Episode 113 Transcript

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Welcome to the Fierce Fatty Podcast. I'm your host, Victoria Welsby and this is episode 113. Today, we're talking about "toxic" food.

I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident fifth party who loves every inch of this jelly. society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the first fatty podcast Let's begin.

1:19

Hello, and welcome to this episode we're talking about toxic food

1:29

Yeah. No, not that type of Britney Spears, toxic food but the normal dye wedges, dye culture bullshit. We've got another episode of death to diets today with my co host this summer in an urn. And yes, I've been watching the URL Netflix as I do. And super excited to see the new Jonathan Vanness TV show which is called getting curious with Jonathan Van Ness. Seen a lot of promo from trans folks because there's an episode on gender and really excited to check that out and first few episodes Love it. Love it. Great talking about bugs talking about hair talking about gender amazing. Episode in the middle of the of the series goes into why do I love snacks so much is the title of the episode?

And was this a delightful foray into the wonderful world of snacks? No, it was not. It was not a delightful foray into the wonderful world of snacks. It was it took a dark turn into a debunked science from 1996 fatphobia food shaming, basically a ton of bullshit. And it made me it made me sad. I was I was watching I was watching the show. And I watched I watched the the gender episode and I would like put on my stories. Oh my God talking Jvn I love this. I'm Maya Angelou. Oh finally you know a non binary

3:28

a non binary perspective and an episode and talking about you know, intersections with racism and all of that juicy stuff. And then the next episode comes on and then I'm like, I'm probably being like, do not watch it. avoid, avoid if you don't want to be triggered. And people were people were triggered, right? And I got a few messages from people saying, oh my god, right. I thought it was just me. I thought I was being sensitive and I know you're not being sensitive. You're not being sensitive. That was motherfucking bullshit and a few actually a non binary trans fats activists called Jamia now and so I thought when I have a little chinwag about it Yeah, so that's what today's episode about is about another you know, toxic food ideas which need to go into the bin because they in themselves are toxic.

As I said, I'm slipping under right so let's go to this episode. And enjoy it. Enjoy it. Okay have the best time with summer and I welcome to the show today which we're talking about toxic food and the show is death to die it's what is death to die it's so much in an in.

4:55

It is a series that we are doing together where we explore Our diet culture nonsense. And we are not here to shame people who diets rather we are here to look at the the culture of dieting, and the problematic elements of that. And its intersection with body image and lots of other things. And do you want to do a personal intro first?

5:23

Yeah, so my name is Vinny a Welsby. They them I am a fat non binary incredible human that teaches about fatphobia weight bias, health ism. And I'm friends with some Yeah, that's me.

5:44

I'm a summer in an in she her I am a professionally trained life coach, I specialize in helping people with body image, self worth and confidence, and I am friends with Vinny.

6:00

He will find out quote unquote, toxic food. And there's gonna be a big trigger warning for this episode, because we're gonna be, we're actually going to be talking about food, beliefs around food and beliefs around food addiction, sugar addiction, mentioning what someone eats in a day, we're going to be actually mentioning quantities, and what they eat. And that's going to be in the first section. And then in your section you're going to read,

6:36

yeah, there's some, there's some sound bites from a particular article that was called toxic. That, that that may be, you know, like, just, you know, if you're feeling sensitive, or any, you know, we're going to be dissecting it. But when we talk about some of the quotes that are in the article that I would say that some of that stuff, we're just gonna put a content warning ahead, if you're sensitive to talk about, you know, like, the O word or stuff, you know, that implies that the amount of food you eat, it's going to make your body larger and things like that. So, but we're going to be smashing it all apart. So hopefully, you'll be fine. But just giving a content warning before that, too.

7:21

Excellent. And the reason why we decided to do this episode is quite timely, is that I very excitedly started watching Netflix as I do 27 hours a day of my life. I started watching Jvn Jonathan Van Ness, his new show called getting curious with Jonathan Van Ness Jvn. They are from query, which is another show and you've never seen it. So I can't believe it is but there's like, five seasons.

7:58

I watched queer I like back in the 90s or when it first came out, but I haven't like I like not in the last, like not since that first iteration of it. So Jvn. Like I although I know who they are, you know, you were showing me a picture. I'd be like, Okay, I recognize that face. Not familiar, like don't follow like, just, yeah.

8:21

So you're, you're lucky you didn't have to experience this today, which is

8:27

empowering about it.

8:31

So So Jvn is a non binary, queer, hairdresser, fabulous human. excited for the new show, the new show. first started talking about books was the first episode the next episode was gender, and hair, and then gender.

And then and it was like so kind of deconstructing all of these different ideas and racism and all this stuff. And then the next episode was titled, Why do I love snacks so much? And I thought this would be like an ode to like, a love letter to snacks and why it's so wonderful. So I was like, Oh, great. We're gonna deconstruct the idea around snacks and why we love them and why they're great. And in the beginning of the episode, the first phrase that I picked my kind of red flag waving going off was the phrase, processed foods. Jvn said processed foods and I was like well keep watching. This is not sounding good so far. But then they went to a donut factory. And Jvn was like, oh my god, this is amazing. enjoying eating the donuts. It was cool and magical.

Then they actually saw someone else but then The big chunk of the program was Jvn meeting, a stony faced thin, white, quote, food addiction experts. As soon as I saw this person on the screen with that title, and she was just so miserable as well. Like, you know, I'm here to judge you come on the screen. I was like, Oh shit. Oh shit even not me that title Hey, summer food addiction expert. What that meant?

10:34

Well, that maybe she's hungry. She was why she came on kind of mean, I don't know, I haven't seen it. So I'm just throwing that out there.

10:50

I'm telling you, she is hungry as shit is what she like.

10:55

Thank God. So anyway, the first thing she says, Jonathan, share what you typically eat in a day. And so Jonathan pulls out from our bag, all of the things that they eat in a day. And so skip ahead a couple of minutes here cuz I'm gonna I'm gonna share what what Jvn is. So for breakfast, he has coffee is what he said. And then at lunchtime, he has a small salad. And then at dinner time, he has this small vegan pizza. And then he has some candy, some sweet things. So he says I have a pop tart. A Gusher. I don't know what that is an Oreo. So that is what Jvn says that they eat in a day now summer. If someone told you that's what they eat in a typical day, what would your reaction be?

11:53

Um, how are you feeling? Because that, to me sounds like what, like less food than my toddler eats? I would be absolutely starving. If I ate that. And I know that this person is a grown ass adult. So my guess would be that they're probably starving.

12:18

Yes. And actually, I forgot to mention jva did share that he has a chocolate covered pretzel and he offered one to Stonyface food addiction expert. And she looked like he had just offered her a steaming pile of shit. And she was like, No, I'm okay. I'm fine right now. You know, like put those disgusting. yogurt covered covered pretzels are way You beast? How dare you? I think though, secretly, she was probably like, oh, how am I gonna prep? Yeah, so my reaction to it was like, holy shit. JPN you must be fucking starving all of the work that you do, running around the world. Being Fabulous. Working so hard making these TV shows. And that's all you're eating? And then you're not are you having like coffee for breakfast? Which is I mean, and then and then you're confused as to why that you you might eat sweet things in the evening. I mean, to you and isomer it seems really clear that that Jonathan is not eating enough.

And because of that he because he says he struggles with with binge eating is that he is eating more during the evening, because he's not eating enough. And he's restricted so much throughout throughout the day. So to me, it seems really clear what what needs to happen here.

13:44

It's super Yeah, I mean, it's super obvious. I feel like any, any any nutrition expert, like even if they're kind of in meshed in, in diet culture, like, would still see that there's like an immense lack of, of caloric consumption happening for the majority of the day, and therefore, you know, that's problematic in and of itself. So, yeah, like I I mean, even when, in my dieting days, I would probably be like, That's not like you're not eating. I mean, it's extremely obvious to me now. But I mean, like, the fact that he's working with like, you know, a professional, and they're not identifying that, to me, just seems so hugely, hugely, hugely problematic.

And you think about all the people watching this show, and then thinking, Well, I must have a problem. You know, or like, I should be trying to eat coffee for breakfast only or, you know, all this other crap, like I know enough about Jvn to know that they're a pretty huge influence or like, have a pretty huge influence, right, like a massive following a lot of people look up to them and so to know that you You know, other people are going to see this and potentially then pathologize themselves as being, you know, binge eaters or addicted to food when, what what is just happening is like, a normal reaction to restriction like a normal reaction. Yeah,

15:14

yes, yes, yes. And so. So yeah, what happens is her what she says is very kind of try not to judge him too much for eating all of this quote unquote bad food, she says. So I think we can talk about some of the problems coming from this type of diet. And I, you know, I'm thinking, okay, come on, like, this is your last chance, this is your last year, this is your chance to say, you're not eating enough. Like, this totally makes sense. While you think you might be, you know, addicted to sugar or whatever. And she says, she goes on to say, because my concern is that eating a diet like this is going to catch up to you. I hate that whole fucking, it's gonna catch up to you. Like there's, you know, like, this disease is coming to get you if you eat an Oreo, you know, like, it's gonna stalk you down. You know, you might not feel it right now.

But in the future, you better watch out because if you eat an Oreo, now, you're gonna die, basically. So anyway, she says, it's going to catch up to you. I'm worried about what you might look like on the inside after eating like this. Oh, I just inside.

16:27

Whoa, wow. I think because like, Jvn is really thin, right? Like, are they really skinny? Like,

16:33

no, no. They're not. Very straight size. They're just straight sized.

16:39

Okay. Okay. But nonetheless, if, if, if they were fat. What do you think? What do you think this person's response would have been? Oh, just like, there's something wrong on the inside. Right? Yeah.

16:50

Yeah. Inside and outside, because you're fat clearly. Yeah. Yeah. So continuing, she said, what you just showed me is sending you down the path of having some serious health problems later on. A lot of this food is bringing you down. It's tough. A lot of people in this in this country are in an abusive relationship with sugar. We're finding this O word crisis in our country, where more than half of the country is struggling with being a word or Oh, word. And a lot of that is tied back to the things that we are seeing here. Sugar rich and processed food. You've developed a dependency on these foods

17:47

so wrong. Everything like little thing like half of people are struggling with being fat. Bitch, I am struggling with being fat. I'm fucking out here being fat and fabulous. Ain't no struggle here with me being fat, just like even basic things like that and saying, You have developed a dependency on these foods.

18:11

No, you you're you're hungry. And these foods provide quick energy. And so you naturally gravitate towards them when you're hungry. Like that's basic physiology.

18:26

And so Jonathan said, No, those words, I had to go to rehab before for those words, these feel like such big words. And so even Jvn is like, oh shit, this sounds serious. And then this woman is like, it is serious, and then compared him eating food and sugar to drugs and alcohol. And then Jvn confessed very shamefully that he thinks that he is a sugar addict. And i My heart was just breaking. And by the way, when I first watched this episode, I got to the bit where she started saying the O word. And I turned that shit off when I got straight on Instagram being like Oh my God. And so for for the audience. I went back and watched it again and watch the whole thing. I wrote down exactly what this motherfucking stupid food addicts expert wrote down so you're welcome. I'm traumatizing myself by by looking at that show.

19:33

Thank you for your service.

19:37

The nutrition is then said that the sugar industry is tripping Jvn because sugar masks the bitter taste from chemical additives and dyes and other things that are in processed food. And then Jvn did is this bit this kind of side segment on chemicals. How how how chemicals have long names. And some chemicals are used in other processes outside of food, and are also used in making food. And so if a chemical is used in one process, therefore, it can't be used in food making because that means it's toxic. And science tells us tells us if you can't spell or pronounce a word, it means that it's toxic. Isn't that true? Isn't it that backs? You know,

20:31

I don't even think that they taught us that in nutrition school.

20:38

Is that bullshit? You didn't learn it in nutrition school?

20:41

Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to remember. But I feel like that's probably more of a literacy issue than like, she

20:52

is just such it's just it's one of the things like, oh, this food, it's got so many names that I can't pronounce. Therefore, it's bad for you know, and saying it has built a DA chemicals. Well, yes. Because every fucking thing is a chemical you donkey. Like, come on? Like, oh, my goodness. So food shaming there. What?

21:19

And I think the issue is just that they they like laser and on on one tiny piece of like, this massive puzzle of health. And it's, it's like, if, if that focus was the issue, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, it's a red herring for everything. It's like, let's just blame like, the chemical in the in chemicals in our food versus like, really looking at the big picture. And, and what is what is really contributing to people's, you know, health, ultimately. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

21:57

it is totally a red herring. Yeah. And then actually, someone said to me that this was really difficult when, and I mentioned it to you is that this, this food addict expert, brought out pictures of a brain and saying, like, this is what a brain looks like on sugar. And she said, quote, you're always chasing that high like a drug addict, end quote. And that if you eat too much sugar, you're going to have an abnormal brain. Then she shows a brain, which of someone who has used cocaine, and sugar next to each other. And she said that this eating sugar is a brain condition. And so because she brought out images of brains, that's so convincing, right, so convincing, well, oh, my God, look, it's clear as day someone has, has used cocaine, and it the dopamine is lighting up just the way it does when someone has eaten sugar.

But what they don't show is another slide, which shows the brain when you are hugging a kitten, the brain when you see someone that you love the brain when you have a really enjoyable shit. Because guess what it lights up to, it's our pleasure. It's, you know, what's what's causing us pleasure in lights up. And so they don't show all of the other stuff, they just show the Kokee to stigmatize people who might have addiction issues, and to stigmatize people who eat sugar, which is, you know, we need it to live, it's just up.

23:39

And, like, you know, I mean, you know, how I feel about this. And, you know, you know, we both know how that whole sugar addiction thing is, has been, you know, dismantled and broken down and is, you know, not really a thing. But what is your experience been with clients and personally around this? Because I can see you too.

24:03

Oh, my goodness, that is such a good question. Because I'm telling someone that sugar addiction doesn't exist, or food addiction doesn't exist. It doesn't matter because your experience my experience, your as in people in the world experience is that they are addicted, and I was 100% sure that I was addicted to food because I could not stop thinking about it. It's all I ever wanted. And I was really hyper focused on it. But why might that be summer?

24:33

What could it be that really restricting things? Or did you feel like those foods were bad or forbidden? Oh, I'm thinking

24:42

exactly. Yeah, yes, exactly. What was going on? You see that with clients don't you a lot.

24:48

Yeah. And myself, I mean, over and over and over and over and over. Like I used to be the type of person that was like eating cake from the pan standing in my fridge. Like, why can I stop like I have no control like I am addicted to this. And then when I started feeding myself like a grown ass woman, I just don't like, sometimes I forget about food, like in the fridge, you know, cake is just cake. Like, I'll have some if I want it. And a lot of the time, I'm just like, I don't feel like it because I am fed. And I know that I can have it anytime I want. And I don't believe it's bad. And I have done enough, like unlearning on, like all this bullshit that we're supposed to look at food as if it's toxic and forbidden.

And it's just neutral, like food is just food, there's no, like, there's no morally, you know, superior foods. It's really more about, you know, having a healthy relationship with it. And all like all of this stuff is driven by, you know, our culture's obsession with, you know, being thinner, and like watching your weight, so to speak. And I mean, I just, I've never not seen this, I've never had a client come to me and still be like, I can't stop eating sugar every time it's like, once the foods become, you know, you once the food is no longer off limits, I think is what I'm trying to say. And they get to a point where it's just not a big deal. And they will forget about it or have one bite of it or or eat a lot of it, because they want it and enjoy it and maybe get a tummy ache sometimes. But like that's the extent of it.

26:21

Yeah, exactly. And the big way that we we can know that it's not an addiction is that when you increase your exposure to an actual addictive substance, your symptoms increase, whereas with food or sugar, if you increase your exposure, the symptoms decrease. And so what we need to be doing is the opposite is is allowing ourselves the sugar, the food, whatever it is that we are feeling like we are addicted to. And then lo and behold, turns out we weren't addicted, we were just obsessed, because we denied ourselves so much. Mm hmm.

27:04

Yeah, so a bunch of people called out, you know, gvn, just kind of just speaking to the problematic nature of the episode, especially as it like, really didn't fit with the rest of the sort of series that you're talking about. Right. And they responded and they

27:23

Yeah, and just to kind of wrap up what happened at the end of the episode is, is this illusion to this addiction that he has, is to eat only organic cookies, which has sugar in

27:43

it Ah, yeah, because the sugar is in the form of a syrup, and not white sugar, which apparently is you know, not you know, gonna

27:51

doesn't know the difference.

27:55

And, and also these these, these cookies are good, because good, quite good, because they don't have anything in there that you can't pronounce. So that's going to help with the sugar addiction, apparently. And this says nothing about you know, like, this is so fun. Like that's, that's, that's the thing to do is eat an organic cookie, which of course, are going to be like $75 per cookie board to eat organic cookies. So in a you have a quote unquote, food addiction, or sorry, you're fucked, you know. And then the episode ends with Jvn being at the fridge, opening it closing it debating about having something to eat or not, and then a cartoon mouse saying, Are you thirsty, perhaps instead of being hungry, hungry? And then the resolution is that Jvn decides to have half an Oreo cookie and gives the other half to the mouse.

And I thought that was pretty funny. Because half an Oreo cookie, when really, you know, they wanted to eat something more like that is fit for a mouse, you know, not a human being busy doing life, you know, like, you need to eat some more. Yeah, so Jvn actually responded to Moxie mind, because Moxie mind made a post saying this is fat phobia, and Jvn said, Hi loves, I'm sorry, as someone who is in recovery, I'm learning as I go. It's part of why I explored this in this series. I'm never done with learning on a subject. I'm always going to want to do more. As we discussed in this episode, we have to take the shame and stigma out of this conversation and emphasize it's not about it's not the individual's fault, but an industry wide system that needs so much healing.

So basically, he's saying it's not your fault that you might be a sugar addict. It's the system. There are so many ways to heal and learn I'm not perfect and I'm learning and sharing as I go I could always do better but as they say people are doing the best they can with what they know I've been struggling with binge eating my entire life. I don't want to have a conversation about it. And I'm certainly not done talking about it. I'm excited to keep learning and growing around this topic, heart, love and light. Yeah.

30:10

Yeah. Well, you know, like, at least they responded. And I mean, people will hear what they want to hear when they're ready. And I don't think that you can necessarily force that on people. But it's just unfortunate that a lot of other people probably were impacted as a result of that episode, because it just further reinforces this belief that, you know, there's something wrong with them, and they just need like a different meal plan to fix the fact that they're just fucking starving mentally and physically, you know?

30:43

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people weren't happy with with that response. And, you know, because, you know, Jvn is not saying, I fucked up, you're absolutely right, I'm going to learn from fat, fat non binary people. It sounds like they still believe that they are a food addict, or

31:02

you need, you know, like, how do you I think they're gonna have their own awakening and whatever. Time is right for them? I don't think you can. I mean, you and I both know, you can't you can't convince someone, if they're, if they don't want to hear it. Yeah. And I think it's a hard thing. It's a, it's a hard thing to convince, when there's probably some level of, you know, fat phobia in, you know, inside about, like, you know, I can't like this must be an issue, right? Because the notion of just being able to eat what I want is probably too scary because of the public beliefs.

31:38

Yeah. So I sent Jvn a DM saying, Oh, hey, if you want me to be like, you know, a fat person on your show, then let me know, shoot my shop, nothing probably won't happen, obviously, because they probably don't check their gene at DMS. But you know, you never know,

31:54

you never know, they responded to the comments. So you just never know. But actually,

31:59

you know what some other people have have made posts about it. And Jvn has blocked everyone that's made posts about it. So oh, they only commented on that one. And then the conversation now is shut down. Oh,

32:12

well, they got to manage their mental health. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I feel bad. I don't know.

32:20

Right? Yeah, yeah. That's that. I mean, we've taken up half an hour talking about that matter the show, longer than what the show was

32:32

really.

32:37

around this idea of toxic food, somehow,

32:40

I found a Newsweek cover that said toxic food that came out, I think around, like around Christmas or beginning of January, obviously, like kind of coinciding with the whole diet season. And, you know, it really, it when you when you mentioned this episode to me, I was like, oh, like, we got it. I mean, it's exactly what was in this article, like, essentially, just reinforcing all the different things that that you've said. And, you know, like, when I when I saw it, and I read it, I was like Jesus Christ, like, is it like 1996 called they want their magazine covers back? Like, why are we still talking about the same thing? But like, clearly, like, clearly is not really like the issue, you know what I mean? Like, it's not the, it's not, again, it's like, it's the red herring. Right.

And so, the article really talks about how, you know, ultra processed foods, that's the sort of, you know, label that they've given them are things that, you know, big food, the system, which I used to work for. I don't remember ever being in a meeting room where people were scheming about like, we got to get people to eat more. Um, so you were there. You're like, yeah, like capitalism ramp it and of course, they care about profits. Of course, it's all about the shareholders. Of course, it's all about sales. But I think this idea that there's like these evil like, Masters behind it trying to, you know, I just, I'm not I'm a little skeptical of them. Yeah.

34:29

Yeah. Because they that if you think they're trying to kill people always that it's not a good idea to kill people because then who's gonna eat your food? You know?

34:38

It's an easy it's an easy scapegoat. Because I think I think again, like the problem is much bigger than just this one little piece of the puzzle. And I'm not saying that like, you know, the food industry is all great like that. There's absolutely issues with industry, but but they you know, they echo basically the same things that that you said that, you know, we that these ultra processed foods are designed to directly target the vulnerabilities of the human brain. And that they are, they deliver like a quick signal to the brain's reward system. So many people find them as addictive as opioids or nicotine. But then then they go on to just call them possibly addicted. Like, pick a lane. You know, and, and really just saying, you know, that this is the problem, people can't stop eating them. And the conclusion is that, you know, whatever these food chemists are doing to food is just is, is making people fatter. And obviously, they're talking about that, and in like, a very negative sense, because the article opens up with, please don't read this article, like, it's, it's very heavy on the O word, it's very heavy on the, you know, this is it's your individual problem, that you've gained weight and you're unhealthy. And like, it's it, there's so much bullshit in it, that it's, like I said, it's like 1996 calls, you know, it's like, it's like, so outdated, and in so many different ways. And a couple of things I just wanted to pull out was, you know, they mentioned that between 1980 and 2000. That's when like, obesity began to rock it upwards. Well, do you know what happened in that period of time?

36:33

Tell me what happened that period of time, zona.

36:36

They altered the BMI to lower it to say, Okay, now people over this amount are considered, you know, oh, and therefore, maybe that's why do you think maybe that's why it's skyrocketed.

36:53

Sounds very convenient, doesn't it? That means that people overnight, suddenly became to fats. Yeah, and you know, the skyrocketing a number of people when it's just a category has been changed. And arbitrarily like, the fact that the the BMI is, you know, 2025. Because it was easy numbers to remember. There's no reason it's just because it was an easy number to remember. It's the number five, so

37:21

yeah, mm. Yeah. And also, like, who benefited from that change? You know, pharmaceutical companies peddling waves, weight loss drugs, and? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, the article is quite lengthy. And it really covers a lot of the same stuff that was unfortunately covered in that episode that you watched. And I think that, like ultimately, it's just, it, there seems to be this issue of like, people eating more, but it's like, they never factor in the influence of diet culture. They never influence they never take into account like any of the other variables that might drive that like whether some whether or not someone has a living wage, like what you know, what are their what, what other social detriment? I can never say this word profitably. detrimental. rentals, yes. Of Health, like what are you know what I mean? Like, yeah, what, what, what are these other factors that ultimately have, like a greater influence on someone's health? Like, what role is that playing in, in these increases in diseases? You know, what I mean?

38:38

Yeah, and the idea that, you know, really, what we need to be looking at is, shame, the amount of shame that people are experiencing, and the amount of oppression that they're experiencing, but it's so much easier to say, just an organic cookie than it is to say, um, maybe there's an disparity between how black people experienced health care between other populations, you know, because it's so easy to blame the individual and be like, eating organic cookie when What the fuck is that going to do?

39:11

Yeah, yeah, that's elitist health. Like, yeah. Through and through, you know, that's like the goop world, right? It's

39:19

so good pay. Oh, my God.

39:22

Yeah. Are we just making that a verb now? Like, yeah.

39:27

Is that a would that be considered a verb or a noun? Or an adjective? Yeah, maybe?

39:33

Yeah, it's a word. It's a word. It's a word now that, you goopy, goopy. And you think it's like, a way you know, like with this episode, you see those slides of the brain and then you're like, Oh, my God, it must be real. And you'll see this article that's so long, but so chock a block full of linking through this study linking to this other thing and law or we all know that it becomes overwhelming and then you start to think Hang on. Is it true, and then then you start to really kind of feel that shame and your health is affected.

And the thing is, you know, you and I were able to dissect this and say, ha, you know, let's look at this study, and how many people did they study? And, and what are the factors are going on? And let's look at this, this evidence and see actually, it's a load of bullshit. But other people aren't. Because, you know, for many different reasons, because this is our job, right? And so to say, if you are seeing this type of stuff and feel like Oh, my God, but it might be true. That's, that's a normal reaction to have. And if you have the capacity just to look a little bit into it, or just reach out to someone who does it as a job to, you know, look at this stuff. And to get that reassurance of you're probably not going to die within 3.5 seconds. If you eat a Twinkie, you know?

40:59

Yeah, well, and I think like the, you know, a lot of the numbers that they throw out there, like you said, like, I know, at the beginning, they opened the article saying, I can't remember what percentage they say, but Americans are either diabetic or pre diabetic? Well, we talked about in one of the other episodes, how, like, the pre diabetic, is so large, but that doesn't such a tiny percentage of that actually, of those people actually end up getting diabetes.

And I think, like, one of the things that that also makes me really furious is that, like, they're putting the onus, I mean, they do put the onus back on, you know, like the the food industry to try to do something like they suggest doing what they've done with tobacco, which is to, you know, like, put a warning label on it, or change the way that these foods are marketed. But I'm like, that's not going to resolve any of the issue is like if people can't afford don't have time for, you know, like, fresh for like fruits and vegetables, so to speak, like, convenience foods, keep people fed, you know what I mean? Like, and I just think that there's like, a huge piece of this conversation that gets that gets missed. And people are allowed to eat whatever the fuck they want. Also, like, yeah, people have autonomy.

42:18

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And, and then, you know, it's a lot of it is like a lot of well meaning white people who are like, Oh, my God, these, you know, these poor people, they've only got access to, you know, a quickie mart or whatever. Is that a thing? Is that a thing? Or is that just in the symptoms anyway, they don't have access to fruits and vegetables. And so what we're going to do is we're going to save them, we're going to save them, we're going to go into their community, and we're going to give them a farmers market. And, and it's just so it's so wide. It's just so white people, right, going in there into communities and deciding what we're going to do to fix their problem of disparities in health outcomes, is to give them some farmers markets, fruits and vegetables. It's just like, Oh, my goodness, how patronizing How about paying people? How about not being racist? How about

43:11

doing access to health care?

43:15

Like? No, because we got a farmers market on Saturday. So we're doing good, you know, so we can feel good about, you know,

43:22

yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes, yes. 110%? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, and I don't think like, all things are bad, or all things are good. Like, I think there's, you know, probably nuance within any of these like, yeah, farmers markets. Great idea. And, like, we let's not ignore the bigger, you know, the bigger problems that are really playing a part here. And you know, specifically as it relates to living wage and access to health care, health care, yes. Like that.

43:55

Oh, you know, just giving them giving money to communities so that they decide what is best for them versus, you know, you know, so white British people like me deciding, you know, we know what's best for that community, because we don't so

44:11

yes. Oh, my gosh, that's so so true. Right? Yeah, yeah.

44:16

So to wrap up, we asked our audience about what do they think about the idea that you can be addicted to sugar and what do they think of when they hear the phrase processed food? So I had a few people thinking, processed food meant bad things. And

44:36

actually, I got quite a quite a few of those responses. Yeah, yeah.

44:42

But then I had another people saying this one comment was, I hate it unless you are directly sucking a cow's Tex. All food is process.

44:54

Yeah, yeah.

44:56

And then someone said, Oh, you need to talk about the Yeah, Jvn episode I said I am. And in regards to the sugar addiction, it's not evidence based. And it's a wellness culture lie. Yeah, yeah, I got

45:11

some people saying they feel that way and it is real. And so it I mean, I got kind of across the spectrum so it wasn't all one or all the other there's and and and that's coming from like, you know our audiences where you were really pretty clear on like our messaging but I think that there's still there's still a lot of fear and misinformation and hopefully this episode helps people to want to learn more to want to, you know, debunk some of the stuff to be able to look at the big picture, huh,

45:43

you know who I love that you I don't know if you already follow them? Food Science baby.

45:50

I don't follow them. But I know I've heard of their page. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

45:54

She's still got a little bit of diet stuff to work. She's not at pro diet or anything. But there's a little bit of all but what she does is she debunked all of the you know, oh, don't eat gluten. Don't eat this dead end of that. So it's, it's really interesting, because she's a food scientist.

46:19

Mm hmm. Interesting. Interesting to check that out. Trying to limit how many people I follow because it's just feels overwhelming. Oh, really? Yeah. Like there's probably a million good pages that I just can't. I know. I'm annoying. Can't take it. Yeah, even though the algorithm probably only shows me the same four people over Yeah. Right.

46:39

Totally. can people find you?

46:42

Yeah, so people can find me at the body image coach comm that'll take you to my website and you can find me all over social media. As summer in an inn and my podcast is eat the rules where can people find you Vinnie?

46:57

They can find me everywhere under face fatty. My podcast is called first party website, first party social media first party and go to my website to get some free stuff if you want not the boss have you do what you want?

47:11

Oh, yeah, same same. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks to everyone for being here today. Hope you enjoyed this rich discussion between two highly intelligent individuals who are also extremely good looking

47:24

right. At my reflection, it turns me on it so. Thanks for listening to the episode and if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to phase fatty Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body. Then go to first party.com forward slash waitlist again, that is phase fatty.com. Forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first party Academy my signature program opens