Episode 105 Transcript

Welcome to the Fierce Fatty Podcast. I'm your host, Victoria Welsby and this is episode 105. Today, we're talking about eye rolling misconceptions about fat positivity.

You're listening to the Fierce Fatty Podcast. I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, bestselling author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self-esteem to being a courageous and confident fierce fatty who loves every inch of this jelly. Society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money, and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter. Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century. So how do you stop a negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the Fierce Fatty podcast. Let's begin.

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they rat bastards. Hello phase fatties. Welcome to the pod cost. Thanks for tuning in. Or if you all from North America, thanks for tuning in. Cuz you say like tune? Yeah, I guess we'll I guess the one he has a day to night. Oh, this video? Yeah, the date tonight. It's my first day in my first date since coming back to Vancouver in the in the in the January and it's what is it November now? Oh, 811 11 months? Actually, you know what, because I've been very willy nilly about this whole dating thing. And I bought Okay, Cupid premium. Yeah. And I thought you know what premium I got, I'm gonna be like VIP, I can be able to do everything. It's so fucking expensive.

Okay, so it's like 160 us, it was like, whatever it was, it was 180 Canadian room for six months, which, you know, I got I get a few digs out of that, you know, some, you know, some sex Allah, maybe a partner, you know, it was worth it, right? But then I was like, Oh, I can't wait to use all these premium features. But if you buy premium, all you get from it is being able to look at who likes you. Nothing else. Like there's this boost thing where you can like boost your profile, or you can read receipt, or you can. Like there's so many different things. It was like things popping out. Like do you want to do this? And then I was like, oh, yeah, I'll turn on Read Receipt. Oh, yeah, I'll tell boosts and it's like boost. Boost was like, for 24 hours. $80. Oh, it's like, the cheek of it. It gives me a premium here. I've paid you my $180 Give me the shit. But no. So anyway, I've got a date a virtual date. I've decided I wanted to do a virtual date. You know what I was like, You know what hasn't been? It hasn't be It's been only a couple of years since I've been out today. And so I'm going to ease myself in.

You remember, I talked about how you need to take all your toes in the water, don't jump into the deep end, because deep pan can be traumatizing. And so this is me tinkling my toe. So I've been chatting to some suitors over OKCupid for a couple of weeks, and maybe a week maybe. And now I suggested to someone Hey, do you want to do Walker's he suggested doing a in person thing. And I was like, Hey, do you want to just have a quick phone call? And then I said, Do you want to make it like a zoom call so we can you know, see each other and read our read on body language? And he said yes. I said to another guy who asked me out on a date, I said, Hey, let's do a quick call beforehand. And he was like, now I like it in person, which is fine, whatever.

But you know, is there something about that? What that I was like, Listen, this is like, you know, building up pressed and it's not like I'm asking you to, I don't know, do something really weird. It's just having a chat on the phone. It's like, I don't want to I don't want to like pre Panini times. I feel like I don't want to commit to having to put on trousers and run a comb through my hair. If the person is a bozo, right? Like if I turn up and I'm like, Oh God, who is this? Why are you what so you know, and this this one guy. He wasn't That talkative and I think there was a language barrier. And so I was like, you know, whatever, it's a language barrier. So let's, you know, talk so that on the day, I know that we're able to, you know, get on with each other and all that type of stuff. And he was just like, No, and I was like, okay, whatever. cup of coffee bothered with that. But, yeah, so, another virtual date is 6:30am. But dinner before that was 315.

Now, so three hours, I'm gonna be getting ready to have a date. I different a little bit nervous, but you know, it's fine. I can talk to anyone literally. And if he's a if he's a complete freak, or whatever, as when I say freak, I mean, like, being a creep, and slimy or whatever. I can just hang up, hang up the phone, hang up the zoom and see what I said aloes are. So yeah. Also another update. I don't have COVID we Yeah, so pleased about that. I was I was really convinced that I did. You know what? I was like, Oh, yeah. Is it getting worse? Oh, yeah. I think I do. But I don't. So that's that's good. That's good. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I was gonna tell you last week, but I forgot. I forgot to say

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Be on the lookout for one of I'm not gonna name names. Okay, I'm looking. Although I do like a bit of a gossip, but I don't I like I like watching other people's drama and gossip and silently, you know, we're silently watching for hours of stories to see what the gossip is. But I don't want to start eating. I don't want to start anything. But I want you to be aware of who you're following in the fat positive body positive anti diet space. And make sure that those your favorites like the people that you're going to be given money to or whatever. Aren't secrets. right wingers, that is a one, it's just one person. There is one person who is one of the most famous people in this space, who has been sharing some chores, choice choice choice anti Vax messages, and then playing off being like, Oh, I'm joking. I'm joking.

And then comparing being a mask of vaccine mandates to Nazis law was fucked up. So fucked up and then being like, chill, and then being doing a little bit of like, rape, denying Lu saying, oh, victims are lying and do and Laurie, Laurie, I think she's pretty much got away with it in any way on like, an, you know, went to her account. And here's a good way to find this stuff out. Because you know, if they Sarah share a meme here or there, and you're like, a lot of times, you don't know, because you look at the mean, and you're like, what's that mean? is a little bit is it a little bit, the message is kind of a little bit hidden. And so it can be interpreted maybe different ways. And I'm always like, I'll give someone a benefit of the doubt within, you know, within reason. And so a great way to, to see who what's going on with them is to see who they're following.

Now, sometimes, you know, some people might follow certain people because they want to keep tabs on them. And they don't like them but but there was a definite pattern here. With this person. I went and I went and actually I text somebody in who's my friend another. She is a body image coach, and I text text her and because we were talking about this, and so I text her and I said, Oh my God, this person, I just looked at who they follow. And this is a text accounts include Flat Earth pro gun, American flag products, which is not wrong in itself, you know, American flag, whatever, it's just a flag, but a lot of times flags American flag, and the British flag denotes racism.

Anyway, American flag products an info war star, so ever Wars is a right wing. common reason what is his name anyway? He's just he's just a fucking piece of shit. You have a host that pro Trump accounts anti vaccine, a diet account, anti trans anti immigrant, right wingers, it's fucked. And that's just the first 20 accounts I looked at. So go and go look at your favorite thin white anti diet accounts and and see if they're secretly hiding or not so secretly, they outed themselves right with the posts. But I find it so interesting I find it so interesting how how easily we were sucked into these types of things because this is someone who is pro science right? This is someone who is about fat liberation, body liberation, all that type of stuff and and somehow that's that's moved into being a flat earther a conspiracy theorist fucking Cuba known and anti trans anti immigrants anti vaccine pro Trump pro gun all that. And it's it's it's very surprising It's very surprising to me I find it fascinating how that happens and and and there's like a there's lots of what is it the the wellness to Q anon pipeline and and there's a what there's a very clear way that people kind of can start to get extreme and I don't even think like because if you think about extremeness in fact positivity

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I can't see how that would lead to right wing stuff. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, just just keep your money keep your money keep your money to yourself if try not to be giving it to a secret secret for people who've got these wild ass views. So anyway, so I've been doing I've been doing lots of research on weight bias training. Oh. Oh, man, I am so mad about I've been doing this like look and having a looky loo at weight bias training, weight bias training, seeing what's out well, and so it makes me so fucking mad. It makes me so summer I was just just yesterday I was looking at okay, this is weight bias training that all of British Columbian invent, you know, Vancouver, BC, Canada, all of BC healthcare providers can go through its weight loss training. And I was like, oh, fuck, yeah. It's free. You can go through. I want to tell you the name of it, because it's just fucking awful. It's so awful. Oh, my God. Oh, where do I start? Okay. I actually I'm gonna I'm going to get a clip. inserted in in here.

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Well, what do we have here? He burned his hand on a stove. Did you warn him not to touch a hot stove? Of course I did. Well, I'm afraid we can't help him. Clearly he did this to himself.

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That's absurd, isn't it, that a doctor would compromise care for a patient because he did it to himself. But unfortunately, overweight and obese people are the victims of this kind of irrational weight prejudice almost every day.

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So basically, the whole idea is like, the whole idea of all the training is don't be don't be mean to fat people. They can't help it their fat. We have to say, we have to tell them to lose weight nicely. Don't be mean. Oh, and of course they use the Oh words and all over. They all of it is created by thin people. They have a fat presenter. I was like, Oh, I'm surprised that they have that presenter. But I was looking at the people who created it. And from the the come the heads of the people who created it. They're all thin white people, obviously. And it's all about how you know when you weigh your patients, maybe weigh them in a private area and tell them that they're a fat fucking loser and need to lose weight. Don't do it in public because we want to be nice about common girls we need to be and oh my God, and that was one it was like a teenage boy they did like roleplays recreations of roleplays whatever. teenage boy goes in and is like, you know what, I'm just really, really lethargic. There's something wrong you know? lalalalala and the doctor is like, okay, so you're clearly Oh, word. And so what do you eat? And how do you exercise? And the guy was like, oh, you know, I just, you know, whatever eat food and actually, I'm on the this sports team or whatever. And so they're all like, this is a great way to do it, because you're asking what they eat, and what they you vote, you tell them? Oh, you're clearly fat. And what do you eat fatty? How much do you exercise your loser? And then saying, Okay, we'll come back when you've exercised and eaten less, exercise more, eating less. And we'll, we'll, we'll check you out again.

And so there was nothing that was it. It was like, This is how you do it. And it was like, hang on a minute, he said, he was like, There's something wrong with him. It was just, he was just like, Oh, he's fat. He's fat, therefore, that's why he's sick. He was like, their 16 year old, like, very slightly chubby kid, like, Oh, my God, it was so bad. It just makes me enraged that people go through this training, and they're just like, their view of fat people is made worse. Like, don't, don't, don't don't talk about weight around the factories, because they get really upset. Because, you know, they're just, it's just in their nature, right? That people are sensitive losers. And this and we got to help them try and lose weight. We just have to be nice about it. But they can't help it. Bless them. They've tried but on like, I'm, you know, we all know the answer is just to exercise more and, and eat less. And these fucking idiots can't do it. And so we have to be nice about it. Like, that was the whole thing. I was like, What the fuck, and so much of this weight weight. So much weight bias training, but overlooked out. Is is using your words, which you know, that's to begin with. And that's like that to me. Like that's the biggest clue. Are they using other words? Are they saying it's not the fat people's fault? Is that the whole thing? It's not the fat people's fault.

And assuming that fat people are fat, because of what they eat and how they exercise, and then the the the whole thing is just being nicer. When you know, if your receptionist don't laugh in their face, laugh behind their backs. It's like, Oh, yeah. And I was reading this, this paper from from Rachel Fox, what is it called? Let me tell you, let me tell you what it's called. Working towards. Is this all right? On Yeah, working towards eradicating weight stigma by combating pathologizing. ologists by fellow Gs, Gs zation offer folks that pathologize ation, Jesus, a qualitative pilot study using direct contact and Narrative Medicine. So Rachel Fox was one of the people who wrote this, this paper, I'll link to it in the show notes, saying how

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the way that we educate on weight biases doesn't help it doesn't reduce weight bias. And so what the general the way that they've people have educated on on fat phobia before. They've got people to wear fat suits. And then go out in the in public for like an hour. And be like, Hey, do you feel more empathetic towards people because you wore a fat suit? And people are like, oh, yeah, fucking I looked meaning when I was I was disgusting. I was gross. Like when I was fat. So yeah, I've got like, I've got more empathy for fat people because they're gross. And, and telling people about saying to people, listen, people can't control their weight, that doesn't reduce stigma. And what Rachael Fox and company have have have shown is that they did this. They got fat people in, it was a it was only a small study, but it was interesting results. They got fat people to come in for five weeks. And then they got medical students to come into. And they discussed pieces of work actually, like a poem, some art pieces, made by fat people. An excerpt from one of Roxane Gay his book and an article as well. And so they, they got them to read that and then they got them to do a writing piece on a separate question, which is kind of like, what Tell me a time that you felt loved.

And then they discussed it in a group and so they weren't talking about like, it wasn't, is different, right. It's different and, you know, what are the question? Just like her name a time that you've experienced fatphobia I've seen fatphobia and so medical students were like, oh, yeah, I saw it when this fat person experienced that because they're all straight size and and then the the fat people can say, oh actually experience and it grew actual empathy. And their weight bias at the end was reduced. And the fat participants got a really good sense of well being and happiness that they were able to connect and change the minds of these medical students. And I feel I you know, I just feel so hopeful about the the younger generation and as students learning moving into these professions, because there's so much more open, there's so much more open. And especially, you know, people who've been if you've been told a message for all of your life, and it's in your profession, and you've told hundreds 1000s countless people to lose weight, and the you know, weight, his death and all that type of stuff, to be able to turn that belief around is so fucking difficult, isn't it? Can you imagine? So I think you know, for people who've been practicing in the healthcare profession for longer, it's a lot harder. And so anyway, so that's, that was really cool to see. I'm really enjoying blah.

So anyway, yeah. Let's talk about what we're here to talk about. God, this rambling introduction has been 2020 minutes. Sorry. It's interesting stuff I'm talking about is that shut up. Alright, so let's talk about can you be fat positive and also die. So first off, let me tell you what, you know, fat positive fat acceptances. Let me tell you this is a little quote from Wikipedia. So quick, the fat acceptance movement, also known as like pride, fat impairment, and fat activism is a social movement seeking to change anti fat buyers, and social attitudes by raising awareness about obstacle faced by fat persons. For the general public. Areas of contention include the aesthetic, legal and medical approaches to people whose bodies are fatter than the social norm. The modern fad exception, acceptance movement began in the late 1960s. Besides its political role, the fat acceptance movement also constitutes a subculture which acts as a social group for members. So just just a little, just a little definition for you there. And the so the history of acceptance goes back to 1967 When 500 people met in New York, New York, New York Central Park, to to protest against fat phobia. So quote, sociologist Charlotte Cooper has argued that the history or facts of the fat activist movement is best understood in waves similar to the feminist movement, with which she believes it is closely tied. So we keep that in mind about what fat acceptance is, it's basically

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saying, Hey, everybody, fat people or people, let's maybe not discriminate against fat people and fat people who have the same should have the same basic rights as straight size people, you know. And a lot of people here fat positivity, and they hear something else. So the first off is kind of eye rolling misconceptions about fat positivity, or body positivity or anything to do with this kind of area is, the first thing is that it's all about slagging off straight size people. So it's all about making fun of straight size people. It's all about straight size people. It is not about straight size people it is about fat variable and the way that society treats fat people. So a lot of I see a lot of people getting confused about this. And people who are well meaning sharing things like Real Women Have Curves or laughing at the fact that Donald Trump Donald Trump is fat, or only dogs like bones you know, like posts that are sharing the the idea that it's better to be fat. Fat positivity is not saying fat people are better. It's saying, Hey, can we have the same access? Maybe? Is that okay? Can we be treated like humans, is not saying that fat people are better, you know, that fat people are pretty fucking amazing. Some of them aren't. Okay, Donald Trump.

But, you know, that's not what it's about. It's not about slagging off thin people and saying thin people ugly, fat people are beautiful. You know, it's not about aesthetic. It's not about saying that people are worthy because some people are ugly. You know, you remember a few weeks ago, I said, I was saying about some guy, I was texting on the avoiding apps. And I said, Oh, hey, just checking eat your fat positive. And he was like, Yeah, I'm fat positive, because I'm fat. And I was like, well, that doesn't make you fat positive. And he says, Yeah, because I think that that thin women are disgusting. And I was like, No. And so it's that's not that's not what it's about, right? Yeah. And the same as well, the Another misconception is the fat positivity or body positivity is all about loving your body. And that is the goal of it is to love your body. The goal of it is liberation, for fat people. If you in my opinion, the ability to accept your body, and even love your body is a wonderful thing that is going to make fat activism and fat liberation a billion times easier, easier in the regards that if you think that you're disgusting, and that you're an attractive and should lose weight, and all that type of stuff. It's harder to fat for your fight for your rights, if you believe those things about yourself, right. Whereas if you think that you don't have to love yourself, but if you think that you are a worthy human being and you deserve, love, and acceptance, and all that type of stuff, it's easier to fight the fight, when you're on board with it yourself. Not saying that you have to be. And that's not what fat positivity or body positivity is about. It's about the liberation of fat bodies.

Another misconception is that this is a lot of times it comes from from Trolls is that fat positivity is all about giving up on your health, an act of you actively pursuing the goal of being unhealthy? Got it, Scott. No, no, no. So it's not giving up on your health. It's not about health. It's a you know, it's about access, which will will improve health because then fat people will be able to get medical care, which is equal to straight size people, right. And so, you know, I would argue that if anything, it's not about health, but if anything, it would be pro health, because we're not pursuing weight loss. We're not pursuing something that is really detrimental towards our health. We are pursuing things that are positive for our mental and physical health. So yeah, I think a lot of times, if that people are not

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chastising themselves, if they're not self flagellating. If they're not saying, I know I need to lose weight, I know it's unhealthy to be fat. I know that I'm a piece of shit. Then people are like, Oh, well, you were just trying to be unhealthy. Just before we came on in here, actually, I can get some ideas. This I shared a post on Instagram, I'll tell you later. But this thin white dietitian who is anti diet, says Victoria made a post. She is great. At first she was like fucking misgendering me all over the shop. And Victoria loves me so much. Isn't that my agenda? She's She made this post. And it was great. But someone commented saying We don't owe anyone health. And I don't agree with that. Don't we owe ourselves health? Don't we? You know, shouldn't don't we owe it to ourselves to journal every day. Well, what the fuck are you talking about? What's that? What is that got to do with anything? Like? I'm just speechless. Like, no, no, like, what it is it's not you know, you do you owe yourself health. It that's just like a red herring. It's it's it's it's not what we're saying. We're saying that. You don't need to be healthy to be worthy. We're saying that health is a incredibly complex concept. And we're saying that health is