Episode 59 Transcript

Welcome to the Fierce Fatty Podcast. I'm your host, Victoria Welsby and this is episode 59. Today, we're talking about “Let’s Talk about Sex Baby”

I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident Fierce Fatty who loves every inch of this jelly. Society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the Fierce Fatty podcast Let's begin.

Unknown Speaker 1:19

Let's talk about sex baby. Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about birds. There can be let's talk about sex. Let's talk about sex. You remember that song? From the 90s and that other song? Right said Fred. Do you remember that one? I'm too sexy for my shirt. too sexy for my shirt. Too sexy. It hurts. I remember that being on. Maybe like Top of the Pops or something. And my mum being there and me. Like just the word sex me being like, oh, is I remembered? Yeah, so let's talk about fat sex today. And things that go around fat sex. I've been watching rewatching Game of Thrones. The HBO most watched TV showing history, I think. Anyway, I watched I watched season one when it first came out. But then I didn't watch lots of the seasons. And then I picked it up again, like season six or seven or five or something. Anyway, so I was just like, You know what, I need to go back and watch it all because you know, cuz, you know, as I've been binging it, I've been binging it. Let me see where I'm at. on season six. Oh my god. I've watched six seasons of Game of Thrones in I don't know maybe a couple of weeks. Couple of days, a couple of hours. Who knows? Anyway, so Game of Thrones. Lots of tickets, right? Women's tickets. And not enough Dick's I saw there was a dick today I saw a dict today this. I saw Riddick today, you know, but the rest of them they haven't been real. Anyway, and I just got it just got me thinking about tits. And as you do think about sets. All of the people in the show that most of the people in the show in the show in leading roles are stereotypically attractive. And there's this use of you know, wiping out the baps as a way to kind of make it you know, it's like very violent, you know, sex and, you know, incest and all sorts of different things like that. And so yeah, but they've had they don't have knobs they didn't have knobs. It's not it's not, it's not. Anyway, the tips that they show are stereotypically, the tips that society tells us are good tips, so they're not saggy tits. They're not tits with inverted nipples. They're not tits. That one goes one way one goes the other. They're not tips where one's bigger than the other. They're not it's where the teeny tiny hits. They're all stereotypically quote unquote attractive tips. And this is getting past getting I'm getting annoyed with it. I'm getting annoyed with it. And anyway, watching watching six seasons of Game of Thrones, it's not good for my mental health anyway because it's violets in it had a nightmare about beheading. And yeah, and it just made me think about attractiveness. And why is it that in the show like the show has a fatphobia problem anyway, like the fat characters is a lot of like, Oh, look at that one. He's fat and oh, look, he's so fat eats food and shit like that, which is, you know, for boring. But then sometimes the good characters are fat, but there is kind of like they're fat, but at least they're kind of noble, you know, but they're not. They're not. They're not attractive, and fat and good. They're not a main character who's fat and, and the Savior, they're kind of quietly maybe good, but they're kind of making up for their fatness. Anyway, so this whole thing got me thinking about attractiveness, and my view of attractive nurse and,

Unknown Speaker 5:55

and being fat and my history of, of fat sex, having sex as a fat person, and what that means and what fat people's attractiveness means in society. And I've noticed a difference in, in my life, after learning to love and accept my body and learning about fat politics, a difference in my sex life, in my romantic life, in my whole life, basically, my whole life, some things have become harder, but ultimately more rewarding, you know, setting boundaries and ending relationships, making new relationships, actually, it's hard, right. But one of the things that took a while for me to see a clear difference in is sex. And a couple of reasons I worked was in long term relationships and, and I just didn't have the opportunity to have shit tons of sex, very sad. And also, I think this is a very sticky and tricky subject because our desirability is so tied up with our worth as human beings and being seen as desirable, or sexually attractive, seems to be, in society's terms, a very, very, very important quality. So the two areas I want to look at are the way that we perceive our own fat bodies, and the way that other people perceive our fat bodies. So other people may be our romantic partners. Fuck buddies, other people in society, people that you're not maybe having sex with, but and I got I got kind of interested in this concept of fat not being a sexual preference after watching a video a year ago by the fat sex therapist, Sonali rachet, WA, and Sonali made a video called fat phobia is not a sexual preference, and what Sonali says In this video, I'm going to link to this video and all of the other like articles and stuff that I mentioned in this video in the show notes. You can find the show notes at face value.com forward slash 059, for episode 59. If you ever forget which episode we're talking about, and you want the show notes, just go to forward slash podcasts and you'll find them. So Sonali says, sexual orientations and sexual fetishes are not sexual preferences. sexual preferences are not hardwired, they are really socially conditioned, we have some control of the fluidity of those preferences. And also, don't hide behind the excuse of sexual preference. Name it for what it is fat phobia. People are not hardwired to be never attracted to XYZ people. So fat people or black people, or trans people or whatever, people are not hardwired to not be attracted to those people. Society informs us of who we should be attracted to. And were certain bodies falls on this hierarchy that society has created, which is totally made up. Right. I like to think about it I always like to think about it as

Unknown Speaker 9:46

through the lens of art. I've mentioned before that I studied illustration at university and and one of the things that that really stuck with me is is what is art? And you know how some people are like, how can that be art it's just Have a you know, white square on a white background? That's not art? And it's like, well, yeah, it is. Because art is something that causes a reaction, even if it's negative or positive or whatever, that's causing a reaction with you. So then it's art, right? It doesn't matter if you don't like it. And so it's all subjective. Someone else might come to this white square on a white background and say, Oh, my God, this is inspired. I need it incredible. And someone else is like, this is bullshit. And, and so there's no kind of police, a heart police that says, This is our or this isn't art. And yes, like, you can be more skilled in the art of mark making, and making realistic depictions of things. But anyway, I always like to think about it like that. So So fatphobia is not a sexual preference. Watch this video from Sonali and it's, it's, it's really interesting. It's really interesting. Our preferences are not made in a vacuum, society viewing fat bodies as an attractive. No, no, that's not everyone. But overall, it's pretty agreed upon that smaller bodies are more attractive in society in general. And there's obviously lots of exceptions to that. And lots of people who don't agree with that for many different reasons. So something that Caleb Luna says, Caleb wrote, I'm going to link to this wrote, treating my friends like lovers, the politics of desirability, I'm going to link to that. And what Caleb says is our desire and desirability is not just about who we do, or wants to have sex with or who, or how often people want to have sex with us. It informs how we treat people in their larger world. So this is, this is big stuff, right? You know, our desirability or how, how much we think that people other people find us attractive informs how we are treated in the world. And if you are seen in society as more attractive, or if you're seen as ugly, then you have more or less social capital. That makes sense that makes sense. Another thing I want to share with you is written a piece written by Harry Ziad, and the piece is called Three reasons dating attraction and desire are always political. So in this article, a quote from Jamal T. Lewis is a quote from Jamal T. Lewis desire is a cognitive and an emotional phenomenon informed by something, and we'll repeat that desire is a cognitive and emotional phenomenon informed by something. And then it continues, they explained in an interview with me, which is an agitation backed up by science, the article continues. For instance, in a study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior in titled, is sexual racism, really racism, the researchers found that racist attitudes were associated with weight racial slash sexual preferences, suggesting that racism informs sexual desires. And at the end of the piece, I'd argue that oppression is most effective tool is in systematically making marginalized individuals feel unworthy and deserving of their treatment so that they will be less inclined to fight. So society, the structure, and the systems in society tell us that fat bodies are bad for a number of reasons. And one of those ways that they are bad is they are not sexually attractive. And so as a fat person, we live in a society where on the whole our bodies were told that they're not attractive. And so how does that affect us? And how does that affect those who might date us or be with us or want to have sex with us or or be friends with us even? And the answer is it in a massive way if you're a fat person and you've

Unknown Speaker 14:44

been inclined to have sex and be in the dating world and stuff I'm sure you've you've got examples of you know, you got stories that owl I bet yeah, now this is an awesome visor article. I think. Murray seven the Spina rotator Yeah, just as a top of my head. Yeah, so the article again, I'm gonna link it fat phobia exists, and it's especially bad in the bedroom. So I'm going to read a little quote from this. It can also show up in the bedroom, quoting, fat phobia in life, and it will it can also show up in bedroom, it could also show up in the bedroom from the person I nearly hooked up with who asked, Is it true that fat girl smelled like cheeseburgers down there to a dude who told my friends to guide him in because I don't think I'll be able to find it through the flap. There's no doubt that weight bias can penetrate even the most intimate of settings. Fat people have to navigate a dating pool that often feels saturated with folks who believe that they are quote, settling for us unquote. Who wants to non consensually fetishize our bodies or who assume we should be grateful for any attention we receive and abusers because they believe it's their right to do so. Of course plenty of fat people can and do have amazing fulfilling glorious sex and relationships. Eventually, I certainly did steal the stock the below storage provide proof that fatphobia doesn't discriminate when it comes to the places it'll show up. And then Marie shares stories that people have shared. One of the stories that really resonated with me, they're all like, holy shit. But one that resonated resonated with me it was from rows 38 rows 38 says there was a guy I slept with, may have even dated him for a while, who told me fat girls are better in bed because they have nothing to offer a man. So they would go all the way. Like they would bend over backwards and do nasty things because they are ugly, and no one wants them. They used to say because our thighs touch that we would have tighter vaginas just making me feel like my only reason to exist was to pleasure someone. I was about 19 or 20. When this happened to me, I really felt quite worthless at that point. Like no matter what I liked, or who I stood for, no one would see me for who I was. Instead, I would only be seen as a sexual object. Very early on, I learned that there were men who would sleep with me in secret, but never date me. And then I knew that my price to pay was to be easy. We truly deserve more. I wish I had learned earlier that all they wanted was just to use me but it's okay. I learned from those experiences, and I'll never go back. So that was from Rose 38 in the vise article that that really spoke to me about it really resonated with me because it was like that's, you know, a lot of my personal experiences before learning that it's okay to be fat. So I always wanted to date people who were stereotypically attractive to, I believe that it would raise my attraction levels to be with someone who was stereotypically attractive. And so I probably wouldn't have dated fat people. I'm trying to think if I ever did, yeah, maybe a couple. But I would want to be they would have to be showing to the world that they were attractive in other ways. Like, you know, maybe they were, you know, masculine. So maybe they were tall, and maybe they had a beard, and maybe they make cetera, et cetera. So I remember one time when I was 17. And I was getting off the school bus. And my abuser boyfriend who was 30 was there waiting for me to meet me from school. And one of my school friends got off the bus. And I was like, oh, there's my boyfriend. And he was like, you're with him? How did you get with him? And instead of being offended that he thought that I was so ugly that I could get with someone who was conventionally attractive. I was like, proud, because it was like, Well, yeah, obviously, I can get with someone like that, because I'm amazing, obviously, that I didn't think that but you know, that's kind of like how I took it off of he was a trophy to me, and even though he abused me in every way imaginable, he was attractive. So you know, I was so lucky to be with him.

Unknown Speaker 19:43

And I accepted that he would say abusive things about my body, because I believed them to be true. And so when he complained, saying Why do your tits look like that? Why do you have saggy tits? I would be like apologizing For my body, I want to go back right now and just like teleport, and just go and punch him in the face. So I would have sex with people way before I wanted to prove that I had value because I could please them and prove that someone wanted me. And I wanted them to fall in love with me because I had had sex with them. And it would mean that they had overlooked my fatness. But they did it because I had so much more to give because I was I was having sex with them. And this is a lesson I learned very young. So in my neighborhood, there was a boy that that would come and visit his grandma. And he lives his grandma lived opposite me, Daniels when my first boyfriend, and so I'd be his girlfriend, but also there was a girl that lived two doors behind him called genuine kowski. Jenny was blond and thin. And so he would swap between the two of us. I mean, there was no other boy, I guess, because there was no other boys our age or around. So he would like dump me and go out with her and then dump her and go out of me. And I would always say to him, Daniel, you know, I will do more things with you than Jenny's. Jenny won't like kiss you because we were like kissing each other. So this is when I was like 10 Yeah, about nine or 10. We'd like kiss. And so to get him more and more interested, I would say, Oh, I'm let's try this new kiss that, that the kids in the street were talking about. And it was like, you know, do the washing machine kiss where you like, roll your tongue around each other's mouths and the rainbow kiss? Oh my god, this is so disgusting. Skip ahead. 30 seconds if you don't want to hear something disgusting. But the rainbow case was when you would you would stand close to each other. And then you would spit into each other's mouths. And the rainbow bit would be like the spit going up into the air and then into their mouth. And then the other would reciprocate. That would be the rainbow because I'm telling you I bet you some adult was like, you know, some kid was like, What's kissing mean? And then someone said it mean spitting into each other's mouths. And then some kid heard that and was like, This is what kissing is. And then kids did it. You know? That wasn't I remember doing that and being like, Oh, that's so disgusting. But you know, if I do it, then Daniel won't don't dump me. He dumped me in the end. Who knows who he ended up with? Not Not me, obviously. And not generally Gaskey. But, yeah, so with all partners, I believe that it was my job to sexually satisfy them and to avoid having to inconvenience them with my wants, needs and desires. To the point of about 95% of the orgasms. I had were fake. If a guy tried to pleasure me one, I wouldn't be comfortable because I felt like I didn't deserve the pleasure. Because, you know, he was doing me a favor by having sex with me, too. I believe that he was probably feeling disgusted, that he was having to pleasure me. And three, I wanted them to believe that I was so easygoing, and that I that I was so like a porn star, that I would fake an orgasm in like 2.5 seconds. And so if a guy was like, if a guy was interested in making sure that I had fun, I wouldn't let him because I be like, you know, he looked at me and I'm like, Oh, my God, I just had an enabler. Okay. Okay, well, that was easy. And so it's kind of just contributed to this feedback loop of them thinking that they could make me come just by flopping their deck out and I'm like, Oh, my God, I just had none of them. And so then how hard would that be then for me to be like, Oh, actually, no, you have to do stuff. So I would constantly want to make up for the fact that they had a defective partner by doing stuff I didn't necessarily want to do or making myself hypersexual for them. So you know, buying lingerie and constantly shaving my legs and shaving my our soul and going to sex classes to learn how to give great blow jobs and hand jobs and all sorts of things and being super feminine, and trying to portray myself as as weak and as little as possible to try and be this kind of porn star type. person to make up for the fact that they had to have sex with a fat person. Now, most of my boyfriend's weren't, weren't like, Oh my God, you're fat. More is gross. I guess I'll have to have sex with you. It was only really that first one who behaved like that. And, and probably like some random guys in between who might have said comments and stuff like that, that kind of reinforced it. And society telling me constantly that being fat was really bad. And these poor guys oh my god, they're having to date these fat people. Oh, terrible, terrible life. To the point that I, I would accept so I was doing all this stuff. Lingerie shaved asshole for again, bleached. earholes. Like, you know, porn star hair, all that type of stuff. And in return, I would. I would accept like a smelly Dick shit stained underwear and a couple of pumps and be thankful for it. And be like, oh, you know, great sex live.

Unknown Speaker 26:10

Yeah, like you might have been covered in his own shit. But this is a thing. This is a thing. Have you heard about this is a thing. It's called chef's OS. If you don't want to hear to somebody just disgusting. Do you know what if you don't want to hear something disgusting? You should probably just not listen to any episodes. What is ridiculous reticular chefs ours right? So this is thing going around. The moving going around. It's been around the SIS hat men that after they shit. They believe some of them believe that it would be gay to wipe their own ass. And it would be gay to wash their own ours in the shower. This is a thing. Google it chefs ours. There's loads of message boards about it and men being like your why would I touch my asshole because I'm not good. Oh, and you know, I'm not touching my mouse I was so I'll just let water run over it, you know, and hope the ship might fall off. And now there was this like one woman on there who's like, my boyfriend refuses to wipe his arse and hit every time he comes over. He leaves shit stains in my bed. If we have sex, it absolutely reeks of shit. And I've spoken to him about it. And he refuses or he says he forgets to wipe his ass. And what can I do? Like he's a nice guy. I don't want to break up with him. But, you know, there's shit everywhere. And yeah, like I would, I would accept that I would expect except that ship naturally. Because I'm not alone. They're dealing with something as equivalently disgusting as shit. My body. Which is not true, by the way. The sheriff's office is true. But the rest of it isn't. So, so when I learned about fat positivity and fat activism and all that type of stuff, I started to in in relationships in it. sexual encounters, asked for more. And that was either confusing for them, or annoying for them. The men I was picking anyway. So not all men are like this, obviously. But the types of men I might have been hooking up with. If they had said fat phobic things before we went to bed before I wouldn't have been like, Oh, sounds like he's a bit of fat phobia. I don't think I should get with him. I'd be like, wow, you know, whatever. He's right. So now, I tend to, I say tend to because sometimes it still happens. I tend to not get into a situation where I would have sex with a fat phobe or would have sex with someone who thinks that my body is less because it was it is fat. Because generally speaking, unless you like, you know, meet someone and you don't really talk and then you just have sex. Generally speaking, you can kind of get an idea about someone before you have sex not always, you know, sometimes people can be like, like the last guy I had sex with, like a year ago. So depressing. I need some more dig. This quarantine has really got me bad. And I live in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, so I so I had sex with this guy. And before I'm like he's a pretty normal reasonable guy. And this motherfucker this mother father so when I So I went around his house right? In the light was I spent the evening during the evening, I made him come three times. I made him come three times. He was like, oh my god, this is amazing. My turn for an orgasm, two minutes in. He says, hurry up. This motherfucker had his balls, the range, and two minutes of the focus being on me. He's like, Oh, gone. Have you come yet? It's been like 12 seconds. And I was just like, No, no, no, no, no, thank you didn't see him again. Because I was like, What the fuck? Before I would have just been like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Yep, just had an orgasm, faked it because he would have been putting pressure on me to, to perform or whatever. So

Unknown Speaker 30:54

So now, now understanding that there's two, you know, kind of like what we're talking about in this podcast, two things going on here. The two things being the way that we perceive our fat bodies, and the way that society perceives our fat bodies. And the way that I view it now is that my fat body is not a problem. However, a lot of the people that I will encounter when pursuing relationships, think that my body is a problem. And then that's a problem for me, because I am not going to be with someone who thinks that my body is a problem. Who thinks, oh, you know, I'll date because maybe, you know, like, the, like Rose had said, Oh, maybe she's like, great in bed because she's fat. So she has to make up for being fat, or whatever, whatever they believe. Or maybe I'll just have sex well, but I won't be seen in public whether maybe I'll just, you know, I'll tell her that I want to pursue a relationship but i don't i just have sex and then see you later. Whatever it is, I that's not okay with me. Like, that's not okay. That it's not okay for people to treat me like that. And people like that are out there. Absolutely. And unfortunately, most of the people who are in the dating world or the sex world or whatever it is a biased have fat phobic beliefs, like deeply fat phobic beliefs that they don't want to examine. And, and say, Oh, it's just a preference. It's just a prayer for kids. And their preference is to non consensually fetishize Finn bodies to non consensually fetishize thin bodies. And like, Sonali says, just to not call it out and say, Yeah, I'm a fat phobe? Yeah, I'm just a fat phobe and genuinely, genuinely think that they were born and their brain had this preference implanted in there that said, I will never be attracted to a fat body, no fat person on earth, of all the billions people out there, not a single one could I ever possibly be attracted to, like less ridiculous as redonk. And this is not about forcing people to come and have sex with me. Like, it's not about that. It's about people examining their biases, because we all have biases, right? So. So we got about one side society, but then also, are we going to internalize this this myth that society has created this rating system, this hierarchy of bodies that society has created, that most people will never benefit from? Right? So you know, all these different shows? Or, you know, in society, you say, Oh, she's a 10? Or how attractive Are you in a scale of one to 10? Most people are not going to be rated a 10. Right? And so, for everyone who is a nine and below that system is not good for them. So why are we buying into this system? It's literally just made up, it's made up, right? We just said okay, you know, in our society, we think this type of body, this amount of muscles on a man this high on a man, this, this hair length on a women woman, this breast size on a woman, you know, this is optimal. But why? Why? It's like oh, remember it's like on it's, it's subjective. And so, are we going to say yes, that system that society has devised, which benefits people who are already in power? I'm gonna bind to that system and I agree with it 100% And because of that, I'm going to accept less in my life now I don't like it now not interested.

Unknown Speaker 35:13

No, thank you. And that quotes that one quote I'm gonna read it again from Hari Ziad Ziad, I'd argue that oppression is most effective tool is in systematically making marginalized individuals feel unworthy undeserving of their treatment, so they will be less inclined to fight it, if we are beaten down because we think that our fat belly and our saggy tits and whatever else, our fat bodies are bad and disgusting. When someone says your body is bad and disgusting, we will probably say, Yeah, or say, well, that's not very nice, but they can't explain it. They're kind of true, versus telling them to fuck off, which is what we should be doing, you know, and it's not it's not our fault, right? It's not it's not anyone's fault that we internalize this stuff. And we believe it, like it's not our job to, to change the world for for everyone. And because we are the ones who are suffering from this too, right. It's totally normal to have internalized these things. Because it's so pervasive, it's everywhere. Like I'm saying, on Game of Thrones, I'm like, Jesus, why can't we just get this princess who is fat? And people are like, Oh, she's so beautiful. And it would be so amazing, but they just don't do that. And that's just one of a billion shows, and messages that is out there in society that says, These bodies are sexually attractive, and these bodies are not sexually attractive. So where are you at with this? How's it going for you? Are you were having sex with people who are fat? phobes? You were someone who's a fat five. That would suck. Most people probably are because most people are fat and you know, really fat phobic? Are you compensating in your relationships for your fat body? Are you able to say the way that that society views fat bodies is fucked up? And I'm not buying into with some questions for you have a little think in your brain and your amazing brain. And if you want more links to all of the different articles that I spoke about in this episode, go to first fatty.com forward slash 059 for the show notes or you could probably just look in the scroll down on your screen. If you're watching listening to this on somewhere. Somewhere. There'll be links Okay, so they were thank you for hanging out with me today and talking about sex baby and Timberland boots on blini off but did you hope John? Do boo Bilou me. I appreciate it. I appreciate you being here and I'd be getting lots of sex and juicy orgasms if you want them. And no sex if you don't want it. And you're just feeling good. You're feeling good. All right, I'll see you in the next episode. See you later. Crocodile stay fierce, fatty.