Episode 151 Transcript

Read the transcript alongside the audio.

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You're listening to the Fierce Fatty Podcast Episode 151, The Whale: Fatphobic Misery P*rn.

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Hello, welcome to this podcast episode. I'm your host, Vinny Welsby pronounces a them I am going to be talking about the movie that a whale today. And so because of that huge trigger warnings on a lot of really awful fatphobia and talking about those depictions of fat bodies brief mention of eating disorders talking about food. Yeah, it's it's the feeling of today. So if you're not feeling like you want to hear that stuff today, then come back next episode. But yeah, the the film came out this week, a few days ago. And so we've got some reviews that have come out. Want to talk about those? And also the depiction of fatness, in fatness and those who are, who don't leave their homes for whatever reason, whether that's acrophobia or in accessibility, disability, etc. In North America, I've heard the fate freeze shut in. But I think that that is probably stigmatizing. So I'm just going to say people who stay in their stay in their homes. But the idea of the way that fatness is depicted as these fat people are in their homes, and don't leave, and how in the whale, and in a couple of other instances, I'm going to give you the way that that is depicted in the work the reasons why that isn't so great. Obviously, we love fat representation. But fortunately, we've got a lot of fat suits and stuff. So yeah, before we get started, I want you to give you a little bit of joy, a little bit of a little bit of happiness. But before I do that, a reminder about the vacation to the Dominican Republic. If you have any questions, let me know this affairs, but your vacation, we have five earlybird spots left now. So if you want to get an early bird spot, which is $100 cheaper, then go to the link in the show notes or go anywhere you can find me there'll be a link somewhere for our Dominican Republic fat vacation. But yeah, the thing that I was like, Oh, isn't it a joy is there's an artist on the social medias who sings songs. And I want you to tell you about her. Her name is mother moon, and you can find mother moon on Spotify. And I guess other places that music, music lives. And this is where it is one of her songs you might have heard of it. And it goes. I think it's called I love my body.

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I love my body from my head to my toes. I love my face, my eyes, my mouth, my nose. I love the way I look when I look in the mirror. I stand a little closer just to see a little clearer. I hope you do too. You're worthy of your own love. It is true. So what do we say? We tell ourselves we love us every day.

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So you might have heard that song. She's got a couple of another one which is about loving your belly and just so cute like so if you've got kids or if you're like me and don't have find it healing and nice and cute. It was actually one of my siblings birthdays this week and I did a little recording of me singing that song to her. And it's she liked it. So yeah, Mother moon on the Instagrams. I'll link to do that in the show notes, show notes. physically.com, forward slash 1501. Mother moon, what else I was going to do? And then links to everything else that we're talking about today in shownotes. So I want to read a few pieces, people's initial reactions to the whale. I was trying to find a pirated copy because I was like, not going into the movies and giving this film money my money, because I as I was paying me to write an article or whatever, no, no, I can't I feel I can't I can't do it. And to be seen in the cinema watching the way I just can't and to see you know why people in their being like, so moving how disgusting that people are. Yeah, so I was trying to find a pirated copy, but couldn't find one because I think it's because it's new only a few days ago. And I could probably if I if I kept looking, I could probably find it. But it's probably a good thing that I didn't because I I bought a copy of What's Eating Gilbert Grape, which is another movie that I want to mention today. And I sped watch that and going through the research for today, I noticed that I was like, Oh, I'm internalizing fat bias because I was about to record the podcast, I'd been working on this and it was in the zone, you know, the zone where you just just so hyper focused and you're like, Oh, my God, I really need to do a wee but you're like, No, I just 10 more minutes, have more minutes, and you'll just eventually like, Okay, fine. You don't have to have to get up because I'm going to pace myself. So you know, the zone. And then I was like, Okay, well, I've done it now. I'll just bust out the episode. And then I was like, oh, no, actually, I'm really hungry. I should eat some lunch. And then

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my brain was like, just don't. And I was, I was like, Yeah, you know,

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I know what I mean. You know, it's just so I can't be bothered to make food. And then the other side of my brain was like, it's self care,

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make some lunch, you're really

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hungry. You know, what was coming up was a lot of the stuff. That the way that fatness is depicted. In the shows, obviously, there's a lot of stuff around food. And even someone like me, who has done so many years of work on that, how quickly that that kind of seeped into my brain. And I think the difference now is that I'm very easily able to go should I actually not eat lunch? Because I'm one of these depictions. And I shouldn't because I'm not allowed to and did it? Uh, or should I? Or should I just nourish myself and you know, self care, and you know, just basic things of needing to be alive? Yes, I should do that. But I really made me think about how for others who are maybe newer on their journey or anyone else with a human brain, who lives in a bigger body or even know how all of this stuff is directly harmful to us. And of course, everyone else like their mental health might be in different places. And it might be more harmful to others and less and maybe not even harmful to serve to some folks but it just it was you know, so interesting. How do we know when we know this stuff is harmful and seeing it in action in my beautiful brain? I was like, No, I'm gonna eat some fucking lunch then do the podcast and it's okay if the sunsets during the recording the podcast, because you know, it's the winter and sunsets just early anyway. So yeah, all that to say blobby blue Bloop, trigger warning and also Yeah, if you're feeling like shit afterwards, listening to this stuff or feeling angry or whatever. Give yourself some self care. So, the first thing that I want to quote from is a piece called the exhausting fatphobia of the whale by Victoria eidl. And Victoria says, Brendan freezes apparently pressed up this apparently this whole thing of Brendan Fraser has been saying that everyone's been pronouncing his name incorrectly for many years. And I was like, really? Freezer. How are you pronouncing freezer wrong? And apparently people call him call him phrase year. And I was like, Look at me. Hey, I'm one of the people that has correctly pronounced it correctly because it's spelt Fraser right. So anyway, if you're pronouncing it freeze year, like it's got an eye in there. It's actually Fraser. So anyway, Brendan Fraser, come back film, The whale has made tons of headlines thanks to people's excitement overseeing his return to screens. He's received emotional standing emotions at film festivals reunited reunited with former co stars. They've been candid about his life and career journey during his press tour. And yet, the whale released by age 24 and directed by Darren Aronofsky, is very bad. In the movie freezer plays Charlie, a gay fat man who is estranged from his teenage daughter, and supports himself by teaching writing classes over zoom. He loves writing and reading though we never actually see him do any. So that first paragraph that have left that last line, we never actually see him do any, is the first issue with these types of films, these fat phobic misery porn films is it paints that characters in a very two dimensional way, fat people who stay in their homes, seemingly, their sole purpose is to eat food, eat lots of food, and then maybe have some what others perceive as undignified pursuits, like watching daytime TV, or masturbating or stockpiling food, right? That is what we know about fat folks. And especially fat folks who live in their homes and for whatever reason due to disability or mental health issues, or whatever it is, right, that's that's the character food and something you know, their personality is something else like something intellectual right? Even though this with the character Charlie is a teacher clearly knows enough to be a teacher yet. He doesn't pursue that himself. Apparently, you know, his life is masturbating and eating food and eating food in a really gratuitous way. Right. The something that I noticed was when I was on that TV show The O word. The way they portrayed the fat folks who liked being fat with food and versus the fat folks who didn't like being fat is that they put they we all would eat the exact same thing right? And they would show me as a fat person who likes being fat eating the quote unquote unhealthy food and then you would see the good fatties you know, drinking a glass of water eating a salad even though I'd really in the same dinner with a salad but they wouldn't wouldn't show that right. And that is often almost exclusively the way that fat people are portrayed with food is eating food that is perceived as unhealthy or bad in some way and also becoming animalistic around that food becoming overcome with desire for the food that all awareness of their surrounding is is gone because they're just gobbling it down so quickly in Grease dripping down their face and stains on their clothes and and that is what is happening in the whale. Charlie is eating I mean, a bucket of chicken. Could you get any more fat phobic trophy bucket of chicken and eating food feverishly eating foods so quickly that he chokes? So, to me, that sounds like Charlie might have an eating disorder. Doesn't that sound as listeners to the show if you haven't listened to the show? And that sound like maybe Charlie has something going on some something, you know, disordered eating behaviors, eating disorder, or perhaps, you know, if it's not a problem for him, perhaps that's just, you know, the way he eats. And it's not an issue for him. But why is it that that is just eating like that is framed as an exclusively fat, quote problem. Versus just fat people just eating food the way that everyone eats food. And that, that, that that means to say that sometimes fat people eat food in that way. I mean, it's a thing, you know, obviously amped up for for the camera, it can because fat people can have eating disorders and and think people can have eating disorders and eat food in that way. And also, the majority of fat people don't have eating disorders because the majority of humans don't have eating disorders and eat exactly like thin people, but that doesn't make entertainments does it it doesn't make an entertaining movie if you just saw Charlie in the whale, you know, having a nice you know, chicken salad with some fair freshly break bread. That wouldn't be that wouldn't satisfy the thin viewer to say few I'm not going to be in the same predicament as Charlie because I don't eat the same way he does I'm not you know I don't have grease dribbling down my my face and I'm not walking around in stained clothes from the food that I'm eating. I'm not an animal. So it's that distancing. It's making fat people inhuman and a spectacle of law. Let's go look at this poor unfortunate soul. Let's continue from from Victoria's piece. Charlie calls himself disgusting multiple times, and the camera agrees with him. The viewer is invited to gawk at Charlie. Every time he rises from the couch. The music swells as if he was the literal whale of the movie's title rising above the waves. Charlie's apartment is depressing. His clothes are always sweaty and greasy, his hair is terrible. He has accessibility devices to help him get through his routine. But they are all jerry rigged and looked like they're falling apart. He's judged for using them at all. Every time Charlie yells or laughs or grunts or groans it turns into a coughing attack. Yeah. And that, again, speaks to the two dimensional characters that we see with fat folks. And when we have these stories of fat people portrayed by people who are not sharing the same identities and people will say well, Brendan Fraser he's fat. He's not the size of Charlie. Right, Charlie and the story is apparently 600 pounds. And that has never been Brendan Fraser's experience. He has not lived Charlie's life or he would not need to be wearing a fat suit. The original writer of the play that the book was based on he he was fatter in his younger younger life and then apparently lost weight. He too was never the size of Charlie he too, didn't live the life of Charlie he too was not disabled. He too was not you know living in his home and not not coming out. So, because this story is written by people and acted and and produced, directed by people who do not have that lived experience, they cannot portray fatness in its reality. And fatness in his reality is things like fat phobia and ableism and lack of good health care and discrimination and accessibility issues, all that type of stuff. And it's Julius and it you know, Fat people have wonderful lives and are happy and are smart and are interesting and all of the same things that the rest of humanity is. But that doesn't make good viewing, we are told by the director, that this is an act of empathy making by watching this film. Potentially it could be empathy making, if we had a character that wasn't framed in such a violent way, you know, wasn't framed as pitiful. That's exactly pitiful. Because of course, you know, there can be people that you pity but really, is that the full story to people and, and what what is it doing by continuing to present stories of fat people who are pitiful? Is that is that really? Is that fat liberation? Or is it the same old tired, boring trope that we have seen for ages? Because this is nothing new, right? This is nothing new. This is my 600 pound life but you know, with millions of dollars spent to make it into a film and that show is fucked up. So that was from Pop Sugar. Victoria

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Edo and we have

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something for us from Slant Magazine. fatphobia sinks. Darren Aronofsky, is drama by Mike Hanson. Mike Hanson is a thin, young white man, which was really interesting to see that he was able to pick out the fact that this was fucked up. Okay, so this is what Mark Hanson says for smart magazine. Throughout, Aronofsky invites us to gawk at Fraser's pathetic enhanced appearance as his character show showers, masturbates and precariously moves around his rundown Idaho apartment with the aid of a rickety Walker. When the man binges on meatball sandwiches or chocolate bars, it's shot and scored with the bombastic revulsion of a horror movie. But considering how Liberty eek so liberty is a cinematographer for the film. Considering how libertex Camera leering. Lee treats Charlie as an unsightly object of pity throughout, it's difficult to deny the films but phobia. Though it's more Kushner's is no less oppressive. Aronofsky may think he's presenting some kind of radically cathartic journey throughout the world. But all he's doing is bringing a hollow sense of dignity to his schematic brand of cinematic misery porn. Misery porn is by the way, the the genre of you know, people stories of overcut of experiencing, you know, hard things, hardship and terrible things. A lot of the books that I would have read in my younger years would be like people's experience of overcoming childhood abuse, and so that would be classed as misery porn and misery porn is not necessarily a bad thing or anything. It's when we're this you know, Misery porn in regards to look how miserable a fat person's life is. A fat person who has a potential eating disorder and potential mental health issues and mobility issues, and lack blacking connection with people like it's just untold, I think people it gives us not good. My favorite piece that I saw in response to the whale came from Roxane Gay Roxane Gay is the person who wrote bad feminist and other things. And I've got a link to the article because it's behind a paywall from the New York Times. If you ever go if you want to ever want to find some it behind a paywall, go to archive dot P haitch. And put the link in there. Archive dot P Each and then it will give you a screenshot of the article from whenever it was last archived on the web. Okay, so I'm gonna give you some quotes from the cruel spectacle of the whale Roxane Gay. It's a short it's a short piece, but I think you should go and read the whole thing. The whale Darren Aronofsky. His latest film is one you hope desperately will be seen by an audience audience that has the necessary cultural literacy, the empathy to watch the story and recognize that the onscreen portrayal of fatness bears little resemblance to those to the lived experience of fat people. It is a gratuitous self aggrandizing it is gratuitous self aggrandizing fiction at best. The disdain the filmmakers seem to have for the protagonist is constant and inescapable. For most of its to our runtime, the whale is emotionally devastating. Charlie's grief is a grief and an inability to find the will to live is utterly crushing. It is overwhelming and relentless, manipulative and pitiable. I suppose that's the point of this particular adaptation from sound hunters play of the same name. Okay, continuing on picking out picking out one of my favorite quotes here. Mr. Fraser brings pathos to the role, though I wish he was given better material more worthy of his talents, talent, his performance makes him a strong contender for all the major awards. And that's a shame, not because he doesn't deserve them, but because What's also been rewarded is such a demeaning portrayal of a fat man, we will hear about how brave Mr. Fraser is for taking on a role like this for wearing a fat suit for being willing to embody so many people's worst fears. Hollywood loves to reward actors who dare to take on roles that require them to abandon the good looks that enabled their careers. Yeah, and the thing is, like, Brendan Fraser, you know, all power to him. And, you know, what a great story that he's coming back. And he is in a bigger body now. And he's being embraced by Hollywood. If he had not had that, if he had that same body when he was younger, would he have even ever got a role? Nope. So it's his thin privilege has made him get to this point and in the first place, but, you know, I felt nothing but you know, good for him vibes. And it's unfortunate that he is not able to do speak up to fat phobia versus doing this. Anyway, continuing at points, I was reminded of Leaving Las Vegas, which is another film that films so it's really hard for me to watch that. And how Ben Sanderson played by Nicolas Cage is afforded a kind of dignity as he drinks himself to death. He is part of the world even if he even as he forces his way out of it. Charlie is not granted any such thing. The whale claims to have been told with care and grace, but it's just as exploitative, as any episode of TLC is my 600 pound life. In the opening scene, it isn't quite clear what is happening until everything comes into focus. Charlie is masturbating to porn drenched in sweat out of breath. It's unclear what will happen first, orgasm or death. The problem isn't that Charlie looks the way he does or struggles in his body. The problem is that the creators cannot hide their contempt. Anytime try, Charlie tries to satisfy an all too human urge. So many other creative choices feel unnecessary. In one scene Charlie in a fit of emotional pain, gorgeous himself on a food he can find, starting with a greasy pizza. Before long his face is slicked with grease and he has thrown open his refrigerator desperately. Desperate for anything to fill the yawning void of hurt from which he cannot escape. There is another scene in which he eats a bucket of fried chicken. And then there's his wardrobe tent like clothing threadbare, perpetually soaked in sweat the rolls of his stomach spilling over his size. The Walker he cannot move without always by his side, as he heaves himself up. Each time he needs to change locations. The way the whale is told reflects such a profound and pathetic dearth of imagination. At several points, my wife and I wanted to walk out of the screening, but we didn't want to see seem rude or oversensitive. So Roxanne was at a screening with the director. And she says, well in the article, she looked around and There was only about four people who was fat in the cinema and not a single fat person on stage afterwards when they did the q&a. I mean shit. I would have wanted to walk out too, and also wouldn't have wanted you to seem rude of or, or oversensitive. In the q&a after the screen in the director, Mr. Aronofsky said proudly that Charlie's story was told with empathy

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the whale in the end isn't the serious film it so desperately wants to be it's a carnival sideshow. Come look at the freak the movie beckons. That's it and as well, why, why I was like, at that Aronofsky saying it was told with empathy. And fat people have said, Excuse me, Darren, this is fat phobic. This is not empathetic. This is harmful and and not appreciated by the fat community. And in articles we've that's come out since in the last few days, he said, Didn't we talk about it is empathetic. I mean, if a marginalized group says, We don't like this, this is fucked up. You sit down and listen, even if you don't understand, even if you genuinely thought that you did an amazing job, and that you deeply admire that the group that you you're talking about or whatever, and your intentions were pure, lala land doesn't matter. Sit down and listen to the community that you are portraying. And you say that you are portraying in an empathetic way really, this is this is just like a basic, you know, one on one how to be a human. If someone says, This is not good from the community you're portraying, then you just have to say I fucked up. But for whatever reason, he can't do that. And this is really making me think about Sarki or Sarah Baartman, which was the she was the queen, Queen woman who was exhibited as a freak show carnival attraction in the 19th century, in in, in Europe, and was named the hot and top venous and because of her body size. And then after her death, her body was displayed in a museum and that is a she's black woman. And obviously this is racism, because obviously, this is extra exploitation and the dehumanization of, of black people. And I mean, this is in 17. She was born in 1789 and unsavoury was also displayed alongside animal and we think about the way that and by the way, she was she was that case I didn't I didn't mention that. But okay, so that wasn't wasn't explicit, but

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yeah, her her

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her body and personhood was that word again that a few people have used gawked gawked at and dehumanized this, this fatness, this blackness, this otherness, that that US thin white people could either feel pity for or discuss use it as a form of entertainment to say, or at least we're not like that. And the way it's being framed is not hey, look at this, this look at this diversity in, in humans. And isn't it beautiful and wonderful? And no, it's it's a freak show is and if you you know some of those, you know, there's modern freak shows where people embody it and are empowered by that word. And that's not what I'm talking about. We're talking about people who were Sarki was coerced into showing her her body and, you know, I wonder how much if any, Free Will was there. And, and I wonder, too, with shows like my 600 pound life, the coercion of of of that that show and the fact that presumably, those people get paid in my 600 pound life and being 600 pounds or thereabout is means it's difficult to get work. And so how much consent is in that storytelling? Probably not a lot. So we're thinking about this. Also, I'm thinking about other ways that fat people have been depicted in cinema in the same way that Brendan Fraser's character Charlie has been, and, and to two similar types of depictions of the person who is living primarily in their home and not not leaving, and has a big body. A very big body. The two things that I thought of was What's Eating Gilbert Grape. And seven. Remember the movies? You might not? So yeah, I remember seeing both of them as a younger person. No, both came out in the 90s. Right. 107 Come out, I think I think What's Eating Gilbert Grape was 94. Seven. Okay, so seven was 95. What's Eating Eating Gilbert Grape, and the portrayal of fatness and being homebound. In those those films were sweet, specially in What's Eating Gilbert Grape was that framing of compassion. But it's only when you look a little bit you just scratch the surface a little bit. And you can see that there is no compassion there. It is deeply cruel. So What's Eating Gilbert Grape? It's also really ableist because it stars a young Leonardo DiCaprio as a child with an intellectual disability. playing a role of someone who is disabled. And yeah, so fucked up already on that. But we have. The film is about Johnny Depp creep. And Johnny Depp is Gilbert Grape, and he lives in this small town in this states. And he has a very fat mum. And so we start the movie with an introduction to who he is his siblings. He's got Leonardo DiCaprio as a sibling, and then two sisters. And they then he introduces the mom and says, kind of like, unfortunately, she hasn't left the house in over seven years. And then her first scene is his him saying that a voiceover and then he is giving her breakfast. A full Well, we'd say full English, which is you know, like bacon and eggs and toast or whatever. So he's given her a falling English while he has a thin some sips a cup of coffee. And he mentioned previously, she was the prettiest girl in town. Now, if that's not kind of like, watch out, you can go from the prettiest girl in town to this Sideshow freak of a human, you better be terrified of becoming fat by getting fatter, because you're going to end up like that. And it's not even going to estate, the prettiest girl in town. The next scene, so I'm going to show every I'm gonna tell you every scene that she's in the next scene is they're having spaghetti for dinner. Remember that spaghetti thing we'll talk about and again in a little bit. And so two scenes that she's in already, both she's eating Johnny Depp lifts up a little kid to gawk at MAMA as she's been handed and not at another plate of food, straight after dinner. And then so Johnny Depp is lifting a little kid up and kind of laughing about it. And then the handy person is like, Hey, that's not very kind and he's like, well over. The next scene with her is at the dinner table. They're talking about food. And then Johnny Depp notices that the floor is collapsing from the mum sighs I remember this so clearly thinking I am a my cup making my house collapse from my size. And I must have been, you know, not even 10 years old watching this film. You know that. She is so big that the house is collapsing under her weight so they go down into the basement and they mama comes back from the toilet and she sits back down in her chair. And it's this huge kind of bang third of her in there. dust falling from the ceiling and you know being like, Oh God, the, the joists of their house are close to collapsing because of her. And it's not like oh

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it's it's really, it's really framed in an in an, in a not a compassionate way. Right. So from there she falls asleep Gilberts, which is Johnny Depp tries to turn off the TV while she's holding the remote. And he tries to slip it out of her hand and like turn it off. And she kind of stirs and wakes up and he's like, Oh, what are you doing? And that was really kind of like, felt like she was this giant, you know, an ogre. And he was the person trying to come in and rescue the princess from his grasp. You know, that's what it felt like, of this. Don't wake them, because then they're going to rearrange because all that people are interested in is watching. Talk Show TV. Next scene with her is watching a movie and she has popcorn. So so far, in almost every single scene, here she is eating food. And then we have a scene where the Leonardo DiCaprio goes to prison and she goes to she leaves the house and asks to be driven to the police station to get the son out of prison. And so when she walks into the police station, people are gawking. By the way. I remember her being for when I watched this this movie, I remember her being really, really big. And now Now, you know, I paid and watch the movie again. And I was like, what? She's, she's a supersize person. But, you know, not in the sense that in the end of this scene, like pretty much the whole town gathers to look at her. And you know, I This is set in you know, this is in the 90s and small communities and maybe you know, and obviously pick fat people that does happen that, that gawking does happen, but the framing of her fatness is is exaggerated, right. So, as she leaves the the police station in the town, people are gathering to witness and the children are laughing at the sight of a fat body. One man takes a picture. And then and so so there's the kind of like the real lived reality of even though it's overdone. Of, of what it's like to be a fat person and the mum is is has a nice personality, right? The mum is seen as loving and kind and that type of stuff. And so you see that, that kind of empathy, we're walking in the same shoes as mama, as she is being humiliated by the townspeople, then the next shot, they couldn't help themselves. The next shot is the car driving down the road heavily tilting to one side. And so it see oh, we're telling such an empathetic story and we really love mama and then it's then you're making the joke out of the filmmaker is making a joke out of mama by showing that. Oh, well look at how fat she is in the car that it's it's tilting, tilting to one side. They could have just shown mama in the car without the tilting because the tilting was the mocking so the next scene is dinner, the sister throws a potato with a kid looking through the window the same kids as before. And Gilbert laughs because he thinks it's hilarious. A lot of love has his mum. And then we see a scene where she's doing crafts for Leonardo DiCaprio his birthday, and that's the only time that until this point that we have seen that she's not eating apart from the policing, right? It's not around eating so the movie ends with it says it's Arnie's birthday de Leonardo DiCaprio is at his birthday. And she meets Johnny Depp's new girlfriend, she apologizes for her appearance. I haven't always been like this. And she then walks up to the stairs into bed and she doesn't doesn't walk up the stairs normally but she walks up to stairs. She goes to bed and then she dies. She is so young in this movie, she must be 3035 The coroner comes and says we're going to need to The moment Gilbert says it's gonna take a crane to get her out of here. What do you watch this movie as a kid? I was like that is legitimate. They are going to need to take a crane to get her out now I'm like no, it would have taken three people put her in a dolly with some wheels. Take her down the stairs through the front door. How does she get through the front door when she left to get the son from prison from jail? Say why? You know, like if I might I was like yeah when I was a kid Yeah, well how you know 100 men couldn't lift a woman that size and I mean no, and that get no we're gonna need a crane to take the roof of the house to get her out talk about dehumanizing Johnny Depp's finally says I'm not gonna let her be a joke and decided to take everything out the house and then burn the house with her in it and that was so that the crowd didn't see the shame of mama. And theoretically that's what mama would have preferred but what mama have preferred that them to burn down their family home so they have nowhere to live. That she has no resting place she doesn't have like a grave or a or a ceremony or funeral or anything they just burn the house with her in it is that would that may have been our wishes.

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So yeah, even though that even though that film was I was like That is such a good for film. It's so compassionate towards that people. It's not it's that fake compassion of, you know, oh, look, this is why oh, look at this. Look at this fat person. She's fat. And by the way, the story is that her husband had died by suicide a number of years earlier and and she has mental health issues because of that. And we don't know why she has she's living in a bigger body because apparently she used to be a beauty queen in the show a picture of her and she was she was straight sized. So I don't know if they're insinuating that grief makes someone fat, which is which is another trope, which is the same in the whale is that grief makes people fat. And that fatness is a sign of mental illness. When there is you know, that could be the case but there are hundreds of reasons why people are fat and it's just a way that human beings are fatness is just a normal way for human beings to be. So in both of those films, they're framing fatness as a mental health condition and we're being compassionate towards them because it was a an in the whale the the Brendan Fraser's boyfriend dies by suicide too. So yeah. By the way, the the actor who plays mama wasn't wearing a fat suit was a real life. Super, super fat, human and the director saw her on I don't know some talk show Sally, Jessy Raphael or something like that. And you know, Mama dies in it. And she's like, I don't know. 3040 plus 40 Max, and there's no kind of like, why did she die? What the heck? It was just like, Oh, she's dead, obviously, because she's fat. The real actor live to 69. So I'm like, Yeah, so I mean, you knows that everyone who was who was like, You're gonna die any second. So the other movies I want to talk about is seven. And so seven is a crime, horror, thriller type show. Movie, Brad Pitt's Morgan Freeman, they're detectives. And there's a murderer who is killing people because they have committed a sin. One of the seven deadly sins so there's like sloth and wrath and pride. And Gluttony is one of them. And so we have a scene where they are some one of the first steps the first murder I think in the in the show, and they go to a suspected murderer. And so they go into a house which is, you know, seemingly filthy, a squalid apartment. Maybe he was a hoarder, it's dark, you can't really see but it was very unpleasant. And he had stacks of spaghetti sauce cans in the kitchen, the guy. He had two TVs on one on top of the other one playing a torch No, surprise, surprise and he has died because he's eaten spaghetti. So his face was down facedown in some spaghetti. Same thing that Mama was eating spaghetti. I don't know what it is like I always find it interesting the things that people think are unhealthy, you know or think is a fat person food. And like for me, it's we get you, polonaise was always kind of like a boring, you know, Tuesday night dinner type thing, like, we're getting was never seen as this. Who, you know, we shouldn't be eating this food. And so I've never perceived it as that. And I've never been very drawn to spaghetti because luckily, that's one of the things that I wasn't told was, quote unquote, unhealthy. But it's really interesting to see other people's perception of what is unhealthy or bad. Yeah, and so in these two examples is spaghetti. By the way, spaghetti is not bad. It's great. We get you. Polonaise is a really good meal and it has all of the things that we need in there. It's got vegetables, we've got carbs and protein and, and fat and it's it's a good meal. So anyway, so the the seven like a quote of what this thing is a, they say is a morbidly Oh, shut in, in a roach infested hovel, he dies of internal hemorrhaging after the killer force feeds him until he bursts so the idea is that the killer has gone there and taken the thing that he has he eats which was because he had that loads of cans of spaghetti sauce that he potentially hoarded and so makes him eat the thing that he's already eating because he's so greedy and gluttonous. And and so he needs to die. The actor Bob Mack was 480 pounds, but was also wearing extra processive prosthetics AKA a fat suit to make him bigger. You know that there's a really there's a scene where you know they they approach him it's the first sight of his body and the you know, he's huge back with the tiny che was it was very cartoon like, you know, this depiction of fatness and really making him look as gargantuan as possible. I mean it's a thriller and they really are making this body look as horrifying as possible. And then we go to an autopsy scene no dignity is given to the man and the first thing that Brad Pitt says is how the how'd that fat foot ever get out the door? Morgan Freeman replies please It's obvious he was a shut him I mean it's fatphobia and ableism in one ad and yeah, so that the idea of the same thing the quote shutting fat person watching reality TV eating tons of food dirty place the only things that they get up to is eating food watching reality TV masturbating you know these things there's no kind of there's no personality to these these characters. And then obviously framing that watching watching reality TV or talk shows and and masturbating and eating food or bad things. I mean, that sounds like a really fucking good Friday evening to me. But attributing to those two like characteristics of a fat person which is not helpful is not helpful. In in further understanding fatness so yeah, I asked I asked my audience you know what other shows like this that or movies and, and a lot of people said shallow, how shallow how used to be one of my favorite films. And that goes to show how fat phobic I was other people said friends Pitch Perfect love Atul actually the Nutty Professor Norbit. Yeah, lots of lots I mean, if you go back into film and TV archives of fatness your nine out of 10 that's going to be portrayed as comic relief. something disgusting something sad very rarely is it going to be joyful and not about their way you know shallow How was just egregious and that a Black Jack Black was in there that's what I was like I love Jack Black Why the fuck did you have to do that that below makes me yeah makes me not like him and wish I wish he'd I don't know if he has ever but come out and said hey that film was fucked up I should never have done that. And it's worth thinking about that the the idea of fat suits right and why they're problematic. So I'm going to read a couple of things. So here's a quote from a nylon piece.

Unknown Speaker 56:04

So in September, American Crime Story impeachment star Sarah Paulson expressed her regret for wearing a fat suit for her portrayal of former civil servant livet. Linda trap trip. It's very hard for me to talk about this without feeling like I'm making excuses. She told the LA Times I think that phobia is real, I think pretending otherwise causes further harm. And it's very important conversation to be had, which was great that Sarah Paulson said that, but it would have been even greater if she had let the roll go to someone who was fine. And other thing about the whale is that the director said we could not cast someone who was 600 pounds in the film because they would not be able to do it. They would not be able to handle filming because apparently everyone who has 600 pounds is not there's no 600 pound people out there who are not incredibly talented actors and well able to to go to work, live live do normal everyday activities. And even if they needed accommodations. The the toll that wearing that fat suit had on Brendan Fraser he apparently had to sit with two bags of ice underneath his fat suit, it would take 10 hours to get him into the fat suit and was deeply uncomfortable. He was really really hot. It was just awful experience for him. And think about those accommodations and those things that they were doing to make Brendan Fraser look fat when they go they're just a higher fat actor. And then oh, maybe we would have to you know, tweak something here and there. But no, no. Hey, no one who can do it is what the director says which is another sign of the directors deep misunderstanding of fat people and and the lives of super fat people. Because he thinks that every fat person is like Charlie, or super every super fat person is you know, masturbating and eating food and doesn't leave their apartment, you know? And it hey, if that's the if that's what if someone's life is and that's, that's fine as well, right? But Darren cannot see that that is a trope. Okay, so continuing Aubrey Gordon have your fat friend explained it best in a 2018 article pegged to Netflix insatiable series like water on stone. Those narratives chip away at our collective ability to see fat people as fully human. People who get married, get divorced, make mistakes, have regrets, overcome barriers triumph and suffer. When we don't see those stories we forget they are real even when they're happening everyday in the lives of our fat partners, neighbors, friends and family. Overwhelmingly fat people and people with eating disorders. We're clear fat suits fat suit narratives in salt, fat people present harmful images of us and trigger relapses in eating disorders. Those points by and large weren't disputed by anyone but many responses sought to defend specific projects that you had used fat suits and largely their defenders weren't fat themselves. Yeah, so fat suits are dehumanizing. And I mean, there is the there's a there's a difference between someone who is fat Monica from friends where the fat suit was, was a comic device saying like, Oh God, look how bad she used to be an lol fatness to serve and a and also there's the portrayal of it in dramas and And it not necessarily being a comedy device. And I feel like that that's less harmful but still really fucking harmful because, you know, there might be like, well, there's no factors to play these roles. And it's because there's no for actors because then actors keep taking the rolls of fat actors and then putting on a really shit prosthetic suit. Black, black to all of that.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:33

Um,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:34

so yeah, I hope you don't go and see the whale. I mean, do what you want. But I think you know, if you're a fat person, it will probably deepen any fatphobia that you are working to overcome, because we are all fat phobic. If you're a straight size person, go and give them money that you would spend on a cinema ticket to a fat rights organization like Nafa and a FA or as the A S D H. I mean, maybe you want to go and watch it for research purposes. And, you know, whatever, but still is harmful to us example to everyone. I think it's had a limited release a few days ago, and it's it's on full release 21st of December. If we can vote with our feet, that would be great. But you know, I think a lot of a lot of thin people will probably really want to see it because I know when I was deep in fatphobia I'd be watching shows like The Biggest Loser and using that to make myself feel better about myself. At least I'm not like them. You know? And then think I think thinking I understood their lives because they were portrayed on a TV show which is 100% real and not edited out.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:07

Um

Unknown Speaker 1:02:14

yeah, so thanks for hanging out with me today. Links for everything that I spoke about in the show notes. Remember, if you want to come to the Dominican Republic with me, come here be fun. See you in the next episode. Okay, see you later. Crocodile stay face buddy.