown Speaker 48:15

but there was good things like at the end of like watching the both of the two episodes and like chatting with one of the producers. I was I wrote down a note to remind myself about how I was feeling then and I was feeling like, this is a good program, it's going to make people laugh, it's going to make people cry. And it's going to have a positive impact for fat, the fat community. And, and then in the watts, we have a WhatsApp group with all the other contributors, which is what we call the people who are in it. And

Unknown Speaker 48:49

one, so I was the second to see the girl that saw it first. She was like, yeah, no one looks bad or anything, you know, it's fine. And then I spoke to I called up another person. And I was like, I think I'm the villain in this. And she she was like, yeah, the person who sort of first text me privately and said, Victoria is the villain in this, but she didn't tell me. And I was like, I thought I was the villain. And then

Unknown Speaker 49:19

someone the people who were anti fat, they didn't really say much about me being the villain. They'll probably like yeah, of course you are. And then

Unknown Speaker 49:28

the

Unknown Speaker 49:31

the other pro fat person, he's like, Yeah, you're a villain. You're a villain in it, but you've got redeeming qualities. You can see the redeeming qualities. And then the final pro fat person saw it and she was like, No, you're not a villain at all.

Unknown Speaker 49:46

You're just fabulous and stuff. And anyway, so in the meantime, like the day after, and then like send it letting it marinate and then I have like a nightmare about

Unknown Speaker 49:59

something

Unknown Speaker 50:00

has to do with

Unknown Speaker 50:02

I can't remember was but something. Honestly, it wasn't that traumatic, like bad consequences of all this. So I emailed, I emailed the producers already said, I want you to take out a couple of lines that I didn't like, but I, because they, they everything's out of context, right. And so you don't know, you don't have any backstory to anything. So I asked him to take out a couple of lines that I felt uncomfortable about, and they did. And then I asked them to

Unknown Speaker 50:30

accurately portray a scene, which they'd really like.

Unknown Speaker 50:36

Not they. So there's a scene where this guy comes in, he has diabetes. And

Unknown Speaker 50:43

so

Unknown Speaker 50:44

one of the other contributors says, Oh, we've got a guy coming in to talk to us about diabetes, and how, you know, we're all gonna get diabetes. He didn't say that, but that's what we inferred. And one girl like, ran off crying, because she was like, Oh, this is this is all I've got in my whole life is that I'm gonna get diabetes, and I'm not comfortable with this. And the other fat people were like, the pro fat people were like, we're not sure about this, is he going to be really Shamy. And I was like, Listen, I need to protect my mental health. And so if he's going to be really shame me and

Unknown Speaker 51:17

food moralizing, then I don't necessarily want to hear that. And so we said, Okay, we'll come and one of the girls didn't come, will come for as long as he's not shaming. And so we go, and then we sit for probably about half an hour listening to his story. He had diabetes that he ignored for 20 years. And because he ignored it, he had to have his leg amputated. And so, and then he starts saying, you know, fat people, we just love it, and the cakes and the pies. And all we do is we eat chips and all this stuff. And then after a little bit of that I said, Thank you so much, Colin, for sharing your story with us, I'm just going to step out. So what you see is,

Unknown Speaker 52:01

you see Colin coming in, and, you know, this is a diabetic guy. You see Colin coming in. And then the show is 50% me, even though there's like nine people in the house is, is really focused on me. And then you see Colin saying his story. And what you can't see is that Colin is like, sir, like this, and so I have to have my head turned like this. And to see him, and it looks like I'm like, you know, can't be bothered to listen to him. And I'm like, really bored. And, you know, fuck this guy. And then they, and so he's like, oh, you know, telling his story. And it's very, you know, touching and stuff like that. And then it's shots to me of being like, you know, and then they get a shot of me rolling my eyes. And I think I probably rolled my eyes, obviously, I roll my eyes at the bit where he was talking about food. And it's that, you know, cuts to him being like, you know, and it's hard having diabetes, and it cuts to me being like,

Unknown Speaker 53:01

what like this, and I'm like, that's not accurate. And then he's talking about something else. Nice, you know, not offensive, and then I leave. And anyway, I'm like,

Unknown Speaker 53:13

this isn't true. Like you have this same encounter in us. But there's standards that journalists have to adhere to, when reporting that it has to be factual. And it can't just be made up, like, you know, how reality shows or just couldn't do things. And I was like, this is like, really not accurate at all. And then I Oh, well, we'll look at it.

Unknown Speaker 53:39

So I went from like, Oh, my God, I'm the villain to maybe I'm not the villain to maybe I look good, too. They've changed some things. I feel better, too.

Unknown Speaker 53:52

Now, I'm a bit where I'm, they they've changed. They've changed things. I don't know what they've done. But they've They said they've edited the scene properly, and they've taken away a lot of the cutaways of my face. And I'm like, good Yeah, cuz Why is it all on me? Why there's no reactions from the other fat people who also were not happy with his shaming.

Unknown Speaker 54:16

And yeah, they make the weather make it seem, which is a real shame. I think they registered now, but I don't know

Unknown Speaker 54:25

is I am the lone voice in the house of this radical, extreme body positivity, which one of the one of the non body positive people said it's a cult, they're a cult.

Unknown Speaker 54:40

And there's something wrong with them. And

Unknown Speaker 54:45

so I'm the lone voice. You don't see any of the other body positive people, all the anti fat people. A lot of times they agreed with what I was saying. You don't see any of that you just see me. So

Unknown Speaker 54:57

teaching this type of nutrition

Unknown Speaker 55:00

Schools causes eating disorders and like no context about like, oh, you know, we should shame fat kids to make them not fat. And then it you know, we don't hear that. But we just hear me saying, teaching kids about food gives them eating disorders. And you're like, that's not really what I'm saying.

Unknown Speaker 55:19

Yes. So I don't know is coming out in on the 29th and 30th.

Unknown Speaker 55:25

And

Unknown Speaker 55:27

it's,

Unknown Speaker 55:29

yeah.

Unknown Speaker 55:32

I've been talking with one of the producers the last couple of days. And I'm like, I sent a pretty stern email being like, why did you make me the villain, I thought this was too forward. But acceptance, and you've made me look like like one of the girls was like they've made you look like an extremist. They've really edited it, edited it to make you look bad when you're not bad. You're not a villain.

Unknown Speaker 55:56

And this is not going to move that acceptance forward. And so I sent an email, which was then sent to the BBC. And I was like, Why? Why have you made me look like the villain? What's going on? Why have you got these certain lines in there? Why have you not edited it truthfully, and what the heck sort of thing. And

Unknown Speaker 56:19

they've done a lot of us. And we've had a lot of communication. And they said, you're going to be really pleased with the edits that we've made. And we've shown more of your backstory and things like that. And so and then, so after this thing, they have a psychologist or therapist, which is that's connected with the show with a production company who speaks to all of the contributors. And so I was like, I want to have a chat with her. Because she's not she's, she's she's seen the show. And she knows this process of, you know, getting ready for a show to air and stuff. And after speaking to her, Oh my god, Jenny, I was like, I'm so glad that Jenny is my therapist, because she made me feel so bad. She was.

Unknown Speaker 57:03

I'm like, Yep, I talked to you to you. So you can Boy, am I making you feel bad.

Unknown Speaker 57:09

But she was all like, yeah, yeah, you come across as she was like, I don't think you're the villain. But you know,

Unknown Speaker 57:20

she's making all these assumptions about me. I don't know if they're true or not. But yeah. Like, you don't you don't do well with one on one interpersonal relationships, because you're not vulnerable with them. And I'm like, and you know that like, what? Like, because there's no, you know, we're in this artificial environment of

Unknown Speaker 57:40

the house where I'm surrounded by fat phobes. And like, I'm, of course, I'm not going to be like, Oh, let me tell you about me and stuff to the people who don't like fatness. But to the people who are my friends, of course. And when the cameras are not there, of course, I'm gonna get even more vulnerable. But

Unknown Speaker 58:00

what else did she say? She was saying other things about what about me? And I was like, well,

Unknown Speaker 58:06

that made me question my whole, like, personality and the way that I'm going around in the world, and

Unknown Speaker 58:15

what else? What are the other things that she was saying? All that, that I need to be more sad about my past. And when I'm talking about my past, because I've spoken about it so much like years of therapy, and also, in my business, I talk about my past a lot. And so I can say, I used to be homeless and abused, and I used to hate my bad body. And now I'm this. And because I don't, because I'm not crying. When I'm talking about it. She says that there's something wrong, and I'm hiding something. And I'm like,

Unknown Speaker 58:52

Well, how can you tell this from watching a two hour show and talking to me for half an hour? So I was like, well, well, not all therapists are a good match. Right?

Unknown Speaker 59:04

Okay, we're back to to Vinnie in the, in the not the future, the present. So that was me talking four years ago. Now, what I expect the reaction is going to be and how I plan to react to the trolls and the British media. So let's listen to that. So we have a legal team at the production company who wants to see the troll comments, I guess the the, I don't know what they do they do something. Maybe they want to collect them.

Unknown Speaker 59:43

But I don't personally want to be responsible for going through my Instagram and reading all that shit. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask maybe my sister as my sister to go through, take a screenshot of all of them and then just delete them. So

Unknown Speaker 1:00:00

I don't have to see them. And I'm not going to read any comp, I'm not gonna go out and look for anything. Like if if someone happens to send me any press that they see, and it's positive, then I'll read it. But if not, then I'm not even going to engage in that, because I already know exactly what they're going to say. Because the British media is super fat phobic, like really extreme. My friend, Louise green called Big fit girl. She's a plus sized personal trainer in Vancouver, she went to she released a book, she did a book tour at tour in the UK. And she's promoting health, right? Health, like, let's get fit and whatever.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:41

And they ripped her to shreds. They went, the headlines were like,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:48

this woman who weighs this much thinks that, you know, fat people can be move and do exercise. Like, they were really hardcore, like, hating on her.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:03

And so that kind of gives me a taste of what they might do to someone saying, Hey, it's okay to be fat. And she wasn't even saying like, it's like I didn't fat. She's like, Hey, if you're fat and you want to exercise, this is how you do it. Now we're like this disgusting beast of a woman.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:21

Yeah, so Vinnie in the present, talking now. So I knew that things were going to be rough. And because I had already dealt with trolls, and people with shitty opinions, I thought

Unknown Speaker 1:01:36

I would be robust enough to deal with it, especially as I had been in therapy for years, right? Because it's really easy. If someone says, Vinny, you're wrong, fat people are awful humans. It's really easy for me to not not feel shame about my belief that fat people are a real life humans and should should, you know, be treated as such. Because, ya know, it's not a controversial, I'm gonna say it's not a controversial opinion, but

Unknown Speaker 1:02:07

I'm so sure about that, that I'm so sure that fat people deserve dignity and access to care. And so if someone says you're wrong, well, I'm not going to start saying oh my god, am I wrong? No, I'm not wrong. I know this right. So that was before now the production company we're like, Okay, we have made the all the edits that you suggested and we've really kind of softened you.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:36

So you know, you're gonna love you're gonna love it, though. You know that episode two, you're gonna, it's gonna it really makes you look so good. They didn't say it's gonna make you look so good, but they just used to say soften, you're going to be softened on that. Okay, so I only saw the episodes once before the edit. Then on

Unknown Speaker 1:02:58

Tuesday on Wednesday, the 29th and 30th of October 9pm BMC to the show, they were show and I weighed my family and I gathered around to watch the shows. So you'll hear now from me from the fourth of November so five days after the show's fourth of November 2019

Unknown Speaker 1:03:19

And my reaction five days after

Unknown Speaker 1:03:26

obviously I knew that the world was you know, the UK was going to hate me

Unknown Speaker 1:03:35

but it feels like I'm i It literally feels like I'm the UK is public enemy number one.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:45

And for some for things that I don't believe with and it's kind of like if i i Could I don't I don't mind I do mind but I prefer to be hated for for my actual beliefs versus the beliefs that people think I believe from watching the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:08

Like

Unknown Speaker 1:04:10

okay, so

Unknown Speaker 1:04:12

future of any president Vinnie I'm just gonna the future any other than let's just pretend that I'm in the future

Unknown Speaker 1:04:18

so future Vinay here so next we're going to hear what are the negative beliefs I've internalized by being made the villain villain and this was my my answer that I am

Unknown Speaker 1:04:34

I like anytime empathy

Unknown Speaker 1:04:41

I

Unknown Speaker 1:04:44

a bitch

Unknown Speaker 1:04:49

that I'm unintelligent

Unknown Speaker 1:04:52

that I'm shrill.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:59

That

Unknown Speaker 1:05:00

At

Unknown Speaker 1:05:04

one of the newspaper articles said something like, oh, yeah, Victoria, Victoria is nothing but an irritant.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:12

And I thought, yeah, that's

Unknown Speaker 1:05:15

like, it's I took that on board.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:20

I'm just like,

Unknown Speaker 1:05:22

ridiculous, like a stupid, ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:30

Person. Yeah. It's made me reevaluate maybe the way that I communicate.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:41

But even then, like the show is edited to such a, in such a way that you don't get to see

Unknown Speaker 1:05:52

all of the, you know, the conversations leading up to certain things, you just get to see a one liner, and I'm like, Oh, that one liner doesn't seem very empathetic, like the guy who had the stomach amputation surgery, and there's like, a big debate about why it's bad or whatever. And, and then it just goes to me saying he should have, instead of having a surgery, try to lead a healthful lifestyle. And I'm just like, oh, like, I don't like that. Because it comes across, as you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:06:24

who should have done this, who made that decision, or whatever. And when you don't get to see is the conversation that went before they'll, or after? And it's kind of like, they sum it up in a one liner? And you're gonna get to see them being like, Victoria, what do you think Victoria watts, what should he have done? Instead of having, you know, surgery or whatever, you know, they don't you don't see the setup anyway.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:47

Okay, future Vinny here. So something that was really, really, really, really disappointing was the fact that I naively thought that the production company and individual people

Unknown Speaker 1:06:59

liked me and would not let me be thrown under the bus. Really, I was so naive. My therapist said to me, she always thought that if you go on a show, you go on any type of media, and you just by yourself, you stay true to your your morals, your ethics, whatever, you're just yourself, you'll be fine. There's no way that it can go wrong. If you're, if you are a kind person, that's how you'll come across. If you're an you know, a cruel person. That's how it will come across. And she said, I have learned that this is not true. My therapist watched the show and came back and said, that is not the venue that I know, they've taken all of your, you know, other characteristics that make you a whole person. Because we see the sassy side, right, we see the kind of strong side we see the side that's sticking up for people, but we don't see the, the soft side, the funny side, the vulnerable side, the self depreciating jokes, you know, you don't see all of that side that makes me a fully formed human. So she said, Yeah, I'm not seeing you in this. And, you know, I've had no my therapist for years at that point. So let's hear about that.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:22

And, and the big thing is, like, because we've built I built such like, I've been talking to them for mesmerism that's nice, but I speak to them all the time. And like the production company, and I'm like,

Unknown Speaker 1:08:31

I thought you liked me. And I was like, but I'm not the villain. Like if there was a bill in the House and be dealt with because he was like, so did so many things like, which was wildly inappropriate.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:46

And I was like, I'm just so shocked that you know, they made these changes and I didn't get to see and like it. I'm like, Why did you do me like that?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:57

Am I Am I a bad person? And because I was joking around being like, oh, maybe I'm you know, maybe this will be my wake up call. When I see myself on TV. I realize what a dick I am and now I'm like, oh, maybe I'm a dick.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:11

I'm like, speaking to that other therapist. You know, the one I told you about for I haven't spoken to her since just that one session. And I'm like, What's wrong with me? There's something wrong with me there's, there's something wrong with me. And I haven't figured it out figured it out yet. There's something wrong with my brain, or the way that I communicate like

Unknown Speaker 1:09:30

yeah, because like I see some message some of the messages coming through being like Victorian needs to be

Unknown Speaker 1:09:39

put into what is it you know, when you're put into a hospital because you're crazy. And then I got I got a message on Instagram. Like, I'm trying to avoid all messages, but from a psychotherapist who specializes in eating disorders, saying like the rudest stuff being like

Unknown Speaker 1:10:00

She started with like, Stop, just stop, you are like a bad person. And you need to get help like your dad didn't because there was a line in this thing saying what I said my dad was an alcoholic, and it was tough to live with him. And I'm like, You're a fucking therapist, and you're messaging messaging, some random person on the internet saying, You need to get help, like your dad did, and like saying other rude things. And then I looked at the page, and they'd written a post about me, and I'm like, Oh, my God, you're so misinformed. Like, because I suppose I speak about privilege in the house that I have a privilege body because it's smaller than other people's bodies. And the people who were not body positive were like, How dare you say, you are so egotistical to think that your body is better than my body? And I'm like, that's not what it means. Anyway, so and then this therapist had written a post saying, Victoria thinks that her body is better. I'm like, How can you be a therapist and not understand about privilege? And you're an eating disorder specialist?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:57

I go mad.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:00

And yeah, and so yeah, so then part of me is like, you know, professionals are telling me that I'm Sarat wrong with me. This is what what really bothers me is for a lot of people, this is the first introduction to body positivity. And the way that it's been framed in the show now, this is my perception, it might not be reality, is that one of the people say in the show,

Unknown Speaker 1:11:26

body positivity is a cult. They brainwash themselves. And then it's like this crazy, extreme thing that you are, you know, anti health and

Unknown Speaker 1:11:37

all of this ridiculousness, so that, so it's actively harmed.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:46

body positivity, because people who are like maybe on the fence, they're like, oh, shit, well, I can't do body positivity, because I care about my health. And it's kind of like, well, that's almost what body positivity is, because diets harm you make you physically and mentally sick. So stopping dieting is doing is embracing health. But that's not what the show show shows. And I feel like I've let down the whole movement of fat activism, because I didn't do a good enough job.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:20

At

Unknown Speaker 1:12:22

I didn't know,

Unknown Speaker 1:12:24

I guess, you know, I wish I'd said those exact same words, I just said to you, but I didn't know that. That's what how they were going to frame it, you know?

Unknown Speaker 1:12:32

So I guess I couldn't have done

Unknown Speaker 1:12:35

anything better. There, you know, but I'm, I'm like the main character on the body positivity side. And I'm like, why is it? Why is it all just me? It's just me and my reactions and stuff in the end?

Unknown Speaker 1:12:50

In a nutshell, they're like, Oh, you're just good TV? Because I've got things to say and stuff.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:56

I don't know. But what you don't see is, every time there was a discussion, I was the one who was going out every single person and saying, What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And so every single voice was heard. And, yeah, they don't show they don't, and they just show my views. And I'm like, but, you know, when I saw the screen, and I say you need to show everyone else's view. But why is it just me? It's just me and

Unknown Speaker 1:13:22

whatever.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:24

Okay, future Vinny, back again. So I had a blog post on my website. So by the way, I just want to clarify my what my views are. Because, you know, people were like, hang on a minute, you think the fat people can never get diabetes? And I'm just like, no. What? No.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:44

Just clarifying my views and stuff, to try and know if anyone was interested,

Unknown Speaker 1:13:50

explained to them

Unknown Speaker 1:13:52

trying to get that tried to get them to understand me. Yes. And so, so many calls from the production company, honestly, I cannot tell you, you know, it's like, well, what have you got to speak about? And it was really kind of like them talking at me and saying, Oh, this, you know, you just do so well. And this is so gray and Ella. So they'd always be texting me saying, can we call you and then they call me and be on the phone for ages. And? Yeah, so by the 31st of October, I sent an email to the production company. I said to them, because I have an email and we talk and Lala.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:32

Those were like, how were you or whatever. So I said to them just was walking on the beach earlier and imagine someone coming with a gun and shooting me I think what makes me most anxious is getting attacked for views. I don't hold. I expected people to hate me for saying it's okay to be fat. Everyone seems to think that I don't think fat people get sick and die. And that's not accurate at all. I wish that I'd had known that episode one

Unknown Speaker 1:15:00

was edited to make that assumption about me even more extreme. Why was that done? Why was I made into an extreme character? And what they would say is, we just showed what happened. We just showed what happened.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:16

We didn't. We did. That's not what happened. So

Unknown Speaker 1:15:21

that was frustrating, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:24

Why? November 10. I'm no longer responding to their emails and requests to talk. I talked to my therapist. So that's actually November 11th. I stopped talking to them. So never November 10. I talked to my therapist. This is how I'm feeling at that time.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:44

Like, I feel like the production company gaslighting me because,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:49

you know, like, I spoke to them yesterday, and I'm like,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:55

bye, I thought you liked me sort of thing. So why did you not present me as a sympathetic character, like you did with other people who maybe weren't as actually sympathetic in real life? And they're like, well, we just, you know, that basically, they say, well, we just showed what happened. And then I'm saying, Well, you didn't you didn't show everything that what happened? And they're like, well, we didn't have the time. And, and so then they said, you know, well, we did, you know, there was some softening of you, you know, like, when you when you said that your dad was an alcoholic? And an hour was like, well, that, you know, you don't see, you know, you know, that's just like a little bit in two hours. And there's no, you know, seeing all the sweet moments with everyone and seeing, seeing everything else, you know, so like, I like I said to them, they've made me like, this character that I'm that I'm not and, and they didn't do they didn't necessarily, they changed the episodes even more

Unknown Speaker 1:17:04

before airing, which is what's really difficult, because if I, if they

Unknown Speaker 1:17:11

if I'd seen the final final episodes, when I thought they were the final final episodes, then I could have been like, hey, you know, and actually, I did say like, Hey, like,

Unknown Speaker 1:17:22

you know, I'm the villain make me not the villain. And then wait, yeah, we're making the second episode. So it looks like you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:17:30

it making you a lot softer, they said, and

Unknown Speaker 1:17:34

obviously, not that much. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:38

Future of any here, this is a pit the bit that you need to skip over, if you do not want to hear about suicidal thoughts. So when I stop talking from this bit, skip ahead. Two minutes and 15 actually skip ahead four minutes, and there will be no more talking about suicide ideation.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:04

So when I stop talking,

Unknown Speaker 1:18:07

I'm not making this easy for you. i

Unknown Speaker 1:18:10

I'm just trying to think of the times for when I'm, you know, because I'm recording this now. And anyway, so skip ahead four minutes.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:17

But by the way, I say that I was I was already have I say I was already having suicidal thoughts. And what I mean by that was after the show aired in the past weeks, so before all of this I was doing really, really well. I was really excited about the show and what could happen. Yeah, so it's gonna head four minutes now if you want to hear if not, then let's listen.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:39

I was already feeling like having suicidal thoughts. And

Unknown Speaker 1:18:49

still still having

Unknown Speaker 1:18:55

having those feelings of like, I just want to die and I have no hope. And not being able to cope and

Unknown Speaker 1:19:05

just it feels like one of the worst times in my life.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:10

Like it feels like

Unknown Speaker 1:19:13

Like, I've not been this like sad or hopeless since I was like, in my early 20s And

Unknown Speaker 1:19:21

with the abusive boyfriend and

Unknown Speaker 1:19:24

you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:19:26

to say feels like everything is

Unknown Speaker 1:19:29

like so much excitement and hope for the TV show. And you know, nothing's come of it apart from

Unknown Speaker 1:19:36

loads of

Unknown Speaker 1:19:39

hate that have happened before where it's where, you know, it will just be like an invasive thought of I wish I was dead.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:46

It's like that, but it's also worse than, you know, than like I've ever had before, which is

Unknown Speaker 1:19:55

thinking about

Unknown Speaker 1:19:58

doing things to myself.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:01

Like last night I thought about

Unknown Speaker 1:20:05

like midnight went dead went outside and I thought about walking into the sea and drowning myself

Unknown Speaker 1:20:14

or like stabbing myself with a knife in the tummy.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:21

Like I've never thought about, you know, things like that before. And like last last week my mum was away and so I was alone in the house all weekend.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:32

And one night I was just crying so much and

Unknown Speaker 1:20:38

I was like really close to call in the Samaritans

Unknown Speaker 1:20:45

everything everything that I'm trying I'm like excited about and

Unknown Speaker 1:20:51

doesn't work, I would make sure that I would go out every day with the dogs to the beach.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:03

But one day, when I was on the beach, I wrote in the sand I wish I was dead

Unknown Speaker 1:21:14

we went to

Unknown Speaker 1:21:17

I started Zumba. I've never done that before.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:22

But normally I go to aqua aerobics and I feel too embarrassed to go to, to aqua aerobics. Because everyone that was before the show was like really excited and being like, oh, you're a celebrity. And I just feel really embarrassed that they're going to be like, your, your, you should be ashamed of yourself. And so I don't want to go back.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:43

Okay, for you to have any hair again, that was really hard for me to listen to, I had to go back and I just couldn't just

Unknown Speaker 1:21:53

listening to the me being like, that was really, really sad for me. And I'm not the type of person to cry. That was only the second time in therapy ever, I cried. And I've overcome some really big shit. So, you know, for me to cry in front in front of my therapist, I you know, I'd been socialized not to in my family, we will not cry as was huge for me like the amount of shame for even crying.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:27

Let alone all of the other stuff on my God. So the next bit here is I'm having yet another conversation with the production company and the production company are not a reliable narrator in the reality of what's happening. And because I was so deep in shame, instead of being like, they are not unreliable narrator of what has happened, because they are protecting their interests.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:58

I instead internalized it as well, they're probably being kind by doing me the service of telling me that I'm an awful human. Right, I was really internalizing it, versus being able to say, you know, take a step back and be like, Huh, why is it that they are not telling me the truth that, you know, I'm, I'm a character to them. So let's listen to that.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:27

Talking to them last night, I just wanted them to say, Yeah, you are a nice person, or you're, you know, you're not a villain in we portrayed you that way. But

Unknown Speaker 1:23:40

they won't say that. And then it makes me think a wall. And then they say, well, we just showed showed what happened. And so then I'm like, well, they must hate me, then, you know, I must be

Unknown Speaker 1:23:54

I must be, you know, a shitty person. Because why would they do that to someone that they liked? Or, you know, like, could they be that, that that cruel to spend? How many hours like literally hundreds of hours talking to me and getting to know me and

Unknown Speaker 1:24:15

my history and stuff and then threw me out like nope, throw me out to the lions? Like no, you know, we always knew that there were going to be, you know, loads of fat folks and stuff, but like, I don't care about them, because, you know, this, they're stupid, but the people who

Unknown Speaker 1:24:35

you know, the production company who I thought I didn't, you know, I didn't think that they weren't on my side or something, but it kind of felt like they were into fat positivity and on my side and, you know, liked being with my friend and, you know, this is like I was joking, saying, you know, maybe this is my maybe the show will be my wake up call and

Unknown Speaker 1:25:00

Wake up moment to realize that I'm actually a massive knob. And it kind of feels like that's come true that this is my you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:25:09

by the way, Victoria, no one's told you before but but we're showing you that you're a massive knob and you need to change your behavior or who you are. Or I'm just I'm really surprised like how much

Unknown Speaker 1:25:21

this has affected me. I wish you know, like, if people were like,

Unknown Speaker 1:25:27

Oh, you you want you think we should be nice to fat people, then I'd be like, Yeah, but because they're like, you think no fat person could ever gets sick, and they're gonna live forever? And I'm just like, No, it's not what I think or, you know, people are like, Oh, you're such a bitch and stuff. And I'm like, no, no, I don't think I am. Question mark, whereas a couple of weeks ago would have been like, no exclamation point. But I kind of think like,

Unknown Speaker 1:25:57

you know, I don't know if this is a north north american thing, but it's like a British thing. Like, if you're, when you're a kid, and you and you say, and your parents says to in front of people stop showing off when you're like, messing about and stuff. And it's like, the most embarrassing thing ever, and you're like, I'm not showing off. And that's what I feel like, this is this, you know, I was just free and happy and didn't care and just whatever and showing off and

Unknown Speaker 1:26:25

and now I feel almost embarrassed that I was

Unknown Speaker 1:26:30

oblivious to

Unknown Speaker 1:26:35

how I was or that

Unknown Speaker 1:26:39

people might not might not like me, showing off or, you know, walking around in a bikini and not caring or whatever. Okay, future future have any back.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:50

So the thing, you know, that was really hard was people hating me for beliefs that I didn't hold.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:56

And so this is what's called the straw man argument. So when someone changes the point that they're arguing, arguing against, so, for example, say so I say, Hey, we should treat people like human beings, we should treat fat people like human beings, and they say, Oh, so you think fat people are better than thin people? Here's why you're wrong. Actually, I got so many messages from people saying, you think that fat people are better than thin people? And I was like, what?

Unknown Speaker 1:27:26

Show me one time that I said that, like, no.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:31

So from Wikipedia, a straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussing discussion. While not recognizing or acknowledging this distinction. One who engaged in his set fallacy is said to be attacking a straw man. So that our you know, he's like, You can't argue with people who were saying, We're youth, you think that everyone should be forced to have sex with fat people?

Unknown Speaker 1:27:58

Know what?

Unknown Speaker 1:28:02

Let's listen to this last bit about showing off. I had this dream last night. And it was I was on stage with all of the other participants in this like, big audience. And everyone was just like, we don't want Victoria on the stage. And, and I was trying to get them to like me by like, clowning around, or whatever. And

Unknown Speaker 1:28:25

yeah, I guess like, that's the big feeling of

Unknown Speaker 1:28:29

I was really stupid to be happy and clown and around. Future many here. So that that sentence sentiment, that sentence, I hear from clients often, that they have this experience, they go to an event, they go to a party or whatever, they were feeling confident, they're wearing a new outfit, they just feel good. They then see a picture of themselves. And then they feel deep shame and they feel like oh, I was just out there showing off. I was just out there feeling confident and feeling happy. And little did I know that I looked disgusting really. And so a lot of people experience that and that is the shame of their body and shame they were showing off when they had no reason to. Right and that that's not true right? That's not true.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:22

That they had no reason to because they were just out living their life minus shame and that's how shame works. It will it will just you know rear up and try and remind you of you're trying to you know, let go of shame and then it will be like hell Oh, I'm beg the dip back back again. Isn't honorable song of that. It's just that's Eminem, isn't it? She Slim Shady is back. Have no idea anyway, whatever. Yeah, like I hadn't recognized it. So a lot of this this stuff. This stuff that we're hearing from me. I hadn't. I have never I've never listened

Unknown Speaker 1:30:00

to write, I've never listened, watch back. I didn't want to because it was so difficult for me.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:07

And so I'm seeing now and obviously, I've had so much therapy about this, since I'm seeing things a lot more clearly. So and this is this is healing for me. of, you know, when you step away from someone, or when I hit when I talk to a client, or you know, and they say, I'm really I'm really struggling and this is what I think and I'm like, Oh, that's a lot of shame. When I when I was in deep shame, I was like, Oh, I'm no, it's not shame. I'm just a piece of shit. You know?

Unknown Speaker 1:30:35

I couldn't. And my therapist said at the time, like this is straight and this is what's happening. And, and, you know, that was helpful, but I was still kind of like, well

Unknown Speaker 1:30:48

I'm a terrible Muslim. Yeah, this guy to have one final clip of me talking. Okay, future Vinnie. So one way for me that trauma manifest is bad dreams that always has been.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:01

And so I was I was traumatized by the experience, this experience.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:07

I really was. And that shame, that shame what my dead shame led to, I'm not a worthy human, which led to I shouldn't be here anymore. I should be on alive. This situation is extreme, right? You know, how often are you going to be on a TV show with 2.4 million people watching? It's not a normal situation. But it is a normal feeling. Because you know, anyone has anyone you know, anything could happen. It doesn't have to be in front of millions of people. That same pattern can happen feeling shame, feeling like you're not a worthy person, and feeling suicidal. And so, for me, I think because I've done so much therapy, I think if I had a normal shame experience, like, you know, I don't know, I shit myself on the bus or something. I don't know. I just I probably think that that was funny.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:04

I don't know, something was shamed me something happened that I felt shaped. I think I you know, that wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't have spiraled into feeling so shit there because it was magnified. And that's the thing with reality TV, it's so magnified. You know, it's like shitting yourself on the bus. But you know, there's a TV crew filming it. But you're not shooting yourself, you're saying something that you that you Cringer and then you have all of these people saying you're an awful human, or whatever it is. So the question was, How can I be sad and devastated, which is normal? And not turn it on myself? How can I be disappointed for the outcome of this thing that I was really excited about? And not turn it on myself.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:54

And the option that I had is love, love for myself? For other people who are hurting out there. And self compassion times a million, which is always easier said than done. Right? So I told my family how I was feeling which is really hard. But my mum is my mom is a typical, worried Irish Mommy, you know, like, if you sleep for too long, she's like, I'm sure that they're dead, you know? Yeah, that type of thing. So telling my mom that I was suicidal was difficult, because I know that she would be so worried. I told my sister and I felt really worried about 10 of my sister because guess what I felt like a giant burden. And, you know, I felt worthy of the shame that I was feeling and, and she was, the reactions were different from what I expected. You know, I expected I'm a burden. Hence why having

Unknown Speaker 1:33:55

suicidal feelings. And if I tell my family, that this is how I'm feeling, feeling, they're probably just going to confirm that I'm a burden. You know, because my mom will be worried that's a burden some to her. My sister will just be like, Ah, so you just have a reaction that would be no way that she would have but my brain was telling me that she just put it Oh, shut up, you know, but they were like, it's almost like they love me. Oh, so weird. You know, they were like, We love you. And we're so sorry this happened. And you're important to us and your mental health is important to us. I couldn't do that alone. If I had to, I would have died.

Unknown Speaker 1:34:44

So if you're having those same feelings that I'm having, please talk to someone. Just that you know, the act of talking to someone was really helpful for me and telling my family I feel shit and just being like, we're kind of like we're in this together. Versus this

Unknown Speaker 1:35:00

Since the end of it, and I cannot share that shame with anyone, and this is exactly like people who are shaming you, this is exactly how they want you to feel. They want to shut you up. They want you to feel like you're worthless. And that's bullshit. And this is a good lesson of how hard it is to not internalize shame. It's so hard not to internalize shame. And the big thing is, you know, just continue reaching out to telling telling people in my life how I was feeling, which was difficult. And I did little bits, but not really, you know, I'd be like, oh, you know, I was really fucked up for that program. And I think, you know, I can maybe told a couple of friends that yeah, I was actually suicidal. And, and knowing that I'm a lovable person.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:49

I deserve love, and people do love me. And a reminder that you are lovable.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:56

And you deserve love.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:59

There's this post on Instagram that I saw recently. It's so good. Apparently, it's a lot of people love it. It's really, it's really interesting that the different types of suicide suicidal ideation, so skip ahead a couple of minutes if you don't want me to, I'm just going to read out the read out the post, it's an image. So the images I'll put the link in the in the show notes, the images of like a thermometer, and like at the bottom, no ideation at the top, you've got acting on it underneath you've got no ideation, passive ideation, active ideation, active ideation, and then acting upon the ideation so they say this is opposed from Elise rione.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:43

Note all of these types and levels of suicidality are valid and doesn't dictate the level of pain intensity or distress you may feel. These are these also aren't always clear cut someone might be moving around a few skip levels, fall in between etc. Okay, so right at the bottom, no ideation you just don't have any thoughts about suicide. Next, we have random intrusive thought.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:10

Passing thought, curiosity, for example, what if I just jumped when waiting for the train? And it's but that's different if the person has chronic suicidality. Next, so that's no ideation next is passive. So passive is thoughts of morbidity. So thinking about own death, and dying, but not specifically by self. Example, I wish I would. I wish I wouldn't wake up. I wish I would did.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:40

The next one for passive is suicidal thoughts with no intent or plan. So thinking about killing self, but no details and no intention to act? Example, I should just kill myself. I wish I could just kill myself. Okay, so next is the active suicidal thoughts method, no plan or intent has an idea of how they would do it. But no specific plan or intent example. I thought about overdosing by and not going to do it. So that's where I was I was in the active suicidal ideation stage. The next part of that stage is suicidal intent. No plan. So intends to kill self but doesn't have a specific plan. For example, I think I'm going to kill myself but not sure when. Okay, so the next one is at the top of the thermometer, and it's the act stage. So suicidal with plan and intent. So has a specific plan, how, when where, and intends to carry it out example, I'm going to overdose tomorrow at home. And the final is suicide attempt attempts to kill self either initiating may plan or impulsively really good graphic, you are able to print or download in my suicide prevention pack on the website for Elise Mariani and again, linked in the show notes. And, you know, if you're feeling any of these things, wherever you are on the exactly like it says on here, it's valid, and it doesn't dictate the level of pain, like I was in really huge, huge pain. And so when I first read this, I was like, Oh, well, I wasn't as bad as what I thought. But I was in and out a whole heap of pain.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:32

You know, and so you could be like, lower on the scale or whatever, you know, everyone is different, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:39:40

Yeah. So by this point in our story, I have emailed the production company and said,

Unknown Speaker 1:39:49

you limit so that was November that I was that was November the last time I was we hear we heard from Pastor Vinnie and January the ninth I email

Unknown Speaker 1:40:00

Hold the production company. So, still feeling suicidal, saying I just want you to update you with how I'm getting on because I keep their keep badgering me, right. I'm not in a place to be able to chat at the moment since the show aired. And we last chatted, I've been struggling a lot with how I've prepared and it has made me suicidal. I haven't been suicidal since I came out of an abusive relationship 15 years ago. And so, this has come as a big shock to me to be at this place. Again, when I've worked so hard on my mental health, and I'm more normally very resilient.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:34

It's not the public response per se, because I knew people would hate me. It's a fact that I thought everyone at the production company liked me, understood me, cared about me. But I was being naive about what the reality was, that it wasn't about liking me or not, it was about making entertainment. Unfortunately, it's come at the expense of my well being.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:54

And then February, I email them saying, Don't contact me anymore, because they kept contacting me.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:01

So how shame works I find shame so fascinating. It's such a such a fucking motherfucker, isn't it? So I'm just gonna read the Psychology Today, some bits of from the Psychology Today article.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:18

What is shame? And how does it show up in your life and work? We all have shame and quote, the less you talk about it according to Brene Brown, the more you have it, so let's talk about it a little more, so that we might experience it a little bit less. And what is shame? Shame is a deeply distressing uncomfortable emotion which typically arises when we've made a mistake. Shame. In contrast to guilt, which we'll get to in a minute involves feelings of inadequacy, negative self evaluation and self consciousness in response to our perceived error. Brene Brown describes shame as the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed and therefore unloved, unworthy of love, and belonging, something we've experienced, done or failed to do makes us unworthy of connection. In other words, having done something wrong, we feel that we ourselves not just our actions are flawed shame is underlined by a nagging belief, or sufficient that we are inadequate or unlovable.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:18

And the difference between shame and guilt, guilt and shame are closely related in that each occurs after having made a mistake of some kind, we may feel remorseful In either case, however, guilt is a feeling about our actions were a shame is a feeling about ourselves. Brene Brown differentiates the two is follow. Shame is I am bad. Guilt is I did something bad.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:42

Another difference is that the remorse brought about by guilt can actually be constructive. If we know our actions can hurt someone, for example, we can allow our guilt to inform how we fix the error. We may apologize, make amends or act differently next time. Shame on the other hand, is not constructive. Carl Jung described it as a soul eating emotion.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:06

Not only does shame lead to a host of emotional interpersonal problems, but we also are more likely to disconnect from both ourselves and others when we feel shame.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:18

And that's what I did is is I have disconnected from a lot of my friends. Like I've been back in Vancouver for two years. I'm just now starting to see my extended friend circle. And they they a lot of them can't believe it. They're like you've been back for two years. Like why can I? Why haven't we heard from you. And it's because I've been isolating I've been isolating from my closest friends and family because I was able to tell them how I was feeling.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:51

So how shame impacts you as an adult. Some examples of

Unknown Speaker 1:43:56

shame or self perpetuating phenomenon. If when we're in shame, it is hard to extract ourselves from it, both in the moment and within a larger, lifelong pattern of feeling unlovable, unworthy and defective. When we experience shame as adults, we may deal with it internally or attempted to stop discharge it externally. In other words, the shame we feel if it gets projected onto others externally, or turned inward towards ourselves. Typically we do a bit of both. So examples of external shame include blame, contempt, anger, shaming others, or controlling of others. So I was I think I was in the anger.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:35

I'm probably blamed, I probably blamed the production company.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:39

We're probably more intimately familiar, however, with the ways that our shame gets turned inward. Some examples of shame directed inward include perfectionism, isolation, isolation, slash withdrawal, that was me, addiction, self harm, low self esteem. That definitely affected my self esteem and feelings of worthlessness. Yep.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:00

A chronic shame can have a profound impact on our mental health, including increased risk of depression, anxiety and suicide. It can also show up in our lives in more innocuous ways, including at work in our relationships, and when we least expect it.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:15

They say how to tame shame reparent yourself, revisit your childhood, know your triggers, turn your inner critic into a trusted coach. Make small positive changes.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:31

So if you want to read that whole thing, link in the show notes. What are we on? 181 100 fifty.com forward slash 180. For that funny I want to end with, you know, what's the future for reality TV? I wonder if you want to know what's the future for me? I don't know what I'm alive.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:52

We

Unknown Speaker 1:45:55

but people have been talking about this right? And people haven't noticed not only the suicides but also how people in reality TV are treated poorly. So here's a thing from from time, a thing. Here's an article from time. Why is it why it's so hard for reality TV stars to get protection from exploitation. Okay, so in 2019, Morgan, and Selim, we're going to assume a contestant who participated in the French Big Brother adaptation, Secret Story frosh five and 2011 did what many other reality stars deemed unthinkable. She spoke up against the super power production company that runs the popular show, over a 30 minute YouTube video on some gave a look into the otherwise mysterious workings of reality TV. By the way, it's in French I went to try and watch it but I don't speak French. On some alleged that throughout the casting, filming and post production of the show, which required her to be sequestered from the world for 13 weeks, she experienced psychological manipulation, including restricted access to prescribe antihistamines, which led to severe symptoms and later PTSD. With the video, which is now has 4 million views She aimed to give a better understanding of how reality TV shows function and potentially help future participants know what they'd be getting themselves into on some recalls being isolated in that decision. She says while many of her classmates private related to the her experience, they were not willing to talk about it in in public due to fears of retaliation, or being blacklisted from production. It's true it's true the fear of this huge conglomerate, and you're breaking the rules. I'm breaking up breaking the world right now. Don't Don't Don't Don't tell them.

Unknown Speaker 1:47:45

I can get sued or something, you know, because I'm not allowed to talk about this stuff. But you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:47:51

doing it any I'm getting anxious about that. Oh, anyway, so you don't you just don't you because you're just a person, right? Yeah. Why would you talk out speak out and about a big, big thing when there's so much to lose isn't well, what's to gain? For me what's the gain is releasing some more of the shame that I'm feeling and not being isolated in how I'm doing. Okay, continuing, a lot of stuff was done to push us to the edge and it was rough. That's so true. They try and push you to the edge. She tells time. I knew I needed to wait for when my NDA expired, but I promised myself I would say something so she she had a seven year NDA. I think my NDA is like forever. Now amid ongoing strikes in the entertainment industry on som has come comfort is comforted to see a broader discussion emerge over exploitation in the reality TV industry, with writers and actors on strike in Hollywood, the production of a new scripted TV of new scripted TV has slowed to a trickle trickle and reality shows along with game shows and reruns will fill the void left on broadcast TV come fall. As scripted TV dominates the channels there has been a new push for reform and reality TV.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:05

So now there's current efforts for reform this summer former Real Housewives of New York cast member Bethany Frankel questioned why reality stars were also on strike along with writers and actors and led to call for a reality TV unit. unionisation quote, reality stylists should have a union or simply be treated fairly and valued. She wrote in an Instagram caption. Frankl has since partnered with two high powered attorneys to look at look into the alleged mistreatment of reality personalities. In August sag AFTRA.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:37

AFTRA confirmed its support of Frankel Frankel isn't the only one trying to bring reality styles together against exploitation earlier this year. Multiple Love is blind contestants alleged that the Netflix reality series fostered in an environment that was quote hell on earth in an insider piece. Nick Thompson, a contestant from season two said the production offered little in the way of support after

Unknown Speaker 1:50:00

Putting cast members in a dating experience experiment saying it's quote literally ruins lives. his classmate Jeremy Hartwell filed a lawsuit against Netflix for quote, inhumane working conditions. Following the insider piece. Kinetic content, the production company behind Love is blind, told The Hollywood Reporter In a statement, quote, the well being of our participants is of paramount importance to kinetic. We have rigorous protocols in place to care for each person before during and after filming. I think that's probably bullshit. Unless they're paying for that person to have their own therapist. They're paying them a fair wage. They are also filming in a way that is ethical. They are also filming in a way

Unknown Speaker 1:50:50

editing in a way that is truthful. It's just not true. You know, it's just uh, you know, we do the do what best you know, we offer them support, but it's like, you know, with me being offered support from a therapist who, who, who was was not good for the production company. They're not on my side.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:12

In reality TV the matter of who can share what is complicated by star power and non disclosure agreements. FRANKEL is a bonafide reality star with a large platform of her own. She can speak out and call for unionization while facing little in the way of consequences for stars like ensemble Thompson and Hartwell calling attention to the mistreatment cast members often face means that they will likely never return to reality TV exactly is terrifying. Hartwell itself tells time, I'm going up against these massive organizations and companies and feeling like you're the only one out there in the public eye doing it. Their organizing has already brought to the forefront conversations that usually stay behind closed doors with productions. But several factors from production companies wanting to remain low cost to reality styles facing NDAs and wanting to sustain their careers mean that the road to reform is a long one. Frankel's call to you know, unionize, put pressures puts pressure on television production companies and networks to reconsider how stars in unscripted programming get paid. Currently, reality TV stars do not receive residuals and they give away their likeness in perpetuity. When series becomes hits and gets replayed across platforms. Quote, I got paid 7250 For my first season season of reality TV, and people are still watching those episodes episodes said Frankel in a tick tock video. For networks maintaining their structure as it keeps this form of entertainment cost effective reality TV is already significantly cheaper to produce and scripted television television due to lower budgets that don't require the employment of unionized writers and actors and Hart wells class action lawsuit claims contestants on his season of love is blind were paid around at $7.14 per hour, significantly lower than Los Angeles $15 minimum wage rate where the production company is based. Yes. So what I'm taking from all of this is,

Unknown Speaker 1:53:11

you know, when I'm watching reality TV, because it's entertainment, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:53:16

It's entertaining, is when they show someone who we love to hey, you know, that character that we love to hate? I will rarely be curious about what actually happened. I would love to know, like, I would love to know, I would love to pick the brain of someone who is behind the scenes of making the program like are they like, Okay, what is the story? What story are we going for? Are we going to be showing that this person is is is unstable, and this person is mean, and this person is really sweet. And this person is whatever, like, and then they kind of fit the narrative? What like is that what's happening? Or is it that they because they can't show all of the stories, right? They can't show fully rounded characters, they don't have the time. And it's probably not as entertaining, right? It's probably not as entertaining being like, yeah, that person said some things that probably weren't appropriate at that time. But you know, what, afterwards, they apologized and, and, you know, it's understandable why they said that because other person did that. And, you know, and actually, we know about that background, and I can see why they might have experience around, you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:54:35

that's less fun than being like, oh, that person's evil. Oh, they're so annoying, you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:54:42

but these are not characters. They're real humans. And that visible hate that the public has for them. And probably that experience of from the production company of there has to be true.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:00

It's built with a production company for them to be safe to be themselves in front of the camera as much as they can be, you know, well, maybe not. But there has to be trust is is attempting to be built with a production company.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:12

And so wondering how many people feel like that trust is broken. And for me, the big thing, the big thing that I keep coming back to is that there's that master interview, that master interview fucked me up. And the amount of times, I think about lines that I said in the master interview, and feel so much shame, and be like, Well, why didn't you just do this? Why didn't you just say that? I mean, well, I guess I did. You know, when I said that's inappropriate. Doesn't matter that I said, I, you know, certain questions, that's inappropriate. I don't want to answer that. I set a boundary there. Yeah, I set a boundary there. I said, I'm not answering that question. And they kept going against the boundary. Yeah, that's a year when my therapist said to me like boundaries.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:58

Like, she uses this analogy, like a staircase, right? So you know, the first time you set a boundary, you might be like, Oh, no, thanks. And the next step time, you know, the person keeps pushing, it's your boundary, you might be like, Oh, it's not for me. Thanks. I'm not going to do it. And then next time, you're like, No, thank you. And then the next time you're like, Listen, I've said, no, no. And then the next time they're gonna, you're gonna be like, hey, leave, listen, leave me alone. And so the TV show is show is showing that final one, whether you say, Hey, listen, leave me alone. And it makes you seem unreasonable. Because they you know, they say he having a nice day, and then hey, listen, leave me alone. is like, Oh, wow, my person is all gone. And I need to react like that. And you don't see everything that leading up to it, right.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:49

Yeah, cuz I was like having like a white. Why? Why did I have to be stern? Always because I said, I am not answering that question. Probably 15 times.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:03

Hello. I think most people would probably like, What the fuck?

Unknown Speaker 1:57:09

No, leave me alone. Jesus Christ.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:13

Hey, so it's a Vinny from the future future. That was the I had just recorded the episode.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:22

And I was

Unknown Speaker 1:57:24

having a bath. And thinking about things and being like, Oh, shame, shame, shame. I'm not gonna put the episode out.

Unknown Speaker 1:57:34

Anyway, and I think in what's what's my barrier?

Unknown Speaker 1:57:38

have forgot to say I forgot to say something. And the thing that I wanted to say was

Unknown Speaker 1:57:47

that

Unknown Speaker 1:57:50

if you just if you choose to watch the episode,

Unknown Speaker 1:57:55

episodes, it's, again, if you want to, it's called. Who are you calling fat? BBC. Who are you calling flat BBC.

Unknown Speaker 1:58:04

You might watch it and be like, Oh, I thought you were really awesome. Vinnie, you did really? Well. I don't think that you're the villain at all.

Unknown Speaker 1:58:16

And some people might watch it and be like, Oh, yeah. You're the villain for sure. And then everyone's gonna have an opinion in between.

Unknown Speaker 1:58:26

That's the thing that that was difficult for me, right was that

Unknown Speaker 1:58:32

there's no kind of clear cut.

Unknown Speaker 1:58:35

But so saying so saying that, it doesn't matter if I was amazing on the show, in reality, or if I was the villain in the show, in reality, I was harmed either way, right? And when I was, like, deep in my,

Unknown Speaker 1:58:54

my depression,

Unknown Speaker 1:58:57

I was getting a lot of messages saying, Vinny Wow, that was so awesome. You were so good in that you really, you know, did this and that, and it was really helpful for me. And those messages were lovely to see. But what, in my mind at the time, almost meaningless, because I was just like, well, you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:59:18

but they don't know. Like, their opinion doesn't count is so weird, like the way that my brain was working like the, the awful opinions, they count that when people are like video awesome. They don't count obviously. Because you know, you're in shame. Obviously, they do count though, you know.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:36

So, so you might watch it and be like, I don't know what even they're talking about that being the villain or, or probably the, somewhere in between.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:47

But also,

Unknown Speaker 1:59:50

I was only in the house filming for like nine or 10 days, whatever it was.

Unknown Speaker 1:59:56

And I was not the clear cut like

Unknown Speaker 2:00:00

An evil terrible, awful person that everyone in the world was together on the fact that they that I am, you know, not worthy of anything versus other TV shows where there is a clear cut like everyone's like, Oh my god, so and so is awful, right.

Unknown Speaker 2:00:22

And so just recognizing that

Unknown Speaker 2:00:27

I only had to put up with the stuff for 10 days, the, you know, the filming and the filming was fine, you know, film was okay, apart from, you know, the couple of traumatic things. But

Unknown Speaker 2:00:39

and then obviously, you know, that master interview really fucked me up. But

Unknown Speaker 2:00:45

anyway, that was just 10 days, nine days, whatever it was, some people are on these TV shows for weeks and weeks and weeks, right. And some people have that they are definitely 100% The villain and everyone in the world hates them. And so I just want to kind of recognize those people before

Unknown Speaker 2:01:05

they have.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:09

That is really, really difficult. And so if I had went through kind of what I went through from not clear cut, am I the villain and 10 days of filming, and that made me almost die.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:26

What could happen if it was 11 days, 13 days, two weeks of filming five weeks of filming a year of filming?

Unknown Speaker 2:01:36

And what if I didn't get any messages saying Oh, Vinnie, you're cool.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:42

You know, so

Unknown Speaker 2:01:44

I was just like, oh, you know, I don't want people think that I'm just complaining. And it's like,

Unknown Speaker 2:01:50

shame, shame, shame, shame, shame.

Unknown Speaker 2:01:55

I'm so conscious of since the show, I've been so conscious of how

Unknown Speaker 2:02:02

I can be misinterpreted, and wanting to explain myself so that there is less chance I will be misinterpreted. I'll always be misinterpreted. You know, just because people hear information in different ways, right. But I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Because I think

Unknown Speaker 2:02:24

it's almost like I'm making disclaimers all the time of this, which is, I guess, helpful for for some people because, you know, like, I use the example of sort of, you know, people were messaging me and saying you hate thin people. And so like,

Unknown Speaker 2:02:38

if I do a, you know, an Instagram post, I'll I'll, I'll have like a, make sure that I'm like, I'm not saying that I hate thin people.

Unknown Speaker 2:02:50

As you know, as an example, or any other way that it can maybe me be misconstrued, which is

Unknown Speaker 2:02:59

I don't know, maybe it maybe makes me a better communicator makes maybe it makes me

Unknown Speaker 2:03:04

paranoid.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:06

I don't know. Who knows, but whatever. Anyway, that's what I want you to come and say is that

Unknown Speaker 2:03:12

your perception of how I come across on the show, if you watch it might be different from reality.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:22

And my perception is my perception is that there would certainly good bits in there of me and there was some bits where I was, like I said, a really good one liner.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:30

Or, you know,

Unknown Speaker 2:03:34

yeah, that was good bits. But also there were bits where it was just like, so crushingly cringe, and

Unknown Speaker 2:03:40

so it wasn't that's the thing. It's not like 100% clear cut, like I'm the worst human that's ever existed. But you know,

Unknown Speaker 2:03:49

the, the the jest that I got from it is that I'm a dickhead. Again, you might not agree.

Unknown Speaker 2:03:55

And even like the contributors, the other contributors, some of them said yeah, you're the villainous said no, you're amazing. So

Unknown Speaker 2:04:03

yeah, if you're gonna watch the show,

Unknown Speaker 2:04:07

be be aware that there's people using the Oh words, there's people there who were displaying anti fat beliefs. So proceed with caution. There are bits obviously that's the joy for fat positivity. So if you want to risk that

Unknown Speaker 2:04:23

fat negativity and fat hate for the fat positivity then then go watch it wherever you find it. I'm again not googling it, because

Unknown Speaker 2:04:32

that's not safe for my mental health. Anytime like I need to Google like something like office for a podcast episode, whatever. And it will look at Google I'm like, Oh, God just don't even look like hard for my mental health. Like, look, you know what the trolls is a. Anyway, I'll stop rambling. Back to the episode by

Unknown Speaker 2:04:52

So anyway, this has been a really long episode. I hope that you found it enjoyable.

Unknown Speaker 2:04:59

You know, versus versus it just being a therapeutic device for me. And I do feel I do feel I do feel I feel good. I do feel anxious and Shamy a little bit but not too much. And I feel like something's been lifted. So yeah, and again, if you're feeling you're not feeling good, there's resources out there. And you're lovable, you're worthy. You don't deserve to feel shamed. Yeah, and I hope I hope hopefully you're all doing good and links for everything in the show notes. If you want to support the show. You can do so on Koh Phi. And yeah, I'll see you in the next episode. Stay first 143 is body they face fatty. See in a while alligator.