Episode 178 Transcript

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You're listening to the Fierce Fatty Podcast episode 178. Coming to terms with an anti-fat world listener questions. I'm your host, Vinny Welsby. Let's do it.

Welcome back to the show fears fatties and fat allies. So glad to have you here. I decided to cut this episode into two because it got to be so long. So this is part two of listener questions. So, I guess I'll get right into the questions. If you enjoy the show. Donate on Kofi. Kayo FYI, link in the show notes link to everything that I'm talking about. will be in the show notes. 4177 and 178. So if you get confused, and they'll just be there a car? Yeah. Okay, let's do it. Next question us. Do you have any advice for finding a primary care provider or an OBGYN? That won't attribute all my problems to fatness? Marielle. Okay, so, if you're looking for an OBGYN in regards to fertility, we've got Nicola salmon fat positive fertility, she has a book, she's got different things. So if that's part of what you're looking for, totally might not be. But there might be help there. Well, not not might be there's 100% of the help there. And she probably has community and resources. But we do have lots of different lists of weight neutral healthcare providers. In the US, unfortunately, it's very US centric. So there's links to like, you know, Mary Lambert, the singer. She's got a whole spreadsheet of providers. That's been contributed what to by different people. We've got one from Christy Harrison, we've got one called fat friendly doctors got another one fat friendly health care providers. We've got a article from self.com how to find a fat friendly doctor. But let me tell you how I do it is any healthcare need. I have, for example, yesterday, I had my ingrown toenail removed, if anyone's thinking about it, if anyone has chronic an ingrown toenail, going through this procedure, because I don't know what do what you want. But if for me, the thought of it was worse than the actual thing by miles. And I'm not really that squeamish, but I went to the to get a pedicure and there was a new person, they said, It's okay for a new person to do you're a trainee to do your feet. And I said, Yeah, no problem. And she cut down into my nail and immediately some ran over and was like, No, don't do that do do that. And I was like, I know what that's gonna turn into. I mean, you know, it's an oxygen, whatever. So for the last 18 months, I've been dealing with chronic ingrown toenail on my on that foot. And so eventually, I looked in, there's a fat club, Vancouver Facebook group, fat club, Vancouver, just searched podiatrist. Actually, I saw Yeah, per diet podiatrist. And we had some recommendations. Now, I'm lucky I live in Vancouver, live in Canada. So Canada, more likely to find people, Vancouver, big city, more likely to find people. So I go by rapid personal recommendations. So you might not have a fat group in your location, you might not be in a city, you might be in some location. That's, you know, there's only one person there. Are there any groups, Facebook groups, you know, like, any Facebook group that's in your location that you can ask a question, hey, does anyone have any experience with and then put like, thanks, I don't need any weight loss advice. You might not get anything. So some people, they might have choices might have to be found for someone with lots of all these resources that we have. Some you might not depending where you are. You can get there some cards called don't weigh me cards, and they are free. There's a link in the show notes don't weigh me cards. And so it says like a business card and it says please don't weigh me unless it's really medically necessary. You can email them beforehand or call them or whatever. I don't know what I said whether whatever carrier pigeon may or whatever, and say, Hey, I don't want my weight discussed on You can take someone with you to act as an advocate, so that they can say, hey, we're not going to be talking about weight, you can decide that you that's not going to work for you. And you might just smile and nod when they say, did you know that you're fat? Have you ever considered weight loss? You know, and so you might be able to find something if you're in the US probably have a better chance of finding people. And even if people are not expressly saying that they're fat positive, they might not mention weight. So if that's the case, tell people to tell someone who has one of these lists. And yeah, I read that article How to find a fat friendly doctor. So next question. Hello, I do have a question. I hope it isn't offensive. I'll try to word it as kindly as possible. I'm wondering, by the way, it's not really offensive. I'm wondering what you think about the suppose correlation between health and beauty. In other words, a person must be healthy to be beautiful. Is this true? In any sense? This is one justification I have seen used at times to claim that fat people are unattractive people will cite biology as an explanation. We live in a world that is obsessed with physical appearance and ties it to our work as human beings. So that message can cause a lot of pain if one is deemed to be ugly. Sorry, if it's weird, and I hope that I hope I worded it clearly. Thank you for taking the time to read if you got this far. Yeah. So in response to this, you know, when someone says I'm not attracted to fat people, because they're unhealthy, and that is a part of my biology, because I'm a man. I'm an Alpha Man. It's just, it's given me what is it? Jordan? Jordan Peterson. And what's another decade that's in jail at the moment? Can't remember his name anyway, dickhead. Yeah, it makes you think what I've got to do, I got to do with it. Well, I'd have got to do who you want to have sex with. Because you cannot look at a fat person and see their health status. Like I don't know if these people have like these magical goggles that it's like, okay, let's do an x ray and MRI and test the blood and lalalalala you know, when they're like, Atlanta says results come back. And it turns out that that first, that person is unhealthy. They don't know anything person, like someone who's straight size, how can they know what their health status is? What I think what they're people are confusing for health is actually bias. Bias. It's based in anti black racism ableism, colonialism, colonialism, etc. Also, if they want someone who is physically fit, can you know, biology because of biology? Well, fat people can do that too. Right? Fat people are Olympians fat people are athletes, fat people are world record breakers. But if you were to ask that same fatphobia would cite biology. Oh, well then is that fat athlete attractive? Then come up with some other some other excuse outside of how are you? No, no, you know why? And I, you know, I'm just you know, I'm, I'm just attracted to it's, it's bullshit. Is is just bias masked as biology. Really. I was watching this about this British boxer, like, called the Gypsy King. I think he's probably quite problematic. But I watched his documentary about him. And if you saw his body type, you'd be like, No, that is not a fit person. You know, if you saw his body type in your fat foam, you would not think twice you just be like, Oh, he's a tall person. But he's like, undefeated world champion boxer something bla bla bla best in the world ever. Lalala and I find it it's funny because he's a lot of his opponents are all like really buff people. And he's just not let's say he's fat. I mean, like, he's obviously a heavy, heavy person, because he's, he's tall and even if he was fat, but if you think about all right world, strongest men, they have huge big tummies right? weightlifters and javelin throwers. And, you know, they're the best at what they're doing. But no, it's not that type of fit that I'm looking for. I'm looking for like, you know, someone who's like a gymnasts you know?

All so it's not fitness. It's not biology. It's what is that thing called? Anti fat by yours. Okay, so next question. Hey, Vinnie. Hopefully this isn't redundant. This is the last question. By the way. Hopefully, this isn't a redundant question. Also a really good question. Hopefully this isn't a redundant question. Sorry. There's something I hear from a lot of clients is a desire to lose weight, not from an aesthetic point of view anymore, but to physically fit into the world. I have one client in particular who's recently expressed sadness of not being able to write her sister's peloton because of the weight limb It's not going to a Broadway show because of the seat size, having difficulty finding clothing, she's quite tall etc. Of course, I hear concerns like this from many clients. But these are just some recent examples that stick out. I guess the question would be, how to deal with cope with grief, not fitting into the world physically? Not sure. They're not sure there's really a solution. But I've heard that concerns many times. And now it would be awesome to have an episode about it. Sorry if this is redundant, and you've already had similar, similar episode out, Lauren. So I don't think I've had an episode specifically about this. But then again, we're up to 177. Listen, I can't remember the episodes I've done two weeks ago. So unless it's unless the topic is weight loss surgery. Apart from that, I'm like, do the heart because I have like four on weight loss surgery. So it's like, it's in my brain now. But, you know, 177 episodes, I'm like, fuck, what is it I'm talking about. And if I can't remember, sure is shit you don't remember because you know, you're not the one doing the, you know, the research around it and all that it's over, I can't remember you can't remember. So therefore, it's good to talk about these things all the time anyway. So even if I have had an episode about something, I'm happy to redo things, because there might be new, new things that have come out. And also, we forget, right? So to answer this question, this is so hard. And the question being, what do we do? How do we cope or deal with not fitting into the world physically. So this is hard, because life is harder being fat, there's, there's no doubt about that. Also, for me, life is awesome, being fat, in lots of ways, and also harder being fat, and in lots of ways. But thing is, what a lot of fat people hear is, just love yourself, just love your body, and everything will be great. And while that could be true, the reality is that it can be very, very difficult. And depending on your level of privilege, if you have have other historically marginalized identities, then that experience is going to be different and potentially more difficult. And, and so we don't want to deny that that very real reality. For me, the shift was life being hard because I am bad. My body is bad, and I need to lose weight versus society is fucked up. And that's that shifting of the blame was a crucial step. And I did an episode five episodes ago ago, episode one second to the science of protecting ourselves from anti fat bias. So that episode looked at the looked at a study that showed that those who are in a marginalized group this this study, specifically about fat identity, if they were outside of that in group, as in, I'm fat, and I hate being fat, and fat is the worst thing that's ever in the world. Versus Okay, well, I think I can maybe learn about fat liberation and, and maybe I'll go to some fat clothing stores. And maybe I'll join some Facebook groups. And maybe I'll learn how to live in a fat body without shame and stigma and internalizing that stuff. Because you're never going to be away from shame and stigma, right? And so those who were identified with that in group of fat, so people who were like, I'm fat, and fuck it, I don't care what you think. Or even I'm fat and I tolerate my existence. So it doesn't even have to you don't have to even be celibate, celebratory. You can be tolerating your fat identity, versus those who are actively trying to distance themselves and get away from that fat group had different experiences of anti fat bias, one internalized it more than the other and the one who's not in the in group of fat are the ones who internalize it more. So. What I find with a lot of clients that I do one on one work with is a lot of them are in that out group, right? They've been working to get away get away from fatness. Maybe they've started intuitive eating and they've gained weight. And now they went from a straight size person to a fat person. They are not in that in group of fat people like they do not want to be fat. Or they're really struggling to deal with it or they're new to fat acceptance, fat liberation, and haven't got in the in group yet. So the desire to lose weight is normal. It's I mean, if someone was like, you know, I feel bad, I want to lose weight. And I'm like, who, you know, how many people in the world don't want to lose weight? You know, you're a weirdo. You know, like, someone like me, who says, you know, I'm happy to be fat, you know, really, we're a weirdo. Because most people don't want to lose weight, because that's what society tells us to do to people who are in probably feminine, or maybe non binary bodies. And men, a lot of times been told either to lose weight or become more muscley. So what I want people to know is, it's normal to want to lose weight. And also, you have the body autonomy to decide what is best for you. So I'm going to make I've made this little graph, and I'm going to chart rather and I'm going to, I'm going to make it into an Instagram post, which is talking about, like, what could happen if we attempt weight loss, and what could happen if we decide to stay the same, same size. And so why I'm talking about that is, perhaps people are feeling a little bit helpless and frustrated and hopeless. When they're like, Well, you know, the world world is shit. And so, you know, I don't want to lose weight, because of what I look like, because I want to access access privilege, which is absolutely fine and understandable. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about attempting weight loss to access privilege, and what that could look like and the benefits of that. And also talking about deciding to stay the same size or not do anything and you know, you might stay the same size, put on weight, lose weight, whatever, but not attempt, not attempt weight loss. So if you attempt weight loss, you might have temporary relief from anti fat bias. So I would ask you, like if you're struggling with this, maybe you write this down for yourself, you know, you make a little chart of attempt weight loss, don't attempt weight loss. And, and you will be able to answer this much better. In the past, has attempting weight loss caused you to become smaller temporarily. So so write that down, so or maybe, I don't know, like, what is your experience be. So temporarily relief from anti fat bias, okay, so temporary relief from anti fat bias. So if you don't attempt weight loss, there's no relief from your body size.

From anti fat bias from having a smaller body, you can get relief from anti fat bias in other ways, but not because your body is more socially acceptable. So if you attempt weight loss, you might be sad and frustrated, when you gain the weight back. If you don't attempt weight loss, you don't have to deal with regaining weight after losing it. If you attempt weight loss, there's a risk of engaging in disordered eating. Perhaps you've seen that in yourself before. And if you don't attempt weight loss, you can continue to practice intuitive eating. If you attempt to weight loss, you're able to access the world with greater ease, temporarily probably. So you'll be able to buy clothes and fit into chairs and access health care. So that's a benefit, right? If you don't attempt a weight loss, you have to learn how to deal with a world that is anti fat. That's difficult. But on the other hand, the attempting weight loss, you might have to learn how to deal with the world that's anti fat anyway, when you inevitably gain weight back, if you attempt to weight loss, you might be able to access life saving, life saving or changing surgery treatments like IVF treatments, gender affirming surgery, etc. knee replacements. And if you don't attempt weight loss, you you have to fight to find a health care provider who will still operate on you at your current size. And this is harmful and stressful. If you attempt to weight loss, there's more options for people who would date you. But you might be scared that they'll leave you when you gain weight. If you don't attempt weight loss you might be frustrated with with fewer options, and experience stigma. But you might know that your size is not an issue for new partners because they're dating you and you have the current body that you have. You might talk about these things with partners and say listen, I'm fat positive. If you attempt weight loss, you might have to engage in life threatening and life changing means to lose weight like surgery, or injections. And if you don't attend a weight loss, you don't have to risk your well being to become probably temporarily smaller. So you see how there's no like this decision is really deeply, deeply complicated. I don't put for me want to engage in attempted weight loss from Me, I know my history, which is eating disorders, I know the science, which is that, if I do, I will probably be causing physical harm, mental harm to myself. And I will also going to be experiencing harm when the weight becomes comes back on. But also, I am not in need or seeking, life saving, life affirming life changing treatment that I cannot access at my current size, I have found a way that it is tolerable to live in this society, in my current body size, with all of the privileges I have, I am white, I am British, my middle aged, I working class, I am non disabled, I have access to therapy, you know, so I have all of these privileges that someone else might not have access to. And so for someone else who lives next door to me, they might decide that attempting weight loss is the best thing for them. Because it is not tenable to live in a world that is so deeply anti fat, or because they need access to health care. And they can't get that they currently. And all of that is fucked up. Right. But someone said, I someone said on the internet, I can't remember it was like, What is your grift? What is your grip? What is it that you're doing in order to survive? And so the person the PERT, the point of the person's video was like, Girl, women who use their sexuality to get ahead in the world. They said, she said that's their grift. My grift is to choose to not engage with using my sexuality to entice men. My grift is something else my grift is doing this, you know, so for me, my grift is we're literally working in this field, right? That's my grift, Microsoft is surviving by being so deeply in fat liberation, that I can't go down that rabbit hole of despair. And I don't feel that despair, right? And so whatever it is that you decide to do this your choice, right. So that feeling of autonomy is helpful for me. So spelling it out, if life is so untenable for me as a fat person, then I can try and pursue relief. or be it most likely temporarily. Or, you know, you can write out this list and be like, you know, actually, I've decided, you know, weighing the pros and cons that I'm just going to keep going with this and see what happens. Also, I hear from people who are new to fat liberation, and literally don't know of all the resources out there, like someone who's always shopped in a straight size store, and they will think that there is no store that carries fat clothes. And that's not fashionable. They might be like, oh, yeah, I know that there's a store in the in that local mall called Maureen's and it's only close for, you know, 70 year old people and above and it's not really my thing. And so they might have be catastrophizing saying, There's no way that I can live if I can't get, you know, clothes that fit me or if I can't access this on that I can't go on a peloton if I can't go to a Broadway show, what's the point in living and as a fat person I need to become thin. So that that person might not know the resources that fat liberation is have created? And there's lots and and it comes with? Yes. And so, yes, you're probably as a fat person, not going to be able to walk into 99% of the stores and try on a piece of clothing. But yes, and there's also hundreds of stores online. Wait, for example, in that size, diversity resource guide. I had to stop tracking all of the stores that had that carry plus size. But here's another caveat. Up to what point if you're a size 28 or below, then you'll be fine. Or, you know, when I say fine, you'll find stuff. It might not be it's definitely not as you know, accessible and be more expensive. And when I say fine, it's a kind of

your you'll survive. But if you're a poor person and also above a size 28 Then it becomes really difficult. So then again, that's where we go back to, well what are we going to do? Are we going to attempt weight loss are we going to attempt to access the world and find ways to make it easier for ourselves. So holding the holding the unfair and so with this with a clothing example. So, one, it's not fair that there aren't in person stores and to also there may be options that I am not aware of. So another thing I find helpful is talking about privilege. It can be when people are new to identifying with fat, so someone could be fat all their life, but not identify as fat in the liberatory way. So if they're new to identifying as fat, they might not realize the level of privilege that they have. And when they realize how deeply privileged they are, it can help them realize that they can live and thrive as a fat person. And so I will show people the fat spectrum from from Asher the fat lip, so you can just Google fat spectrum, ash from the fat lip, created a post that's been around the internet for years. And so when I talk about myself, I'll say, Hey, listen, I am a medium fat person. And so because I'm a medium fat person, this is how it's difficult for me. And also, this is how life is easier for me, versus if I was a bigger fat person. And also I have white skin and I'm non disabled, etc, etc, etc. And so and then asking, like, how does that make them feel about where they fit on the fat spectrum? If they even do, and this might be difficult, like if you're a protect practitioner, and you're in a straight size body like this might be if you're like, Hey, I'm the size two. And you know, that, you know, a lot of clients might be like, well, thank you. So you might say, hey, something that I've I know can be helpful is to understand our levels of marginalization, and our levels of privilege and to understand kind of like where we fit fit in the world. And one of the resources is having a look at the fact spectrum is anything coming up for you. Another thing are the fears they have based in anti fat bias, like they could be really sad about not being thin because they think they'll never be loved, or will die or will not be able to keep up with their kids and there'll be a bad parents. So what things are based in reality and what things are our fears based in bias? If they're based in reality, can we find solutions? So, a Broadway show? So Broadway show? Can you ask for the accessible seating, a lot of theaters will have wheelchair seating and so it would be appropriate for a fat person to ask for that seating. Something like flying in a plane, ask for a seatbelt extender, or join the group flying while fat on Facebook and get loads of tips from there about what airlines to fly with not to fly with. So for example, when I went to Ireland, I flew with American Airlines, which I didn't know are absolute dogshit for size, they've got some of the smallest seats in the world. I mean, the seats aren't between airlines aren't that dramatically different. They're all tiny. I think American Airlines is 16 inches wide a seat and then other airlines would be 17 or 18. You know, so they're all share basically but also I was sat in one of the seats where they don't have movable armrest and also they have metal dividers because it's at some fancy anyway. And so I had to ask for a C ballistic extender. So if I was in my fatness is really awful stage, that would be devastating for me. But I just was like, Oh, I'm so pleased. I know that that resources available to me. I'm so pleased I not don't feel shame. I'm so pleased that I'm not like putting my safety at risk by by pretending that it's buckled and putting my coat over myself and being like, Oh my God, I hope I don't die. Anyway, so keeping up with the kids as an example. So do you need to match a child's energy level 24/7 To be a good parent? Are Disabled Parents not good parents? Is it true that you can engage with your kids physically? If you are fat, while losing weight temporary help with being a good parent? Or could it be harmful to your kids them seeing you engage in diet culture is having a parent who models body acceptance and intuitive eating more helpful or equally as helpful as a parent who diets but can run for an hour. So some of some sometimes people beliefs can be based in in fear and bias. Sometimes they can be based in reality and if they're based in reality, what can we do to mitigate that? And in some cases, there's nothing that we can do. In some cases, you might go to a Broadway show are an awful Broadway show. And when they say sorry, we've already filled the accessible seating or there is no accessible seating, or you don't feel comfortable to ask for the accessible seating, or you couldn't even get to the Broadway show, because there is no airline that carry someone of your size, even if you bought the first class plane ticket, you know? And so in those situations, how can we what can we do to support our mental health in those situations, right. And none of this to diminish the harm that living in a fat phobic world causes. But just to say that there's hope, life for me as a fat person is harder, in ways that if I was sin, but I would not change it. I hope I'm fat forever. I feel like I am in this cool club. I like being fat. I feel like have access to something the fat community that not everyone has. And that is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Like just last week I went to nettles tail is a swim swimsuit company in Vancouver. And they carry 4x, two extra small. And they threw a pool party. And I went with another fat person who was on the internet in Vancouver and we became friends from being fat people in Vancouver. And and then almost everyone at the pool party was fat. And we ate food and had ice lollipops and was in the water and was like, Oh, where do you get your swimsuit from? And that fat community was so fucking joyful and the thin people who were there, we knew that they were fat positive because they were talking about fat liberation. Like, how cool is that? And that's, that's, you know, that study that I was talking about from the episode. That's that, that study about being in group. So, you know, I want to say and I there's hope and hopefully things will get get better. I mean, they have for me and they have for a lot of people that that I talked to and, and also, it's called, you know, it's fine if you want to sit in the suck. Right? Because it's not fair, it is not fair, that fat people die because of fat. Hey, if you want some pepping up, go, there's a Instagram post, it's gonna get a link in the show notes, which is doobly doo 28 benefits of being fat, including, well, the first one being part of the fat community, all of it. Easy to find in a grout, belly shelf, a snack shelf, bigot filter, screen out the fat phobic of your body. decrease mortality, better cancer, survival rates, strong, more tattoo space, stronger pounds less at risk of osteoporosis, soft and cozy. So you know, it's not all shit. I think fatness is fabulous. You know what one that I love, there's a phrase, it's from a poem made of waves and honey, made of waves and honey, I think about thin bodies. And I think about you know, the horizon is a straight line. Just like you know, maybe thin bodies more have more straight lines. And that's a part of nature. And then waves hitting the shore. So curves and, and a honey dripping down is beautiful.

Isn't that a beautiful visually interesting. And the mountain some jagged edges and, you know, meadows and hills and maybe softer. And that for me that waves and honey is just so beautiful. And when I see my back rolls, that's what I'm thinking. I'm just like, Oh, it's so nice. Like, like kind of that fat coming down my back like this, too. I've got two rolls on each side of back rolls. And I'm just like, it's just like if my back was made of honey and it was just dripping down. That's what I wish for everyone listening is that they? They can see you know the world in their body. And see it's just part of human existence to to be the way that we are. All right. So end of the episode. That was the last question. Great question to end on. If you appreciate this episode, and would like to support fab liberation, go to Kofi and choose a level that feels good to you. And you'll get some from some free stuff on printing already. Then after that, thinking about the waves and honey. And if you ever have any questions feel free to email me or send me a message on Instagram My assistant will check them out. And so I hope you have a wonderful fat positive rest of your day. And I'll see you in a while and again to stay first fatty goodbye.