Episode 140 Transcript

You're listening to the Fierce Fatty Podcast episode 140. Do you have body dysmorphia? Or is it weight bias? I'm your host, Vinny Welsby. Let's do it.

Welcome to this episode, so pleased to see ya. How you doing? It's life. Okay. My life's good. I just bought a bday. Oh, it was amazing with a BJ. Or as some folks call it a budu. Day, I think that's more of an American thing. Say, buddy, I got it from tushy you might have seen the adverts around around the place. And I got it on sale for 96 American doll hairs. And it's normally like, I don't know, 150 It's the one with hot water as well as cold water spray up your bum hole. And just like an FYI, if anyone wants to buy a one I was worried about the. So if you look at the thing to tyshee, buddy, now that I'm saying it, your device is probably hearing me say it, and it's gonna advertise it to you. I don't know if that's true. But anyway, anyway, there's like, you stick it in your toilet. And it there's like a box that comes to the side. And I was like, well that I'm I'm gonna sit on the box, I know because my bum is bigger than the toilet seat. And it's gonna hit this thing. But on the tishie thing, when you put it onto the seat, it goes underneath the seat underneath the bottom of seat, it actually has like a snake I type slots where you can slide it across. And so I slid it across. So it's not center on my toilet. But it's not didn't it didn't actually look center, but so that the box was slightly to the right even more. And so my almost almost doesn't, I guess it can touch it a little bit, but almost doesn't touch it. And so if you are bigger than me, so I must size US size. 20 ish. And obviously, everyone's leg and bum wits is different. And it's a control panel. That's what I'm talking about. It's a control panel. So if you're worried about that, then you have a little bit of adjustability on that. And I mean, I've had it for a day I installed it yesterday, I felt like a plumber extraordinaire. extort, installing it like yeah, pretty. It was you know, relatively easy. And my water pressure in this apartment is so strong. So when I first use it, I was like, oh, lash X. The it's like, you know, when you watch those videos on YouTube of people doing power washing, and their power or power washing, like the pavement or whatever. And my water pressure is so high. That's like, what what my,

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what my day might be day is it's not that hard isn't obviously not that extreme. But

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yeah. So I'm sorry if I need to power wash my asshole. Then there you go. And you can like wiggle around and do other areas too. So I was like finally because I have IBS. And I was like I don't want to be like wiping my bumhole all the time. And so this is an alternative. So yeah, anyway, a little bit of be day by day news for you. Yes. And so today, and by the way, hey, hey, if I told you this already, I have told you this already. But if you don't remember telling me this. And if you don't have it. There's a browser extension extension called Honey, listen, I'm not I'm not sponsored by Toshi or honey, you can probably get a if you can't get the sushi in your area for a good price and just get something of Amazon is cheaper, right? Whatever. But this is browser extension called Honey, it's free. And it will pop up. You install it and then it pops up when you're at a checkout. So often, I'll get a discount. So my the tissue was actually cheaper, because then like the honey popped up and it was like some random discount code that I wouldn't have known about if it wasn't for honey. They probably like selling my data to someone else. I got the cheaper bday am I going to get cheaper? clothes shopping and cheaper or most everything the only thinking just work on is DoorDash. So food delivery, because they're probably like, we're onto your ship, honey. You can't use it doesn't work here. Yeah, anyway, so get honey if you haven't already not sponsored. Yeah, so why don't you talk about body dysmorphia disorder today? Because I've never actually spoken about it, which is, I'm surprised I haven't. What it is how is it related to weight bias? Is it caused by weight bias? Is it totally unrelated? And as well because, you know, we, we are in the world of, of body positivity, and a lot of folks say, just love yourself, I did it, so can you and then you look at them and they're thin and conduct conventionally attractive and neurotypical and white and non disabled and rich. And just like, wow, yeah, I wonder why you led to be able to love your body. Yeah. And so like, Is it as simple as choosing to stop hating yourself? Or could that could there be actually something else going on. And if I think sometimes, if you're really struggling with really, really disliking your body, then there could be something else going on. So, body dysmorphia, I am going to go to the DSM five, the DSM is the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders. And so it's in there. It was in the in the number four and I don't know when it was in there before but it is a obsessive compulsive, the class of it is obsessive compulsive disorder. And so this is from the DSM five A preoccupied preoccupation with one or more perceived defects or flaws in physical appearance that are not observable or appear slight to others. At some point, during the course of the disorder, the individual has performed repetitive behaviors. Example mirror checking, excessive grooming, skin picking, reassurance seeking or mental X example comparing DSM why you're not gender inclusive comparing his or her or they're comparing their appearance with that of others. In response to the Appearance concerns. Their preoccupation causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other areas of function. Their parents preoccupation is not better explained by concerns with body fat or weight in an individual whose symptoms meet diagnostic criteria for an eating disorder. So this is not an eating disorder, because of worrying about being fat, or worrying about weight. It's a it's related to an obsessive compulsive

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type of disorder. So and there's we've also got muscle dysmorphia, and that's the they say the individual is preoccupied with the idea that their body build is too small or insufficiently muscular this specifier is used, even if the individual is preoccupied with other body areas, which is often the case. Also here we've got indicate degree of insight regarding Body Dysmorphic Disorder belief. So some people might have fair insight, poor insight or delusional beliefs in regards to their bodies. And so with good or fair insight, the individual recognizes that the body dysmorphic disorder beliefs are definitely or probably not true, and that they may or may not be true. With poor insight, the individual thinks that the body dysmorphic beliefs are probably true. And with absent insight or delusional beliefs, the individual is completely convinced that their body dysmorphic beliefs are true. So that's a lot of kind of that's from the DSM right. And so his kind of the layman, the layman what it is, and so it's a mental health condition, where someone spends a lot of time worrying about their quote flaws or their perceived flaws. And anyone can have BDD, but it's mostly it's more common in younger people. So teenagers and young adults, affects all genders. And it's not about being vain or self obsessed. It can be something that has a really big impact on your life and can even lead to suicide. So it makes people feel embarrassed and shit ashamed and anxious. And may they may avoid social situations. And so there's a lot of that repeated checking the mirror or grooming or seeking assurance for many hours a day. Yeah, so the symptoms and so how I'm going to list out the symptoms here on include links to everything that I'm quoting from. This is the symptoms here, being extremely preoccupied with a perceived flaw in appearance that others can't see, or appears minor, strong belief that you have a defect in your appearance that makes you ugly or deformed. Believe that others take special notice of your apparent parents in a negative way, or mock you engaging in behaviors aimed at fixing or hiding the perceived flaw that are difficult to resist or control such as frequently checking the mirror grooming or skin picking, attempting to hide perceived flaws with styling makeup or clothes. constantly comparing your appearance to others frequently seeking reassurance about your parents from others, having perfectionist tendencies, seeking cosmetic procedures with little satisfaction, and avoiding social situations. And so with BDD, it seems to be that you focus on maybe one body part more than others. And the most common areas are face nose, complexion, wrinkles, acne or blemishes. Then it's hair. Its parents thinning and baldness, skin and Vayner parents breast size, muscle size and tone and genitalia. So I am here thinking about this from a I'm I'm thinking about this from like a social justice issue. So this is a mental health condition. Right. And I'm thinking about the the other the other thing, the the definition of atypical anorexia in the DSM and anorexia, and there's a typical anorexia, a typical anorexia is the exact same as anorexia, but there's a weight there's, like anorexia, Anorexia, and a typical or atypical is for fat people. Because we have to have create a whole separate thing, because is the only thing in the in the DSM, which has a weight limit to it, which is hopefully going to change because I mean, it doesn't matter what your weight is, if you have an eating disorder, you have an eating disorder, right. And so with this, talking about the symptoms, and it's, it's all kind of like, perceived flaw, and

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not noticeable to others. And I wonder about who decides, you know, body image standards, right? Who decides that, that that nose is too big? Who decides that that that skin is not good, that that that someone weighs too much, etc, etc, right? Like, they're these these things are influenced by, by outside forces? And what if, what if the person who has BDD is fat? And they are extremely preoccupied with the floor, quote, floor of their fatness? Would that be encouraged? And I mean, the answer is, for some folks, it has been, I know when I was in it and just disorder world. When I went into the doctor's and had lost a lot of weight. Of course, he was like, Oh, my God, keep doing what you're doing. What am I doing? Not Eating Enough food. Having an eating disorder. So. So with with when we're thinking about weight stuff, when we're thinking about body image standards, this kind of gets a little bit more cloudy, not in regards to, you know, the person feeling this way, but maybe the way that we treat folks who have BDD as if they're conventionally attractive perhaps Perhaps folks would say you're just being so vain. There's nothing wrong with you get over it. And so not being sympathetic or understanding that it's a mental health condition. And with with folks who have quote, be quote here, real flaws. Whether that be being slightly chubby, or having parts of themselves, which is not the white, European standard of beauty, so maybe having a bigger nose or, or darker skin, for example, would that obsession with those areas be more encouraged? If someone was very, very fat, someone was a supersized fat person. And their whole life was about them thinking about their fatness would a a therapist, psychologist, whoever say, oh my goodness, they really preoccupied with this thing, because if the therapist sees that as a real flaw, then would they see that as then a negative behavior? It's just interesting, right? Yeah, so the prognosis, BDD. Body Dysmorphic Disorder usually doesn't get better on its own. If left untreated, it may get worse over time, leading to anxiety, anxiety, extensive medical bills, severe depression, and suicidal thoughts and behavior. With most of everything, we don't really know what causes it knows there's different things that are risk factors like having family history of it and having having a mental health conditions like depression or OCD. Yeah, but no one's really sure. Treatment Treatment for BDD is going to therapy CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, and sometimes also medication like SSRIs, sometimes people will need to go into inpatient treatment. So with CBT, it's it says it's the only psychological treatment that's been proven and support supported by research, but it can be hit and miss. And it focuses on changing the thought and behavior patterns triggered by the condition. Your therapist will help you identify situations that cause anxiety, and develop healthier coping mechanisms. Through CBT, you can learn to step outside of yourself and view your body through a more objective and forgiving LAN.

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So what about the intersection of BDD and anti fat bias? So is BDD informed by anti fat bias? Are they completely separate? So let's hear from some people who have BDD. So I don't have BDD never had BDD. No experience with that, myself. But I, I suspect a lot of people who are struggling with body image stuff, a lot of people might have undiagnosed BDD. And with most mental health conditions, people are like, Okay, so what's the difference between disordered eating and an eating disorder? What's the difference between not liking myself and having BDD or something else? And what therapists say is that it's how much it is affecting you and disrupting your life. So if you were like, I don't like my body. And I, because of that, I think that if I walk into a restaurant, everyone's going to be staring at my nose and thinking it's too big, and they're gonna be laughing about my nose. And in fact, I don't want to go out or do it all day long, I spent thinking about my nose, like, I look at my nose in the mirror all the time, I got plastic surgery, and that still is still I don't think my nose is is right. Um, so I'm gonna get another procedure and I constantly need validation from people telling me that my nose is okay. So see how that is. That is, you know, that's a lot that's kind of like taking over someone's life. Where is it? Where it's like, the difference would be like, Yeah, I don't like my nose and I don't feel comfortable, you know, seeing it in pictures. And if I could fold it, I guess I'd have surgery but you know, it's one of those things. means I don't love it, but I'm going to get on with my life. I'm not going to stop living, but I might be known to be a little bit conscious of it. And so that probably wouldn't be to the extent of having full blown BDD. But that doesn't mean that that's not also you know, not a great feeling and sucks, right? And, and also, therapists you know, a lot of a lot of folks don't like having to, to label people. But in case you're curious about that, and it same with things like I've I don't know, I have an eating disorder or disordered eating, and it's kind of like, how much does it affect your life? What's going on? Yeah, so let's go to Reddit, the body dysmorphia community on Reddit. So that was a discussion that that I enjoyed looking at and so the discussion was the the title of it. Body Dysmorphia is a form of fat phobia. So the person says, So I saw this similar topic in a suburb for eating disorders, which I also follow and I'm wanting to know your thoughts. I saw a popular tweet recently, they said that body dysmorphia was actually fat phobia. So I'm just going to pause here and say what we've got is two separate things. The first statement is body dysmorphia is a form of fat phobia. And then the second line here is body dysmorphia was usually fat phobia. I tried to find the original tweet thing this is from a year ago. I couldn't find it. So I'd love to know what it actually said. So we've got kind of two definitions of what it said, Body Dysmorphia is a form of fat phobia, and body dysmorphia was fat phobia. Okay, so the person can continues this is wrong on so many levels, and it has loads of likes. How I perceive my body is no way affects how I see other's bodies because mainly, it's not just my body is every inch of detail I perceive to be wrong no matter what my weight is. I've never once projected my body issues on to another person only perceive myself as disgusting. Do you agree? So one of the first comments is, I'm not sure if the term fat phobia is used as a term for irrational fear of body fat in oneself or others, or the social stigma or fatness? Regardless, it isn't a diagnosable disorder. This is correct. So fat phobia isn't in the DSM because and so this is interesting, because you know, so that even the word fat phobia, so fat phobia is kind of falling, falling away a little bit. Some folks in the community and also some folks in the disability rights community

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say that we shouldn't be using the word phobia, because phobia is actually a mental health condition. And really, what we're talking about is hate from a social justice standpoint in regards to hate of a group. And so some folks will say, Okay, we need to use the word, you know, fat Hey, anti fat bias. Other say it will for some folks, it definitely is. It definitely is to that level where they are obsessed and they really are afraid and anxious and it ruins their lives thinking about being fat and getting too fat. And so I think, you know, using different words for different situations of when I think about the troll on the internet, who says fuck fat people, that person is obviously hates fat people, and they are steeped in anti fat bias. And, you know, anti fat bias can be used for individuals to absolutely but I also because I've seen it right, I've seen it with clients, that palpable kind of so powerful, deep fear of fatness meaning something about them as a person, you know, I chat to people I'm like, what does it mean to be fat? Like, what does it mean about you? And never have I heard that it means Oh, you know, just it just means I have a bigger body. And these are from people who are struggling, right? This is not from you know, people who are Who are recovered from fat phobia? Or anti fat bias? It is. I'm a bad person, I'm a failure. I'm lazy, I don't have my shit together, I am unattractive. I'm unhealthy. I am an, I'm embarrassing, and

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you know, like, the list goes on. And so but then also is it kind of like when you think of a

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phobia, like a lot of times we think of people, you know, be, you know, screaming and running a run away and avoiding certain parts of life to avoid that, that phobia. And, and so I don't think folks are not having that reaction of like, you know, being terrified and running away, but in other ways, they are terrified. So I it's, I just find it really interesting to think about. So anyway, continuing. So this person says regardless, it isn't a diagnosable disorder. That is correct. I think it would fall under different things. So BDD, on the other hand, is a recognized mental disorder. With diagnostic criteria and treatment recommendations. There is literature and studies is also a key feature in BDD is its connection to Oh, C, D. And the fact that people seem to have issues with reading faces properly. I don't know what someone would be hoping to achieve by trying to muddy the waters on what BDD is, but know that it's that it's true recognize and diagnosable disorder a no stranger on the internet has the authority or capacity to define it as something that hasn't been accepted and replicated by the scientific community. So I guess what this person is hearing is the person who'd made the original tweets who I you know, I can't find the source, but they were saying, BDD isn't real, that you just need to learn to love fatness, and you would not, you would not have BDD. I don't think that like there. This is there. The first persons the first person to comment, that's what they're reading from that post. I'm reading something different. Because I've got obviously, a different perspective. I didn't read it as BDD isn't real. I read it as BDD is, has a big fat phony fat phobia component, something like that. That fat phobia is a part of BDD is what I've read is from that thing. So I don't know. Someone commented, someone commented commented, they're not seeing BDD as a compulsive thinking disorder that it is, like, I'm sorry, my brain got brainwashed by Instagram models and my boyfriend's porn watching history. And now I have a compulsive tic in my brain that tells me, I should hate myself for not being an Amazonian Goddess from the islands. So so this person is saying that they got brainwashed by Instagram models and their boyfriends, porn watching history. And so that goes back to Okay, so why is the boyfriend watching certain porn with probably very unrealistic depictions of humans, right? And Instagram models? Like, why are I'm presuming that this person doesn't say it, that they're thin Instagram models, right? And so why is it that we are holding thinness up? And so would this be the same if this person happened to have grown up in a fat positive household? I don't know. Like, you know, this is a mental health condition. Right? And that can as we know, from before, we don't really know what causes it, but, uh, you know, if we lived in a fat positive society, would it have would it? Would it have shifted into perhaps, I'm not fat enough, or some other perceived flaw because if we lived in a fat positive society, you bet, you bet. Capitalism is going to create something else for us to hate ourselves. Right? You know, it'd be like your ear lobes are too long to grow. So have you seen your ear and I was looking at these Instagram models and their perfect ear lobes, you know, it'd be something of, you know, something else that we'd be

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we'd be focusing on and no doubt a lot of the other comments are like people saying that their body dysmorphia is centered around their face and so it's got nothing to do with fatness. So someone else said, I think I saw the same tweet and it annoyed me a lot. They say the same about eating disorders and how you can quote cure your To disorder by confronting and dealing with your internalized fat phobia was, which is absolute bullshit. It also simplifies BDD to be just about thinking you're bigger than you are forgetting that people have different types of BDD, facial, muscle, muscle, etc. Some people are very insecure about how thin they are, too. It really annoys me when people make someone else's mental illness about themselves. So with this, this that response, I'm, I mean, they say the same things about eating disorders, how you can cure your eating disorder by confronting and dealing with your internalized fat phobia. So with eating disorders, and with any with BDD, disorders that focus on body and food, we they are not created in a bubble, right? They are informed exactly what we're just talking about. Even if we live in a fat positive society, there'll be something else, right, there'll be some other focus, that society says we need this, and some folks will struggle with that because of mental illness. Mental health conditions can be informed by the society we live in. Right? And I'm not saying created or anything, but but we are complex individuals. And, and so understanding like with an eating disorder, that it's not made in a vacuum. Where is this coming from? Why do we think that eating certain foods or not eating certain foods or having a smaller body or etc, etc, etc? is better or worse? And, and also, what else is going on? Right, what else is going on? And so I think personally, that there, they're, they're, they're intertwined, right? I don't think that BDD is like a manifestation of fat phobia. I don't think so. But I think what we are focused on is informed by a society that says, thinness is better that says whiteness is better, that says, being non disabled is better, that says, European beauty stare, ideals is better, etc, etc, etc, right? It can't not be because we've got these beautiful brains that are like hi, I want to fit in. And there's a mental health condition going on to

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this one person says I agree that it doesn't have to do with fat phobia, and this is total misunderstanding of the disorder. My own body dysmorphia is triggered intensified by lots of different things, many of them having nothing to do with body fat. If I feel that a certain haircut alters the way that I look in a way that is out of alignment with how I feel about myself, this causes the same level of distress and ways of thinking that have more body fat than I want does. Same with having less body fat than I want or less muscle or more muscle or clothing that doesn't suit me or makeup that doesn't look the way I want it to etc. It's not about one specific aspect of the body like fat, and I don't dislike body fat on other people or even on myself it's way the way I want it to be. I'm attracted to a lot of people who would be probably considered Oh word. If I felt that having more body fat wasn't in line with how I feel about myself then I would want more body dysmorphia to me it has to do with something about the body not being in alignment with this spirit, and obsessive compulsive desire to make it come into alignment and fear that you won't be able to which causes excessive worrying, fixation on and magnification on all things that are quote wrong. I think there's definitely a component of lack of body acceptance and body positivity, and being exposed to fat phobia can exacerbate it. But most people I know with Body Dysmorphia are not fat phobic, and are generally body positive towards everyone but themselves. For me, I often feel like I'm the only one with a fucked up body. I see everyone else skinny, fat, muscular etc as having quote normal body's Body Dysmorphia tells me that mine is not and everyone will notice that is not normal. I know it's I know that it's distorted thinking, but your mind makes it real. Someone else's comment says I know there's an immense amount of shame around this this disorder. But I think it can be a positive thing to really look critically at the way BDD affects not only our perception of ourselves, but others. And I think the truth for most of us is that we do value appearance more highly than others. And we do notice and make judgments based on that. Those judgments are much much more centered on self and others and I can't speak for everyone but I think most people with BDD are noticing flaws in others. However, I think that we are much more forgiving of these flaws in our loved ones than ourselves. I don't know about y'all. But a big part of BDD for me is that I feel inherently unworthy in a way that I don't feel about anyone else. So I hold myself to an appearance standard that is higher than my loved ones, because I believe if I could reach that, I would be worthy. Like them something I think here as well is it, it sounds like a lot of folks with BDD is focusing their focus on themselves, right. And these perceive thought flaws in themselves. And weight bias, as we've discussed in the podcast before, is there's there's the different levels of bias, and it can be in interpersonal, intrapersonal, institutional and ideological right. And so you can have a ton of weight bias, and that could be something that you're just throwing on to yourself. And that's a lie, I see that a lot is, is fat folks saying, I think other fat people are good, and great and wonderful, but not me. And so I can see, then they're, they're further along in their journey of unlearning fatphobia. And then the next step is to, is to understand it and accepting it themselves, themselves as a fat person, and their body and all that type of jazz. And so the step before that is thinking other fat folks unattractive as well as themselves. Right? And so it's so easier to extend grace and compassion or humanity to other people to when it goes to ourselves. Were pieces of shit, right. And so I think that some of these comments are kind of missing that, that, that we can still think of that we can think fat people are great. And also, we can still hold weight bias towards ourselves and still hold internalized privilege. If they have small bodies. No wonder like in the future, if the DSM is going to have some type of thing about fear of fatness? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, so I mean, I wonder like how you're feeling how you're How are you feeling? How are you feeling? Are you kind of seeing that? Oh, yeah,

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actually, you know, I thought that I just needed to kind of unlearn fatphobia and I could learn to love myself, but turns out from what you're saying, Vinny that there might be something else going on, alongside or separate from struggling with with anti fat bias? And, or maybe you might be like, You know what, I think I think I should just, you know, see how it goes on learning, fat hate and see if that helps. And that might be valid for you. Yeah, so I think that our society helps inform what an imperfection quote is, and fat phobia is part of our society. Also, here's another thing to think about is that there could be something else at play. So for example, that there was that one comment or saying about the haircut not feeling right. One time a trans person asked me, Do I have gender dysphoria? Or do I have fat phobia? And I was like, I don't know. It's complicated. Do we live in an anti trans society? Do we live in a fat phobic society does not being able to be your true self and look the way that you want? As a trans person also caused dysphoria? Yes, yes, like yes to all of that. But what I do know is that we all hold anti fat bias. Everyone, you know, even me, it might be, you know, layers and layers and layers deep that I've, I've excavated, but there'll be stuff that pops up and I'm like, Oh, hello, anti fat bias. There you are. So we can't ignore unlearning that shit. And if that helps with how you feel about your body, wonderful, that's great. That's perfect. And if that's what you needed, perfect, great, perfect, perfect, great, great, great, but also, it could be that you have something else going on that you would benefit from going to therapy for if that is available for you. And I also think that with the CBD CBT that folks do in therapy and the treatment that people who have EDS go through that there should be a lot of support in normalizing a variety of, of bodies. And we know that in a lot of eating disorder treatment places, there is the, you should put on weight, but not too much. You don't want to get fat. And I think that's deeply unhelpful for people who are afraid of, of being fat and getting fat and being out of control. Right. So I think unlearning systems of oppression is always going to be helpful in many places in our lives. And I think here, particularly so, you know, and as well, you know, like, we're gonna say systems of oppression, too. It's like, you know, you're focused on on, you know, your nose not being the right shape, or your, your, your skin doing this or whatever. And it's like, where does that idea come from? Is it just something that your brain has just picked out of nowhere? Or has it been informed by other things? If it has been informed by other things? Can we help our brains support them in getting new beliefs about big noses being absolutely boss, and fatness being cold and fineness being cool and not having muscles or having having a big belly or whatever it is? That that's just a normal part of having a body and it's all great, you know. And my story was, you know, like I mentioned, I don't have BDD I never did. My, my story was that a lot of my body hate was fat hate, like, I didn't like myself, and it fucked with my life in a big way. But it wasn't to that in as we mentioned, with BDD, that kind of obsessive and the checking and all that type of stuff. And I personally just needed to be educated on weight science and detangle, my fat phobic phobic thoughts, and that was really, really helpful for me. And it made it so that I just was like, Yeah, I've got a body, whatever.

Unknown Speaker 42:03

But that's because I didn't have a mental health condition. Related to this, I mean, had other stuff going on, but not particularly, you know, related to my body, and the way that I viewed it. So I mean, it's complicated. And I want folks to be able to get support, if they need it, and if they can, and I know a lot of people probably can't afford to go to therapy. And, and I was looking at this one, one article, it was saying kind of like things outside of therapy, even though they're saying therapy is the most helpful. And the only thing that's evidence based for BDD, there were there was another article on that was on a eating disorder website. Was it centers for change? Yeah, a sense of change. And they were saying things like unlearning, unlearning, what what word did they use? And I was like, oh, that's different. Fat. ism. fattism. I've never I've never heard someone call it fat ism before. And learning fattism and learning diet culture and and I was like, Oh, shit, okay, Centers for change. Because normally eating disorder places and maybe not as recognizing that type of thing. Yeah, let me see what the other things I said. Actually, the other things I say is except genetics, the most most of what you look like is determined by your genes. Understand that emotions are skin deep. So if you're saying, I feel fat, it's not really about fat, even if you are fat. Question messages portrayed in the media? Yeah. Recognize the influence of body misperceptions. In here, they say women are prone to more negative feelings about their bodies and men. In general, women are more psychologically invested in their physical appearance, your body image is central to how you feel about yourself. Because women are objectified to the max. Research reveals as much as a quarter of your self esteem is a result of how positive or negative your body image is. And they say that there's this distortion in the way that a lot of people can view themselves. And they say, befriend your body. So do like body image work. So I mean, you know, I'll link to that in the in the show notes. First party.com forward slash, Oh, 140. So go check that out. And I mean, even if you do have BDD, I think there's no harm and also, I mean, I think when I say no harm, I think it's a good idea to also try and unlearn any fat hate that you've got simmering there. If that's something that you can, you can identify and sometimes it takes time, right to to recognize how we are fat phobic. It can take, you know, doing some of this work first maybe with a therapist and then being like, Ah, shit. Yeah, that's why I think that and it can take time to an earth those those biases that come up. So yeah, what do you reckon? Do you? Do you feel like you kind of recognize any of those those symptoms or signs? Or do you think that? Are you feeling good? Even good about your body? Are you just here for fat politics? Or like, what is what's going on here? Are you, hey, is something that I've been thinking about? For like, six months ish, is I don't know if you've seen a few few people going on holiday, going on holiday with their followers, their community. And a vacation by the way, if you're like, what are what are you talking about? And so this company approached me and called trover trip, like, six months ago, and was like, Oh, do you want to go on vacation with your, with your community? And I was like, Yes, question, Mark. I don't know how I can make it work. I don't, I don't. I have a lot of hesitation. So my hesitations were that I wanted to be fat positive experience, right? I don't want to be you know, because what they do is they will create the holiday, they handle everything they book, the itinerary they pick where you stay, they get the they book, The the van, if you go in somewhere, the bus or whatever it's called. And, like, Is it is it gonna be inclusive, and actually, they're really social, social justice, focus. And so they've got a few places that are 100%, inclusive, they've also got places inclusive for

Unknown Speaker 47:04

folks with disabilities. And also they've got places which they call body positive. And and then you can, I mean, I can say, Okay, so we're thinking about going and doing a pottery class or scuba diving or whatever, go and ask your people on the ground? Are there going to be seats that fat people can use? Are their wetsuits that come in this size? Are their life jackets, that what sizes do they come in, etc, etc. And they were like, yeah, that's, that's literally what we do. I was like, Oh, shit, okay, so I've been waiting for my PR car to come back from the Canadian government. It should have been back like, five months ago, I was gonna go surprise my sister in the summer because she had a better human come out of her and I was gonna go and surprise her and, you know, terrify her and rip her stitches and all that type of stuff. But my thing didn't my thing hasn't arrived. And so I'm gonna go for Christmas anyway, blah. bluh bluh bluh is what I'm saying is, I am going to send out a survey to see where people want to go. If you want to go where in the world you would like to vacation? What types of things would you like to do? Do you ever want to go with me? I'm like, no one would want to go with me and some people are like yeah, they would and I'm like, I don't know I don't know. And I think he'd like the the theme could be fat joy. And, you know, us just just being fat and being fucking amazing. And in and not necessarily people who are not necessarily like you have to go out there and wear two Doritos to cover your nipples and you know, flush everyone your fanny. Just say like, Hey, we're fat people and we're just living life even though we might be scared even though you might be anxious about going to the beach even though it's scary to meet new people. We're going to do it anyway. And we're not going to let the way that society views fatness stop us or the way that we're viewing our own fatness stop us. And I think that that would be really amazing. Factually, just when we like fuck it with fat with fuck, society says that fat folks can't be a martyr and just hang out with each other and just have some fun and I also was thinking, I was talking to Lauren feelgood dietician. We work together on stuff. I do coaching in a program. She's great, by the way. And she went to Italy she took her people to Italy, and she said that she did like almost an activity every single day and sometimes some days they had activities in the morning. They were driving on a bus somewhere, and then an activity in the evening were little Like, I was like, I just want to be a bit more chill, more kind of like beach time. You know, maybe like a day at the beach and then the next day, a pottery class or the next day a there's all in the one that I'm looking at is Sunset scuba diving boat tour, how cool would that be? And then, you know, relax at the beach, and then it evening dinner out. And I think you know, make it more more relaxed. And so we can not not having to run around everywhere. And also, wanting to see what folks is mobility is and what people want to do so that we are able to accommodate everyone. So I was on this call with, with other people who were doing it and one of the people because they work with lots of different people. One of the people was a crossfit coach, and she was like explaining her vacation, and I was like, that sounds fucking awful. She's like, we started vacation by waking up at 5am to do some CrossFit. And I was like, Oh, no. And then she said at the end, which I mean, fine, whatever. Look, some people love that. Right? Even, you know, even I'm not saying that people don't know if CrossFit family wouldn't like CrossFit. For everyone there might work what walking, waking up at 5am, whatever, you know, blah, blah, blah, but yeah, and then she says, Oh, by the end, I thought we'd be working out every single day, maybe a couple of times a day. By the end, people were saying that they didn't want to work out anymore. I was like, because then the her activity she says we had some really intense activity to like hiking up mountains and stuff. And I was like, Oh God, like I love a nice hike. I like you know, doing these things. But I don't want to go on holiday to wake up and do a CrossFit session at like 5am like, No,

Unknown Speaker 51:50

not for me, it might be for some people, but that's the type of holiday that I don't want. So just FYI, if you are the kind of Let's wake up at 5am to do a mountain hike, Andy did it at a you know, maybe like, you know, a nice walk in the afternoon or something like something like that, you know, sipping margaritas by the pool, whatever. That's the type of thing. That's the type of thing and you know, going on some scuba dive scuba, some snorkeling or whatever is a skier or snorkeling home, they probably have to train us for scuba anyway. So just an FYI. You If even still listening to the episode, I don't know I'm just rambling on about shit. So let me get on and let you go into the world and have a great rest of your day. Wherever you are. I hope you're okay and that you're feeling happy and good. And honey, is that name of the extension? Toshi is the name of the spray the the water hose spray that's connected to my asshole now forever. Yeah, I mean, people can come up to me and they can just, they can just inspect my asshole and be like, Wow, did they have a bad day? You're saying? Look at that last haul. I'm gonna eat my dinner off. That's my life now. So look at you. But sometimes I think about like, if I was to be run over by a car today, and people had to cut my clothes off. I'm always like, I'm like, so good. Like, underneath my clothes today like this underwear. So cute. They're gonna be like, well, or sometimes I might like oh, you know? I don't tend to have not nice underwear. I kind of like having nice underwear. Or you know, like, I was like, oh my my pubes are all over the place today. But you know, it's just like, who they don't no one would no one would even though is maybe they do I don't know. If I have this accident I know if nurses are going to be measuring the length of my pubes who the fuck knows? Because they definitely don't have better things to do than measure register random versus POS. Oh look at there are so on but like Oh, definitely be de owner. Yeah, is it just me that thinks about that? Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay, so well thanks for hanging out with me today. I want to see you in a why y'all alligator say face hottie be. Perfect.