Episode 131 Transcript

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You're listening to The Fierce Fatty Podcast Episode 131. "Help! I’m Surrounded by Fatphobes!”. I'm your host, Vinnie Welsby. Let's do it.

I'm Vinny Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author, and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident fierce fatty who loves every inch of this jelly. Society teaches us living with a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money, and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the Fierce Fatty Podcast Let's begin.

Unknown Speaker 1:17

Hello, and welcome to this episode. How are you doing? How's life? You're feeling? Good. I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. Hey, I got a couple of recommendations for you for stuff to watch. That's positive. Might be behind the times on this one. Well, actually, no, we came out 2022 2022 This year, so it's called somebody somewhere starring Bridget Everett. See comedy drama. And in Canada, I watch it on crave which is which has had HBO. So wherever you watch HBO stuff, then you should be able to find it. And Bridget, Bridget Everett is a fact. Actor. She's 50 years old. And this, like I'd seen this advertised and I was just like, What is this? And it took me a few times to want to watch it. But it was so good. I like watched the whole first season. There's only one season so far. In like three minutes. It was it was that good. It just so endearing. No. No fat, negativity, really. Just she's a cool person, just living life and she happens to be fat. It's really good. It's really it's really good. And we have also a trans actor in the main the main cast there, as well. So yeah, it's cool. And so you might know Bridget Everett from Patty cakes have had cakes as a movie. Because it's came out on like 2018 I think which stars Danielle MacDonald which you should You probably recognize you probably recognize these people. Danielle MacDonald stars and Patty cakes. Daniel McDonald was also in dumpling with Jenna at Jennifer Aniston and Danielle McDonald in Patek. If you haven't seen Patty cakes, go watch it. It's so good. That was on. Oh, you can watch it on Disney plus, is what Google is telling me. You can watch it on Disney plus, so and the music and it's so good. PATIC aka dollar signs. Paddy cakes. Patty cakes Paddy. It's really good as a running gold. Yeah, if you don't seem Dumplin that's probably like us. That's a really popular one too. And I found stuff that stuff but somebody somewhere on crave slash HBO. Wherever you get crave HBO starring Bridget Everett. I'll put it in the show notes just in case you forget. And you're like, What the fuck are they talking about? So you can always find the show notes at face value.com For slash podcast or for this episode is one free one. Also just an FYI. As a reminder, you can also get this transcript for every single episode. That's a lie. I am boldface lying for every new episode. And also, we're working on doing transcripts for the old episodes. And we're almost done. So we're doing three transcripts a week. So we're like back to like Episode II or 20 II so and then the first 10 episodes I think had transcripts. So we're almost done of every single episode. So I'd say 90% of episodes have transcripts. So tell your friends if they want transcripts. If you want a transcript. We've got transcripts there in the show notes for certified.com forward slash podcaster for this episode, one three along so yes I'm talking about podcasting thing I was having dinner at dinner with him on Monday to gorgeous a Mexican restaurant with at Summit in an imino summer friend of the show. Also friend of mine in real life and she has a podcast too which is really good go check that out. It's called Eat the rules. And we were she had texted me the day of this screenshot of a review that someone had had left for her podcast one of the episodes that we remember we did like def two diets which was six episodes where we were kind of testing something out and we had an episode about Jvn Jonathan Van Ness and the suppose it sugar addiction Jvn uses he him them they I think she is well pronouns let's see him I know for sure and they them I know for sure maybe she her

Unknown Speaker 6:05

Oh Do you know what JB and blocked me Ah Oh shit because of that episode Jeremy. I gotta tell you is ever uses she is well as they and he because I, JVM, JVM. Whoever criticized JVM for that there was a super fat phobic episode he did with getting curious. And some fat activists call it called him out and he blocked them

Unknown Speaker 6:51

sad I mean, come on now. Come on. Goodbye. But I mean, like if I was him, I'd be blocking us as well. Not that we did it said anything wrong. But yeah, because I probably haven't got time for these fucking bitches. These idiots whatever. Anyway, in the episode, we'll JVM will just saying how sugar addiction isn't a thing. And Jvn sounds like it sounds like they have struggled with being a diet culture and being fat phobia. And they had a meeting with a I don't know what she called us, I think she was she might have been a dietitian, something like that. Some sort of food professional. And he was saying that food addiction is is real and told Jvn that he had sugar addiction with some very dubious science. Anyway, so someone had sent in a review for some as podcast saying that the lines of I came here to listen to stuff to help me feel good about my body. And they just made fun of the let's say they're a dietitian, the dietitian because she was sitting made fun of her thin body. And I'm here to get to love my body. And they're just making fun of thin people. And we were somewhere and I we were like texting back and forth kind of laugh at laughing about the thin fragility, the fragility in that, that that review and then when we had dinner on Monday night, we were like, wonder what's going on though behind it. Like what's going on behind this person is mad. Because we were laughing because it's kind of like, what? We didn't make fun of the dietician for being thin. We have what summer said was the so the dietitian was like obviously in diet culture and in in fatphobia and believes that sugar addiction is a thing and in summer, I said oh, she wasn't very friendly. She wasn't very entertaining, right? So if you're gonna be on TV, you might as well also be like entertaining and an interesting and funny or something, you know, but she wasn't very entertaining and and summer said, yeah, she's probably hungry. And that was a good old knees up. Yep, she's probably hungry because she's in diet culture. She's, she's restricting food. She's not eating enough food. She's not eating any sugar. Whereas we think that this person think thought that we were making saying she's hungry because she's thin. Like we're somewhere and I didn't even connect to that because something that we realized we were talking about was that for people who are new to anti diet, fat positivity, they might hear some or or I or anyone else talking about thingness talking about whiteness, and think that we are talking about individual people and not structures systems. of oppression. And we're gonna be talking about individual people who are buying into structures of oppression. So this dietitian was buying into, you know, fatphobia dot diet, culture and the, and the privilege that comes from being thin, right. But, like, that's, that's kind of like to us a given, and to people who've probably listened to our podcast for a while, like, that's a given, we're talking about the structure of privilege, in this instance, thinness. And we're not talking about how thin people are bad or thin people are unattractive or thin people are need to be, you know, thrown into outer space or something. Fineness, the concept of fineness as a superior body type and as a way to oppress others, that system should be thrown into space, but not thin people. The ideology, you know, the oppressive ideologies. And so we were like, Oh, shit, yeah, like, you wouldn't maybe we need to be more explicit. And also, this is a shit ton of, you know, thin fragility of, there's no way in the world that similar and I wouldn't make fun of someone for their body size. I mean, come on. Go. Nah, like, that's what we were like, what would you mean, we would like, is making fun of this person for their her body size. I was like, that doesn't that doesn't make sense. And then we looked into it, and it's like, I can see why someone might think that question mark. Anyway, so long story short, just saying. Just an FYI. That

Unknown Speaker 11:50

always, we're talking about what I'm talking about for myself, I'm talking about you know, if I'm talking about thin privilege, I'm not saying thin people need to go away and die. You know, I'm not saying that white people need to go away and die. Just you know, the idea of, of whiteness or fineness or able bodied pneus as a superior quality of a human. Yeah, now. Anyway, somebody else at some I said, because I was like, where did you just find this review? Because I don't go i i don't normally go and check reviews unless I've asked you not to do a review and then I'll go and see if you've done it. And you certainly do. Thank you. And anyway, she says she's got some there's a thing that you can go and look at your reviews around the world I keep forgetting about it's called charitable in case you have a podcast or you want to go and nosey on other people's podcasts, but reviews from around the world well, because Apple podcasts are super annoying. They only do regional reviews. And so if you live in one country you can only see the reviews from that country. So anyway, so I've just gone and checked out my most recent reviews. Thank you, so I'm gonna read out a few of them. So reviews were first of all the podcast entertaining a thought provoking, very nice narration is so so in capital's entertaining, that it captured my attention and kept me listening. And before long, I was learning and becoming more and more supportive of fact, acceptance. Love it. Thank you so much for the podcast and highly recommend to anyone and that is from someone who lives in Japan. Amazing. Konnichiwa Genki deska Domina. Gattaca is a mass and that our super Raschi Janay matinee that is a study Japanese. And that was Hello. How were you? Thank you. You're awesome. See you later. See you later, crocodile. I didn't say See you later. Crocodile just said See ya. So I get out my little bit of Japanese that I remember for that to Japanese. This is like review from Japan's super cool. Okay. Another review is from Denmark. I'm a Danish English English listener. The listener and I'm so glad that I found this podcast Vinnie is voice always calms me down. And I love to hear their perspective on things. They talk and educate about fat phobia and also about a lot of other important stuff is kinda enjoyable to hear them talk about their private life and life and dating etc. Heart kinda. I think they probably made it just like casual is kind of interesting. Thank you. And that is from Kim, Malia some of these you know I can't read out the user names because it's like this next one is cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo. BBB BBB. Why? Well, anyway, this next one five stars. This podcast is full of great information. I really appreciate Vinnie sense a humor. They are also very compassionate and thought full about how they present information about fat phobia. In our culture, they are a unique voice in the fat positive movement and their unique identities bring a great perspective to the man. Thank you. And that's from United States of America. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you all for your reviews. And you know what, it's so heartwarming to see. You all use my pronouns, and my name Vinnie. And they them. Beautiful. Thank you. It's so affirming to read that really. And just one more Australia, Vinnie is and that's nuts. laughing face. I must have said, Hey, could you want to go and do a go do a review and you can just say, they're the mutts nuts. You know, that's all you need to say. And that's probably why that person has written that. Yes. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And let's get on to talking about what we're talking about today, which is when you're surrounded by fat foods, by body bigots by people who invest in a weight stigma and anti fat bias. Fun times, fun times. So when I talk to people who are struggling with body image stuff, I will ask them some questions about what's going on in their brains currently, what's going into their brains, what they're being influenced by what messages they're absorbing. So when you know, when people are asking me for advice, you know, like in coaching settings,

Unknown Speaker 16:36

I don't know why I'm really struggling with you know, the question, or I'll be like, I'm really struggling with my body, even though I've been doing this work for XYZ amount of months or whatever. And I'll say, Okay, well, let's, let's get our detective Spyglass monocle. thing on. And let's do some detective work to work out what might be helping you and maybe what is not so helpful that's going on in your life. And I'll ask them certain questions. Now, if you've done no work on body image, or if you're new to the concept of I anti diet, or fat positivity, then I can probably guess what's going on, with the messages that you're receiving into that gorgeous brain of yours, you're probably getting a shirt ton of dog shit into your brain dogshit being like culture and fat phobia, and lots of different, unhelpful things. And just the average person on the street, you know, somewhat, you know, just an average person who isn't, you know, has no idea about anti diet or fat phobia. I feel like I could just take their phone and be like, let's have a look. Let's see what's going on with just like your phone, or the people you're talking to, or whatever. And it's just going to be covered with loads of unhelpful messages is just, you know, so often, that's the way it goes. And so, here's my first thing for you. So, I am giving you a challenge. I'm giving you a challenge to open up your phone and go on social media, whatever one you use, most often, and scroll through. And notice you might want to write it down or something. Notice all the first the posts that you're seeing when you first open the your social media, whatever it is, so are they messages that are going to support your journey to unlearning fatphobia? Is it a ton of diety stuff? Is it a ton of normative bodies? Like with Facebook, it could be whatever you know, it's just my friends saying oh look at my kids looking cute or whatever. And you know, is that you can decide is Does that feel good for you? You know, maybe maybe not. But you know, is it that all your friends are have certain body types is it that they're like, oh my god, I just tried this this keto diet and it's amazing. If it's on Instagram, you know, who are you following? On Tik Tok? etc. So is it a mix of of harmful stuff and help maybe some neutral stuff? Is it mostly positive stuff? So take note of the first 10 posts and so I did this with mine so I opened my Instagram. And this is what I saw on my Instagram just to give you an an idea of the stuff that's going into my brain and this is totally random. No, nope, nope. No, fudging it no kind of getting rid of things that I didn't look made me look good. So the first one was an anti diet dietician sharing something the next one As a black body positive personal trainer, who's also a friend of mine. The next one was a kid playing with a chicken. Specifically, it was a rooster. The next post was a kitchen gadget. Next post was a funny post about rainbow washing. And the office. It was a scene from you. Anyone knows the office is a scene from the office where Michael is teaching about diversity. And he, what's that gay guy's name? I can't remember his name. Anyway, there's one of the people in the office is gay. And so he says, Come up here, gay person, I'll show you how diverse I am. And he forces himself onto the person and makes him kiss him. And, but it's like really slow. And they're both like, gay guys like, pulling his neck back. Like, don't kiss me. And then Michael is like, I'm gonna kiss you and show you how brave I am. I'm not a homophobe. And yet anyway, this post was like, That's companies, you know, Rainbow washing and the company's unlikable and then the

Unknown Speaker 21:09

the gay guy getting kissed was US consuming the the post. Next post was a black joy post. So it was a post about black people doing gymnastics and having fun. Next one was a great ready with me post which was, you know, a fat black person trying on clothes. Next post was about guns, banning guns. Next was another anti diet dietitian, then we have a funny post about a family with a setting as a family barbecue and someone gets on an ATV, and crushes into the barbecue. And next one, a fat cat meme. And finally, squishing jelly with spikes really satisfying contents. So all of this stuff, and it's actually less I think that's like 12 or 13. I said all supports my mental health a little bit of fun, a little bit of politics, joy, squishing blah, blah, blah, good. Right? So is that what your social media is looking like? Something like that? If, if not, how can we change it up? And and what a lot of people do is they're like, Hi, great. I'm gonna change up and then go and follow. Like, this is what people do. They'll go follow people, they'll don't follow just like three accounts. And then you say how many people are you following on Instagram? And they'll be like, 3000. And then you're like, Okay, so those three accounts aren't going to be a drop in the bucket, you know. And the three counts that they follow a normally small fat people who were very conventionally attractive, you know, and so it's like, oh, isn't really gonna help, you know. So you just have to go balls to the wall, you know, and I say to people, just go and see who, someone who likes, go and see who they follow, go and check out who I follow, if you don't mind. Also seeing being exposed to pimple popping videos, satisfying, you know, like, ASMR stuff, and probably some gross medical things. That, and also, then you've got all of the other you know, cool, interesting content. What I mean, for me, if you asked me people probably was interesting, too. Yeah, so you can just go and just go, follow, follow, follow, follow, that's a really good way just to go like blast. And so it makes a message of, this is what humans look like. It like normalized. And also this is what human looks humans look like who are, who are joyful, who are successful, who are happy, who, who are in love, who have a full range of human emotions, because a lot of times when we see people with marginalized identities being portrayed, it's almost always not always but mostly tropes, right? The angry the angry black woman, the sad sack fatty the inspiration porn disabled person, you know. And so you can learn just from from from seeing these, these accounts, that human diversity is normal, because really, and complex because most of what we're seeing in the feeds is, is just a load of like diet recipes. People with aspirational bodies that you might want to look like, all that type of stuff, or people who just just don't make me make us feel good. I mean, I'm so ruthless with ruthless ruthless with that shit, if I give people two chances. So if I say posted on my air. I'll give them a pass. The second post that makes me go, they're getting muted, or blocked depending on depending on if they were like an actual friend because I don't want to have an awkward conversation with someone. Like my uncle or aunt it was. I mean, why did you block me on Instagram? Gumby welcome with that. But yeah, so what else? Things like what shows that you're watching? And I mean, don't feel guilty for watching. You know, shit, silly, trashy type shows. If they blink bring you pleasure and fucking go for it. But notice if the if you feel triggered by it. And I know what is it that show love Island?

Unknown Speaker 25:46

British show right? And it's on every single night. Every single night watching, I'm guessing it's an hour, an hour of content with really normative bodies. That's going to have an effect. So I'm not saying you can't watch love Island. I'm saying how about we also add in something that's good, you know, so it could be that you're watching Love Island. And while you're watching Love island because we have to be doing two things at the same time. Am I right? Yes. Me on on the Instagrams and being on love Island. And then also going and following some some, you know, people who don't have thin white bodies, or adding a show which has diverse bodies in go and go and watch that someone what is it called again? Someone, somebody somewhere? Or, you know, if you're like me, what I'm doing right now is I am binging on 90 days fiance. Happily ever after question mark. And I swear, how many hours is in a series? It feels like there's like 75 hours in a series? And it's like, am I ever going to get to the conclusion of this. But also, I really want to watch what happens because it's just so scandalous. But he's like taking up my whole life to watch a whole season of something. Because it's long, right? Versus British TV. It's like six episodes, and you're done. And you're like, Yeah, that was you know, but sometimes you do want a little bit longer. Anyway. So if I, if, for example, 90 day fiance was a trade show that I found triggering, I might maybe say, Okay, well, I'm going to going to watch three episodes tonight. And then maybe I'm going to do something, I'll put something in my brain watch something, look at something which is fat positive, or just not, you know, scratch my bum or whatever. Because it's not as helpful for me, but it does bring me a certain level of joy. You might say, You know what, this is just fucking me up watching Love Island every single night is fucking me up. And it might be that you just have to just not watch it for a while. Maybe in you know, six months time you feel a little bit better. And you can try again, you know? Or maybe not. Like, I personally wouldn't watch love Island, even though I know that I'd like it. Just because it's a lot of normative bodies a lot over a long period of time. So it's just quite risky for me, you know, and I do this for a job, right. And if someone like me, can see that, that is a risk. It might not be for you. But I just want to point it out that that could be different. So I would say here's another challenge, if you want to if you're curious if you're curious, do an evening or two when you're watching TV, and just count the number of normative bodies. So that's thin, white, young, not disabled. If it's men, like muscular, sis straight, so how many people do you see who fit those standards? Those Those have those privileges? And how many fat people do you see how many wheelchair users or or mobility aid users? How many trans or queer folks how many black indigenous or people of color, how many neurodiverse people are depicted, etc, etc, etc. And I think you may be surprised by how many ticks you have in that thin white, etc, etc column and how little ticks you have in the other column. And me too, right because we just don't have that many shows with with diversity. So yeah, who do you spend time with how many of these people are fat positive anti diet so you're free friends, your family, your colleagues, we are so influenced by the people that we spend time with. And it's so hard not to adopt that group think, and not to want to be accepted by joining in, when they're talking about diet stuff, or anti fat stuff. It's so hard not to, even if you're not joining in, to, in the back of your mind be like, Okay, well, this group of people, they're not on board with my thinking, even though I might not even told them what I think. And so maybe my thinking is wrong. Maybe me exploring this is wrong.

Unknown Speaker 30:43

So do you have anyone that you're, you're, that is kind of like an island in the middle of that. I mean, you might have everyone in your life, that's anti diet. For me, I have lots of people on the outskirts, say, for example, neighbors, you know, the people that I see at the dog park, people who, you know, maybe I don't really know their names, and I don't know their politics in regards to anti diet, whatever. If I found out that they were pro diet and hated fat people, then I probably wouldn't be able to talk to them, because I'd be like, fuck you. But those people could theoretically be anti diet, and I just, I mean, pro or pro or anti diet, I just don't know. Because, you know, you're like, Oh, look at your dog. Oh, it's so cute. Look at this citizen, fluffy, blah, blah, blah. And you just don't talk about that. Sometimes you might, but so I might have people who are pro diet and all that type of stuff in my life. But the people with relationships, the people who I've got meaningful relationships with in my life, absolutely. There is not there's not one person who is not pro fat. Anti diet everyone is the has the same politics as me. And so many, cuz it's just like a for me, it's like a fundamental it's fundamental, basic human rights stuff, right? And not to saying not to say that I would never be friends with someone who hates fat people. But they would be they'd have to be changing their mind real quick. You don't I mean, I couldn't be friends with someone who was like fat people who fucking disgusting. I never want to be fat. Like, I could not do that. Because it just goes against my values. It goes against my values, my core, like core values of, you know, respecting other people and all that type of jazz. Anyway, so how much are you surrounded by people who are like, Oh, I don't want to be fat. Oh, I want to go on a diet, all that type of stuff. And by the way, I'm just gonna ask him the question just so that you can see. And then we can talk about what to do with those people, right? Because it's hard. It's Hey, H A R D. Hard. Because I mean, shit. There's so many reads like, what are you going to do just blow up your life because these people are, are, are far phobes you just want to say fuck you all and then you know, have no connections and just die. And it's not realistic, right? But it's, you know, just being aware of it is a really good stuff. Some of the questions before we get into like the kind of the core of what we're talking about. Where do you live? What types of bodies do you see on the street? Or at work? What's in your closet? Is it a bunch of things that don't fit? Does that make you feel good? Clothes? It's you know, covered in shit stains and holes, or you know, is it you know, things that you like, Oh, I feel okay in that. Or even maybe, oh, I feel good in that. I know that's not acceptable for a lot of people. But what are you feeling when you open your closet? What are you spending your money on? you spending your money on subscriptions to things that don't make you feel good? Like that gym down the road that advertises how much how many calories you're burning, if you go in there? That's, that's me. There's a gym on my street, outside in huge letters saying you're gonna burn 600 million calories. If you come in here and breathe the air for 12 seconds. I'm like, Well, how the fuck can you say that? Obviously I'm exaggerating. That's not what they say. But it's just wise. How can they say that people are going to burn X amount of calories and why? Why What are I know why but I'm like, Why would I care? rubber, I don't care about that. Why not have a sign saying you're gonna come in here and we're gonna have so much fucking fun? Shit, man, I'd be in there. But no, I see them doing these these wild workouts, because I want to burn calories, presumably to be thin. And I'm just letting obey me my name. So, yeah, I don't give them my money at all. Okay, so I have a post on the Instagrams that I posted this week, which is how to protect yourself from fat phobia. And so this is what we're going to do if we are surrounded by fat phobe and fat folks. And fat phobia is every

Unknown Speaker 35:38

route. And by the way, you know, I mentioned like everyone who I'm having, you know, genuine connections with in my life are fat positive. It's taken years. It's taken years. And it's only a kind of not, I'd say new, newish thing in the last maybe four years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And before I would have had, because for many different reasons that we're going to discuss, I would have had people who don't have the same beliefs as me and my life who had beliefs that will hurtful towards me. Because fat phobia is everywhere. Yeah, so. So what's a fatty got to do to protect themselves from this fucked up? fat phobic society. Something that I teach is called remove, reduce and protect. So the gold star is can you remove that source of fatphobia from your life, if possible, and a big Asterix all over this, this is often not possible, possible. So if it's, you know, you've got in your closet, a goal outfit, even something like that, you know, I'll say get rid of it. But that might not even be that easy. Because you're holding on to it for many different reasons of you know, hope and, and it's really sad to get rid of that goal outfit. So maybe you can if you've got a goal outfit in your in your wardrobe that you see every day, that's like whispering to you, you're so fat, you're a piece of shit, you don't fit into me. What a loser. That, you know, that's what you think when you see that outfit. Maybe you can just put it in the back of a closet, maybe you can put it under your bed, put it in a box, and you know, put it in the basement or attic, or, you know, very in a hole or whatever, you don't have to get rid of it. But that's like the Goldstar if we can get rid of something great. And if that's an option, great, so they could be really supportive, could be really supportive for our mental health. Not always. And it's not always an option right now. And all could take time. So an example, your boss is a raging fat phobe, you probably don't want to send them an email email saying, Hey, I've decided I ain't take talking to you anymore. Because you're a bellend. Not if you want to keep your job anyway. But you can perhaps work towards finding a new job, if that's an option for you. You can work towards you know, documenting the the incidences of bigotry that you're experiencing. And then you know, presenting it to HR if that's an option, but there's lots of if, if if you know, and as well thinking about the power dynamics, what power dynamics are at play. So, here's another example. You are a single parent and you are struggling financially. And so you're living with your mum, and your mom is just not great. But she supports you financially, she helps you out with childcare as well. She is not reasonable. And so is it going to be helpful for you to say hey, Mum, can you not ever talk about diets again, knowing that say if your mum's volatile, knowing that your mum could say get out of my house, I'm not going to help you anymore. That's probably you know, not the best for you. And so, when I say like the gold star is remove big Asterix is not always the best decision for you. But as we move on in this journey, we'll start to notice that things do Shift and those sources of fatphobia are removed from our lives in ways that feel good to us. All we might decide, You know what?

Unknown Speaker 39:58

I'm just gonna put up with With grandma saying, I look fat because I only see her once a year, and she's probably going to be dead soon. You know, you might be you might say, you know, what? Is it worth it? Is it worth it? And you might just say no. But a lot of times, it is worth it if possible. So, if you're not removed, the next thing to do is reduce. So we've got removed, reduce and protect. So the next thing you do is reduce. So, for example, do you need to spend all day Sunday with your fat phobic family? How about you spend just three hours instead of six, the less exposure, the less chance that Uncle Barry is going to comment about how much weight you've put on? And go back to that TV show? TV shows that you'd like to watch? Would it be helpful for your mental health to reduce how long you spend watching, even temporarily. So what can we do is to redo to reduce exposure. Now protect. So sometimes, neither of those is possible. If we go back to the work example, if you have to work, nine to five sitting next to Susan, who has a diet culture and fat phobia, vortexing, the best thing that you can do is try to protect yourself from her. If there's nothing else that you can do, you can't say to your boss, shut up, whatever. You know, Susan's being a bell and again. And you know, Susan's telling you all about her new diet, where you put chili peppers up your bum and snow dust. Can you be browsing fat positive content while she does that? Can you put earphones in for a very important call that you're getting? Can you incorporate, reduce and protect together? So can you step away from your desk when Susan's like really getting on your flaps? You've like are Susan, I just need to go and do a poo. So I'll see you in a minute. Susan, you're talking about this new Daya gray shirt. Absolutely, then. Yeah, so it could be that you're you putting on your on your earphones and you start listening to an episode of First party podcast. It could be that you are in a Facebook group. And you go and make a post saying you never guess what Susan is sat here talking about this. And it just really is fucking getting on my tits. So remove reduced protect. And most of what we're doing is protecting because weight bias is systemic, right? Like an example, an example of going to the doctor's, we cannot control. Even if we say before we go and we repeat to the doctor, Hey, don't talk about wait. We can't control what that person does. And where we've made the decision to go and expose ourselves to potentially life endangering fatphobia. And they're going to be fat phobic anyway, not always. But you know, that's the risk. So what we can do is to do a little bit of protection, self care, you know, do what we can. When we do have, you know, all the stars align, and we can can do reduce and remove. And that's great. So I'm going to talk about boundaries. Now. This could be how we remove people from my life, and maybe we don't, who knows? I'm not saying that boundaries means that you're going to cut people from your life. But sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't. And boundaries really, I talk about boundaries a lot. And they really are an act of love. And I think about when I was not a boundary person. I was just like, in my head all the time being like, oh, that person is such a dickhead. I can't believe they did that or said that and bla bla bla bla and I can't believe that they think that's appropriate. I can't believe that there were 20 minutes late and they didn't even say sorry, I hate them so much. You know, and I would never say hey,

Unknown Speaker 44:18

hey, I'm not cool with you being 20 minutes late for our lunch or whatever. Because I'd be terrified that they'd be like, Okay, well fuck you. I never want to be your friend again. And then I'll be like sad because you have to be courageous to say hey, that thing doesn't feel good for me. And by not setting boundaries I was making it so people could not get close to me they had no chance they I'm they're saying a hi nice. So nice to see you in my head thinking fucking idiots. 20 minutes late, and they think they're building a nice relationship with me and I'm like secretly hating them. It's if they had that gift of me saying hey, that really He actually bothers me that you're 20 minutes late. Then they could either adjust their behavior or whatever, we can come up with some solution. Or they could just be like, I'm not bothered, I'm going to be 20 minutes late. And I can choose to do that with that what I want, you know, whether that be saying, Okay, well, fine, I like you're not enough. And it's not that big of a deal to me, or, or actually, it is a big deal to me, and I'm not really into it. So not everyone can set boundaries, in regards to there being a power imbalance, like we talked about before, nor is it always appropriate. You know, I've given the examples before of that girl slapping me at that party, because she thought it was a great way to display what the phrase bitch slap meant. And then she saw me again in the street and slapped my bum. And that, in that second time, I decided not to reinforce my boundary, because I thought you're dead to me, I'm never gonna see you again, right? Sometimes, there's no, there's no way to get out of setting a boundary. So in that same example, girl slaps me at party. And immediately, I had to say, Do not ever do that to me again, because it was so egregious. So yeah, so just like a big caveat. And if you don't set boundaries, please, you're not? You're not less than for not setting boundaries. It is so hard. Why do we have to be? Why do we have to be good at communicating with other people? Why? Why can't they just read our minds? Come on now. And people have known you, potentially for years, as someone who loves a better diet, or who loves talking about how, you know, they want to lose weight and not be fat and Bella. And so this is this is a process if you want to say to people, Hey, can we not talk about diet stuff anymore? It's, it's gonna maybe be a shock for people and be difficult. And so this is what I say this is the way that I like to approach it is saying, Can you help me with something? So this is for people who you care about, who you want a relationship with? Who you want to be open and honest with? When you set boundaries, that's not always the case. Right? It could be just some, you know, it could just be Susan at work. And you're like, Susan, Listen, can you not talk about that anymore? But when it's someone that I care about, I'll say, Hey, I'm wondering, can I help you help with help on something? And they'll say, yes. You know, when someone says, Can I have your help? Yes. Oh, my goodness, I would love to help. I'm, I'm doing this thing where I'm unlearning all of the kind of unhelpful fatphobia and diet stuff that I've learned, I've realized that it's really affecting my mental health. And what I've recognized is that when I hear people talking about food, or dieting, or, or their way, is really triggering for me. So I'm wondering if, if you can, if I can get your help, and you can avoid talking about those things while I'm around. That's my favorite go to have, you know, Hey, can I help? Can Can you Can I get some help? And so you're not saying, Hey, listen up here, you are a GIANT TURD. And you are a bad person, because you talk about diets, which is people might hear you say that anyway, even if you don't say that. And I always thought that saying to someone, Hey, can you not do that meant that they were probably going to flip a table? They will probably going to be like, What the fuck? Who do you think you are? To ask me? Like, I would be so like, or if they didn't say that. They'd be leaving going like, you're right. Never going to do that. Who do they think? You know, that type of thing. But guess what?

Unknown Speaker 49:16

People were just like, Oh, okay. Not everyone. But let's say a good 95% People are like, Oh, okay. Can you tell me more about that? And I'm like, oh, because I really thought that they were going to be like, Fuck you, you're dead to me. And the more that I practiced it, the more I was like, oh, people, a lot of them are actually very kind. And a lot of them want to do good by me. Wow, that's really nice to hear. Wow, we can strengthen our relationship. Wow, we have a really good relationship now. Whereas before I secretly hated them, because they were doing normal things. You know, they didn't know bothered me. So, here's the thing, you'll do that first thing, and then you're like, how was fucking hard, but it went? Well, you know, they're probably never going to say diet Kotori things again, and of course, the next time you see them, they would have forgotten that conversation, maybe not forgotten it, but it will, they'll just slip up. No fault of their own. Well, you know, whatever, else slip up. Same with me with my pronouns, right? The people will just slip up. The, the way they react when they what you need to do, and the way they react, when they slip up is a really good indicator of who they are. And so you just taking the stance of how when someone gets my pronouns wrong, I will just say, Oh, they, or I'll just say, oh, yeah, and non binary, something like that. I'll just say just simple as that, no, kind of like, hey, that really Brotherbrother unless they're being really, you know, rude about it. And it's just not a big deal. So you could say someone's like, Oh, my God, have you tried this new diet? And you're like, Oh, hey, you remember, I'm not talking about diets? And they will? Oh, yeah. Because remember, they might have known you for years as someone who likes talking about diets. So it's going to take time for them to get used to it. And so you might have to do this a few times. It's up to you, if you want to do it at all, or how long you want to do it for. You might say, You know what? I'm just gonna keep doing it until they get it because there's the, they're a big part of my life, and I'm just gonna keep helping them understand until they get it. It could be that you know, that you're like, Okay, well, shit, man, I've seen this person, five times. Now, every single time I've had to say this, I'm going to reduce the amount of contact with them. Or I might even choose to remove them from my life eventually, maybe? Who knows. So how is this life played out for me in real life. An example of someone who I chose to remove from my life is someone I gave many chances to, and there are a core core member of my family. And when it became clear that they had no intention of not being a bigot, that's when I said that's, you know, unfortunately, that's the end of our relationship. And, and so my tolerance level was, you know, a certain amount, but then when they were like, I don't care about hurting your feelings, then I was like, Okay, well, there's nothing to work with there. So see you later. And that happens to be three, three years ago. So it's been so nice, not having them in my life. Because they just weren't very good. They didn't care about it, they didn't care about my feelings or wanting to be close to me, they cared about their own beliefs. Right. And, and that was difficult. And that was years and years and years in the making, because there's lots of different issues at play, right? Now, let's think of someone like my mum, who had spent her whole life in diet culture and fatphobia. It took time, and many times me saying, hey, sometimes it took longer, because we don't you know, she lives in Ireland, and I'm here in Vancouver, and I maybe wouldn't see her and, you know, speak to her on the phone long enough for it to come up. But then when I would see her in person, it would be triggered more, because, you know, maybe she'd see me eating food. Or maybe she'd see me wearing clothes. And then that's where the opportunities where she might say things. And so it took a while and now she is great. She is

Unknown Speaker 54:00

you know how people say all the time, well, I can't change my mum, I can't change my granddad. They're old. And I'm like, what the, that's got nothing to do with anything to people who are older not have capacity for kindness, to learn things? I don't think so I think that's kind of ages, ages to suggest that just because someone has, you know, spent seven decades in this thing that they have no capacity to change. They do. Yes, it's going to be harder. But there are many people who are older, who are on the frontlines of of changing the way that we think about identity and advocating for others. So kind of just writing off your parents or your grandparents because they're old, and they won't get it, I don't think is very fair to them. And if they're using that excuse of I'm old I don't get it. Well, sorry. Sorry, mom. There's lots of people who do get it. And you know, my mom's one of the examples, my mom's 70. Right? So, yeah, there's that there's a lady that I talked to I look at her a dog, sometimes she's 70. She's the most, she's so forward thinking, like, and she's like, how can people think like this? And that, and I'm like, Yeah, right. So, and there's young people who are the opposite, who will have really fucked up views. So I really don't think age has got a huge amount to play with it. And I don't think it's appropriate to just give older people a pass because of their age. And also recognizing, there could be many cultural differences that make it more difficult, right, because, you know, it could be the you don't never talk back to your elders in your culture or your community. And that that is really just a no go. And that's where it comes with a big Asterix again, of it might not always be appropriate or the best time because say, if you wanted to set a boundary with, uh, you know, your auntie, or whatever, and if you did that, it would mean that your mum would disown you, and you you know, everyone in your family would be talking about you? And did it? Uh, is that going to be supporting your mental health? Probably, maybe not, you know, so maybe it is better for your mental health. To see auntie who says, Oh, look how fat you are. And then go and be like, Oh, thanks for RTC later, and go listen to you know, fat positive podcast, go read fat positive book, Nazi Auntie as much, you know. So all of this stuff is a beer kind of. But who knows? Who knows? And the other thing is with boundaries, sometimes you have you can have really rigid boundaries and say no, absolutely not. Someone does this. And that is a hard kind of like, No, I'm not into it. And sometimes you can have really rigid boundaries that can soften sometimes, because for many different reasons. And so you can have more flexible boundaries. And here's the thing, though, is I think, if we're going to be setting boundaries, if we can, not consistently not stick to them, you know, so So if you say, Hey, listen, Mum, if you talk about diets, I'm gonna have to leave. And then mum talks about diets, and you don't ever leave, then I think that it's counterintuitive to even say, the boundary in the first place. Because what mum is hearing is that

Unknown Speaker 57:49

they're not serious when they say this, they're not serious. And so I'm never going to take them seriously. In fact, I can just, you know, walk all over that boundary, because it's just, it's just a, it's just a wish and a hope. versus going to, you're going to follow through with it. But then again, something might come up where you can't, for whatever reason, so. So again, like big caveat with that, whatever you do to try and survive fat phobia is great. Whatever that looks like, if you're, if you're a fat person, and you are alive, and you you've survived fatphobia for this long, is you've done it, right, you're doing it. And there are options that we can explore, which might make it even better, that might be even more helpful. And there is always going to be times where you're like, right, okay, next time someone says this, I'm going to say, you know, studies show this and blah, blah, blah, and then it happens. And you're like, Oh, hi, yeah, I would love to know more about your diet, because you're in the moment, and then all of a sudden, all our information that you've got in your brain is you know, just flying off somewhere else because you're in a moment of panic, and all you can do is just nod and agree. And that's fine, too. Really, so don't don't be getting down on yourself if that's what you have to do. And also you don't have to be verbally or written. Resisting in that way you can resist fat phobia and diet culture in many ways. Example, you're out of your friends. They're all like, Oh my I'm going to have a salad. You're at dinner. I'm just going to have a salad. Oh, I couldn't possibly eat anything else worse. Yeah. Oh my god, me too. I'm so greedy today. i i I looked at some sugar and the osmosis of the sugar went into my brain and I'm just sure I've put on loads of weight because of it. Yes, the other friends is like, oh my god, yeah, all I want is just some carrots. And you could say nothing. And be like, yeah, actually, I'll have some, some dinner, you know, I'll have something was not a salad. And that can be in incredible, that could be so brave in the face of that. Or you could just not say anything, not engage. That too, is incredible. And I think about, you know, like, the, the often the ways that fat people, you know, the kind of like, the common things that people do, when they're learning to accept their bodies, you know, wear a bikini, or, you know, eat donuts, or whatever. And I feel like, you know, it's resistance, right, that's what I see that as a as an act of resistance. I'm going to do this thing anyway, even though you are shaming me indirectly, because you're not saying, Oh, you're so fat, and you shouldn't eat a salad, I'm not going to accept that shame. And so that could be what you're doing. And it could be that you're not even doing it like in front of your friends, you go home and, you know, you order the salad, then because you're under so much pressure to only a salad. And then you go home, and allow yourself to eat what you really want it to eat. You know, it doesn't have to be in front of people. It could be something that you do on your own. And that is incredible to anyway that you can resist. And you don't have to resist, by the way, because it's not safe. A lot of times it's not safe. Sometimes you have to play along, you know, and an example is going to the doctors and they say hey, you need to do this and that and or we're not going to give you health care. And you could just be like, yeah, absolutely. You might even you might even, you know, go on a diet because you have to because the doctor says so because they're going to deny health care to you unless you do this thing. You might have to put your act of resistance in that could be just be like, You know what, I'm not going to, I'm going to work to not internalize all of this shame that this doctor is trying to give me. So share. Do you remember I don't know if you remember I just saw this recently on Facebook and update from there was a trigger warning. I'm going to talk about medical fat phobia. an egregious case and don't worry, no one died. Coming up with it. Just if that doesn't feel good, skip forward five minutes.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:37

Or towards the end of the episode. There was a case like a it feels like it was about a year ago, there was a video of this girl. And she says I just got at the doctor's and she was sobbing. She was really crying. And the doctor had said to her she had been really sick, she has not been able to eat anything because she'd been really sick, couldn't keep anything down. And she'd lost lots of weight. She was still fat though. And the doctor says it's probably a good thing that you've not been able to eat anything because you've lost weight. And so she went out into her car. And then she went actually went back into the doctor's surgery and confronted the guy and said that was fucked up. And he said sorry, you can't handle my jokes. Anyway, she posted that video on I think originally Tik Tok and then also Instagram. It blew up and lots of people were like, you deserve care go for it's complete please keep going to find find another doctor. She did. She resisted. She took that shame and said it's not for me. went to another doctor. Turns out she had stage three no feels bowel cancer. She had cancer basically stage three because it was to do with her stomach is one of the issues was see her she had surgery and she's she's recovering.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:17

If that should never have happened, it happens all the time. There are so many deaths at the hands of doctors who are fat phobic. She was able to resist because she posted that video and got lots of support. She probably got a lot of hate as well, obviously. And for whatever reason she was able to get another doctor and her persistence saved her life. So yeah, I don't know why I'm I'm telling this story, but I just saw that yesterday and I was like, oh shit, I remember her and, and oh, and that's what happened. She had fucking cancer. So yeah, if you can, if you can show resistance in any way. And it could have been that, that in that first doctor, she just said, yeah, oh, yeah, it is a good thing that I'm thinking now. Can you do some tests on me, please? You know, and that could have been the outcome. And then the tests were done. And she she could they could discover what was wrong with her. Obviously, that didn't happen, but in no way is it her fault or totally, you know, in case anyone is coming across, like she should have done this. You know, she should never have had to experience that ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. If she had a thin body, she would have had that diagnosed ages before because she'd been suffering for I think she said, five to seven years, because she switched something about early 20s. And she said she was 27. And yeah, so she would have been suffering for years. If a thin person had lost a lot of weight, and someone's and they said, Oh, I'm not I'm losing loads of weight. I can't eat. The doctor would say sounds like something is not right. For that person. They say good. It's probably a good thing. Yeah, so resistance could be life saving for for many people. And I just you know, big big breath air because it's a nice feeling kinda feeling kind of a lot that you know, knowing that that type of stuff. And also you deserve you deserve we all deserve to live in an environment where we are free from stigma, bigotry, marginalization, all of that stuff. You deserve to be able to watch Patty cakes and dumpling and somebody somewhere and just have live a happy family life without having to come across all of this bullshit but it's not where we're at right now. Unfortunately. Oh, ending on such a shit note. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, so anyway, well, if you if you want to learn more about all of this stuff dealing with this stuff, so I have faced by the Academy I am I've not revealed this to anyone yet but I will be changing the way that I do First Flight Academy. So the next time I launch First Flight Academy it will be as a self study program and so it's going to be 50% off because it's going to be self study so all the materials are there and so it means you don't get calls with me. But you get everything and all of the previous calls like few years of calls in there so yeah, so it's good so because of that it's going to be 50% off so that's coming up I'll let you know when that happens. I'm not sure when yet but it's in my brain to do that. Yeah, and I hope you have an landline the rest of your day and I will see you in a while alligator remember to stay first fatty Good boy

Unknown Speaker 1:08:38

thanks for listening to the episode and if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to fears fatti Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body, then go to first fatty.com forward slash waitlist again that is fierce fatty.com forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first party Academy my signature program opens.