Episode 141 Transcript
Read transcript alongside audio.
Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're listening to the Fierce Fatty Podcast episode 141 listener questions. I'm your host Vinny Welsby. Let's do it.
Unknown Speaker 0:24
Hello, welcome to this episode fatty and fatty allies. So great to see ya. Just want to do a land acknowledgement. In case you don't know where I am, I am in Vancouver, Canada, which is the traditional ancestral and unceded territory of the Coast Salish people, slaver tooth Musqueam nations and Squamish peoples love it.
Unknown Speaker 0:53
And hello.
Unknown Speaker 0:56
I always talk I always just get into the episodes and just start talking like we're best friends. But you know what, sometimes people don't know who I am, where I live, what's it all about? And because you don't Hey, I, Vinny, my pronouns are they them. I am a trans non binary person, I, British Irish, I've been living in Canada for 13 use.
Unknown Speaker 1:21
I'm a fat activist. And before doing this work, I was an adjunct professor at University of British Columbia in the business school. I was in corporate recruitment for nine years.
Unknown Speaker 1:38
And what else I
Unknown Speaker 1:42
also do diversity consulting alongside my activism stuff, and I have a dog called Google. And that's it. That's everything about me. And
Unknown Speaker 1:55
I am currently
Unknown Speaker 1:58
have blonde, whitish hair, I'm a white person. I'm fat, like a medium fat got red lipstick on with a blue denim type shirt buttoned up all the way and some round tortoise shell glasses. I've got green eyes,
Unknown Speaker 2:18
big issues,
Unknown Speaker 2:21
and teeth.
Unknown Speaker 2:23
So you can see if you're watching the video, but you're not watching the video. There you go. That's who I am. Okay, so today, I want you to do listener questions. And actually, we've got so many questions that I'm going to do a two parter. I love it. When you send me questions, send me questions, do it. My email is
Unknown Speaker 2:41
fatty, at first fatty.com.
Unknown Speaker 2:47
And my admin, my admin superstar person is going to pick them up and then put them into a document for me to look at and answer if I think that
Unknown Speaker 2:59
people would like to hear the answer.
Unknown Speaker 3:03
So we've got a few questions here. Today, I'm going to give you an overview we've got we're talking about pregnancy, we're talking about how to call people in and out. We're talking about trans stuff. And we're talking about a badly behaved mother. I haven't read all of the, the the email bits I got like the jest, and was like yeah, okay. So all right. Now, the first question we have here is, do you have any scripts for calling in? Slash out? Anti fatness in the moment just from regular people or people not necessarily from a doctor or anything? Excellent question that is from me yell and someone else has asked a similar question, which is, how should I respond to fat phobic statements from people? There can be subtle or really blunt fat phobic statements, I would just like to be equipped with comebacks when I feel like responding.
Unknown Speaker 4:03
Excellent, excellent, excellent stuff. So first, I just want to explain calling and calling out. So calling in is something that is potentially a little bit more gentle. And something if you are wanting to maybe continue relationship, establish a relationship where the common is not necessarily as egregious, maybe you're ready to do a little bit of educating. So calling in would look like maybe taking someone aside and saying, Oh, hey, you know, when we were in that meeting, you said that thing and actually, what I learned about that thing is it's we don't really say that word anymore, or whatever. I'll give you some scripts in a minute. But it's kind of more of a Oh, hey, you know,
Unknown Speaker 4:50
what did you mean by that? Or what was your intent, that type of thing more kind of like, if your friend kind of said something and you're like, oh,
Unknown Speaker 5:00
I know that you're totally cool. But sometimes we say something. So a friend would probably be like calling you out. And you'd be like, thanks. Calling in sorry. Calling out is more urgent calling out. So calling in is private more often than not calling out is public calling out could happen if calling in hasn't worked. So as an example, you know, the the incident with Linda Bacon, maybe you don't, but Linda Bacon, member of the health every size community wrote the book health every size was called out. Because they for for bad behavior. Linda Bacon uses a them pronouns by the way.
Unknown Speaker 5:42
And the calling out happened
Unknown Speaker 5:47
with people making public statements, and the calling out happened after the calling in didn't work. Now you don't have to call in someone first. It depends on the situation, you could just go straight for the calling out.
Unknown Speaker 6:04
It totally depends on on a million different factors. So calling out might be, say if you're in a meeting, and someone was like, oh, fat people are ugly. And you're like, Whoa, that was egregious. And you could like hey, actually, that's not cool. Don't talk about fat people like that. You giant Ding, dong.
Unknown Speaker 6:27
Ding along dangling, dangling, dangling you ding dong, ding a ling, or ding along ding along we might have a new word.
Unknown Speaker 6:37
And so it's more urgent. It's more about safety.
Unknown Speaker 6:41
And it's all more about disrupting power. Okay. Or car. All right, so so so so, as you wrote about this in my book, my book, I've just picked it up. I was like, where is it copied? Why is the copy of my book not around? And I think it's because I feel I feel good about my book at the moment. Well, I haven't felt good about my book in the last couple of years, because there's a couple of things in there that I don't like, I think I used a word in there that I don't like, I think I use the word tribe, which is not appropriate. I am not a I'm a white person. I'm not from any First Nations indigenous communities, or I should not be using that word. And 2018. When I wrote the book, I obviously didn't know that. So there's a couple of other things. I just, I don't know, I'm beating myself up a little bit anyway. So I found it on my laptop, that the copy that went to print. So
Unknown Speaker 7:35
in my book, what to say. And so we've got a few different scenarios. So if someone says you're fat, if someone says you should do this, don't do that, as you should eat something or don't eat something. A person says, Oh, my God, have you lost weight. And so what to say in those types of situations, and we'll talk about more kind of day to day what this could look like. So
Unknown Speaker 7:56
some of these things, you'll be like, I would never say that. Some of the things you be like, yeah, that's, I could say something like that. And I could tweak it to make it sound like me. The idea with this stuff is to get a few word tracks in your brain, or even like put it on your phone or whatever. That sound like you that you would say. So you know if someone says something fucked up, and your normal response is maybe to be a bit of a plea people, please pleaser. Hello, that's me.
Unknown Speaker 8:29
And I'm like, Hey, you should flip a table and then like, do a roundhouse click kick in someone's face and then clothesline them.
Unknown Speaker 8:39
You might be like, well, that's great. And all I'd love to clothesline, someone but that's not my style. And so we have to make it sure make sure that it aligns with your style and what is accessible to you and what feels good. Okay, so quoting from my book, I'm quoting with the obligor. Who, apart from online criticism, you may find that those in your real life see I don't like that. See, pass veneer don't like that. Real online life is also real life and possibly, thank you future Vinny. You're welcome. You may find those in your day to day life or in person life are quote concerned about you loving yourself. So I have created a list of sassy, badass, easy ways to respond when people are throwing shade. About your appearance, your food choices, your lifestyle decisions, I shouldn't say throwing shade either.
Unknown Speaker 9:27
Of course you have. You have to say anything. Of course you don't have to say anything to anyone. But if you want to take a little sass from here, so this is kind of like you know, if you want to be a little bit, you know it kind of like fuck you.
Unknown Speaker 9:39
Okay, so if someone says you're fat, you can say, I know. Thanks for noticing. Don't I look gorgeous? Oh, wow. I'm so glad to meet my own personal dietician. Please tell me more about the nutritional value of kale.
Unknown Speaker 9:57
I'm so sorry. You have to degrade people to feel better.
Unknown Speaker 10:00
After about yourself.
Unknown Speaker 10:02
It's interesting how you think it's appropriate to comment on my body. I like that one.
Unknown Speaker 10:09
Do other people know that you're this rude?
Unknown Speaker 10:13
With the are you pregnant? Question? Yes, I had Mexican for lunch. So I'm expecting the arrival of a healthy 10 pound burrito sometime this afternoon. I have kept that a one in the back of my brain for so long now, and no one has asked me if I'm pregnant in like,
Unknown Speaker 10:32
maybe three or four years like before this way, maybe four or five? Yeah. What are we 2020 So for us, so like, in four years, none was asking me if I'm pregnant.
Unknown Speaker 10:42
So rude because I'm I'm so excited to come up with that one being like, the baby's due tomorrow, my giant shit is going to be arriving episodes soon.
Unknown Speaker 10:54
The last time someone the last time someone asked if I was pregnant, I was in a mall with my then boyfriend. And
Unknown Speaker 11:02
they were like, You know what, there's like little stores that are selling shit. And they were like, oh, here have some like herbs and stuff. And definitely you want it for the pregnancy. When's the baby? And I just walked away. I was like, No. And then. And then after that, I was I went to
Unknown Speaker 11:21
a haunted house amusement park thing for Halloween. And I went through and the I was given them my ticket and they said, you only have one ticket here. And I was like, Oh, yes. You know, everyone else has their own ticket. And he then he started putting it in my belly. He's like, don't you need a ticket for two? And I was like, Oh, no. And just went through it. But I mean, like shit.
Unknown Speaker 11:48
wides what? why would why would people do that? Why? Anyway, so yeah, burrito for the for the pregnancy.
Unknown Speaker 12:01
So if someone says you're fat Did you really just say that like a really or I am so proud to be fat and fierce a baby. So someone says you should do this or don't do that. Raise hands to your eyebrow pretending to look for something in the distance and say, I'm sorry, I was just looking for who actually asked for your opinion
Unknown Speaker 12:24
is cool how you think you know more about my life than I do? Please do continue.
Unknown Speaker 12:31
Remember when I asked for your opinion? No, me either.
Unknown Speaker 12:36
If I wanted to hear from an ass I'd fart
Unknown Speaker 12:40
I'm not interested in listening to people's opinions right now.
Unknown Speaker 12:46
I only listen to advice from people who pay my bills. You don't pay me you don't get you don't get a say that's like a report. If though if a report quote quote which is a what is it off the top of my head if those bitches don't. If they don't pay your bills, pay them bitches no mind.
Unknown Speaker 13:08
Why do you think it's appropriate to tell me what to do?
Unknown Speaker 13:12
If someone says I'm concerned about your health, then say if you were really concerned about my health, you'd be concerned about my mental health too. That's another one. I go. That's another one. I go back to a lot.
Unknown Speaker 13:23
I appreciate that. You're concerned about my health. My health also includes my mental health. So
Unknown Speaker 13:33
if someone says oh my god, have you lost the way
Unknown Speaker 13:37
you look so
Unknown Speaker 13:39
when people compliment weight loss, you don't know what you're complimenting. You could be complimenting an eating disorder. You could be complimenting an illness. You could be complimenting cancer, you could be complimenting grief. You could be complimenting
Unknown Speaker 13:52
you talking about someone's body. Start doing it. Okay, so am I gonna have you lost some way? Change the subject? Totally. Nice weather today.
Unknown Speaker 14:03
Oh, Sweet baby Jesus. I hope not. That's my go to is I hope really? Do you think so? Oh my God, I hope no hope not. I love being fat.
Unknown Speaker 14:12
No, but I look good, don't I? You know, it's probably all this happiness from not dieting.
Unknown Speaker 14:19
You could just say no.
Unknown Speaker 14:21
Well, do you monitor my body weight a lot. It must get tiring keeping tabs on me like that.
Unknown Speaker 14:28
I'm too busy being fabulous to notice my weight.
Unknown Speaker 14:32
Do you think it's appropriate to comment on someone's body?
Unknown Speaker 14:35
Not if I can help it
Unknown Speaker 14:38
is weight loss, something that's important to you? Because it's not to me, or the one you can use in any situation. Go fuck yourself. So they're some kind of sassy ones. But what I tend to do is a
Unknown Speaker 15:00
If you do want to call people out and I've spoken about this before have, you do not need to it is not your job, you are not being paid to educate people unless you are.
Unknown Speaker 15:12
You don't have to do that. If you are live in a big in a big body, I mean shit, this, there's so many things going on already that you have to deal with that having to deal with
Unknown Speaker 15:23
idiots who were like, Oh, you're fat, or I love diets and whatever, is it's exhausting enough. And if you choose to just be like,
Unknown Speaker 15:33
see you later and not deal with it, and then afterwards be like, Oh, I'm so mad about it. And that's absolutely fine. Or even in this situation, you could feel like I'm gonna say something and you could just be like, Oh, I don't know what to say, you know, sometimes, sometimes, situations like this. I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but you're just so riled up that you just want to cry, and then you start talking, then you just start crying. And you're just like, Oh,
Unknown Speaker 15:59
that was me. And
Unknown Speaker 16:03
I'm sad. And you're just and then afterwards, you're like, Well, why couldn't I communicate coherently then. And it's because so much is going on in your body. At that moment of when when when someone says something that's really awful. Our brains are in Fight, fight, flight freeze for and chances are that your heart is beating faster, when your heart is beating faster, your breathing becomes shallower, your breathing becomes shallower, and your brain is like oh my god, we're about to be eaten by a tiger, what are we going to do? And your brain is not as well equipped to be able to be like, Okay, let's assess the situation. Let's go back to that episode. 141, I think it was from, from fears fattie. And remember all the things that they said that I could say and I'm going to very eloquently and in a balanced way, say them to this person who is causing me harm. Like, if you, if you get to that point, it means that you have practiced this stuff a lot. And even I will get flustered from time to time if someone is saying stuff that maybe, you know, it makes me really mad or, or I've not heard before, or subjects that I'm not as familiar with.
Unknown Speaker 17:24
But with stuff like with fatness, most of the time, I'm just like, so used to the talking points that it becomes second nature and I don't need my body doesn't react in that way. But that's only because of the the the fact that I do this for my job, right.
Unknown Speaker 17:45
So normally, what I do is I try to understand where the other person is coming from in regards to like, why are they saying that? Are they saying that? Because they want to say a joke. They wanted to connect with me? Are they saying that to directly hurt me? Are they saying that? Because they're talking about themselves?
Unknown Speaker 18:08
How much? How much capacity do I have right now to engage them in a conversation? Like, for example, my neighbor, she's a 70 year old woman. She's really cool this like feminist, great choice in movies.
Unknown Speaker 18:26
Anyway, I love talking to her. And then I bumped into her and she's like, I'm just gonna go have my breakfast for breakfast. And I don't know why the fuck I said this. I said what you haven't for breakfast? Why did I do that? I should not be asking people what they're having for breakfast for a mean different reasons. But I was just like, Oh, I'm gonna go and have breakfast to you know, what are you? How are they? And then she said, Well, I used to eat this. And I said, That's what I eat for breakfast. And she says, but then I know I don't eat that anymore because it's got too much sugar. And I was like
Unknown Speaker 19:02
well, I just done a sugar episode on the podcast. And, and so I said, What do you mean? I know what she meant. But I said, What do you mean? And I said, Oh, is it that you fear that? Do you fear that sugar is bad for you? She says yeah, oh, yeah, here it is my said, actually, you know what? So this is this is the work that I do. And I literally just recorded an episode on sugar. And actually,
Unknown Speaker 19:26
we don't need to fish sugar and you're not addicted to sugar because she's like, she's like, I can't have sugar in it in my house. I will just eat all the sugar. I'm out of control around sugar. She said all that type of stuff, right?
Unknown Speaker 19:40
And,
Unknown Speaker 19:42
and then I said, Do you know what's not true? And she was like, really? I was like, yeah, and then I just left it left it at that because I could kind of see that she was kind of like bullsh.
Unknown Speaker 19:54
I'm gonna continue to get engaged in a conversation.
Unknown Speaker 19:58
But I might also in that section
Unknown Speaker 20:00
ration if she was like, sugar is bad, I might just be like, yeah, totally see like a baby.
Unknown Speaker 20:05
And she because she wasn't saying, Vinny, you're a piece of shit because you eat sugar she was, you know, it's about her, it was about her. And maybe in the future, I might talk about things with her. And she's actually said a couple of things that I was like,
Unknown Speaker 20:21
when she she talked about being afraid about getting fat
Unknown Speaker 20:24
twice.
Unknown Speaker 20:27
And it didn't, it didn't. When she said that it wasn't followed by, which is fucked up. Because, you know, I know that's, that's my own weight bias and Lola, and I was gonna bring it up with her later, but then I was like, Ah, fuck, I can't be bothered. Anyway, so she's the only person in my life currently who like kind of believes these types of things. And, and because she's so cool, I really like her.
Unknown Speaker 20:52
I will persevere up until that point. So, so come up with a few different ways, whether it's like, questioning them trying to understand their intent, or straight kind of shutting it down.
Unknown Speaker 21:09
Another thing kind of the I will go to is, the one that I go to is, I just want to be nice and kind to people, even if I don't understand them. And so
Unknown Speaker 21:23
when people are like, wow, in immigrants, or these people, or that people or whatever,
Unknown Speaker 21:31
I just think it's best in our world to try and be kind.
Unknown Speaker 21:37
And it's hard for people to say, No, we shouldn't be kind.
Unknown Speaker 21:44
I mean, it's hard. It's not impossible, it's certainly more like fuck them fatties.
Unknown Speaker 21:50
And, and that's when, you know, if I'm flustered, and I'm just like, I don't know what to say, I just say, I just want to be kind to people. And if people, you know,
Unknown Speaker 22:00
do this or do that I, you know, I just want to respect them and be kind, because that's important to me, that's one of my values.
Unknown Speaker 22:09
That's when you know, I want to have a conversation with someone, sometimes you just have to shut that shit down. So an example of me shutting something down recently was, there's this guy that is in my neighborhood. And he hangs out and he barks at people who he perceives to be women with who have dogs.
Unknown Speaker 22:30
And he's done it to me a number of times. And then he's like, laughing with his mates.
Unknown Speaker 22:40
I think he's probably got, you know, mental health issues and, and whatnot, but it, it makes me feel really uncomfortable. So anyway, I was like, Oh, my, this motherfucker. And I was talking to my therapist about it. And I was like, Well, I don't want to say anything, because I don't want him to be sad, because he's probably got mental health issues. And I don't want to be like, you know, you're a bad person. Because what if he then means that he's like, going to be sad, and then die. You know, my words are so powerful that I just got killed people on the street.
Unknown Speaker 23:10
So eventually, I saw him, he was like, harassing this woman that was at a coffee shop this this older woman at a coffee shop. And I walked by and he turned around him, he started barking at me and I said, Stop harassing women in the street.
Unknown Speaker 23:24
So that was me calling him out. That was loud enough for people to hear.
Unknown Speaker 23:29
And I mean, it wasn't like public in the, you know, I wasn't going on the news being like, man, but you know, barks at women.
Unknown Speaker 23:36
But
Unknown Speaker 23:38
I was firm, and I wasn't calling him in calling him him in would be me saying, Excuse me, can I have a conversation with you? Why is it that you're barking at people in the street? Why? Why is it that you're, you know, standing waving at a woman who is trying to ignore you and drink a cup of coffee? Like why? Why is it that you're doing that? I chose not to do that. I just went straight to call out, he shouted back at me and says, I'm not barking at women, women, your your dog is not a woman is it? I'm barking at your dog. And I was just carried on walking because I wasn't interested in engaging with him, but I just wanted to stand up to him. Afterwards, I felt terribly guilty, which I shouldn't have because I mean, he was badly behaved.
Unknown Speaker 24:18
Yeah, but I had had that line in my brain ready to go for when I saw him next because I had I knew I'd be mentioned within him next.
Unknown Speaker 24:29
And it was ready.
Unknown Speaker 24:32
And and basically, in other situations, I'm leading with curiosity of trying to understand the person
Unknown Speaker 24:39
for me, I find that I find it really interesting like with my my dad who died in in 2018. He was like, Oh, I don't like immigrants and I don't like this and that and, and Britain was better when I was younger and and over like, but why like, why don't you like in Britain, so because they're coming here and doing this and that and I'm like, Well, I'm an immigrant.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
and Canada. Oh, but you're a good immigrant. Why? Well, because is it because I'm white? Well, yeah. What is going on? Like, what's underneath that? What's what what was what was happening anyway and got to the bottom of it, my dad was like, I was just happier as a younger person. And there happened to be less diversity within our culture when I was a younger person. Therefore, I'm correlating it with the increased visible diversity that I'm seeing on the streets. I'm less happy now. Therefore, it's because of these people being present in our community. And I was just like, well slam dunk, and I was like, Well, this is it. This is he's like, Yeah, I still don't like him.
Unknown Speaker 25:46
Never got to him got him to change. And he he died. So there we go. Anyway, so next question, let's move on to I'm struggling with my fertility treatment being denied on the NHS. And the question of do I try to lose weight or not? Not that I want to lose weight. I'm happy as I am. And healthy to boot. So that's from Rebecca. Oh, my goodness. That's just so
Unknown Speaker 26:15
one of the first episodes of the podcast I think the only guests I ever had on the show was Nicolas Salman. Because I don't know why. I don't know. I don't know. Not that. I don't know why I had it. But I don't know why I started having guests because I was always like, I don't want to have guests because
Unknown Speaker 26:32
I can't be bothered to like book people or whatever.
Unknown Speaker 26:35
Anyway, I had Nicola salmon. She's great Nicola salmon, salmon on the Instagrams is called fat positive fertility. She's got a book, she's got tons of resources. In her Instagram link, she's got fat persons guide to getting pregnant for free. You can work with her in many different ways. You've got one on one coaching, one off consultation sessions. They've got a community fat and fertile Alliance and, and free workshops. Nicola is amazing. She's British, so she'll know about the NHS and all that type of jazz. In short, this is a really tricky question, because
Unknown Speaker 27:16
it means it's just so fucked up. There isn't the evidence to show that?
Unknown Speaker 27:26
Why why are we denying people with a certain BMI IVF treatment, just because it might be ever so slightly less effective.
Unknown Speaker 27:39
Like, and the stats are Nicola will be able to talk about this more, but it's like,
Unknown Speaker 27:46
tiny change tiny
Unknown Speaker 27:49
changes with between BMI categories. And so they're just like, Fuck it, if your BMI is this go by. It's just so awful. And it's eugenics.
Unknown Speaker 28:00
But what can we do if we are living in that system? And what can we do if we don't have the money to go private? And so with Rebecca, I don't know, Rebecca situation, Rebecca might have the ability to go privately for IVF. And privately, there might be clinics, I'm not sure of Rebecca's BMI that will take on that There are clinics that will take on higher weight patients, there might be areas within the NHS that take on higher weight patients. Now, I'm not an expert in this area. But I know certain places are more kind of cut and cut and dry. And some places might have some more flexibility. And so it might be a case of asking, Are there places in the UK that do take higher weight patients for IVF treatment? Which is not fair? I mean, it's not fair because that means that you might have to travel outside of where you are, which is causing an extra stress for you. And it's work that a straight sized person is not having to do and it What if they say no? And then you have to go private? What if he can't go private? So then the question is, do I lose weight,
Unknown Speaker 29:12
and some people may decide because of all of those barriers, that they are going to temporarily lose weight. Put that body into a disease state potentially if they go and get stomach amputation or squeezing surgery,
Unknown Speaker 29:35
set their body up to be in not the best condition to get pregnant in the first place. Because if you are losing weight, your body is in starvation mode.
Unknown Speaker 29:44
With all the trauma that's happening and all the worst out health outcomes that can happen from intentional weight loss, so that you can go to the doctor and be like, I lost the amount of weight that you told me to get the treatment and then let your body do what it is.
Unknown Speaker 30:00
Gonna do which is put the weight back on and more probably some people do that because they have no other choice literally being held hostage to do this awful thing that you don't want to do and you are healthy that you spent the Rebecca saying I'm healthy to do it
Unknown Speaker 30:21
is absolutely outrageous and a manifestation of eugenics policy, stopping fat people from having children when it's not evidence based
Unknown Speaker 30:37
makes me so mad.
Unknown Speaker 30:40
Gonna have a deep breath. Okay, so go check out Nicola salmon and I bet you she is going to be like okay a Bish bash Bosh this is what you want to do
Unknown Speaker 30:51
and especially in the UK and
Unknown Speaker 30:54
she also did a workshop with Regan Chastain which was fat healthcare summer workshop series report reproductive care for that patients with options for weight inclusive reproductive care. And I bet you can get a replay of that and Reagan's in the in the US so for the for those who are in the US, maybe Canada, and I'm not sure about other countries.
Unknown Speaker 31:18
But I mean, Jesus is fucked up. I feel for you I really do. I can't even imagine I cannot even imagine and also having to make that decision to to maybe engage in disordered eating to become thin temporarily to please this doctor
Unknown Speaker 31:41
makes me want to it makes me want to do a clothesline on someone.
Unknown Speaker 31:47
Yes, okay, so
Unknown Speaker 31:52
I need to
Unknown Speaker 31:55
so bad I'm so mad. Alright, so Melissa has emailed have any love your podcast like yay.
Unknown Speaker 32:07
What are the Melissa's questions is? How can I reframe my thoughts? When I think that everyone is staring at me because I'm fat, and judging me for being fat? So we did a whole episode about this.
Unknown Speaker 32:23
Let me find out what it was what number Hang on.
Unknown Speaker 32:27
Okay, so it was episode one to one seeing people have to go after gaining weight. And I talk about
Unknown Speaker 32:36
fearing judgments, right? judgments. Thing is also if you think about last episode, is it body dysmorphia? Or is it weight bias?
Unknown Speaker 32:48
Here I'm gonna kind of raise that of
Unknown Speaker 32:52
if you are actually someone living in a smaller body, I've no idea, then could that actually be body dysmorphia? And if you are a fat person, I mean, it could be as well if you're a fat person, but if you are a fat person, that that fear that fear, depending on your size, especially if you were a larger fat person could be legitimate, that people are staring at you because you're fat and are judging you, right. And we know as fat people that happens. And so
Unknown Speaker 33:25
I have a thought i People are staring at me because I'm fat. Maybe people are but also maybe people aren't. But what can we do? What can we do? And maybe like is it to the extreme where you're like, every single person is like, oh my god, there's a fat person or call the police. There's a fat person walking around the streets. And you think that every single person walking by you is just horrified and thinking, Oh, God, they're fat. And they're unattractive because they're fat. That's probably unless you're walking, I don't know, on Miami Beach, or I don't know, walking in a fashion show for thin people and all of the thin audience hates fat people. I don't know. Like, it's probably not realistic that every single person is
Unknown Speaker 34:17
awful. You know? And, you know, you don't have to be awful to have fat phobic thoughts about fat people. I mean, it's just a case of
Unknown Speaker 34:27
living in a society but
Unknown Speaker 34:30
it's natural for humans to notice other humans, right? And if, if another human is slightly more visually interesting, depending on whatever, they're a wheelchair user, they have a new visible text or something or, or they have a different hair color or they've got a big beautiful Afro or they're fat. You would probably notice them, right?
Unknown Speaker 34:58
But I I want you to
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Think about what you're thinking when you see someone who is a supersize fat person, or a fat person, or a smaller fat person, or any other person who might have a marginalized identity. What are you thinking? There might be a moment of, oh yeah. And if you are struggling with a lot of, you know, judgments about yourself, then you might be thinking negative things. But even if you were, if you did see a fat person and you thought negative things,
Unknown Speaker 35:30
you're not probably going to go home. You know, call up your mum or your mates and be like, guess what?
Unknown Speaker 35:38
I just saw a fat person walking down the street. Can you believe it? You're not gonna go, you know, to diarrhea at the night, Dear Diary, fat people exist, and I'm mad about it is a fleeting thought, unless there's something bigger and deeper going on.
Unknown Speaker 35:57
And so can we survive that? Can you survive knowing? Some people might look at you and say, I don't like that.
Unknown Speaker 36:10
And also, can you come to terms or realize that most people
Unknown Speaker 36:20
are probably going to be on the spectrum of just noticing you not noticing you not caring? Or being in their own head thinking? That person just looked at me? What was he thinking? Do they think that my my nose is too big? Do they think that this could do I have a camel toe today? Oh my god, does it? Do I stink? You know?
Unknown Speaker 36:46
The truth is, it's probably kind of like Shades of Grey, right? And there gonna be people being like, this person looks good. You know, you're walking by and they looked at you. And you might be in our heads being like, Oh, God, what are they thinking? And they're like, No, I wish I could look like them. Or, oh, they look happy. Or, or look at their shoes. You know, that could be thinking something positive. And the thing is, we can't do anything to change that. Right? Even if you know, I walked out on the street right now in a split crotch bikini with a peephole bra. People are gonna be like, Oh my God, you look awful. People are gonna be like, yes, you go for it. Oh my god, I love it. I love that you're showing off your nips, and your flaps. Some people are just gonna like someone walking around a bikini, whatever. Some people are gonna be like, you know, I wish I could do that. Some people are gonna be like, Oh, thank God, I'm not that fat, you know, and that's got really nothing to do with me, but their own self perception.
Unknown Speaker 37:51
Now, don't think that you're probably walking around in Split crotch panties. And a peephole bra. You probably walking around and you know, just average clothes. And so there's probably not going to be like shock and horror, when you're walking around.
Unknown Speaker 38:08
So we have to decide, are we going to let the potential negative thoughts of people stop us from living?
Unknown Speaker 38:17
Hopefully, the answer is, nah.
Unknown Speaker 38:23
Nah, for some people, some people it's not now it's Yeah, unfortunately. And that's when I think that then if we can get into accessing mental health help, that would be helpful. Because that seems like it's, it's, it's just disrupting your life. Right.
Unknown Speaker 38:43
So yeah, so there's some thoughts of, of what's going on what I would think you know, what I'm thinking what I've done to convince myself and reframe my thoughts of, you know,
Unknown Speaker 38:55
what are you gonna do?
Unknown Speaker 38:57
People are gonna judge you, what are you gonna do? You know, and the people who are judging you?
Unknown Speaker 39:03
If someone is judging you negatively, do you really care about their opinion? Like, would you want to be friends with that person? Mo, you're gonna fuck that person? No. So why would they, you know, why would their opinion matter? And I mean, I'm saying that as a rhetorical question, their opinion matters because we want to be loved by everyone and admired and because of safety.
Unknown Speaker 39:31
But we still also want to
Unknown Speaker 39:36
do shit, right?
Unknown Speaker 39:38
Okay, so Melissa is the question I became really fat in the pandemic and I've been avoiding going back to dancing because I feel people will judge me for how my body is now dancing is very thin, focused, how can I go slowly and dip my toe back into it? So yes, I've heard a lot about you know, traditional tap dancing settings. It was really fat phobic and
Unknown Speaker 40:00
A lot of stories I've heard from people who were in dance as younger people, that is horrifying. So I would try and do it in ways that is safe. And so for example, guess what I'm going to this weekend fat dance party.
Unknown Speaker 40:21
I've never been to a fat dance party, but I just saw it advertised on Instagram. And I was like, Is everyone
Unknown Speaker 40:26
Oh, shit. And
Unknown Speaker 40:28
actually, the creator messaged me and said, Do you want to come? And he's like, Yeah, I want to come.
Unknown Speaker 40:35
So
Unknown Speaker 40:37
I'm going to that. I've been to that dance studio before. And they've never, I've never seen a fat fat dancing. But anyway, I would look for a studio that seems to be a little bit more
Unknown Speaker 40:51
into diversity. Or there are many places that you can find dance videos that you could do at home. So you could be like, I like dancing, but I'm just gonna do it in the safety of my home for right now. Or I like dancing. And I'm gonna go to the studio that I think is a little bit more diverse. And I'm gonna bring my friend who happens to also be fat with me or someone who was supportive with me. And doing little things, see how it how it feels if it feels too much taking a step back.
Unknown Speaker 41:22
But I really hope that if you love dancing, that we don't let
Unknown Speaker 41:31
we don't we wouldn't. We don't stop doing that the things that bring us joy because of our body. And also, so many so many people I'd say like, you know, science 200% of people are like, my body has changed during the pandemic and I'm worried what people are gonna think.
Unknown Speaker 41:49
So, yes, all right.
Unknown Speaker 41:54
Okay, so let's go to our last question, which is from
Unknown Speaker 42:02
second last question, sorry.
Unknown Speaker 42:05
So second last question. Hi, Vinny. Love your show. Thank you always look forward to you. Your show. Your humor makes me crap crack up out loud. Thank you. It always helps me feel better about myself. While on this fat phobic world. Hora. I'm pleased about that. Thank you, Dina. I am dealing with my elderly mother. I want to enjoy the last years I have with her. I moved away when I was in my 20s and hadn't lived near her until now. I had a lot of time to heal from her very intense and sometimes downright mean personality. There were control issues and with weight and food. We live in the same city. Now. One of the first things she said to me when she first got off the plane was how she didn't like my body.
Unknown Speaker 42:57
Before she moved here, she agreed no weight, diet and body talk. But it didn't stick. At first I firmly held her to it, but she just keeps bringing it up. My mum is a bit of a manipulator. Instead of letting her think she's got my she's got my goat. I've decided just to not engage anymore, and change the subject in order to keep the peace. She isn't a person that takes into consideration someone else's feelings before speaking. I've noticed that after I visit with her I usually have urges to eat sweet, sugary and sometimes large volumes of food. And so I eat more than my body wants and my mind starts pondering desperately to how can I lose the weight? I've made much progress with intuitive eating and rarely binge. But after seeing my mom who is also starting to get senile, it is hard. Sorry this is so long big hoax Dina
Unknown Speaker 43:54
Love it. Love it. I mean, I love that I love that you've shared all of that I don't miss I don't think it's too long. This is so
Unknown Speaker 44:04
this is hard right?
Unknown Speaker 44:06
So
Unknown Speaker 44:08
I want to enjoy the last years I have with her.
Unknown Speaker 44:12
It sounds like your mom is trying to do
Unknown Speaker 44:18
many things so that you can't enjoy
Unknown Speaker 44:21
the last years with her
Unknown Speaker 44:26
right doesn't it? She's what she's saying is
Unknown Speaker 44:35
triggering you into disordered eating behaviors maybe.
Unknown Speaker 44:43
And by the way, it's absolutely okay to
Unknown Speaker 44:46
soothe your soul with with food. Right?
Unknown Speaker 44:52
If that is what you have available for you to in order to manage certain emotions and that's what's what's there.
Unknown Speaker 45:00
then that's okay. Right.
Unknown Speaker 45:03
But also it sounds like that that's doesn't feel good for you. So it sounds like we want to work to a different solution in this scenario.
Unknown Speaker 45:13
So I wonder, does your mum want you to be there? Like, does she,
Unknown Speaker 45:20
she interested in having a relationship with you?
Unknown Speaker 45:24
Because I'm like, I'm like reading this. And I'm like, wow, this is this doesn't sound like, I mean, we've got, we don't have a lot of, you know, all the information here, right? I'd love to, you know, if you were on here right now and having a conversation, or there'd be many questions I'd want to ask you have, you know, what does she do that, that makes you feel good? Like?
Unknown Speaker 45:46
Do you have happy times with her? Does she tell you nice things? Or is it just this, this abusive stuff, and, you know, there's this big thing of kind of, what if someone's going to die soon, and we're gonna have to, you know, be nice to them, who knows when they're gonna die. And,
Unknown Speaker 46:05
you know, they're old. And so they get a pass, because they're old. And I hate all of that. I'll hate all of that. And their families. So we have to have
Unknown Speaker 46:15
no, we don't have to, like, if you don't you, you don't have to see your mum, talk to your mum, spend time with your mum, if you don't want to just put it out there, it sounds like you do.
Unknown Speaker 46:28
And it sounds like also you want to say your mum, but you want to enjoy your time with your mum. So
Unknown Speaker 46:37
it sounds like you did some incredible work with saying, you know, setting boundaries.
Unknown Speaker 46:44
And she also did some incredible work to push you and push you and push you until that boundary broke down. So I wonder
Unknown Speaker 46:55
how we can reestablish that boundary and
Unknown Speaker 47:01
actually stick to a bottom line.
Unknown Speaker 47:05
And, you know, sometimes you might decide, okay, well, I'm just going to let it slide today. But if it's really affecting you, I think it would be fantastic. If you know, you're going to be like, right? I'm going to leave, I'm going to get up and leave.
Unknown Speaker 47:22
And so your mum would probably get the question the get the message pretty quickly, if you know, she started talking about your fat or your this or whatever, I don't like your body. And you say you say I love you, Mom, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.
Unknown Speaker 47:37
But I I'm unfortunately I'm not allowed to I'm not, I'm not able to be around diet, talk, and just leave and be consistent. And, you know, you might decide that you're not going to be around her.
Unknown Speaker 47:53
Or you might decide
Unknown Speaker 47:56
I'm just going to suck it up
Unknown Speaker 47:59
and take all of her abuse. Because I don't see that there's any way that she could possibly attack change. And I want to be around her, even though she's being abusive, and take that risk to see what that does to my mental health. Because I don't want to feel guilty for not being there.
Unknown Speaker 48:21
I don't know what the answer is right, you know,
Unknown Speaker 48:25
especially you saying, you know, maybe her dementia might be coming in to.
Unknown Speaker 48:32
I'm worried about like, you don't want her to think that she's upset you.
Unknown Speaker 48:42
But it is upsetting. Right?
Unknown Speaker 48:45
And so if you don't want her to know that you're upset, I think you know, just leaving.
Unknown Speaker 48:52
I mean, you say you change the subject. I mean, does that work? Does that feel okay? It says you say afterwards, you don't feel good.
Unknown Speaker 49:00
But it's hard, right?
Unknown Speaker 49:02
I think what I would do in this situation. And what I would do is based on that little bit of information and also not being actually in that situation. So it's probably a lot easier for me to say is I would probably try again with the boundaries.
Unknown Speaker 49:17
See what she does
Unknown Speaker 49:19
and have to stick to some really clear bottom lines. And if she kept making me feel the way that you're saying, I'd have to either reduce the amount of time that I spent with her significantly or stop seeing her.
Unknown Speaker 49:36
So I mentioned my dad before and my dad dying in 2018.
Unknown Speaker 49:41
My dad
Unknown Speaker 49:43
he almost died when I was
Unknown Speaker 49:48
about six or seven due to alcohol and his consumption of alcohol. He had cirrhosis of the liver, all of his drinking buddies all day
Unknown Speaker 50:00
died, he was the only one who didn't. And it was probably because he had a young family had four kids, right?
Unknown Speaker 50:07
And so
Unknown Speaker 50:09
the idea Daddy's gonna die. He's the end of his life was there right at the top from when I was six. My mom would always be like, your father is probably going to die soon. He's not going to live long.
Unknown Speaker 50:22
So that message of his he's going to die.
Unknown Speaker 50:26
Anytime made me have a relationship with Him out of guilt.
Unknown Speaker 50:34
Because he's going to die any minute. Right?
Unknown Speaker 50:37
He died when he was 6968.
Unknown Speaker 50:45
And he didn't die from from alcohol. He died because he had a blood clot in his leg.
Unknown Speaker 50:54
So
Unknown Speaker 50:56
that kind of like, Oh, he's gonna die soon. He's gonna die soon. So yeah, so I have to have relationship with Him. The more that I went to therapy, the more that I was like.
Unknown Speaker 51:06
But,
Unknown Speaker 51:08
you know, he's lived this long. Do I want to continue having a relationship with Him? When, when I would talk to him? He would never ask me anything about me. He would just go on about whatever his things. I mean, if I had went up to him and said, you know, a stranger went up to him and said, Tell me about your child. What job do they have? He he'd be like, oh,
Unknown Speaker 51:35
did not he wouldn't even know what job I had. He knew that I lived in Canada,
Unknown Speaker 51:40
because he likes to talk about Canada because he lived in Canada when he was baby.
Unknown Speaker 51:45
But I didn't feel good after spending time with him.
Unknown Speaker 51:51
So I just stopped. I didn't I didn't make an announcement. I just, I would see him like the last time I saw him was my sister's wedding.
Unknown Speaker 52:02
We had a little bit of a conversation. And that was it. And when I knew that I couldn't continue having a relationship with him. I was like, Okay, well, how can I handle this guilt? Like if he was to die tomorrow? And I don't have a relationship with him? What will I regret? And I said, Okay, well, I'll regret not asking him certain things. Because he did some fucked up stuff. To me, my mum, the family
Unknown Speaker 52:28
to ask him, Why did he do that?
Unknown Speaker 52:31
What's behind him drinking? What's his what's his, you know, ask him questions about his background and all that type of stuff. And so that's what I did. I said, Hey, can we can we do a, we, we did a at the time, it was a new thing, like video calls were a new thing. So we did a video call. And I recorded it. I wrote down the answers to all of his questions. And it was kind of like all the questions you'd ever want to ask a parent, like, have you ever been arrested?
Unknown Speaker 52:57
What was it like as a child? Why did you do that fucked up abusive thing.
Unknown Speaker 53:04
And I was able to get then get closure.
Unknown Speaker 53:08
And then kind of end the relationship. And I didn't do what kind of like this, this is the end of the relationship, it was kind of like, Oh, I'm just going to, you know, not be there as much.
Unknown Speaker 53:20
And when he died, I had that kind of, I'm so pleased that I did that thing. And also, I'm pleased that I didn't force myself to have a relationship with Him out of guilt.
Unknown Speaker 53:32
So I don't know if that that in that that story is going to be helpful to your tool. Of course, everyone's situation is different. You might be the sole carer of your mum.
Unknown Speaker 53:42
There might be other things going on.
Unknown Speaker 53:46
You know, like, for example, sometimes parents are like, Oh, if you don't hang around with me, then you're not going to get any heritance. With my dad, I was like, well, there's no, there's no inheritance. So I don't have to worry about him cutting him out, cut me out of his will. He cut my brother out of his well, just because he was a dickhead. Yeah. So
Unknown Speaker 54:06
good luck to you. And really, I would, you know, you said you started with the boundaries. You did so much work there, I think continue with the boundaries and hold firm to that bottom line. And see how that makes you feel? You know, does it make you feel better when you do go home? And do you engage in disordered eating behaviors? Or is that happening less?
Unknown Speaker 54:29
So kind of you could and there's no kind of, if you do this and you're a bad person if you don't do this and you're a good person and bla bla bla, whatever. See how it goes for you? And
Unknown Speaker 54:41
yeah, good luck. Okay, so our last question is from BK.
Unknown Speaker 54:47
BK says, Hey, Vinnie, thanks for sharing this and I've been having some thoughts lately.
Unknown Speaker 54:54
Sharing this as saying, Hey, do you have any questions? Well, for the past past few few years, I've kept
Unknown Speaker 55:00
I came out as non binary trans mask.
Unknown Speaker 55:05
Just an FYI for people who are not familiar with the language non binary is saying that you don't adhere to the binary
Unknown Speaker 55:14
designations of man or woman.
Unknown Speaker 55:18
That's like either or, I'm knew the man or woman. Some people, some non binary people all have their own version of what binary non binary feels like to them. For me, it feels like gender, is if we think about gender as all the Scots stars in the sky, one of those stars is man, one of those stars is woman. Another star is non binary. No, the other stars represent all different genders that maybe we don't have words for yet. And we also have lots of words for different genders anyway. But yeah, that's the kind of like simplified trans mask trans means the prefix trans means going from one place to another. Trans means not trans, when it comes to gender, transgender means that
Unknown Speaker 56:04
you don't align with the sex that was assigned at birth. So for me, the sex I was assigned at birth is female, I don't align with that, because I'm non binary, therefore, I would be a trans person, not all non binary people identify as trans you can identify any way you want. But it would be under the trans umbrella, a non binary would be under the trans umbrella. Trans mask is so masculine is short for mask is short for masculine. And so this person would align a lot with a lot with me, although I'm kind of like,
Unknown Speaker 56:43
feminine, androgynous in my brain, more masculine. It's also complicated. So it's someone who is their gender is non binary. They are trans because they were not assigned non binary at birth, they were assigned, you know, male, female, or intersex
Unknown Speaker 57:04
is a trans and then masculine is that gender presentation, or could be how they're feeling in the room.
Unknown Speaker 57:12
So let me read that again, without this whole big long explanation.
Unknown Speaker 57:19
I've been having some thoughts lately. Well, for the past few years, since I came out as non binary trans mask, about how my body size about my body size and shape. I know that you did a trans focus episode, but I can't remember the details, by the way that that episode is episode 1123123. Let's see if I can find out what the name of it is. I think it was like trans and trans and fat identities. Yeah, fans that fat and trans identities intersecting. So if you want if you want to go in depth from that, then have a read of what.
Unknown Speaker 57:55
So BK continues, I know that gender is a social construct, yet. I have trouble detangling gender from body shape. I don't feel like I necessarily want to have surgery. For example, when I see a thin mask a body in a nice fitting suit, like Rico Ortiz with some heart eyes. I'm so overcome with jealousy, I will never have that shape, though. I got close in the throes of my eating disorders. So even if I were to say chop off my tits, I would still have a very femme presenting body. The only benefit would be the ability to fit into the shirts I like IE men's button ups. So then how much of that is wanting to be perceived as a masculine person? How much of that is my actual desire for the body? How much of that is internalized fat phobia and transphobia? How much of that is me thinking thin mask people in suits that good? Because that's what I've been conditioned, conditioned to believe. It feels like such a struggle with no answer. I know I don't need to look a certain way to be non binary slash trans but I'm definitely uncomfortable with femininity, but my body and the way it collects, collects fat reads femme. So anyways, your reflections on that intersection I think would be helpful and interesting. Which does lead me to Okay, and then something else probably.
Unknown Speaker 59:22
This is such a great question. Because this is something that I've been thinking about a lot too. I'm not an expert on on trans
Unknown Speaker 59:34
trans stuff in the way that I you know, my experience with fatness I've been talking about fatness for many years and that it's been my own personal journey right. And my own personal journey to with trans nurse and being non binary and also having the exact same thoughts as you BK of looking at thin trans men or not
Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
binary trans mask men, or non binary people, sorry.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:06
And thinking,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:08
my body will not look like that. Because I was literally just thinking this morning, my belly, if I think about men's bellies, they'll have a beer belly, right? And it'd be like a round kind of nice round, like barrel, or is the way that my belly holds fat is more,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:31
quote, feminine.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:34
And I was thinking is that same thing? Like, what if I did chop off my tits. And you know, that's something that I was like, Oh, well, maybe I'll start binding. So we you can bind, bind your chest to make it look flatter. But then because I'm fat, it will never necessarily look like
Unknown Speaker 1:00:57
a thin person who binds or has
Unknown Speaker 1:01:02
the chest tissue removed. Chest tissue is the is the
Unknown Speaker 1:01:09
gender neutral way of saying
Unknown Speaker 1:01:12
tats or breasts or whatever. Because some, some people that
Unknown Speaker 1:01:19
call referring to chest tissue as breasts is,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:25
doesn't feel good, right? Because if they're a man, and they have these things that people are calling breasts, that can be recalled a lot of dysphoria.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:41
But you can, there are these vests that you can wear that that kind of compress your torso. And so then you'd get more of that kind of,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:52
quote, masculine Barili type distribution of your fat.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:00
And so the question here from BK is, is that transphobia? Is that fat phobia? Is that me just wanting to be perceived as a masculine person? Is that a desire for how my body looks? The answer is, I don't know. I don't know. But I have a suspicion that because
Unknown Speaker 1:02:27
we've been raised to be transphobic, fat phobic.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:33
And because we are trans people,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:37
that is probably a combination of a lot of things, right? of wanting to feel at home in your body.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:45
And there being some incongruency is there have you know,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:51
and thinking about you know, as well
Unknown Speaker 1:02:56
if the criticism if fat people really did love their themselves, why why are they wearing makeup? Why are they brushing their hair? And it's like, well, because it's the separate because it makes me feel nice to like, as I'm wearing lipstick today. I like it. It makes me feel good. It makes me feel like me. It doesn't mean that because I wear lipstick. I hate fatness
Unknown Speaker 1:03:21
because it works. Right. But that simplification? I wonder if that's like a white supremacist?
Unknown Speaker 1:03:30
I bet it is. Yeah, that's white supremacy, culture, black and white thinking. That's white supremacy culture. So then we've got that added layer of is my own internalized white supremacy at play here to now says, Yeah, I'm white. So probably, and in what form? It's complicated and exactly what BK says, there's an ending struggle with no answer.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:54
And I think,
Unknown Speaker 1:03:56
I mean,
Unknown Speaker 1:03:57
are we ever gonna get an answer of like, what percent of the way we're thinking about this certain topic is bigotry. We're never gonna get their answer, because the answer is who the fuck knows. We can't measure it like that. But I think there is an answer in regards to the way that we can work towards feeling better in our bodies, and feeling that our bodies are aligned with our gender identity. And also knowing that if we are aware of transphobia and fat phobia and white supremacy and all the other different oppressive systems out there, that we are probably going to be asking ourselves questions exactly like what we're doing here now with BK of what is going on, and we can begin to explore of
Unknown Speaker 1:04:54
is it that and the thing is here, BK is 1,000,000,000% right now
Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
What we see in the media of of trans mask people is Elliott page. And his body type six pack, ripped, thin.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:17
And when we like, because I'm there on Instagram this weekend looking for all of the trans mask, non binary people.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:26
They look great. I'm like, they're they're rocking a suit, they're rocking the shirt, and they're thin.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:35
Am I thinking that they look great? Because they're thin?
Unknown Speaker 1:05:42
am I teaching my brain what a trans mask person looks like? Because all of the people who come up on the trans mask hashtag are followed the most are thin and muscular.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:01
Or is something else going on? And these are the questions that I'm asking myself. I you know, I don't know.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:11
And it's probably yes. And probably also something else too. And, and, you know, how can I find more
Unknown Speaker 1:06:19
fat trans mask people?
Unknown Speaker 1:06:25
Because I think
Unknown Speaker 1:06:28
I know, you know, like, if I saw a fat trans mass of people wearing a suit, wearing suits, you know, Looking dapper, you know, cool hair cut stub or whatever. I be like, yeah, that looks great.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:43
But then, what if?
Unknown Speaker 1:06:47
What if
Unknown Speaker 1:06:50
the distribution of the body fat
Unknown Speaker 1:06:58
makes me think that distribution is quote, feminine? Would I think that they look less good? I'm just like, thinking out loud here is so complicated, right? It's just so kind of
Unknown Speaker 1:07:13
how much of this is
Unknown Speaker 1:07:17
this ridiculous idea of how
Unknown Speaker 1:07:22
gender looks?
Unknown Speaker 1:07:25
Anyway, again, I'm not an expert on this. This is just me. This is me going through the process right now of, of
Unknown Speaker 1:07:35
being like I was triggered in the last few weeks being
Unknown Speaker 1:07:42
at this new choir that I went to.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:48
I shared on Instagram, but there's so this new choir that I went to, right, so I stopped going to my last choir because it was like women, women, women, women, women, were all women here and we love we're men with women, women were men. And I was like, Hey, I'm non binary, and they're like women.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:03
Anyway, so I went to the new choir and messaged them beforehand. I was like, Hey, I'm trans non binary. You're cool with that. They're like, we're cool with that. And then
Unknown Speaker 1:08:13
I went and they were like, Hey, there's a woman. Literally, I walked in and they said, you're a female.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:22
That's going to happen, because my voice is tenor tenor is lower.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:29
It's more common that men would be tenors, right?
Unknown Speaker 1:08:34
And it'd be less common not although not uncommon for for women to be pretenders. But anyway, I'm not a woman, right? And so I've messaged them about this. I'm not a woman. They said to me, you're Oh, hey, you're a female tenor. I said, I'm not a female tenor. I am a non binary tenor. So what does that mean? There's no actually that means you're a tenor one and then low voices will be tended to oh, great, great. I thought we had that COVID. So I walked in and they said, Oh, you're a female tena. We've got another female tena. And I said, Actually, no, no, I'm not. I'm not a female tenor. I'm non binary. And then they started talking. The conductor was like, female tennis and then I
Unknown Speaker 1:09:14
showed him a name tag with the them on there to reminder just in case you forgot, and she was kind of like, Oh, what are you talking about? She kept saying, female Tanner's and I was literally had to sit there and convinced myself not to cry, and was just like,
Unknown Speaker 1:09:30
having a conversation in my mind of like, just leave, just walk up and get your stuff and you've got a friend there and tell them to pick up your stuff. No, stay, you're missing out on joy because of this law. Anyway, I stayed. And then in the intermission, I said, Hey, can you not call me female Tana? And she was like, Oh, my God, I'll get it. And it's like me. I've already had 50 million emails with you about this Jesus Christ, like how many times I have to say, I'm not a woman.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:58
And then she said,
Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
A conductor said well, actually, we Why don't you just go into the
Unknown Speaker 1:10:07
Alto section? Alto is, is higher voice. Why don't you just go into the Alto section because then I won't have to remember to not call you a female. And I was like
Unknown Speaker 1:10:19
I think I said at work alright then But then then then I went back and said, actually, you know what, I don't want to go into the alter section. I want to stay in the tenor because if it's gender affirming to be with the men and she just burst out laughing What does God What
Unknown Speaker 1:10:34
are you doing?
Unknown Speaker 1:10:36
Why can you be so? Oh, anyway, it uses mopping and I was just like yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:10:42
she's I'll let you know. I'll let you know if you can be you can stay as a timer.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:47
So she emailed me the next night. Vinnie is going to stay in the tenor. She is this Lola because she CC Don's admin person. Let's you back.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:58
By the way,
Unknown Speaker 1:11:00
my 50,000,000th time of saying My pronouns are they them and so you won't use a word she hers. So you would say they are in this section, that person message rack and said, Oh, actually, Vinnie is in that section. And they were always in that section. And I was like, Oh, they
Unknown Speaker 1:11:17
got it, right. So anyway, I was having a lot of like,
Unknown Speaker 1:11:22
dysphoria, dysphoria, and looking at pictures of, you know, like, what can I do I
Unknown Speaker 1:11:30
and wanting to just be, be
Unknown Speaker 1:11:34
have the body of a man so that
Unknown Speaker 1:11:38
I'm just perceived as a man
Unknown Speaker 1:11:42
and thinking about that a lot of
Unknown Speaker 1:11:46
what that what that what would that looked like for me as a fat person, and also wanting to hold on to certain aspects of femininity, you know?
Unknown Speaker 1:12:01
Like things like, you know, wearing lipstick and all that type of stuff. And absolutely, I could do that as a trans man, if that's what I wanted to do. I'm just exploring it Alright, so I'm not saying that I'm a trans man. I'm just you know, you know, maybe I was triggered and I you know, we're searching for comfort in that maybe actually, you know, I am a trans man and who knows.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:23
talking aloud blubbery bloop bloop
Unknown Speaker 1:12:27
so
Unknown Speaker 1:12:29
the the resolution to this was I had dinner with some ended and my friend friend of the show, and we were joking about this thing after me being you know, annoyed and upset or being like, Okay, well, she's gonna actually said she was gonna stand outside the place that we we do rehearsals. And
Unknown Speaker 1:12:48
I had seen as mean that said,
Unknown Speaker 1:12:52
I managed to train my parents not to miss gender, my sibling. By bringing a
Unknown Speaker 1:12:59
is not Foghorn. What's it called? You know, it's an air horn, air horn. I brought an air horn to Christmas dinner every time they misgendered my sibling, I blew the air horn. They were trained really quickly not to do that again. Maybe that's what Melissa and Melissa
Unknown Speaker 1:13:17
have lost the thing. The last question should do with
Unknown Speaker 1:13:23
anyway, I was talking about love and about that. And then someone's like, well, I'll come with a fuckin Foghorn and air horn and sat outside the venue. And every time she was like, female tanners. And so then
Unknown Speaker 1:13:36
I decided I was going to write a sine. So I wrote a sine, because it's an 80 person choir, right? And so people are having side conversations while she's conducting or whatever. And so she kind of, she doesn't listen to them. And so when you're talking, you say, Hey, she doesn't listen. So she misgendered me I couldn't say hey, because she, you know, tune it out type of thing. So made a sign saying 1001, not female tenor, and was prepared to hold it up. But then last week, which is our second week,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:07
she towards the end, said, Oh, by the way, I've had a request from a non binary.
Unknown Speaker 1:14:14
Kinda can't get with the words there. It should be a non binary person.
Unknown Speaker 1:14:19
And I'm going to call all the female tenors, tenor one, I was like,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:24
loops applies again, not female. And then she said, Oh, a female and a non binary. And
Unknown Speaker 1:14:33
the male tennis 10 A two. And someone said, Well, why don't you just say, people with high voices 1001 and people low voices tend to she's like, Is this too complicated? too complex?
Unknown Speaker 1:14:46
It's like, well, A for effort, which is great. So theoretically, I'm never gonna have to use a sign. But I've got to kept it in my folder in my music folder. So that if that has I mean, she's probably
Unknown Speaker 1:15:00
Got a slip up? I can I can hold it up.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:04
Yeah, so anyway, I'm blabbing on.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:10
Okay, so I'm gonna leave it there. I'm gonna answer some more questions next time. I like this. I like answering questions. It's like we have this log cabin, we suddenly have a relationship. It's like you're my friend. And I'm just saying friends stuff. So
Unknown Speaker 1:15:24
I like it. I like it. All right, well, um, hey, if you want to send a question and then Vin fatty at first fatty.com and my assistant will put them into a file for me to have a look at if I could do part three of this.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:46
And I hope you are staying feels a fatty and we'll see you in a while. Like Gator at a
Unknown Speaker 1:16:06
perfect.