Episode 163 Transcript

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You're listening to the best value podcast episode 163 hustled culture versus anti fat culture. Let's do it.

Speaker 1 0:23

Hello, welcome to this episode. So glad you're here. I'm excited to talk about what we're going to talk about today. Before we do just a little update on kofi. Kofi is a place that you can donate. If you'd like the podcast, we have a goal of 680 Donal hairs a month so that I break even on producing the podcast. So it cost me about $170 a month, at least per I mean, per episode to create the podcast and that's not factoring my time or labor. And with around four shows a month, that's an average of 680. So we're where we're at right now is we I've been doing this for a couple of months now asking for Kofi donations. Where we're at today is a monthly subscription value of $210. And that's one offs of one off donations of 50 and subscriptions of 160. So that's where the where we want to go is the subscriptions because then that's a recurring small donation and you can donate as little as five US dollars and for that you will get the size diversity resource guide and my undying love my fatty love. So if you are interested in donating, go to the link in the show notes if you appreciate this free content that I provide you or if you just like me, or just like fat stuff, and go get there that says Meza. Okay, so it's almost a year ago now I did an episode called food, Faith MLMs. And cults, which was a was a humdinger of an episode got some some pretty interesting characters in that episode. Like when shambling who was the eat your way into heaven, MLM diet? Cult. Person, oh, my goodness, and all sorts of other people. And so I've been really interested into the in the intersection of other not so great systems and cultures and ideologies and how they intersect with diet culture, and anti fatness and, and so I've been thinking about, I've been thinking about a lot about online business stuff. So I've done personally, a lot of online business training, and spent a lot of money on understanding how to run an online business. And I fitted into that slot of the online business world so well. And now that I've taken a step back for the last two years, I'm like okay, that was a lot of toxic stuff in there and helpful stuff. And a lot of stuff that is really similar to diet culture to anti fat rhetoric, anti fat culture. I'm gonna I'm just making up this term anti fat culture. I'm sure someone has said it before. But I liked that I liked the focusing on anti fat culture versus diet culture, because diet culture, I was watching the show, there was a bunch of fat activists on the show this like talk show, it was great. And the host kept saying toxic diet culture. And I was thinking, I bet the audience many in the audience will hear when they say toxic diet culture or even diet culture. I bet they will hear extreme dieting culture, and not any dieting. And I mean, I feel like if people want to diet Go ahead, it's your body you do what you want, right? But really what what is it we were trying to say with diet culture, we were trying to say you know, anti diet culture. What we're trying to say is, we do not support anti fatness which is manifested in diet culture with the continued pressure and belief that thinness should be obtained and is easily obtained? And won't the fat people just get their shit together and get thin? And, and so I feel like we should step away from saying diet culture and be more explicit with our terms of anti fat culture, because then people are not going to get confused of, well, you know, I'm just I'm dieting to dieting for health reasons. Therefore, it's not based in systemic anti fatness, because I'm not doing anything. You know, I'm not doing a juice cleanse, like my bum or something, you know, because that's silly. That's toxic diet culture. I'm just doing it because, you know, whatever. And again, if someone chooses to diet or pursue any type of weight loss, that's, you know, whatever, that's them, you know, but it's this amorphous concept, that fatness is immoral, unhealthy, bad, that we want to detangle, right. I sound like a little sound like a guinea pig. When I do that. Then I screwed up guinea pig that's crying. Anyway, so I take inspiration from lots of different places, all like everyone getting inspired by different things. And so what inspired this podcast episode was a tweet thread from Amy Porto, Dr. Amy Porto, on the Twitter. And Amy has made some great points. Let me see who Amy is. What is Amy DOCTOROFF? I'd love to know Amy Porto says disrupting the mainstream mainstream diet health and fitness market with real science and data humor and a bit of common sense. Yes, Amy Porto I love it. Okay, so what Dr. Amy Porter have set his was said said was the parallels between the messaging of diet culture and hustle culture, a thread. So this is from December 15 2020. Do and Dr. Amy says both diet culture and hustle culture emphasize you aren't enough until you reach the quote goal. And then only then will you be happy. Both diet culture and hustle culture emphasize you aren't working hard enough. If you don't reach the goal. You just need to restrict more, move more and work more. Both diet culture and hustle culture emphasize you quote failed because you didn't follow the rules correctly or do it right. The problem is you both diet, culture and hustle culture emphasize you can't trust your body, or your instincts or need the secrets discovered by self proclaimed expert. Both diet culture and hustle culture normalize and celebrate disordered eating disordered habits. Both diet culture and hustle culture emphasize scheduling every minute to be productive, thus distracting you from sitting with uncomfortable emotions, having difficult conversations and setting boundaries because you are so busy creating content and counting ailments. Neither the size of your pants nor the size of your bank account determines your value as a person you are worthy today, just as you are. Thank you, Dr. Amy Bordeaux. I'll link that to that thread in the show notes. Should you want it show notes facebook.com forward slash 163. So I always be I've been I've been I've been ruminating on this ruminating the wrong word, thinking about it. And I think we can go further. I think that there are even more and I think you know, on Twitter, you've got a little box to say this. And an Amy was probably just like, Oh, here's some ideas and not not like oh, let's make an hour long podcast episodes. So anyway, I want you to expand on what Amy was saying. And I'm sure Amy's got lots of expansions that that's there as well. But I was thinking about when I was thinking about this, I was really thinking about white supremacy culture. White supremacy culture is something that I am. It's so annoying to be in a friendship with me because I'm always like, oh, yeah, I'm thinking about oh, it's white supremacy culture, or I'm like, Look at this belief. Oh, yeah, it's probably me me buying into white supremacy. I'm always just like white supremacy. Gotcha. Well. It sounds like everything comes down to it like Oh, my goodness, my internalized white supremacist ideals that I'm trying to unlearn. Anyway. So Timo Oaken from Dr. Works, links in the show notes. has, has, has written about this and Um, their work is deeply tied to this. And you can just if you do want to do a quick Google, just Google white supremacy, culture dot info, and you'll find information, I've also got kind of like a cheat sheet that is available that Tamar has made, which goes over the characteristics. And so this is in relation to

Speaker 1 10:25

work culture. But it manifests in all different types of cultures. And a really quick kind of, I'm going to go over them, and then I'm going to come back to it later. White supremacy culture is perfectionism, sense of urgency, defensiveness, quality, quantity over quality. Only one right way. paternalism, either or Thinking, Power hoarding, fear of open conflict. individualism, I'm the only one progresses bigger, more objectivity, right to comfort and worship of the written word. So that is what white supremacy culture is, I want to go in a little bit more. But I noticed that a lot of diet culture, anti fat culture, hustle culture, millionaire, seeking culture is really deeply intertwined with white supremacist culture, right? They're all kind of supporting each other, and how we don't even realize it right? You know, it's so it's so you can be so innocent of like, oh, I, you know, I have an online business me, and I want to be successful. And I don't know how to run an online business. So I'm gonna learn from people who've done it before. What they know, is what is right, and I am a hard worker, I'm gonna do it. And if I don't succeed, it's my fault. Or the fault of people who are not succeeding, they're not working as hard. And now taking a step back on my Nelida has a lot of toxic shit. And what really did it for me, was recognizing in a lot of the online business world communities, they have really invested in in anti fatness and never talk about privilege. They never talk about how, Oh, hey, I may I'm a middle class, sis, het white man who's nondisabled living in America. And I, my parents have wealth, and I live in their basement. And so that is why I'm successful. Because I have access to resources, and proximity to privilege. People don't say that, because they want to sell this formula to success. And this is same with diet culture to have an anti fat culture of, I'm thin because of my hard work, not because of my proximity to privilege, the fact that I'm just a naturally thin person, do what I say and you will also become thin. So let's break these down. Let's break these down into specific categories. I'm also going to have this as a post on the Instagrams. So if you'd like this, and you want to refer to this because I know sometimes referring listening to me talk and not being able to see I've put this into like a a grid type of thing. Not being able to see what I'm referring to it sometimes can be I like I like looking at things, not everyone's like that, but that might be helpful. So check out the Instagram as we go through this. Okay, so I'm going to be talking about the characteristic and then how anti fat culture and then how hustle culture both have that same characteristic. Okay, so the first one is binary thinking, which if you remember, that was a white supremacy culture, which was either or thinking so binary, we're thinking here, good or bad. And when you think about anti fat culture, like fatness is bad. thinness is good. Fat is unhealthy, thin is healthy. Some food is good, and some food is bad. If you eat less and exercise more, you will have a thinner body and how that relates to hustle culture. I've realized I've not even defined hustle culture. I just I'm just presuming you know what it is, but you might not. So let me just I'm just going to Google hustle culture. So I'm gonna read a definition for you. What is half our current? Hustle culture emphasizes a common modern workplace describes a common modern workplace environment that emphasizes hard work, and long hours as the key to success it becomes increasingly popular recently with the companies encouraging their employees to put extra effort and work hours for better results. Basically, hustle culture is, a lot of it is as well tied with the online business world of if you start a business, or if you have a side hustle, hustle culture is if Work, Work work, you're going to be successful, as long as you work hard as long as you sacrifice. And if you are not successful, it's because you didn't work hard enough, you didn't sacrifice or you don't know the secrets and pay this, this influencer to tell you the secrets. So that's hustle culture. And it can be it can be in any environment really, like we're talking about the workplace. But you know, you could be at the gym, and they can say hustle like, you know, don't listen to what your body is saying that that kind of push yourself beyond what feels good. So the binary thinking and hustle, hustle culture is working hard is good. Those who don't are lazy. If I follow the rules and work hard, I will be rich, those who aren't rich are unintelligent and unwilling to hustle. So that binary thinking if we think about it, before I went on diets, I had this self belief, which was other people fail at diets, because they don't try they give up at the first hurdle. They're not really committed, not like me, I am gonna go hardcore on this, I am gonna do this one diet become thin, and forever be happy. And I know that I can trust myself because I really want this, I really, really want this. And I have self discipline. That was my thinking, and then did the diet and was able to successfully lose weight temporarily. And then obviously was not able to sustain the diet because I have this thing called a pesky thing called a human body. Turns out it needs food. And it needs rest. Weird. And then with hustle culture to being in the online world, it was the same, I had the same belief. And I did not connect it to anti fat stuff, which was, I believe in myself. So I've always I've always had this belief in myself. And so the people who are not successful with their online business, is because they're probably they're probably weak willed. They probably they probably don't want to work as hard as I will, they probably will give up the first hurdle. They don't want it as much as I do. I want it so bad. Therefore, I will do anything to to make it work. And working hard is good, because it's gonna make me successful. So there's no kind of without binary thinking, there's no nuance there, right? It's like I am good. They are bad. I am hardworking, they are lazy. And a plus b equals six C hard working hard equals making money working hard, sacrificing, having the secret knowledge equals success. Not eating and exercising equals success of a thin body. And there's no there's no real critical thinking skills without those beliefs. Okay, next guilt. Guilt is a characteristic of anti Vax culture, not engaging in the pursuit of fitness carries the burden of guilt for those who are bought into anti fat culture. Eating certain quote bad foods or not working out induces guilt. And with hustle culture, taking time off, not getting up early, working late and having quote, no excuses, induces guilt, then that sounds similar as well to like, hardcore working out, which is a part of anti fat culture. Like, if you take time to do things for your body, your natural natural instincts and needs,

Speaker 1 19:05

which is rest, which is not this hardcore gogogo then you will feel guilty because it says something about your character about who you are. So they both have guilt as a characteristic and other characteristic. Do more rest when you're successful. So anti that culture tells us restrict more and be more committed to dieting and fat hate to see the best results. This restriction is temporary until you're thin. Have you felt that you're like I can do the diet because I'm going to temporarily restrict and like you know, I can hold my breath. And then when I'm feeling I can go back to eating like a human being. thing is it doesn't work out like that. You go back to eating like a human being and you put weight on because your body's like Bert, what are you doing? When a diet fails next time you're going to be more invested and more committed to succeeding at any cost. So just do more. Get more creative why not, you know, stick the herbs that we have an edge we have had on one Yoni Yoni pearls, the plugin bags of bags of herbs and hessie and sacks that you put up your badge that apparently might be small. So do more, you know? How's it the badge, surgery, pills, wraps, etc. With the hustle culture, it's hustle harder, sacrifice more, keep your head down, just until you succeed and then you can take a break. And what about the phrase sleep when you're dead? If you are unsure about what hustle culture looks like, go and watch the videos of Gary Vee. Just Google Gary Vee Vee just the letter V. Or you can put v e or come up. His name's Gary Vaynerchuk. The epitome of hustle culture, like can't just watching his videos made me tired. I used to like him. I used to think I was like, yeah, he's telling you how it is. Now I'm like, Oh, he needs a nap. He feels like he's gonna implode at any second because he's just like, go go go, like constantly making videos constantly, like, you know, just Yeah, nonstop. And if you're not like him caught nonstop, you ain't going to be a millionaire billionaire like him. Obviously. That's sarcasm. Next characteristic is to ignore your intuition. So quiet in that voice that says this isn't anti fat culture quite in that voice that says engaging in anti fatness doesn't serve you don't listen to your body screaming for food or rest be committed to colluding with oppressive systems, even if it doesn't feel right. So there's a lot of that with with anti fatness of like. But you know, this isn't really feel good, I don't like it. But I really want to get to my goal of fineness, I really want to be seen as good be seen as attractive be seen as worthy. And if we think about hustle culture, if we think about ignore your intuition, you need to be all in, even if you know it feels extreme or risky. If you have doubts, then that's just your inner saboteur speaking, or you being weak willed, versus these being genuine concerns. So for an example, like ignore your intuition, here's an example like I did this expensive program online program. And before doing it, you apply for the program, and then you have a call with someone, basically, the you have an a call with someone who's a salesperson. And when you fill out the application, they say, don't even bother filling out this application unless you're willing to drop X amount of money. This program was two grand a month for for not for 12 months, don't even bother. If you don't bother booking a call with us an expert exploration call with us, unless you are ready to pull the trigger right there. And then, and I was like, Okay, well, they don't want time wasters. My intuition spoke up and was like, that doesn't sound so good. Like that sounds like pressure sales tactics. And when people are under pressure, they're not able to make the best decisions. The power balance is an equal here, what's going on? Basically, they're telling you, you have to enroll, you can't even gather information, you have to get the information and immediately enroll, that doesn't sound so good. And then the other part of me was like, you know, hustle culture, you know, it's a risk. But you know, I'm the type of person that will succeed at this. Therefore, I need to take the risk because people who take the risks get the rewards. The program was dogshit the program was just the same old stuff, same old stuff that I'd already learned about online business. Luckily, I stopped paying because I was like, This is fucked up. And also they were super anti fat. And I would I messaged the CEO saying, Whoa, this is really inappropriate. And she was just like, Thanks for your comments. We're not gonna do anything. Well, she didn't one of our assistants did so. And then when I was like, you know, doing all the things in the program, I was doing all the things and then I wasn't, you know, a millionaire within three days. I remember having a call with one of the teachers in the group, my said, you know, I'm doing ABCD EFG H I just, you know, doing everything now like, yeah, you are doing everything. I don't know why then you're not, you know, rolling in money and Then the coach was like, I know what it is, you have a mindset issue. You must not want to be successful. So you're sabotaging yourself in some way. Absolute utter dogshit. Like that for me that was the final straw is that did nanner No, no, no, that was happening. You know? Because it's kind of like, well, if we can't take the blame for something, you know, our program not working, we have to put it on you. And if you complain, it makes you a sore loser. You weren't really doing the work. Think about diet culture. You weren't really doing the diet. Yeah. Okay, so engage in damaging behaviors. That's a characteristic. How does that fit in with anti fat diet and anti fat culture? Well, engaging, damaging behaviors, it doesn't matter how get thin and stay thin, who cares? If this is bad for your health, you'll be thin. With hustle culture, it doesn't matter how you get how much or how get rich and stay rich, who cares if this is bad for your mental health, you'll be rich, who cares what you need to do to get there. Okay, the next characteristic is be busy. In anti fat culture. If you have time to rest, you have time to work out. It only takes x minutes to do a workout. Take the stairs, not the elevator. So constantly be thinking about your body and how not to be fat. not pursuing thinness means that you are lazy and laziness is immoral. How that how being busy relates to hustle culture, you mustn't really want it if you watch Netflix or take time off. Other people who are really committed work till midnight and get up at 5am You're lazy, if you don't, if you have time for friends and family, then you have time to work more. So be busy. Again, this is denying, you know basic human functions of we can't just do that, you know, long term, even short term, like if I have one or two social events in a week. I'm like, I'm done. If I have a particularly busy day at work, I'm like, No, I can't I just can't do anything. And whereas before I would have been like Nah, you need to use a ladder thing. I'm still learning Laziness, laziness being a myth, and the roots of laziness, there's a really good book. Laziness. Laziness is a myth. Lazy isn't licenses ally, Devin price, a really cool trans author. Anyway, it's really interesting. Basically, be lazy. Be lazy is good for you. And it's aligned with social justice. Yeah, but with any of those things, you know, you have to be busy, because that's your Atlassian opportunity you're missing out on because you're weak if you want to rest. The thing is, we don't want to rest we do but what I'm saying is we need to rest. It's not like this fluffy kind of, oh, I just, you know, I'm just feeling just wild today. And so I'm going to just you know, sweep. It's no, I am a human and I, if I want to continue to be alive, I need to sleep, eat, rest, have a nap, watch Netflix, you know, Okay, the next is, trust the quote, experts trust the experts. So in anti fat culture, a few people have seen success, and they know how to do it. And so I must follow their advice as they are experts in being thin. There is a secret formula, and I will learn it from the experts.

Speaker 1 28:59

The amount of dietitians and nutritionists and anyone in the wellness space who get into the wellness space to learn how to be thin to learn what the secret is. And then they realize there is no secret and they're like, oh fuck don't vote we'd like so many hours of my life to learn in the secret. And it turns out it's not avocados is gonna make you thin or whatever. And that's what I feel like a lot of anti diet dietitians. That's their story. You know, not all of them obviously but a lot of them they will tell you Yeah, yeah, I got in because I wanted to learn the secrets I wanted to know how to finally control this out of control body of mine this perceived addiction to food and then realizing oh shit no, like, there is no secret and I'm not addicted to food. I'm just really fucking hungry. And then are dedicated to spreading that that knowledge to others and some people. Obviously most I Titian's go into that without that realisation and continue to find trying to search for the secret. And that's how we would look at people who are successfully thin. And even though they might have always been fit in or you know, thin is just a natural characteristic of who they are, and see them as experts in that if I do it their way they've been successful, therefore, I will be successful. With hustle culture, it's the same, there are a few people who do see success. And if I follow their advice, how could I not be rich? How can I not be successful because I want it as much as them. And they've got these secret techniques that I can't find on YouTube or whatever, I have to pay them the big bucks to find out what the secret techniques are. And turns out the secret techniques are things like being white. Getting money from your parents. Yeah, secret techniques is privilege. access to resources. Yeah. So and also, luck as well. Right. And it's the same with like dieting, I'm saying luck, as in, it's lucky to be thin, but who are those people because there is a small percent of people who, who are able to become thin and stay thin. Like, for me, I feel like they I feel it's the same with hustle culture, I feel like they are probably engaging in disordered eating, to maintain that probably don't know for sure. And I feel like with hustle culture, they are probably engaging in unethical practices. To some degree, I'm not saying unethical, like they're stealing money from people, but you know, maybe being a bit more coercive, then really, they they know, we know, they, they wouldn't like to think of themselves like that. But maybe they are being coercive. One of my favorite influencers, who were in the online space, who I really liked, because he was a fat, he is a fat gay guy. He actually walked away from the online business world, because he found it to be he couldn't align with his morals, with his values, the coercion that he had to engage in to be successful. So he just walked away from it. And I thought that was really cool. And just goes to show kind of like, what is what are the other people who are successful doing? And I know, because they would teach the techniques of what was that was one person that would be teaching, persuasion revolution, and it was like, ethically, manipulating people. And I was like, even then I was like, ethically manipulate people? I don't know. No, that doesn't sound are using you using psychology to get people to give you their money. Anyway, so Okay, so the next characteristic is, things not being based on evidence. So the evidence shows us that the vast majority majority of people will not lose weight. But when you're in anti fat culture, you were not looking at that evidence. Even if you knew it at the time, you probably didn't know at the time, I didn't know at the time, but even if you did, because I probably knew at the time that maybe I knew, like, only 50% of people lose weight. You know, maybe that's what I believed. For. If it was never, that was true. Only 50% and I would be I was like, I'm gonna be in that 50% Because this bitch wants it. And I'm going to work really hard and I'm not going to be lazy like the other fat people who were still fat. So I was ignoring evidence or I was not presented with the evidence, right. So anti fatness is not based on evidence, the idea that fatness is unhealthy and that it's easy to become not fat is not based in good evidence, right? And with hustle culture, the vast majority of people are not going to become millionaires who are taking think about you know, that that fucking dick smear. Andrew Hey, Andrew Tay if you don't know him. I don't I wasn't gonna say Google him. Probably don't. But it was a vice documentary that came out recently, which was interviewing him. And he's just and just an absolute boil that needs to be lanced. Like. He has heard his politics and his, the way he treats women and the way that he talks Some people anyway, so he you know that his whole rhetoric has this thing called, oh, is it it's called a hustler University. Ah, it's called hustler University. That which is also an a scam. It's a pyramid scheme. So the hustler university, they teach you come in, and then recruit and other people to come in. And that's how you're gonna go to become a millionaire, which is not, it's not gonna work. And so that's all of that rhetoric around. If you want it, you'll you'll, you'll do it, you'll you'll, you'll hustle your way. And there's not that evidence, right? There's no evidence that all you need to do is buy a 1299 course. And then you'll become a millionaire. It's not evidence based. Imagine, you know, because we'd all be millionaires, if that's all it took. And then and then well, they say, you know, and you have to hustle, right? You have to, you can't just buy the course you have to hustle. And what does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? Hustle, have privilege. So now the next one, the next characteristic is denying privilege. So those who are successfully thin did it because they are better than the greedy out of control fat people. It has nothing to do with their natural body type, and access to resources. And with hustle culture, those who are rich, are the ones who have hustled the most, who worked the hardest and knew the secrets, it has nothing to do with their proximity to privilege, and access to resources. So what we don't know about most of these hustlers that gurus were looking up to, is that they had access to a ton of things that the average person might not have access to. But their story will be I came from nothing, you know, like that, that one of the Kardashians had that. magazine cover cover that said, self made billionaire. And it's like, did they have millionaire parents? And then you might have some people who were like, I think Gary Vee, who's like, I am self made? I don't know, you know, I don't know his story. But let's pretend that they came from like, from a very poor family. And I don't know, I don't know, they had he had difficult circumstances. He is still a white, or white presenting person. He's still a man. He still lives in America. He still has a personality type that is he's able to communicate, right? He's able to to influence. And then all of those other things that we don't know about, like, did he ever have access to like friendships that meant that he was going to get funding? Or? Or did he have a mother that said, you can live in my spare bedroom for free? Did he have? What else did he have that he's not telling us? Did he exploit others to get to that place? Did he you know, have people working for him and then paying them nothing? And they did that hard work? And he's saying, Oh, it's all me. It's all me. But he was like, exploiting other people. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know his story. But from the people that I've learned from, I've been like, oh, well, okay, well, you know, I don't have a basement that I can live in. I don't have I know, I'm not living in this swanky location, or whatever. And the success that I have the success I have seen, I really feel like, I have this personality privilege. Obviously, I have white privilege. I'm non disabled.

Speaker 1 38:54

I live in Canada, I have a British accent that a lot of people presume that I have a level of intelligence that I might not have. And I just I think, you know, a lot of that stuff. And then I think maybe, you know, look, and, and that also that I've done things, I've done things and I don't think it's because I'm better or smarter. I think it's because I'm mostly neurotypical. And so for me doing things is easier. But say, if I wanted to make money telling people how to have an online business, I couldn't make money like that, right? I couldn't say to people, listen, I have a white skin. So you know, I have a certain personality where I'm able to talk to people. And, you know, my brain happens to work like this. And I have a live in a supportive community. And, you know, because it's not that quick fix binary thinking that we're taught of just do ABC and then you'll be a millionaire, then you'll be 13 or whatever. And I think it's probably hard for people to Uh, people are very, very stuck on, I'm a hard worker. And I feel like we're all hard workers, you know. And that also hard working is not a sign that you're a good person. And in fact, we should not be fetishizing hard work so much, and we should be resting away more. But, you know, I really don't believe that, that people are out there saying I don't want to engage in things that feel productive to me, as long as you know, they their mental health is, is good. I feel like laziness really is. Yeah, it's a myth, like Dr. Devin price sets. Anyway, so yeah, a lot of people who have privilege in the world rich, thin, etc, they didn't get that privilege because of of the contents of their character. And then being a good person, it was a roll of the dice, the luck of the draw, and their previous access to resources. And they probably worked hard to beat everyone, you know, everyone is working hard. And not everyone is gonna see the same success, like one person could see be thin. And as we know, 100 people could follow the exact same diet. And it's only that one person, or maybe one or two other that will see similar success. And it's same with hustle culture. Honestly, I actually, with all of the time that I was in the online business world, I don't know of anyone who has become a millionaire, I don't know anyone who's become really, really rich, I know people who were able to pay their bills. And that's where I that's where I got to able to pay my bills, able to pay my rent, you know. And imagine if they sell programs like that, like if, if they were true, right? If it was based in reality of Give me all your money, and you after five years, we'll get to the place where you can just about pay your rent, or with a diet one, give me like loads of money and spend so much time dieting, and you'll temporarily lose four pounds, and then you'll put back on seven. Or, you know, I'm I'm the case of like, with all my businesses, I think I'm very lucky that I'm able to pay my rent, right? And so for the most people would be Give me your money, and I'll take all your money, and then you'll have to go back and get a job and then feel like a giant failure. I think that's like most people's most people's experiences. Unfortunately, I don't want to listen, I don't want it if people are thinking about going into the online business world, I don't want to make you feel like shit and be like, Oh, it's never gonna work. It can absolutely work. And also, it depends on your level of privilege, and luck. And if it doesn't work for you, this I really don't think it's got a lot to do with who you are as a person in regards to your moral your morality and your ability to get things done, you know.

Speaker 1 43:16

Okay, so you both are invested in, in white supremacy culture. So, anti fatness is invested in perfectionism, and defensiveness, perfectionism of your body defensiveness in regards to defensiveness of the status quo of the science of the information that we now know about fat people and about diets, hustle, culture, individualism, individualism being the I am not going to be working in a group, I need to do this alone. So we have a lot of people who are solo entrepreneurs. And, and feeling like no one else can do it as good as them and lacking skills of working in teams and delegating. And also power hoarding. So power hoarding, as we know, there are only a, you know, the percent of rich people versus people who are not rich. And most people in the world are not rich, right? Just because you make 100 grand that doesn't make you a rich person. I'm talking about people who were millionaires, right? Both show signs of progress is more, so progress is more bigger. So that's keep growing no matter what we just want to keep going and getting bigger. And that's with with diet culture, that's, you know, even if you get thin, you're still not thin enough. Even if you are thin enough, then you're gonna get old so you're aging so that's not good enough. You know, the amount of times that people have lost weight and they still don't feel enough and so it's like more and more or with hostile culture, more money or the time one right away with anti fat culture is the right way to have a body is to have a thin body. And the right way to get a thin body is to diet and exercise. One right way in hustle culture is the way that the influential will teach you to become rich, wanting to do things a little bit more ethically, no, either or thinking. So that's that black and white binary thinking, objectivity. So, objectivity means that the belief that there is such a thing as being objective or neutral and the belief that emotions are inherently destructive or rational and should not play a role in decision making, and so that this is the objectivity like the belief that privilege doesn't have any bearing on success. And people choose to be poor or choose to be fat and, and those who are not successful are complainers or or losers or whatever. Quantity over quality that's the lose weight, no matter what become rich no matter what. And paternalism, paternalism being decision making is clear to those with power and unclear to those without it. Those who have power think that they are capable of making decisions for and in the interests of those without power. Those with power often don't think it is important or necessary to understand the viewpoint or experience of those whom, for whom they are making decisions. Those without power, understand that they do not have it and understand who does those without power do not really know how decisions get made and who makes what decisions. And yet they are completely familiar with the impact of those decisions on them. So that's an example from the workplace team who wrote that. And so with anti fats, culture, we have oh, word experts just trying to say fatties from themselves. They know what fat people need to do to get thin. And we'll ignore fat people's experiences, because they're not interesting or relevant, because they're just filled with excuses as to why they're fat and aren't successful to losing weight. Health care providers barring fat people from care because fat people slash won't, won't slash can't take their non evidence based advice of weight loss. And those who who choose to engage in dieting, or who are already thin are those who are superior, who feel superior to those who don't, or those who are fat. And with hustle culture paternalism looks like leaders in hustle culture, knowing that the majority of people taking their advice and giving them money won't succeed. And they will obscure the fact that fact from that audience, those who engage in hustle culture feel superior to those who work a nine to five or other job that they deem inferior. So I spent a long time actually going through each each facet of white supremacy culture. And every one apart from a couple anti fat culture and also cultural fit into the only ones that they didn't really fit into was worship of the written word. And I'm the only one so I'm the only one is connected to individualism, the belief that if something is going to get it done, I have to do it, I literally have no ability to delegate work to to others. So I mean, it probably fits in some way, but I wasn't able to see how it was, as I both are committed to white supremacy. Next, another characteristic is Moros moral superiority. So with anti fat culture, those who choose to be fat are lazy and intelligent, morally deficient. And our burden on society with hustle culture, those who choose to be poor or lazy, unintelligent, morally deficient and the burden on society. So the idea that there is a clear choice that people are making, and that choice causes a burden to others, and people who make the choice to be good, or morally superior. I don't know about you, but there's so many times that I have had a thinner body and I felt so morally superior to two people who had bigger bodies, like I had my shit together and they didn't. And it was temporary, right? And then I felt like a bag of shit. Okay, the next characteristic is those who raise issues are the failures. So, in anti fat culture, if you question the logistical legitimacy of anti fatness and the pursuit of Have thinness is because you're a failed thin person who is bitter, angry and jealous, and hustle culture. If you question the legitimate legitimacy of hustle culture, and the pursuit of excessive wealth, it's because you failed at hustle culture, and you are a loser, you do not have that capital, that literal capital and social capital to make critiques, according to this characteristic, and we see that too, in the fat liberation community. Think about the people who are seen as the those with authority that the outside world listen to the most. Is it the failed fat people who are complaining about being fat and being treated badly? And by the way, I'm not saying that, like, that's what I believe. But that's what how society might view fat people? Or is it with the angelic thin savior? Who was who was a researcher who was saying, Hey, don't be mean to the fatties because they have that privilege. Okay, well listen to you, because you're a successful thin person, you have more clout than a failed fat person. And same with hustle culture. If you weren't, if you're not rich, you you've got no opinion, we don't care. Because you're just complaining. You cannot critique the systems of oppression, which is how systems of oppression continue to, to thrive? Is that because everyone is saying, Yeah, we don't, we are not giving power or legitimacy to those who are not buying into those systems of oppression, to dismantle them. Okay, so next, it's your fault, you failed. So that's a characteristic, it's your fault, you failed. So in anti fat culture, if you tried to lose weight and failed, it's because you did it wrong. You didn't work hard enough. And you are lying to yourself about the effort that you put in with hustle culture, if you tried to hustle your way to financial freedom, and failed is because you did it wrong. You didn't work hard enough. And you are lying to yourself about the effort you put in. Next characteristic is it's a mindset issue. We spoke about this earlier. Anyone can be thin if they believe in themselves enough. Fat people are fat as they have issues with their mindset and can't control their oral appetite. Hustle culture, mindset issue, I gave you that example before about how I was taught I have a mindset so easily. That's why I'm not successful. Anyone can be rich, if they really want it. You're self sabotaging and have a bad mindset if

Speaker 1 53:04

you are not a millionaire yet. Those who are successful are able to challenge mindset issues, unlike you. And finally, the last characteristic that I saw was societal value and self esteem from success. So if you are thin, and stay thin, then you are a worthy person you worked hard to get there. And that shows the type of person you are a valuable member of society not like fat people who are such a great burden on healthcare systems. And in hustle culture is a culture is is you pulled yourself up from your boot from up from your bootstraps. You worked hard and didn't rest until you became a true success. You're rich. You are the type of person we like hard working and contributing to society to society. Not like poor people asking for earn and handouts. And notice how a lot of these are also to tied in with classism and health ism and ableism and capitalism. Yeah, I bet you I could like pick out the the characteristics of capitalism and I bet you it will align with anti fat culture as well, which is you know, hustle culture is basically capitalism, many facets of capitalism. And by the way, I don't want you feel I want you to I don't want you to feel bad if you engage in hustle culture, anti fat culture, have your own business or trying to become rich desire to become thin, then none of that makes you a bad person. Right? Even if you are the mark of hustle and you're just like you really enter hustle and that's just like a big part of who you are and if that works for you, if that feels good, you Do you Right? Like, if that feels good, and you feel like okay, I, you know, I'm not harming people and trying to be more secure financially is not a bad thing. What I'm critiquing here are the messages that we are told that how we should get there. And the message is being, abandon yourself, abandon yourself and your values. Kill yourself to get there, where I think that everyone should have, I think there should be universal basic income, I don't think anyone should have to hustle. I think everyone should have all of the things that they want or need, right? That they're not having to work a side job, or, or, you know, stay up working until 12 and get up at 5am, or whatever, I just don't think any of that is conducive to happy people. You know? And so basically, when, if something feels good for you, then you know, and the boss or you you, do you if it feels, you know, I don't want to poopoo on people's dreams. And I guess, you know, I guess, you know, anti fat liberation does poopoo on dreams, because we show people the evidence that there is no way to really become thin. And so that's really kind of sad for a lot of people and it takes people time to, to come to that, that realization. I think, for me, it took time for me to come to the realization of, I can't hustle my way into becoming a millionaire. You know, I cannot hard work my way into becoming rich. That's hard to think about right? Especially if you've committed a lot of time and energy to try and to do that. And now where I'm at now is like hey, guys, you know, I'd like to just unlike to have a normal life. You know, like I would like to go on vacation and I didn't I didn't want to stretch to only my own home because that seems like in Vancouver that you have to be like a zillionaire to have your own home man or maybe have my own home and and go and be able to visit my family if I want to in Ireland and not worry about it and have time off and and maybe have a nice car you know, that's a tough thing that I'm I'm looking to get to, but I will not sacrifice myself to get to those those goals. Buying a new sofa that's

Unknown Speaker 57:39

what I want. I would like a new sofa. I got a cipher off Craigslist on maybe like six years ago. It's time I think it's time to donate it to someone. Anyway, so

Speaker 1 57:56

anyway, not saying that I don't have Don't Don't worry about me. Okay. I don't want anyone to think in all Vinnie. Vinnie doesn't have money like I, I have money, I have money, okay. And I feel like I'm successful here. That's the thing is I do feel like I'm, I feel like I am accomplished. And I feel like I've done a lot of of cool things, and I'm proud of myself. Yeah. And also I forgive myself for engaging in hustle culture, and not knowing better

Unknown Speaker 58:29

because I know better now. Anyway, I'm gonna stop rambling. I'm always just thinking about you know, what, how many times

Speaker 1 58:39

I think sometimes on the podcast I'm like, oh, Vinnie, everyone thinks you're a bad person. Oh, you know all those things that you shared? I guess it's vulnerability hangover, right? Those things that you share that just made you look like a right decade and people think that you think that you're superior to them because they do some hustle stuff and they win or they're on a diet one time and and they think that you think that they're a piece of shit and that you're better all these things in my head. I just thought I'd share that with you because you will probably not though thinking those things and even if you are you know, I can't change your mind. I guess I'm trying to change your mind right now but I just find it interesting how I don't know you but I have this need for you to like me. I feel so like funny saying that like vulnerable saying that? I mean, I think that's everyone's experience right is wanting to be liked. Yeah, I guess sometimes I feel like that I'm tricking people into liking me because if they knew the real me then they'd be like, Oh, fuck that Vinnie. They're a decade. Think that's actually true, right. You know, maybe sometimes I'm a dickhead. But I think most of the time I'm just an average person. So now I'm gonna stop talking And I guess I'll see you in the next episode. I hope you stay fierce, Fatty, and I will see you in a while. Alligator I go bye