Episode 156 Transcript

Read the transcript alongside the audio.

You listen to the Fierce Fatty Podcast episode 156 Is Wegovy/Ozempic the Miracle Weight Loss Drug It’s Made Out to Be? Part 2

Unknown Speaker 0:24

Hello welcome, I am Vinny pronouns they/them, your host with the most just I don't know what I've got the most of sex of hell so did an episode last episode if you've not listened to it already it's a part one of this which is talking about we go V in that episode we went over what is we go v as empiric, who went over Nordisk overview of the drugs and a review of the research in a nutshell, it doesn't really work and it works a little bit. The studies are short term average two pound weight loss a month, which is called the press is absolutely something to write home about and doesn't show any type of health improvements. So it's basically six Ender. We go the exam pick, whatever, whatever name, that dock ship, dock ship. So let's turn let's look at the way that this has been marketed. The supply issues and celebrities personal stories, which is always my favorite the NoVo lawsuits and scandals other new drugs plus size influences and tic toc and so what is the solution? Ah a lot of stuff so the reason why I'm talking about this is because there has been a lot of marketing of the drug and you may or may not have seen it seen influencers taking it and being like what the fuck is this and that is because Novo has spent a shit ton of money Nova being the manufacturing company to market this and market it in a very smart way. So just like as an as a start, Novo who spent spent the most money of any pharma pharma company lobbying the AMA to make fatness a disease so, quote from Mikey Mercedes the amas decision to classify people with a word as diseased is known by weight stigma scholars and fat acceptance advocates to be a major development in fat stigmas long time presence in the United States and the sciences. As the largest professional association and lobby group for physicians and medical students in the US. The AMA is declaration that oh word is a disease provided a win for entities like insurance companies, and the O word Society, who had long reasoned classifying Oh word as a disease would do more good than harm. However, as fat acceptance advocates and weight stigma scholars predicted and maintain this move on the AMA behalf ignored the stigmatizing consequences of medical lysing body size and of endorsing a weight loss which is statistically unlikely and often harmful. As a disease quote, cure. So that's when we go V isn't a game changer but an update. So So Nova we're in there, again. Just absolutely cream in the pants being like let's let's make fatness a disease Yes, yes. Motherfuckers. That's my disease. Because if it's a disease, guess what countries governments insurance companies will pay to fix something that's a disease. If it's an aesthetic preference. They won't. So no fo has spent tons of marketing on their quote. It's bigger than me. campaign. It's bigger. That's the name of their fucking campaign to say well let's reduce weight stigma is to say it's bigger than me. ello people are fucking big. So they say weight stigma is bad. And to fix weight stigma we need to get our drug approved so we can erase fat people. They did a grand rounds in a hospital where they said their presentation was Oh word is the elephant in the room. I just love the way that they try and erase weight stigma by perpetuating weight stigma. So So I hate them. Banks, I hate it. So we have to remember that that novos legal, fiduciary responsibility, so their financial responsibility is to its shareholders and not to its patients. They want to keep their shareholders happy. And so when Novo we're going to launch, they launch we go V, they promised the fastest post approval launch in history, and doubling of the Oh, word sales between 2019 and 2025. So they're like, girls, this is gonna be big, we're gonna get the phase we're gonna, we're gonna be smart about this and tell them that ease is not life or get everyone on board to say that it's a disease, and then sell them this drug, which should temporarily make them a little bit thinner, but then we'll probably give them diabetes. And then guess what? We're going to sell them our diabetes drug fun times. That's what happened. So they have recently updated their their goal, their 2025 goal. 1.6 9 billion was their original goal. Now because there's a shortage they've updated it to 3.7 2 billion US dollars. So 1.6 9 billion to 3.7 2 billion billion BB V billion billion, billion dollars. And another thing that helps them with this, get this this this. This goal is that they have now marketed to marketed it to kids and marketing it to kids, when their own research show that kids have even worse outcomes than the adults in this in their study in their own study. Kids 12 and up. I'm going to do an episode on the American pediatrics Association. They just recommended that kids go on diets and get bariatric surgery. I think they also remake it recommended drugs and they recommended it from the age of two up so chances that no vo work was involved with that. Mm hmm. I don't know. You tell me. You tell me. So let's talk about the supply issues. I'm going to quote from an article that says that this diabetes drug is being prescribed off label for weight loss. Now there's a shortage and this is from glamour. So quote, Google searches for ozempic spiked to an all time high one week after the 2022 Met Gala. Sidenote, this is me this is when Kim Kardashian wore the Marilyn Monroe dress. And it was rumored that she used a Zen pick which is the diabetes medication that she got a doctor presumably allegedly, to prescribe off label off label means not for the thing it was intended for. To get her thin temporarily. So so that so it spiked at the 2022 Met Gala. Then searches went even higher the week after Kim. Kim shared results from a body scan that showed that she cut her body fat by 7% points in the last year down to a startling 18%. Doctors are still concerned with their patients weight so much that they have been prescribing as Empik off label in large numbers, despite potential side effects that deter even diabetics who need drugs like this to survive. So even people with diabetes are like I'd rather not. And obviously for a lot of folks it but for diabetes and what's great, I helped organize volunteer. So this is continuing. I helped organize a volunteer mutual aid network mutual aid diabetes that connects diabetics with insulin medication and supplies they need. We've heard from multiple sources that pharmacies are delaying refills for ozempic prescriptions, as Empik is already difficult to obtain as there's no generic version and it's outrageously expensive with a list price of 892 per month, which compares to $20 a month for a generic metformin and metformin is another weight loss drug, a different class of diabetes treatment drug and diabetes dream drum. But but it's prescribed all the time for weight loss. By the way, weight loss at the Metformin produces is one pound a year, you heard that one pound a year.

Unknown Speaker 10:04

So ozempic being 892 a month. That's because it's half the dosage. For we go v as Empik is exact same drug, we go V is double the dose. So we go with being 1300 Something makes sense, because it's double the dosage. I mean doesn't make sense, because I mean, it could be probably fucking $12. But so, so people who are looking to use those Empik to lose weight would need to pay double that, right. So that would be 1800 a month, but then if they get we go V, it would be 1300. But people who have diabetes would pay 892 a month, which is obviously awful, and I see myself doing this like I don't have diabetes, but I have asthma and my inhaler is I have to have two a month and they cost 220 For both are 100 Something each, and I noticed that I might add I need to really take take two posts today. And that's for something that's 220 so in plugin $900. Continuing while the US Food and Drug Administration does not have information on its website about an Olympic shortage, Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration has issued a supply warning due to quote extensive prescribing for low management for which exempt ozempic is not indicated as MPX manufacturer has advised that the shortage will continue until the end of December 2022 I think there might be a typo should be 21 Three, the American Society of Health System Pharmacists, and the independent information website drugs.com are also reporting as MP shortage in the US due to increased demand on tick tock hashtag ozempic has 1.63 point 4 million views an increase of 107 point 8 million since the end of April the hashtag ozempic weight loss is second was 60 point 4 million views and terrifying the Zen pic challenge referring to a weight loss challenge using the drug is third with 1.7 million this and that's so that's a quote from diabetes this diabetes drug has been prescribed off label for weight loss now there's a shortage. Okay, so quote from Louise Adams and trapped podcast and now it seems we need to add incompetence to the laundry list of no vo just months after the launch of weego V in May 2021 supplies of Semak semaglutide all over the planet dried up which of course screwed over everyone with diabetes who need ozempic. The CEO and other Novo insiders have pleaded ignorance claiming that they just didn't anticipate such as strong demand which is utter bullshit. Apparently they rely on just one factory to make we go V and their supply chain chain completely imploded in December 2021. At their Belgian factory was shut down because of dodgy manufacturing practices. Novo are now planning to develop what they call in house manufacturing factories that's pocketing more money which are allegedly going into going to be operational in early 2023. They even snapped up an Old Purdue pharma factory Purdue we'll talk about this later. But Purdue if you don't know. They were the manufacturing company who sold the pharma company who sold oxycontin who are now they could declare bankruptcy after massive lawsuits because there they created the what do we call it drug epidemic? No, no, no opioid epidemic an opiate epidemic. And Louise is saying it here in that poetic and the reason why Louisa saying isn't that poetic is because what got Purdue into a shit ton of trouble is that they lied to doctors, they misinformed doctors with their marketing. They covered up the side effects and the fact that it was incredibly more addictive than what they had told doctors and so they were telling doctors to prescribe it the same as you would an ibuprofen. But we now we know it's like it is incredibly addictive. And many, many people died and basically they were profits over people, which is most pharmaceutical companies. So yeah, they snapped up an Old Purdue pharma factory. Isn't that poetic is interesting to know that while Australia struggles to deal with a massive ozempic shortage reportedly impacting 125,000 Australians with diabetes over the more lucrative American Novo American market. Novell are bragging about their success and being able to continue to serve as their brand new extremely profitable we go V customers considering that we go V is chemically the same drug as ozempic. So basically they're choosing to manufacture we go V over as Empik and put that semaglutide that they have into the weight loss drug which is more profitable for them twice is more profitable and and then it's saying to the diabetics like, sucks to be you. We've got people who want to pay more to lose weight. LOL It's utterly outrageous at Novo Nordisk are not being held accountable for the treatment of people with diabetes, it's unconscionable to impact supply of an effective diabetes medication in order to service a more lucrative weight loss market. So, you know, we can say it's kind of it's a joint it's a joint problem, it's a joint problem with Novo and they're bad manufacturing processes have got that got a factory shut down that produces the only factory that's that produces semaglutide and, and then them saying like, Oh, let's put what we have of semaglutide Mostly into we go V and then there being a shortage in places where you can't get we go V because we go V is not legal everywhere. But ozempic is, and so people doctors are saying well, we don't have we go V but we have a Zen pick, which is the same drug. I'll prescribe this to you off label and you just take it for the weight loss and also that means that they needing double the dose. So that means taking like one person who's taking his Empik theoretically and I say theoretically because you the dose of as epic as is lower and then it's built up because the side effects are so intolerable, so they have to be built up. And so someone who's taking his epic long longer term, like four months or longer are taking two doses of a Zen pick from someone with diabetes. I can't even imagine what that would be like if I needed a drug and I couldn't get it because people we were one because the the Novo Nordisk are just fucking clowns. And then and then the supply that we did have was going to people who wanted to lose weight. I'd be fucking furious. Fair, yes. Okay, so let's talk about personal stories. I'm gonna get I'm gonna give you a few from from articles, publications, whatever, and then from actual followers of Mine. So Remy Bader says she quote gained double the weight back after stopping weight loss drug as Empik and this is from people. Remi Bader is influenced, I'm not sure if she she's like a singer or anything but I think she's an influencer anyway. So quote, Bader said, it wasn't the best treatment for her as it eventually worsened her binge eating, which she struggled with for years. She explained that although she was able to lose weight from the medication, when she stopped taking it, her binge eating immediately returned. This is me talking now. Yes, that's the other thing that I've not mentioned is, is this is manufacturing.

Unknown Speaker 18:23

Extreme restriction. And what we know about our beautiful brain or beautiful body is that our brain is going to be like, Bitch, give me some fucking food. And our body is gonna be like, don't you worry, I help you. I'm going to I'm going to make it so that we are keeping hold of this weight. When they do eat when this motherfucker eats. I'll hold on to the weight. So don't you worry, the brain is like, Okay, I'll convince him to eat. I mean, come on, come on, and the drug is suppressing that brain and suppressing the body, you know, artificially being like, hey, you ain't full, you ain't full ventually the drug of when you come off the drug and even if you don't come off, and you keep keep taking it, that battle goes to worse that battle goes to our body if the drug hasn't killed us by then. And so then our brain is like focusing off the drug in that shirt. Who knows when this this person is going to start taking more drugs we need to eat, hold on to that, hold on to that food, please focus on the food because we need to regain that weight because this this body we're living in, they're unpredictable, who knows what they're going to do next. And that's a natural thing, right? That's a natural thing. That's a body doing a beautiful thing for us. And I've spoken about it before the restriction is like holding, you're holding your breath underwater, and you can will yourself and even like so something like a Zen pick. It's that's like giving you a snorkel so that you can be underwater with a snorkel or a scuba diving Thing. Thing is that gas is going to run a run out thing is you're gonna have to get out of that water soon enough, and eventually you're gonna go and that's what are bodies are doing is that our bodies are grasping for the thing it needs to survive. Continuing quote from this people article, they said I need this and I had a lot of mixed feelings she said of being prescribed as Empik a few months later I went off it and I got I got into the bad binging. I saw a doctor and they were like, it's 100 it's 100% because of I went on as Olympic Bader continued, it was making me think I wasn't hungry for so long. I lost some weight. I didn't want to be obsessed with being on it long term. I was like, I bet the second I go go off. I'm gonna get starving again. I did and my binging got so much worse. So then I kind of blamed it on ozempic. Yeah. The cut wrote, you might go through hell for your post ozempic body. Multiple women I spoke with experienced incessant vomiting. Another said she had heart rate spikes so strong they woke her up at night. Remember, on ozempic Extra 3.5 beats a minute. You notice that right an extra 3.5 beats a minute you notice that? Continuing yet, the even perceived benefit can be short lived, you will most likely gain the weight back after going off the medication. Anna tuk a 42 year old podcaster in New York was an ideal candidate for as Empik since she's diabetic, the drug can lower her blood sugar and help her pancreas produce insulin. laser focus on these goals as well as losing weight, which can also put type two diabetes in remission. Hey, this line is is misleading. Losing weight. The act of having a smaller body does not put type two diabetes in remission. That's false. It's a myth. Some people who lose weight will do other things to lose weight like eat different things or move their body you know moving your body has been shown to be helpful for those with diabetes, but you know what the most helpful thing is, is taking drugs and thin people are not told to lose weight to manage their diabetes. Because it doesn't work. But fat people high your fat your diabetes is called your fatness. Again it's not it's mostly a genetic condition condition. Anyway, but see even when something where they're even in a piece where it's like as Empik is not great for weight loss they still put fucking weight stigma in there. Okay, anyway continuing she visited a well known and endocrinologist in Manhattan and asked about ozempic About after reading about it in The New York Times. By the way, the New York Times came out with a piece where they they framed it as weight stigma is bad. Why don't we get this drug approved. If we if we loved fat people, we would make them not fat by making them take as MP and every single person who was quoted in the article whose payroll was a yes, Novo Nordisk they were on Nova Nautilus payroll. So basically, this New York Times piece was a free ad for as Empik disguised as a genuine piece about weight stigma. And there was no note or disclosure of conflict of interest. Every single person that quoted was paid by novo. Anyway, continuing. I'm like, there's so much there's so much information I've learned about this stuff during this this this podcast, I'm just like, or anyway, he warned me it wouldn't be fun. So even the endocrinologist was like Burgesses and this ain't this ain't fun. Okay, continuing hell ensued to started on weekly injections of weekly injections. Shit of point two five milligrams with intentions to build up to one milligram, which is when most patients according to the doctors I spoke with, see more significant weight loss within a week, quote, I had no energy constant nausea, and what I call power puking. She told me, a friend of hers described it as scrubbed it as the kind of puking so bad you have to look away. Instead of stopping as Empik Tink asked a doctor to go up to point 50 milligrams. I wanted to keep my eye on the prize my health and that post is empty. Body She says her doctor obliged and that's when things went, quote truly haywire. She was so sick all the time that on her 42nd birthday, she only felt comfortable seeing her mum, that night to volume vomited again. And her mother told you told her you can't live like this. Tonight doctor was hesitant to prescribe a cocktail of drugs to alleviate her symptoms. I'd share how I was doing and he'd say, Yeah, this class of drugs comes with bad side effects, which I felt like was, well, you've got yourself fat. So yeah, it might suck to be on this drug. As a September trip to Italy approached tonight had a breakthrough. I realized that there are worse things and being fat. She says the worst thing you can be is wanting to barf all the time. She went herself off as Empik and went to Italy without it. I think it takes about five weeks for you for it to get out of your system and I could feel it leaving my body she says my periods have been weird. And as soon as I hit that five week mark, I had them had the monster period of my life. For others that gastric gastro intestinal side effects weren't even the main issue. Mila Clark 32, who has latent autoimmune diabetes, ladder diabetes, and runs a well known blog in the diabetes community chronicled taking ozempic for her 30,000 YouTube subscribers subscribers last year. She tells me she lost weight quickly, but it actually frightened her how little she wanted to eat. Sometimes I would drink a glass of water and I would be full for the entire day. Then read that again. Sometimes I would drink a glass of water and I would be full for the entire day. What does that sound like? A typical manner anorexia, that famous quote from Who is it Lisa dobro. Are we prescribing for fat people what we diagnosed as eating disorders in thin people she got over No, it wasn't either of those who was it that said that quote is gonna escape me anyway. Someone amazing. She got over other side effects like nausea and acid reflux in a month. But within a week of starting the drug, she kept getting the same Apple Watch notification telling her that her heart rate was high. She said she brought it up with a doctor who initially said it was probably anxiety because he thought heart palpitations went doc a document a side effect of or is it of his Empik. And they didn't say in here. A couple months later, she quit the medication, I could feel my heart beating out of my chair. She said it was hard to breathe. I was woken up in the middle of the night from his heart palpitations, and I could just not take it anymore. afterwards. She heard from other people experiencing these symptoms too. I'm grateful I made that choice and that my doctors supported that choice because my mom recently passed away from a heart attack. clock says Jesus did that doctor, the doctor didn't even know about the frickin increased heart rate. And so then he wouldn't have known to say hey, have you? Has your mom died recently from a heart attack? Oh, she has made me make this.

Unknown Speaker 28:10

So there's this there's there's groups. This is this one article I read. I don't know if I'm gonna quote it. But this one article I read was saying that there's groups Facebook groups for for ozempic or, or GLP ones for weight loss. Two people to share their experiences. One of the groups the first rule is you are not allowed to share negative side effects because we're so inundated with people posting about negative side effects that all this group would be would be people posting about negative side effects and we want to keep it positive that's in there like you have to agree that to the group rules if that ain't rockin red flag that the number one thing they said what is it like multiple posts in a day people complaining about the side effects? Well, hello. Wow. Okay, so there's this other article people are buying raw chemicals to concoct DIY as Empik at home, this is from Jezebel love this product reads a review for the hormone semaglutide on the website for accelerate labs. It works well for one it is Reese another on Union you need a new you new life, your new life. A company that claims it on its quote about page that it quote makes no claims to the efficacy of any treatment procedures or supplements and advisors. Its products are quote, not for human consumption. Of course that's exactly what these reviewers are doing. Consuming, mixed and home semaglutide The working ingredient for in fad weight loss drugs of Zen pick and we Go V isn't big and we go we have skyrocketed in popularity over the past year. Celebrities like Kim Kardashian and Mindy Kaling have been rumored to use a type two diabetes drug to slim down even hosting parties. Like the Botox bought balls of your Elon Musk even admitted to using his Empik tweeting that it quote appears to be effective in appetite control with minor side effects. So why are folks buying raw semaglutide? Well without insurances Empik costs around 696 967 for a four milligram pen. Whereas accelerate Labs is selling five milligrams of semaglutide for 180. People desperate for this miracle pound shedding peptide are hungry pun intended for that kind of deal. So hungry that they're willing to overlook the real dangers of DIY medicine. Please don't do that. If you're listening. Please, I should have not mentioned the the names of the places you can get that from the drugs we go V and as Ambit contain semaglutide. But they also contain other things. And it's mixed together in a dose, right? These people are just a mixed, they're mixing it at home. And that is so unsafe. And the drugs unsafe already. You don't need to add to that. Really, please don't do that. So I surveyed my Instagram audience to see you know where you're at what's going on? What do you think? So the first question is that, have you heard of ozempic? We go v semaglutide. Before? And then I asked also, did you hear it from someone who is anti fat? So someone who is anti fat could be your doctor prescribing it? It could be an influencer that's using it or it could be you know, a news ad? Or did you hear from a pro fat res pro fat source or a pro fat source could be someone like me, a fat activist, someone pointing out the dangers of the drug? And so have you heard of this drug? Yes. From an anti fat source? 42%. And that's 71 votes? Yes. From a pro fat source. 43 votes and 25%? Yes, I don't know the source 15% and 25 votes and not heard of it. 31 votes at 18%. So 82% of people have heard about this drug who follow me. Next question. Are you taking we go V or ozempic? No. 91% 157 votes? Yes. Three votes. That's 2%. No, but a different drug for weight loss 2% and three votes. And actually I messaged those people and I said, Oh, what drug was it? And then one person said, I'll accidentally press that button. So less, and it was Metformin. And finally 5% Yes, but for diabetes, nine votes. So most people aren't taking it. Three people were out of 160 ish votes. Did your doctor next question tell you all the warnings including the box warning for thyroid cancer? Yes, told me all the warnings for votes. Told me some four votes. Didn't tell me any 10 votes. That's really fucking scary. So 14 People said that they weren't told any or only some and four people were told all the warnings, but then again, do they know what all the warnings are? You know? Then I had a box saying like what is it you want me to know? Do you have any experiences that you want to share anything you want to ask me or tell me or whatever? So someone said isn't it true that as soon as she stopped taking observe as Empik you'll gain back? gain the weight back? Yep, that's what the study is showing. Someone says the list of side effects is usually too concerning to assent incentivize me to take any? Yeah. Someone says extender has a high risk if you have pancreatic cancer in your family, and that's not known enough. So Meanwhile, says I was told when I record a when I was recommended a GLP. So GLP that's the the thing in all of them diabetes and weight loss. I was told when I was recommended a GLP that quote, There are no cons to the drugs to the drug. Is that irresponsible to say? What do we think? Yes, it is very irresponsible to say there are no cons or side effects to a drug. So I'm going to quote here from the AMA Journal of ethics. Informed consent, What must a fish physician disclose to a patient involved consent is at the heart of shared decision making a recommended approach to medical treatment decision in which patients actively participate with their doctors, patients must have adequate information if they are able to play a significant role in making decisions that reflect their own values, and preferences. And physicians play a key role as educators in this process. And so they talk about here like the legalities of it. And they talk about here like the the inception of this and the story about how this man was given surgery, and then there was a 1% risk of paralysis and he got paralysis, and the doctor hadn't told him and the patient sued. And then these kind of these outline key pieces to say, like what doctors need to do in the future, so that patients have are able to give informed consent. So the court held that instead of here adhering to the community disclosure, standard standard, physicians are now required to disclose information if it is reasonable to do so. Essentially, to establish true informed consent, a physician is now required to disclose all risks that might affect a patient's treatment decisions. So basically, if you were to take a drug, and you weren't told about the side effects, and then you had the side effects, that is something that you could sue the doctor for. Someone says, how do people get access to this? I'm 100% not going to take it just curious how a doctor decides to prescribe it. Yeah, so mentioned in the last episode, to be prescribed, we go V, which is not legal in Canada, or UK. It is in in the US. So first is living live in America.

Unknown Speaker 38:12

And then you have to have a BMI of minimum 27 plus another comorbidity. So basically, you have to have a condition that's related to fatness, which is absolutely bullshit, or have a BMI of 30 and have no conditions. And then it would be prescribed if you're in other countries. Doctors are prescribing ozempic, which is the diabetes drug off label. And theoretically, there would be no, they could just do whatever right. If their patients want it. They can prescribe it off label. So when you're seeing people on social media holding up the week over thing, it's likely that they're in America, right? Okay, continuing the egg burps they didn't warn me of the side of any side effects except possible stomach discomfort. I was given it as a treatment for PCOS. A year ago I did feel less hungry but I couldn't deal with the egg books. So I read that out of order. Just the egg works. By the way, weight loss is not a treatment for PCOS. There are many resources out there to to to talk about how you treat PSP so s outside of weight loss. It's well established that weight gain is caused by PCOS not the other way around. Weight Gain doesn't cause PCOS. I was offered it because my blood work was quote close to type two diabetes and it would help me lose weight. It was clear it was about weight loss but using blood work is a scare tactic. Yeah, so that's the thing is the pre diabetes is a scam pre diabetes is not a real condition. pre diabetes is when someone has normal blood work blood, their blood looks good and 3% of people who have pre diabetes go on to have type two diabetes it's absolute bullshit marketing tactic from drug companies it's not a thing. Losing weight is not going to stop you from having diabetes if you have that genetic predisposition for it. Someone says do they screen for eating disorders before prescribing? The answer is there's been no no one is no one has said told them to do that. I mean, how often have you has your doctor said to you eat less and exercise more without asking you what you eat and how much you exercise lose weight without asking you if you have had a history of eating disorder so and if you are I would, I would guess that people who have eating disorders or history of eating disorder are more likely to to seek out something to make them thin Okay, here's someone who is not sure what their job is exactly, but currently have a team patient with severe malnutrition and new eating disorder after being prescribed this drug. Along with metformin, Metformin is another diabetes weight loss drug, but with very low weight loss about a year ago in the setting of quote, excessive weight gain and PCOS. Timing considering the horrific AAP guidelines that just came out and expecting I will see more of it. In the coming months. Pediatricians are causing so much harm. Yeah, just to think that some poor kids are being anyone. Okay, I was on it for type two diabetes but was taking off it in late November after being on it for more than a year. The side effects for me were way were just too bad and did not go away. I know others on it also for diabetes who have had no side effects. I also have a friend who quite sadly keeps trying to convince her doctor to let her take it and she is not a diabetic. I was on it for pre diabetes and weight loss for three months before I could not handle it anymore. It made me nauseous with the first injection. The by the second week, I was no longer able to eat. I was so sick. I told my doctor about this that I was going days without eating and was told good. Maybe you can finally lose weight. in month two I stopped digesting what little food I did eat. Trigger warning here graphic descriptor description of vomiting. Skip ahead 30 seconds. One day I threw up. This is gross, sorry. And it was the eggs I had eaten the day before. 26 hours earlier. The food was just sitting in my stomach and not moving. I was dizzy and exhausted all the time because I was eating under 300 calories a day. It was traumatic. I had to stop working and go on disability. At the three month mark I convinced my doctor it wasn't worth it. Please give me something else and came off it took six months to get my stomach back to normal normal not worth it and I was treated with no compassion about the side effects because I'm a fat person. On a side note, I have chronic pain from age four. I had a 15 year eating disorder and many other health issues including IBS and Hashimotos and mental health struggles like depression and anxiety anxiety is Empik messed me up in all facets of my health. It made everything worse but the doctor didn't care. He didn't care because I lost 15 pounds I just so fucked up. And yeah, that lessens the doc didn't care because I lost 15 pounds. Doesn't didn't care that I can't work from the horrific side effects that I can't eat for days. If a thin person said I cannot eat that would be He immediately holy shit we need to this is this is malnutrition and fat people are just as easily able to be malnourished as thin people how to say this is so this is another one hard to say why I'm taking as Empik I have insulin resistance and the doctor says it's for that but it sure is how feels weight loss is wanted because that is how efficiency is being measured before blood draws. I don't feel trust even though my doctor does the most most possible for not doing a weight center treatment but doesn't feel right yeah yeah because what's what's wait got to do with it. Another story my mother was prescribed sucks Ender after a truly terrible doctor visit full of fat shaming. My mom is the same size as me, someone who's a mid fat. Her doctor who she had been seeing for 20 years recently went on an anti fat rampage and talked to my mother and talked to my mother and sister in really abusive ways and insisted my mother go on sucks Ender for weight loss. My mum swear she wanted it to because she's because she's just internalized so much anti fat bias over her life. She wasn't told the implication of the meds and was violently throwing up when she took it. She did stop taking it thankfully she's also been denied health care and has been told is because of her weight, she needs a knee replacement and her doctor says she quote has to lose at least 40 pounds before doing the surgery. It's so enraging

Unknown Speaker 46:40

healthcare being held hostage is it's just so distressing right to end and you know, for your mom and your sister to we've experienced that, like it makes me want to go in and and just

Unknown Speaker 46:59

you know, tell off that doctor this person says literally every one of my best friends is using it is so hard trying to be on a journey of body neutrality and intuitive eating well friends, while watching Wait, literally pour off all my friends help. Yeah, this is tough. This is really tough, you know what, and I have have compassion for your friends because it's almost as it's almost guaranteed that in a year's time, they're going to be the same way a highway. And, and that's the thing is with anything like this, it can be really difficult, you know, because we've got FOMO I could be taking this drug and I could be thin and seeing your friends doing it, people that you love and care about and they're losing weight. Like shit. They're seeing success from this drug. This is touted as a miracle drug. And, and so, of course, of course, and, and so what I say to a lot of folks is no matter what it is, if someone's gone on diet, they're having stomach amputation, surgery, stomach squeezing surgery, whatever the taking pills, is. See if you can wait it out. And just see what happens. Because what study show what years and years of, of, of, of experience and seeing what happens with this stuff is it's not going to probably work out for them. And so that's really tough for them. And it's hard for you to see them go through that and also that hope of maybe you should do that thing and that they're hope of I finally got a thing that's going to help me is really tough. It's really tough. And especially to see you know, people on frickin Tiktok and Instagram being like I'm taking this thing from my house. And now we know now you've listened to these episodes, we know that it's not going to make us thinner, long term, and it's not going to improve our health

Unknown Speaker 49:28

someone says I had a doctor prescribe it to me last year for a few months. It was horrible, but it did lead that did lead to a discussion with my therapist that ended up with me opening up about disordered eating and I've been working with a fat positive nutritionist to eat more ever since the meds get did give me horrible acid reflux that never went away though. Also, the doctor told me about the side effects, but did say that they weren't important and They were really just the FDA being overly cautious. Which is not true. Is not true the FDA are not being overly cautious with a warning. That's that's a doctor that you could you could say guess what, with Purdue and

Unknown Speaker 50:31

oxycontin that is the exact message that they gave to doctors that the FDA is being overly cautious they Purdue what was even before the drug was recalled was was forced to write forced to give a huge settlement but also forced to write letters to doctors saying they are really addictive. And then that letter was followed up with a visit from a sales rep who said hey, that letter the FDA made it write it and they know it's a load of rubbish, but you know, you know how it is. They're being overly over cautious. And it's actually really fine. They had sales conferences, sales meetings at Purdue, making jokes about how addictive it is and how to trick doctors into believing it wasn't that addictive. And so what are the what are the chances that this company who is inside a gang busters absolutely bananas revenue stream from this drug is gonna tell doctors, the FDA is being overly cautious. What are the chances? I'd say pretty pretty good. This person says I went to my doctor with disordered eating concerns and was told his Empik was a great drug for weight loss because that's exactly what you need when you have disordered eating is something that's going to give you more disordered eating and that I should consider it since my weight was clearly bothering me. I said no thank you and I heard it it had bad side effects and she said most people agree that Nausea is no big deal I still declined absolutely outrageous. Outrageous so mad about it. All of these stories are just I keep thinking about I have so I have IBS and I have to go and probably get another you know camera at the bottom. And the last time I saw the gastric intolerant gastroenterologist she was like, ah, who knows what you've got, but you should lose weight. Because that's gonna that's gonna make you not have IBS. lol at that time, I wasn't I didn't know know any of this stuff. And so I was just kind of like and so that's something that's been coming up and I've just been thinking about it so much because I'm going back to the same person about her bringing up as Empik or something. And I've been having conversations with are in my mind of me being like so angry and just being like, okay, so have asked me if I have a history of disordered eating. Have you asked me if this is something that that is safe for me have you asked me if I have a history of a thyroid cancer in my family? Have you asked him like no have you got any evidence based way for me to lose weight no. So why the fuck are you telling me this unethical, non evidence based thing like recommending this thing that is that is that is a fucked up. So novo, they've got they've had many lawsuits and scandals. So five years ago, Novo Nordisk was ordered to pay 58.6 5 million to the federal government and state Medicaid programs for misleading physicians about the potential risk for developing medulla re thyroid carcinoma. MTC a rare form of cancer while taking Victoza so remember, Victoza is the diabetes version or success saxenda Seven whistleblowers came forward, alleging that some Novo Nordisk sales representative downplayed the significance of the FDA requirement for disclosure saying it was unimportant or in error. According to the government's complaint, Novo Nordisk actually provided sales teams with training specifically intended for them to learn how to assuage any concerns about the FTAs disclosure requirement during conversations with physicians following the training sales rep. presented his use tactics like claiming physician should not be concerned about MTC because it's easy to treat if a patient does get it that year, Victoza prescribes prescriptions generated more than 1 billion in sales, so 1 billion in sales and their penalty was 58 point 6 million. It makes financial sense for them to lie and to look mislead. This is a quote from drug watch. New investigations have documented Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk, and Sanofi, who are the big three insulin manufacturers have raised insulin prices in lockstep for years Bloomberg, which first reported on the pattern called it shadow pricing, meaning one company shadowing another price price increased by almost the same amount. The difference is usually so small that there's no competitive advantage for one product over the others. In November 2016, two members of Congress, Senator Bernie Bernie Sanders and of Vermont and rep. Elijah Cummings authored a letter to the US Justice Department and Federal Trade Commission calling for investigations into the price hikes by three companies and others. The three companies were named among the defendants in a 69 count class action lawsuit. In a New Jersey federal court the suit claimed the manufacturers colluded with pharmacy benefit managers to fix insulin prices and violated federal antitrust laws. The three BP BB EMS named in the suit, CVS Health Express Scripts and optim R X control 80% of the industry overseeing prescription coverage of 180 million Americans no and also shipped. Just two months later, in May 2017, Eli Lilly raised the price of their insulin drug by 7.8% to $274 for a 10 milliliter vial, Novo Nordisk followed suit raising the price of its competing insulin 7.9% to 274. So $1 difference, a difference between the two prices of just 88 cents this is from first Pharma. After Novo Nordisk allegedly told investors it was resistant to industry wide insulin pricing pressures. Some shareholders brought a class action lawsuit claiming they were misled. On Friday in a federal district court in New Jersey Novo Nordisk agreed to $100 million settlement with those disgruntled investors. This is from a quote from Louise in untrapped podcast quote in the USA concerns about pancreatic cancer risks with liraglutide led to a staggering 1500 lawsuits against Novo and Merck who also make a GLP one agonist diabetes drug. Novo have also pissed off the US government in September 2022. They cuffed up coughed up 6.3 million American dollars to settle another lawsuit was which was brought by the Department of Justice, which accused them of violating US law by selling injection needles to the government that hat that it had manufactured in countries that were not designated. And it seems that Novo just still haven't learned from their 58 million lawsuit because they're back at it back again in very hot water with the PMC pa which is the prescription medicines Code of Practice authority in the UK for this time running over training, which was actually an advert for six Ender, and they didn't go disclose that they were paying for the whole thing. The PMC Pa said that it was very concerned about the potential impact on patient safety proper by providing unbalanced information to a wide audience and they were so concerned about novice behavior that they they're going to undergo an audit which is the highest level of punishment that the PC pm CPA can make. So, if we look about if we look at what I mentioned Fen Fen before so Fen Fen there's there's an episode where talk about Fen Fen Google like diet drugs. I think, yeah, it was a couple of years ago. So Fen Phen was released in 99 to Fen Phen was a diet drug that killed people right. With Fen Fen was released in 1992. In 1994, they were aware of 48 cases of cardiovascular disease and pull them out pulmonary hypertension, but they only reported for to the FDA The side effects were predicted, okay. In their research, they saw that it caused issues with the heart. And and then people reported it, and then they didn't report it to the FDA, they got caught lying and the drug wasn't removed. And so I'm thinking with we go V, we know that the side effects that's going to come up, right? Cancer and the heart and you know, all these other side effects.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:31

And so it's going to take a couple of years for people to be reporting these two we go V is we go, we're gonna be telling the FDA, I mean, from their past history, they've not been an ethical company, obviously focused on profits. So they, they told the FDA, oh, only four people, only four is fine. And the 41 cases that were reported, there were probably many, many others that weren't reported. Right. So they continue selling the drug. In 1997. A study showed that the people were having heart problems, and the combination drug was recalled. And there was a 4.7 5 billion settlement in 2000. So the drug was on the market for five years. And there's an estimate estimate that 342 million prescriptions were filled in that time. And so we know that them they made way more profits and 4.7 5 billion. And so the settlement is, I mean, it's worth it for them. And the way that we go V is marketed is, is right out of the Purdue pharma playbook. If you want to learn more about Purdue pharma watch dope sick on Disney plus, such a good series devastating. absolutely outrageous. So let's summarize all of this. And then we'll talk quickly about some other things or some other drugs and whatnot. So ozempic, we go v semaglutide. Alongside dieting and exercise will make you lose weight, just like any diet will. And over just over a year, it's about two pounds a month. So the average weight loss for 68 weeks 5056 to 68 Weeks was 18 to 33 pounds. That's the success under study as well. Just like all other diets out there begins to fail at approximately approximately approximately for a year for those who continue to take it. Those who stopped taking it see their weight regain. We have no long term data showing how much regain but a year after stopping the drug those with moderate weight loss regain two thirds of preintervention weight. Those who had more significant weight loss regained more weight and rapidly 95% of people have side effects most common side effects like nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, constipation, stomach pain, headache, fatigue, upset stomach dizziness, feeling bloated belching, gas, stomach flu and heartburn 10% has serious side effects like pancreatitis which can lead to pancreatic cancer, gall stones, gastrointestinal issues, acute kidney injury suicidal ideation and behaviors we go and sex Ender come with a blackbox warning or a box warning for fibroid C cell tumors. Okay thyroid cancer, the highest safety related warning that medications can have assigned by the FDA. Every single one of the studies 14 authors for we go V disclosed receiving funds of some kind from Novo Nordisk, and three authors were actually employed by Novo and owned stock owned stock. It has not been approved to be covered by insurance so from the Canada agency for drugs and technologies in health, quote, even though results from for clinical trials showed that patients treated with we go V for 68 weeks, so the full clinical trials were wrapped up into one paper, by the way, lost more weight compared to those who received a placebo. There was no evidence to show this weight loss translates to improvements in weight related comorbidities, example cardiovascular complications, osteoarthritis, and sleep apnea because they were not studied. Although results showed improvements in the health related quality of life. Why would someone have huge improvements in health related quality of life if they have a lower weight? I wonder could it be weight stigma The minimally importance difference was not met. And so the they're saying the improvements were so low, and it remains unknown if the differences were clinically meaningful appetite suppressants can disrupt our relationship with hunger signals, which can lead to eating disorders. That's not a quote from the Canada thing. But that's just me talking also is an experimental drug and patients are not able to give informed consent. They are not ethical evidence based medications. Long story short, don't bother. I mean, if you're a diabetic and you're taking it for diabetes, you know if it works for you, great. Also we have more Manjaro morn Manjaro aka Terzi peptide peptide, Terzi peptide manufactured by Eli Lilly Tirzah, retired is diabetes drug. Oh, Eli Lilly, we're like, people can lose a little bit. So it's in the newest of the drugs. It was approved in the US middle of 2022 for type two diabetes. And doctors are already prescribing it off label for weight loss Masano. Exact same outcomes. We also have resellers of these drugs. An example of a reseller is a company calibrate, who will have. So it'll be it'll be like a company saying we help you lose weight. And so we give you a drug and we offer you counseling, and we offer you a meal plan, right. And then they will prescribe they will help you get a prescription for a drug, which you shouldn't be getting a prescription for, if you for whatever reason. And so they will tell you the things to say to your doctor to get a prescription. They have small print on their website where they indemnify themselves. And so if you want to bring a class action lawsuit against against them, when you have bad outcomes, then you can't because they have they've protected themselves so that you can't sue them for if you die, you know Jordan Underwood on Instagram is great using they he pronouns who says unless social media people explicitly this explicitly say that they are fat lib. Don't be surprised when they pedal ozempic. So you are going to see if you've not already people who you follow plus size influencers normally it's people who call themselves like a plus size influencer plus plus size fashionista, saying I'm thinking about my house, I'm going on as Empik. And that is probably going to be very disappointing and triggering and sad. And you know, anyone who's on it, I just want to say if if it's if it's working for you great. If you know you do what you want, right? But also hit you know, these two episodes is saying like here, here's the real evidence, here's a real information about it. And and I understand, you know, I am mad at the drug manufacturers, I'm mad at the doctors. I am sad that people feel like they have to take it because they feel like there is no other way. Right? And I feel great compassion for those people. And I just I feel like, Oh, someone I know. One of my neighbors mentioned that he started taking it and I just I'm just like, oh, you know, and, you know, what do I say as a fact of est in that situation is is is? You know, I hope it works out for you. I hope it does what you want it to do, you know, I don't hope that you're going to have all these adverse reactions and that you're going to end up being a higher weight and be sad, and it cause issues for you. I hope but I know that statistically that it's very much likely not going to be helpful for you. And so it makes me sad that these people have been tricked into this dangerous drug. And yeah, and so if someone finds it intolerable to live in a world that hates fat people, which makes sense, I mean, Jesus is awful. And as well if you have other marginalized identities if you are disabled or a person of color, if you're if you're poor, etc, etc, etc. All these other things will also play into wanting to get relief. And if someone says to you, this is going to give you relief from issues real or perceived, then it makes sense that you would say Yes, even if there's bad side effects. And also, if you are taking this drug and you're not seeing weight loss, please no, it is not your fault. You're not doing anything wrong. It's the drugs fault because the drug doesn't work in the way that we've been told that it works. So, what Jordan Underwood is saying, He's saying that unless someone is explicitly Hey, I'm fat positive, and I like being fat, and I want fat people to thrive and survive and all that type of stuff, then

Unknown Speaker 1:10:39

you can presume that they're not. Because if they're not talking about that stuff, that stuff's important, right? And so then don't be surprised when they're like, hey, as MP is great. A lot as well. A lot of people are being being sponsored, right. So we're not on Tik Tok. That was traumatic. There's a lot of fat doctors who were using the hashtag when I say fat doctors, not doctors who are fat but doctors who apparently treat fatness. So basically, con artists. One said one of them says fat people's brains are diseased. And so they were using they were you he was using the language of, of, you know, anti weight stigma is not the fat people's fault. He says fat people's brains are diseased. And so you need to take his Empik there were people showing before and afters it was a barrage of of triggering content. One doctor who specializes in fatness responded to a real where a fat person says she's gained double the weight back. And then. And then. So she says this person is doing energy saying I gained double the weight back and then the doctor comes on screen and says, Wow, what is that? What does the study show and then she shows a study where it shows people are gaining weight. And then she shows a follow up study where it shows that people gain two weight. And she says it doesn't say that they gain weight. And I'm like, What? What? So then, you know, literally showing like graphs and stuff and then just trying to trick here. And so then you're like, Oh, it's a doctor who showed me a graph. Hmm. They're hoping that you don't see that the graph behind is in the shape of a tick. So you don't see? And she was like, Well, I mean, if you come off it of course you're going to lose weight. And was like Well, that's what the person just said. What are you talking about? It just doesn't make sense. So what are the solutions? What are the solutions? So if you want to lose weight how do you lose weight? Unfortunately there is no way long term which I know is devastating you can temporarily lose weight not everyone can but you know

Unknown Speaker 1:13:10

to what end but the thing is though, you know we were like what a temporarily lose weight.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:20

I've got a wedding coming up, I want it to be thin for my wedding. weight cycling is so harmful for you really is and you know some people value thinness so much that they you know, they'll take that they'll take the harms of of weight cycling but please don't be sad when you when you are not thin or thinner forever and then actually become bigger because of it. So then people will say Well shit, well, does that mean that they're not that I'm going to be unhealthy forever? Well, Health at Every Size has shown us that if you engage in health promoting behaviors, one health promoting behavior for example, not smoking. People who are fat and and don't smoke have pretty much the exact same outcomes and life expectancy of those who are thin and smoke. Or if you engage in other health promoting activities, basically any risk from fatness is is disappeared. And when we say risk from fatness it's most likely the bias that you're experiencing it's most likely the weight cycling and it's most likely as a subpar healthcare that that shows that the fat folks have higher risk in certain areas. Not the fatness on someone's body. So we can improve our health sometimes not always because most of health is not in our control but if you Want to improve your strength, your flexibility, your stamina, etc, you can do that through, you know, physiotherapy or yoga or, or strength training or you know, etc, etc, etc, the same thing as what a thin person will do. And yeah, it might be more difficult in a bigger body. But there is no way to make your body long term, a smaller body. And that might be something that you just have to have to learn to live with, when it's sometimes people can't accept that, and they and they say, Well, you know, I really want it and I know you really want it. And so it might be that you need to go and do take a drug, it might be that you need to go and have surgery to really convince yourself that it's not possible for you. And maybe you might be the, you know, the percent, you might be the percent that it will work out for, and everything's good for you. And if that's the case, and that's great for you. But the chances are that you're going to be in the 95 plus percent where it doesn't work out like that, and I don't want you to blame yourself. So what is the answer to to all of this stuff health of every size, it's reducing weight stigma, it's learning to accept ourselves and unlearning health ism, and throwing Novo nor discs. We go V in the bin, and all the other weight loss drugs in the bin. Yeah, so I'm leaving here. My goodness, we've gone gone gone long on this show as well. If you've enjoyed our show together today, then I have Koh Phi Kofi where you can buy me a coffee. Or if you would like the size diversity Resource Guide, which has everything you need to help get size diversity into your life. Books, TEDx talks, where to shop podcasts, etc, etc. for five bucks, you can subscribe and you will get your hands on that immediately. So yeah, thanks for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate you being here. And I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Goodbye.